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Posted: 6/24/2003 4:25:26 AM EDT
[url]http://www.heraldnews.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=8543816&BRD=1710&PAG=461&dept_id=99784&rfi=6[/url] Fired cop speaks out FALL RIVER (AP) - 06/23/2003 - A police officer who was fired for violating an obscure state law banning smoking among public safety workers plans to fight his dismissal and says he’s upset about how the firing came about. Wayne Jeffrey, a seven-year veteran, was fired May 29 after an internal investigation, prompted by an unsigned letter that claimed he smoked tobacco at a party. A 1988 state law states that police officers and firefighters are subject to immediate termination if they are found to be using tobacco products either on or off duty. Statewide, only two other officers have been fired since the law went into effect, but Jeffrey’s case was the first based on an anonymous tip. "I don’t think when they drafted this law they intended it to be used in this manner," Jeffrey, 42, told the Boston Herald. "The thing I’m concerned about is, I could lose my job over an anonymous letter." "If you’re charged with a crime, you get to face your accuser. I never got to face my accuser," he said. "There’s too many people out there that could fall into the same trap. It’s not fair." Former Springfield firefighter John Marrero was fired last year after he was arrested for driving erratically and was found smoking, according to the Herald. Former Plymouth police officer Lynne M. Rossborough was fired in 1993 after being caught smoking in her cruiser. She appealed, but the state Supreme Judicial Court upheld her firing in 1997. Jeffrey also told the Herald that bosses could use the law’s loose standards to rid the ranks of rabble-rousers or anyone else they see fit. "Any chief would be able to use it for selective firing at their own will," he said. "It’s a great law to have behind them. If they didn’t care for (someone), they can find out if they’re smokers and fire them that way." The married father of a 13-year-old daughter, Jeffrey says his record is unblemished and that he was awarded a citation from the city for his handling of a domestic violence call three years ago. He is now working in heating and ventilation. The case raises the issue of whether smokers should be afforded the same rights as alcoholics or drug addicts, who are offered rehabilitation. The Massachusetts Police Association is currently lobbying for such a bill. Jeffrey plans to appeal for arbitration or a civil service hearing. The Legislature passed the law to accompany legislation that enables public safety officials to receive special disability benefits easier than the average worker. Without the law, proponents argue, doctors are unable to determine if a heart or lung illness is work-related. Under the law, all new public safety hires must sign a contract, as Jeffrey did, pledging not to smoke tobacco products. Police Chief John M. Souza has said there was no option other than firing Jeffrey once it was discovered he was smoking. "The statute as written provides us no room for discretion." State Rep. Robert Correia, D-Fall River, is planning to file legislation to give officers a second chance. Those caught smoking would have one chance to quit by joining a cessation group at their own cost, according to Correia’s bill. [):)]
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 4:36:50 AM EDT
That is complete BS..... it reminds me of a friend of mine that is in prison for conspiracy.....a couple of people involved in the drug bust said he was involved with the operation eventhough he wasn't there and the FEDs had no physical proof....8 years latter he will be liberated 1/04... I hope the cop wins..... -HS
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 4:45:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/24/2003 4:46:52 AM EDT by bogz]
It does sound like a ridiculous rule, especially off duty... That being said:
Under the law, all new public safety hires must sign a contract, as Jeffrey did, pledging not to smoke tobacco products.
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He knew the rules, and signed a contract stating that he would abide by them. EDITED FOR SPELLING
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 5:00:31 AM EDT
bogz, he was terminated over an anonymous letter. signing a contract and knowing the rules has nothing to do with it. It is against the law to rape babies, just because someone sends in an anonymous letter to the cops saying that you rape babies, doesn't mean you do. An anonymous letter is not proof! -HS
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 5:00:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By bogz: It does sound like a ridiculous rule, especially off duty... That being said:
Under the law, all new public safety hires must sign a contract, as Jeffrey did, pledging not to smoke tobacco products.
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He knew the rules, and signed a contract stating that he would abide by them. EDITED FOR SPELLING
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Ditto... absolutely rediculous. But.... this fool signed the contract....
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 5:01:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By bogz: It does sound like a ridiculous rule, especially off duty... That being said:
Under the law, all new public safety hires must sign a contract, as Jeffrey did, pledging not to smoke tobacco products.
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He knew the rules, and signed a contract stating that he would abide by them. EDITED FOR SPELLING
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What a dumbass. He signed a contract, knows the laws/rules, chose to ignore them, and now he's crying? I hope he loses. It's not about the stupidity of the rule, it's about the stupidity of the man. And, before this gets out of hand, this is not me being a "cop basher", but in fact is me being a smoker-basher and an idiot-basher. Regardless of the fact that a he was a cop, he's still a smoker and an idiot (oh, wait, that's redundant).
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 5:10:45 AM EDT
Statewide, only two other officers have been fired since the law went into effect, but Jeffrey’s case was the first based on an anonymous tip. "I don’t think when they drafted this law they intended it to be used in this manner," Jeffrey, 42, told the Boston Herald. "The thing I’m concerned about is, I could lose my job over an anonymous letter." "If you’re charged with a crime, you get to face your accuser. I never got to face my accuser," he said. "There’s too many people out there that could fall into the same trap. It’s not fair." ANONYMOUS TIP!!!!!!!!!!! an anonymous tip COULD be a fucking LIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -HS
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 5:17:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HillBillySasquatch: ANONYMOUS TIP!!!!!!!!!!! an anonymous tip COULD be a fucking LIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -HS
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Except that he admitted to being a smoker.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 5:22:14 AM EDT
Were you hoping it would piss us off? I find it Fing assinine and ludicrous beyond belief that an employer would require this type of BS but the guy knowingly signed a contract. Him being a LEO is peripheral to the issue at best.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 5:39:16 AM EDT
Duplicate topic. [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=192594[/url] Longer, earlier thread here.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 5:54:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/24/2003 10:44:20 AM EDT by redleg1one]
Originally Posted By FiveO: Were you hoping it would piss us off? I find it Fing assinine and ludicrous beyond belief that an employer would require this type of BS but the guy knowingly signed a contract. Him being a LEO is peripheral to the issue at best.
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Yes. This is not a personal attack, but you see, the ridicules law that you inforce can be the same rediculous law that bites you in the ass. BTW, I smoke cigars. And no, I'm not saying that all laws are rediculous.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 7:27:49 AM EDT
{In my usual abrasiveness) I do not agree with the no smoking rule BUT, If the rule was in place (which it was) when he was hired then he violated dept. rules and policy, he broke those rules with impunity and he broke those rules on a daily basis I'm sure. What kind of roll model is that for America's youth I ask you, a cop who does not think the rules apply to him. Some of the Leo's here don't seem to like it when they have to follow the same rules as we mere mortals, LOL Good for ya, keeps ya a little bit humble huh? (and God knows you could use a little bit more humble)
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 8:09:11 AM EDT
First tobacco and then donuts....when will it end...ohhh the horror...[shock] I'm really starting to hate the public...it's getting to the point either they are fuc_in faggots and lezbian feminazis or they are spinless pussy liberal do-gooders...
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 8:11:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/24/2003 8:12:42 AM EDT by HKocher]
Originally Posted By norman74: ...me being a smoker-basher and an idiot-basher. Regardless of the fact that a he was a cop, he's still a smoker and an idiot (oh, wait, that's redundant).
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This kind of attitude pisses me off as much as the anti-gunners' attitudes. So you don't agree with what someone does in their own personal life, thus they are an idiot???
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 8:27:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HKocher:
Originally Posted By norman74: ...me being a smoker-basher and an idiot-basher. Regardless of the fact that a he was a cop, he's still a smoker and an idiot (oh, wait, that's redundant).
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This kind of attitude pisses me off as much as the anti-gunners' attitudes. So you don't agree with what someone does in their own personal life, thus they are an idiot???
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Yes, exactly. If you're a smoker, you're an idiot. If you're a heroin user, you're an idiot. If you sit around smashing yourself in the hand with a hammer on a daily basis, you're an idiot. Do I care that you do it? No. But don't overburden the medical system and cause my insurance costs to go up simply because you have no self control. Smokers should pay triple premiums on their healthcare. Do I think it should be legislated? No. Not even the heroin. I couldn't give one shit or less if you want to sit home and kill yourself. I would, however, prefer that you do it more quickly so that you won't have time to reproduce and pass your stupidity on to another generation of burdens on society.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 8:49:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HillBillySasquatch: bogz, he was terminated over an anonymous letter. signing a contract and knowing the rules has nothing to do with it. It is against the law to rape babies, [red]just because someone sends in an anonymous letter to the cops saying that you rape babies, doesn't mean you do.[/red] An anonymous letter is not proof! -HS
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Thats never stopped cops from raiding a house and murdering the occupants!!
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 8:52:09 AM EDT
If you're a smoker, you're an idiot.
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And if you're an arrogant asshole, you're an idiot.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 9:23:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By norman74: rediculous
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How about if you can't spell "ridiculous" you're an idiot? But that's a cheap shot, and I'm not a spelling nazi. How about this? Have you ever had unprotected sex with someone whose sexual history you were not 100% sure of? Do you drink alcoholic beverages? Do you ride a motorcycle? Do you drive at excessive speeds? Do you often eat fatty foods? Do you fail to get the required amount of exercise? Do you indulge in 'dangerous' sports/recreation including hunting, mountain climbing, skiing, scuba, cliff diving, lion taming, bear baiting, etc... If so, by your definition, YOU are an idiot. Any of those activities can be viewed as potentially shortening one's lifespan. And of course some of these activities are worse than others. Actually you incorrectly assumed that I am a smoker. Not exactly correct. I admit that I used to smoke, but one day, I just quit. So as far as lacking self-control, obviously I don't. And on a side note, I think the world would be a better place without alcohol, smoking, caffeine and other addictive substances, but it would also be a lot less enjoyable for some...
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 9:30:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Zardoz:
If you're a smoker, you're an idiot.
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And if you're an arrogant asshole, you're an idiot.
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Are you a smoker? If so, you are by my definition an idiot. The opinions of people I consider idiots are of little consequence to me. The fact that you consider me an idiot, and are still concerned with my opinion of you, reinforces my belief that you are an idiot.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 9:36:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HKocher: How about this? Have you ever had unprotected sex with someone whose sexual history you were not 100% sure of?
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Nope
Do you drink alcoholic beverages?
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Yep. This is bad because....?
Do you ride a motorcycle?
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In fact I do. But I also have an entirely seperate insurance policy for this. I and other insured motorcyclists are paying for our own burden on society. When I see people getting smoker's insurance, you can bring this up again.
Do you drive at excessive speeds?
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I live in South Florida. What do you consider excessive?
Do you often eat fatty foods?
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Yep. I also have a metabolism that virtually prevents me from gaining weight, even though I try. I also have had blood work once a year for the past 5 years for unrelated reasons, and each time they have pronounced me healthier than the average person.
Do you fail to get the required amount of exercise?
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I don't know required by who, but I work out every night after work.
Do you indulge in 'dangerous' sports/recreation including hunting, mountain climbing, skiing, scuba, cliff diving, lion taming, bear baiting, etc...
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Not really.
If so, by your definition, YOU are an idiot.
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so then by my answers above, I guess I'm in fact NOT an idiot. Thanks, that's really important to me that you think I'm not an idiot [rolleyes]
Actually you incorrectly assumed that I am a smoker. Not exactly correct. I admit that I used to smoke, but one day, I just quit. So as far as lacking self-control, obviously I don't.
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Actually, I didn't. When I said "you" I meant only those that the previous statement applied to. IF you're a smokeer THEN you're an idiot. From there on "you" referred only to idiots.
And on a side note, I think the world would be a better place without alcohol, smoking, caffeine and other addictive substances, but it would also be a lot less enjoyable for some...
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So should those things be legislated away?
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 9:54:18 AM EDT
OHHHHH! YOU'RE GONNA DIE!!!! So since you engage in some 'high-risk' activities (Drinking, motorcycling, fatty foods, etc.) perhaps YOU are the one who will live the shorter lifespan, thus YOU might be the idiot. Basically that's what you're saying about smokers. I'm taking this from my interpretation of your posts. You equate smoking to a shorter lifespan, and since you believe that knowingly engaging in something that could shorten your lifespan is idiotic, thus smoker=idiot, right??? What am I missing in your message? BTW, smokers do pay premiums for being smokers, thus the questioning by insurance agents/doctors "are you a smoker?" And alcohol can lead to damage to the liver, pancreas, heart, and central nervous system (i.e. your noggin). So how is drinking 'smart?' You are falling hook, line and sinker for what you watch on TV. NO, not everyone who takes a puff of a cigarette will drop dead from it after a long and expensive fight with lung cancer or heart disease. Stop listening so intently to those stupid "TRUTH" ads. Similarly, not everyone who owns a gun, will shoot themselves with it, or have it used against them by a 'loved' one or intruder. And no, not everyone who rides a motorcycle will end up as road kill. And to answer you last question: no, I don't believe in alcohol or nicotine being regulated by the gov't.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 10:42:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/24/2003 10:43:53 AM EDT by norman74]
Originally Posted By HKocher: OHHHHH! YOU'RE GONNA DIE!!!! So since you engage in some 'high-risk' activities (Drinking, motorcycling, fatty foods, etc.) perhaps YOU are the one who will live the shorter lifespan, thus YOU might be the idiot. Basically that's what you're saying about smokers. I'm taking this from my interpretation of your posts. You equate smoking to a shorter lifespan, and since you believe that knowingly engaging in something that could shorten your lifespan is idiotic, thus smoker=idiot, right??? What am I missing in your message?
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Whether I'm an idiot or not doesn't clear smokers from being idiots. The fact that they continue to smoke and: 1) burden society with their butts thrown from windows, nasty smell, increased healthcare costs etc. 2) smoking is weakness. weakness is bad.
BTW, smokers do pay premiums for being smokers, thus the questioning by insurance agents/doctors "are you a smoker?"
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No, they don't. Perhaps if they pay out of pocket, but in my company they pay 75% of your insurance premium. If we could get rid of all the smokers, perhaps we could reduce the overall cost of the premium, and the company could afford to pay the entire premium. Therefore, weak/stupid people are costing me money.
And alcohol can lead to damage to the liver, pancreas, heart, and central nervous system (i.e. your noggin). So how is drinking 'smart?'
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You're talking about excessive drinking. For every study you quote that says alcohol is bad, I'll find ya one that says alcohol is good for you.
You are falling hook, line and sinker for what you watch on TV. NO, not everyone who takes a puff of a cigarette will drop dead from it after a long and expensive fight with lung cancer or heart disease. Stop listening so intently to those stupid "TRUTH" ads.
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Didn't you just get done saying that alcohol is bad? Where'd you get that info? TV? You're sounding like a hypocrite now. Believe TV when it suits you, but ignore it when it doesn't? More weakness. I base my opinions on the fact that every I've ever known to smoke has eventually died from smoking related illness. Both my grandfathers died from smoking related illness years after quitting. They were both is otherwise good health, but once the throat cancer hit my mom's dad, he was done in 6 months. People I know that smoke are not only sick more often than those that don't, but have a harder time overcoming regular illnesses like flu and colds than non-smokers. Smoking kills, and is a health hazard, if you believe otherwise... well you know what you are. There's really two seperate issues here. The first is that smokers are idiots. Whether or not activities in my own life make me an idiot as well, if you smoke, in this day and age, you're fucking retarded. period. I see that you quit, congratulations. Why'd you quit? Certainly not because it's good for you to smoke right? The other issue is the fact that smokers are a financial and social burden on the rest of society. Right up there with welfare moms in my book.
And to answer you last question: no, I don't believe in alcohol or nicotine being regulated by the gov't.
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At least we agree on something.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 10:45:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By norman74: rediculous
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Thanks norman! Made the edits.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 10:59:28 AM EDT
Norman....do you ever ride without a helment? -HS
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 11:00:00 AM EDT
You have got to be kidding me. When a governemt employee cant do something that is legal on his own time is when the govt is over the line. Someone needs to put them in their place. Contract or not this is the most rediculous thing I have heard in some time.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 11:02:41 AM EDT
First he signed a contract that said I will not smoke. Then he said " I smoke " Then he cried WAAA WAAAA WAAA all the way home HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA [wave] BYE BYE NO disrect to LEO with the " all the way home" thing. Seems like he wasnt one of the smart one anyways
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 11:17:19 AM EDT
What does leo status have to do with the price of tea in China? The thread should be "employee fired for smoking". Is the rule right or wrong? That's one thread and one set of opinions. Was the firing justified? That's another thread and another set of opinions. Does leo status have anything whatsoever to do with either question? Absolutely not. This employee knowingly violated an employment regulation according to what I've read. What if the regs required being armed 24/7 and the employee was away from home and not armed? I was involved in an incident involving that rule here. That absolutely violates the particular department's policy, which the employee signed off as knowing and agreeing to abide by. As long as this guy knew, and according to all accounts he did, the firing is legitimate and he has no grounds to complain or cause any trouble. He, and everyone who is crying for/with him, needs to get over it and move on and next time live by the rules.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 11:22:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By killingmachine123: You have got to be kidding me. When a governemt employee cant do something that is legal on his own time is when the govt is over the line. Someone needs to put them in their place. Contract or not this is the most rediculous thing I have heard in some time.
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It turns out that this part of the contract was negotiated by the union in exchange for the city paying 100% of the health insurance premium. 100%!!! So, while I generally agree that more often than not, government is too meddlesome, this case is not that.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 11:36:34 AM EDT
I never said that smoking was 'smart.' I just don't think any other 'stupid' activities are any healthier. Thus a drinker, motorcycle rider, smoker, etc. are in the same book to me. They aren't stupid, they just choose a lifestyle that may lead to a quicker demise. More power to them if they are enjoying their lives in the process, as long as they don't hurt anyone else. BTW, I'm not picking on motorcyclists, that was just one example of a hobby that some view as 'dangerous'. And I'm not basing any of my theories on flashy TV ads, just some good ol' fashioned reading and a degree in Biology. Here's a prediction. Fatty foods and junk foods will be the next big target for ads/lawsuits/etc... (It's already started). Five years from now, you'll post on AR15.com saying "anyone who still eats at McDonalds is an idiot, they raise my insurance premiums, I hope they die quickly so they don't reproduce." Okay, maybe that one wasn't fair, but you're the one with the 'holier than thou' syndrome...
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 11:45:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HKocher: Okay, maybe that one wasn't fair, but you're the one with the 'holier than thou' syndrome...
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People complain when they first deal with me on a professional basis that I hold them to too high of a standard. Eventually 50% of these people admit that I hold myself to an even higher standard. The other 50% can't hack it and aren't around long enough to figure it out. I don't smoke. I did when I was a kid (and stupid), since I now don't smoke I can, and will, pass judgement on those that choose to. There are very few things in life that you can so obviously spot that so clearly declare "IDIOT" as loudly as smoking does.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 11:52:03 AM EDT
As much as this pains me to admit, I have to agree with JRZY on this one. I won't bite on his attempt to bait LEO's about being "humble." The vast majority of us are. You would have better served your point by saying "employee fired," and not tried to drag your dislike for LEO's into it. But I digress. If his union,or he himself agreed to the policy, he doesn't have a leg to stand on. This is a good thread, let's not drag his profession into it, it is a non issue....
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 12:01:13 PM EDT
If Texas can't outlaw fags from BFing each other, why can this state outlaw cops from smoking? Isn't BFing more hazardous to your health than smoking???
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 1:06:43 PM EDT
How come every fricken thread lately HAS to include a reference to homosexuality??? I'm beginning to think that AR15.com is a refuge for closest homos...
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 3:10:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HKocher: How come every fricken thread lately HAS to include a reference to homosexuality??? I'm beginning to think that AR15.com is a refuge for closest homos...
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I am quite sure you mean closet. AR15.Com is not a bunch of the closest homo`s. BTW, were you not just correcting someone on spelling and referring to them as an idiot? hmm Whats wrong with expressing one`s opinion on fags? Does it bother you? Are you of that type?
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 5:13:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 1776:
Originally Posted By HKocher: How come every fricken thread lately HAS to include a reference to homosexuality??? I'm beginning to think that AR15.com is a refuge for closest homos...
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I am quite sure you mean closet. AR15.Com is not a bunch of the closest homo`s. BTW, were you not just correcting someone on spelling and referring to them as an idiot? hmm Whats wrong with expressing one`s opinion on fags? Does it bother you? Are you of that type?
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Yeah, you busted me! I'm a homo and an idiot! [sarcasm] I swear, two people can't have an argument without the peanut gallery jumping in with mindless comments. I never meant to call Norman an idiot, I was just giving an example of how silly it is to call someone an idiot based on one bit of information (smoking, misspelling, etc...).
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 5:42:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HKocher: I'm beginning to think that AR15.com is a refuge for closest homos...
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Whatever gave you that idea sweetums [;)]
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 7:21:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Originally Posted By HKocher: I'm beginning to think that AR15.com is a refuge for closest homos...
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Whatever gave you that idea sweetums [;)]
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Aw shucks... I told you not to call me that in public jrzy! [;)]
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 8:02:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/24/2003 8:28:27 PM EDT by Zardoz]
Originally Posted By norman74:
Originally Posted By Zardoz:
If you're a smoker, you're an idiot.
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And if you're an arrogant asshole, you're an idiot.
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Are you a smoker? If so, you are by my definition an idiot. The opinions of people I consider idiots are of little consequence to me. The fact that you consider me an idiot, and are still concerned with my opinion of you, reinforces my belief that you are an idiot.
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Yes, I'm a smoker; and you think I'm an idiot for it. That's fine by me, I give about 1/3 of a fuck what you think. As far as judging me? Trust me; you are NOT in any kind of position to judge anybody. Where in my post did you get the impression that I was concerned with what an arrogant gimp like you thinks about me? This only reinforces the fact of your arrogance.
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