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Posted: 6/23/2003 4:46:20 PM EDT
I can't believe this is a law in Massachusetts, not sure how common it is in other states. In Mass, if you are a policeman or firefighter, and smoke on or off duty, you get fired. This guy got turned in by an anonymous letter. [url]http://web1.whdh.com/news/articles/local/A15347/[/url]
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 4:48:04 PM EDT
MA Public servants have to sign a contract saying they wont use tobacco products. Not being able to face your accuser is bullshit. The guy will get his job back.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 5:08:18 PM EDT
I doubt he'll get his job back- the law is clear-cut. MA is very antismoking (as well as anti-gun). "We know what's best for you" attitude. I also heard on the radio, he admitted he did smoke. Bad move. I don't know which is dumber- the law- or him.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 5:14:14 PM EDT
Many employers have negotiated lower medical isurance cost, and workers compensation insureance cost by going to a a 100% non smoking work force. If you sign a contract saying you wont do something, then do it anyway, your employer has every right to fire you. Law enforcement is one of the few occupations where your off duty conduct can be used to dicipline or fire you, military service being one of the few others. but I dont have a problem with that in this case.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 6:09:47 PM EDT
That's just AFU!! So what if your employer has a no firearms/alcohol/"fast"vehicle at work or home policy? "Owned by the State" has a whole new meaning...
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 6:23:55 PM EDT
What's Massachusett's policy on gerbils? [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 6:31:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DPeacher: So what if your employer has a no firearms/alcohol/"fast"vehicle at work or home policy?
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Yep. No sky diving No water skiing No GUNS No "attack dogs" No rodeo sex No pools No using ladders where would it stop?
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 6:36:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/23/2003 6:40:52 PM EDT by AR15fan]
Originally Posted By DPeacher: So what if your employer has a no firearms/alcohol/"fast"vehicle at work or home policy?
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Then dont sign the contract and seek employment elsewhere. Nobody forced this officer to sign a pre-hiring contract promising to not smoke. Yes it's kinda Orwellian, but cops, like the military, are practically owned by their employers. Cops are regularly diciplined or fired for off duty conduct that in other occupations would be a good "what did you do this weekend story."
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 6:51:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Originally Posted By DPeacher: So what if your employer has a no firearms/alcohol/"fast"vehicle at work or home policy?
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Then dont sign the contract and seek employment elsewhere. Nobody forced this officer to sign a pre-hiring contract promising to not smoke. Yes it's kinda Orwellian, but cops, like the military, are practically owned by their employers. Cops are regularly diciplined or fired for off duty conduct that in other occupations would be a good "what did you do this weekend story."
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Big difference between having a smoke and doing something that makes a good "what did you do this weekend" story. "Hey Bill, what did you do this weekend?" "Aw Steve man! Listen to this. I smoked a cigarette!" "Whoa Bill!! You're a WILDMAN bro!"
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 6:57:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/23/2003 6:58:44 PM EDT by fight4yourrights]
Originally Posted By AR15fan: Then dont sign the contract and seek employment elsewhere. Nobody forced this officer to sign a pre-hiring contract promising to not smoke.
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Yes, but we all know where this leads. Once the .gov agencies can effectively BAN a legal activity, and save on insurance to boot, the insurance companies will crank the rates for any company not going along with this new BAN. Where does it end? What happens when there aren't any jobs out there willing to hire you if you have "dangerous" guns in your house? Start your own business? And if you can't find insurance? I could see enacting a fitness test that would basically force you not to smoke, else you couldn't pass the breathing test. But this approach is wrong. Does said officer sign away his wife's right to smoke when he takes this job? Did she get a say?
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 7:02:09 PM EDT
Fired for smoking, but cops shoot dogs, widely agreed as bad shoots, and they have immunity??? Jesus fucking christ this world is fucked up!!! [shock] [peep]
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 7:24:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ED_P: I can't believe this is a law in Massachusetts, not sure how common it is in other states. In Mass, if you are a policeman or firefighter, and smoke on or off duty, you get fired. This guy got turned in by an [red]anonymous letter[/red]. [url]http://web1.whdh.com/news/articles/local/A15347/[/url]
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Truly, "The Sons of Liberty", are DEAD!! Ed, you live there, and this is a surprise?? The State of my birth has become the most Communist in the NATION!! My State, where some of the Greatest thinkers, (and fighters), of the Revolution for LIBERTY, came from!! The State where every generation of MY branch of the ADAMS family has been buried from 1630 until 1973, (My Father)!!! [:D] [size=2]NEVER AGAIN!! will Massachusetts soil, cover the bones from this branch, of the Adams family !![/size=2] [:(!]
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 7:38:37 PM EDT
kennedy's have been in power too long
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 7:39:50 PM EDT
I wonder how Teddy Kennedy will fare if this trend keeps up?
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 8:07:31 PM EDT
I'll chime in at the risk of alienating the other coppers...I have a little insight into these matters as I work Internal Affairs. These anti-tobacco rules suck, but as stated above, he knowingly signed the contract and did not adhere to it. Then, when caught violating the rules, he wants to fight it. Hmm, mixed message, me thinks. As to the "facing your accuser" aspect, he nullified it by public admissions of the offense and possibly during the investigation. Maybe this case will clue some people in as far as the attitude of cops that they are above "regular citizens" with respect to their duties and responsibilities 24/7. Many jurisdictions REQUIRE police action be taken whether on or off duty. My agency fires or disciplines more officers for their off-duty conduct. It truly is a 24/7, lifetime commitment.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 8:24:31 PM EDT
We did this this topic a week ago.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 8:28:58 PM EDT
Three Words: [b]Breach of contract[/b] No matter how wrong it is. Personally, I'd rather be unemployed, live in a cardboard box, and eat rat meat before I'd accept a job that regulates what lawful activities I can engage in while off the clock.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 8:30:56 PM EDT
This is garbage. And having a contract doesn't justify what the state has done. Wrong is wrong and tyranny is tyranny.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 11:36:34 PM EDT
Today they're taking cop's smokes away. Tomorrow they'll take their guns, sticks, cars and anything else they might hurt themselves with. Damn. Things are looking up! [snoopy] cynic
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 12:02:56 AM EDT
The Public Service employee Contract has a very lucrative disability and health provision if the employee can show a work relationship. The trade off as negotiated by the unions was that the covered employees would agree not to smake so lung problems were going to be assumed to be work related. When your union negotiates a contract and you sign up for it you can't complain when you break it and get canned. Anybody that doesn't understand basic employment law pertaining to contractual provisions may see this as draconian or some other black helicopter scheme. But when an adult signs a contract he normally is held to that contract. If he don't like it, don't sign it. If it still seems wrong, replace your aluminum foil, it's wearing out.
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