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Posted: 6/23/2003 10:13:16 AM EDT
I finally reached the conclusion that NFA firearms are simply too expensive for me to collect. With that in mind I decided to get into the M=1 Garand. My first purchase was thru the CMP. Two service grade HRA"s (to go along with my H&R M16) and a service grade Springfield. I have had these now for a couple of months and have reached some conclusions about the Garand. It is quirky, unreliable, difficult to maintain, expensive to shoot, and hard to reload for. It is hard on brass and the 8 round clips are a pain. My M-16 is more reliable and easier to clean and maintain. Out of the 3 M-1's, one won't feed the second round (despite a trip to a gunsmith), one throws fliers, and the other one shoots OK but fouls the barrel after 8-10 rounds and looses all accuracy. All three guns stretch the brass so much 1 or 2 reloads is all you can get and you must trim every time. The act of putting grease on a gun somehow offends my senses. Give me an M-16. It is a far better rifle!!!
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 10:29:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/23/2003 10:30:02 AM EDT by Rockdoc]
Have to agree with you on NFA. Having shot M-1s for 25 years and having to reload for most of that time because of limited surplus, I have to question your conclusions on Garands being hard on brass. Has the headspace been checked? I reload only military brass (most of it is Den 42 and 43) and can't say the M1 is hard on it.I use cartridge gages when setting up reloading dies and have not had problems like you describe. Barrel fouling? What powder are you using? There are limited types to use with this gas operated rifle. I use IMR 4895 which is available in pull down powder that has been very good. Garands are very reliable so I think you need to check out gunsmiths that specialize in working on them. You don't want to miss out on the greatest U.S. battle rifle made. Give them another try. I'd be happy to share reloading recipes, etc if that would help. By the way, I also like the M-16.[:D]
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 11:18:58 AM EDT
Why isn't this over in the Firearms section WHERE IT BELONGS?
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 11:24:55 AM EDT
Your M1s are obviously defective. I will give you my address, and you can send them to me for proper disposal. Thank you.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 11:42:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BobCole: Why isn't this over in the Firearms section WHERE IT BELONGS?
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[img]www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/hitler.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 11:54:55 AM EDT
Yeah, I have to agree with you. Patton and everyone else was full of it, the Garand is a piece of crap. It's a wonder we won WWII. [rolleyes] [:K]
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 11:58:39 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 12:40:21 PM EDT
I agree with you. The M1 was a superb firearm----for the late 1930's/early 1940's---but that was 60 years ago. Of course, then again, I'm one of those guys who would rather drive an Explorer.....than a Ford Model A.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 12:51:11 PM EDT
Send them to me, I'll even pay shipping. Wouldn't want you to have to deal with those awful rifles.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 1:00:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 3:00:00 PM EDT
I would sell one of your Garands and get a Springfield Armory M1A.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 3:46:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 3:49:20 PM EDT
Tell ya what, you take your M16 and I'll take my M1 or 03A1 out to the middle of a dry lake bed. 1000 yds apart. Winner gets both guns. By the way the sight on the 03A1 or 03 is theoretically calibrated to 2700 yds.. Kinda like the battle between the cruisers and the Graf Spee. Graf Spee fires farther and harder but not near as fast or as many. The cruisers fire a lot more smaller shells a lot faster. They just got to close to their max range and less before the big boy hits them once effectively. The cruisers are faster but not much faster. May take an hour to close to effective range. Wanna try that. Looks like a bunch of guys here would take the old boys. Then again the cruisers survived and HMS Achilles lasted until 1977
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 4:02:42 PM EDT
The HMS Hood found out reeeal quick what it was like to take on the big dog. Unfortunately for its sailors.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 6:35:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/23/2003 6:57:02 PM EDT by Ralph]
I've got two, And in the last year have probably ran about 1200 rounds through them,without one single jam,of any kind, I suspect that your rifle that won't pickup the second round may be short-stroking, and that is often caused by a worn piston on the end of your op-rod, if it's less than .525 O.D. that could be your problem,(gas blowing by)Try swapping a op-rod from one of your other rifles and check for function, also check and see if the gas lock screw is tight,they will loosen up if you shoot alot,(allowing gas to escape) one way to keep it tight is get some teflon tape and put a couple of wraps on the threads of the gas lock screw...Then, I'd go back to that "gunsmith" and get my money back, as clearly, he did'nt fix it... these rifles have to run on grease..Don't grease it and it WILL start acting up,also suggest some IMR 4895 powder, it was designed for the M1, that will take care of your fouling problems..As far as the one that throws fliers.. check the crown of the barrel and look for nicks near the bore,that'll cause filers,(if you find any you'll need to get it recrowned, a minor job for a 'smith) also do the "tilt test" remove the op-rod spring and, with the action out of the stock, tilt the rifle up to about 45 degrees, bolt should slide open on it's own, now tilt it down, bolt should close,if it does'nt the op-rod is binding somewhere along it's travel, now, put action in stock(minus the op-rod spring) and do it again,...again, the bolt should open,if it does'nt the op-rod is binding in the stock somewhere,(alittle wood removal needed)A binding op-rod will cause fliers as well, Go over to www.jouster.com and ask around over there, there are a couple of M1 smiths over there who really know their stuff..ask them....
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 6:55:32 PM EDT
ibfestus, H&R was supposed to have the best fit and finish of all the M1 makers. I have a SA service grade that makes folks drool when they see it. Reloading for the Garand is a breeze if you use componants that replicate M2 Ball specs. That means IMR 4895 with 150gr spitzer bullets and non-benchrest primers. As for your brass stretching you may have headspace problems. At the very worst have your rifle rebarreled. Also you mention flyers. Could be a loose gas cylinder. You can peen the barrel splines or shim it with "soda can" shims. Second round extraction could be a bad extractor, or a rough chamber. Or it may not be in full battery to begin with(oprod spring). Barrel fouling? Maybe you have a pitted bore? In my limited experience with these rifles they are accurate, reliable, easily maintained and I grease my AR's where they need it.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 7:26:16 PM EDT
Well shit! Lets see here. M1 Garand: 8 rnd clip: semi auto. M16: 30 rnd mag: semi/full-auto. Yeah, I'll take a M16 over a M1 Garand too!! I also prefer 18 y.o. pussy over 81 y.o. pussy.....but that's just me. Sgtar15
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 7:36:36 PM EDT
I'll take my M1 over any of my ARs any day! They are good strong rifles chambered for a round our military used when it was serious about killing the ememy, not wounding him. I have read articles and talked to Marines and Rangers who HATE the 5.56 round! I'd bet my life on any of my M1s They may be old, maybe even obsolete, but if I was going to get shot, I'd rather take my chances with a 5.56 than a 30'06! [sniper2] By he way, run screaming from anything made by Springfield Armory in the last 5 years, especially the M1A, I can relate my own nightmare tale to anyone who wants to IM me.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 7:37:10 PM EDT
Strictly speaking it is an "apples to oranges" comparison. The M1 was designed to fight on a different battlefield. I will say that it has to be one of the most graceful and elegant rifle designs I've ever seen. I am simply transfixed with mine. I can't seem to put it down.
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 7:48:44 PM EDT
The act of putting grease on a gun somehow offends my senses.
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I take it you then DON'T use grease? I hate to tell you this, but this could be reason number 1 your rifles are "unreliable".
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 8:03:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Zardoz:
The act of putting grease on a gun somehow offends my senses.
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I take it you then DON'T use grease? I hate to tell you this, but this could be reason number 1 your rifles are "unreliable".
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Ya think?? LOL SGtar15
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 8:39:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By marvl: Yeah, I have to agree with you. Patton and everyone else was full of it, the Garand is a piece of crap. It's a wonder we won WWII. [rolleyes] [:K]
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Not really... We won WWII using semi-auto Garands against bolt-actions (K98 and that odd Jap bolt-gun that started with an A)... Sure, the Germans and Japs started to field semis, but not in the quantity that the US used the Garand...
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 8:52:38 PM EDT
I havent had a single problem with mine, made a head shot at 200 yds (and have the video to prove it)with crappy russian ammo during an FDCC shoot, so I'd say the accuracy is pretty good. Heck DVDtracker even bump fired it at the last BRC. I'd take it over my AR15 any day.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 12:00:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sgtar15: I also prefer 18 y.o. pussy over 81 y.o. pussy.....but that's just me. Sgtar15
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How do you know? You ever have any 18 y.o. pussy? [;D]
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 12:06:25 AM EDT
I'ld be more concerned over the other comparison testing.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 12:26:58 AM EDT
I would not get rid of my Garands for any amount of M-16's/Ar-15's....
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 12:30:55 AM EDT
The first thing I would do if I were you is get a good M1 Garand manual, sit down and read it cover to cover and repeat until you fully understand the rifle and it's mechanics. The M1 is a "beast of iron and wood" and if properly cared for should be one of the most reliable rifles in the world. I have one that looks as if it's been through hell and back several times but it still goes bang everytime and deposits that lead where it's aimed.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 1:36:48 AM EDT
I know this may be a stupid question, but you are using 30-06 ammo and not .308, right?
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 5:15:43 AM EDT
I have a CMP Winchester rach grade M1. It is beat to dead. The throat errosion is 9 and the muzzle is long gone, no crown, no rifling. It is that saddest looking M1 I have ever seen (which is cool!) I took it out to the range expecting to not hit a thing at 100yrds and to have failers. To my surprise, it functioned flawlessly and I got all 50 or 60 rounds in a nine inch group. The M1 is king for reliability. I have seen many failures during competition with AR15s and my old M1 keeps going.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 6:34:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Guntoter: I know this may be a stupid question, but you are using 30-06 ammo and not .308, right?
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[:D] And, God forbid, I hope he's not trying to use .223. [;D]
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 6:50:24 AM EDT
Just for the record. I carried an M-1 back in the early '60's and can detail strip a trigger group blindfolded. I have been reloading for 30 years and know how to set up a pair of dies. When you have 3 guns and they all do it, it is not a gun specific problem. I load for the Garand using new IMR 4895 behind 155 gr. Sierra Palmas and LC match brass. You have to grease and shim and tweak and you go to the range and shoot 50-60 rounds. Whopee! I take my H&R M-16 to the range and shoot 250-300 rounds then change the upper and shoot another 250-300. I get home and brush the bores, wipe out the upper clean the bolt 5-6 minutes max. No body fights in dry lake beds and the best BJ I ever had was from a 60 year old toothless honey in Singapore. No body said the M-1 was worthless but it is a relic from the past and that is just my .02.
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