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Posted: 6/22/2003 3:14:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/22/2003 3:24:13 PM EDT by Merril_B]
I am talking mainly rustic construction, with a few "modern" structural improvements (like a cement peg foundation to support conventional floor joists, modern insulation and drywall...) Just finished up a design for a comfortable groundlevel/700+sf cabin with a small sleeper loft in the rafters. Figured the material costs (assuming the proper logs on site), and am now shopping for a piece of land (in the area I want) where I can start building it. Goal is to complete it before my 27th birthday. Experience with the basic construction isn't a problem. I am just looking for good advice native to log cabins. So, anyone ever done it, or have any places to point me for good info? Thanks MB
Link Posted: 6/22/2003 3:16:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/22/2003 3:17:21 PM EDT
Find the "Foxfire" books. They have all kinds of useful info about that sort of thing.
Link Posted: 6/22/2003 3:17:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/22/2003 3:22:46 PM EDT by Merril_B]
Are you building this on your land in Utah?
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Not enough trees [:(] Prolly selling it this year anyway to finance a small plot in the northeast (MD north- hoping for an acre in Port Deposit or Sunrise for under $15K).
Link Posted: 6/22/2003 3:20:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/22/2003 3:23:22 PM EDT by TitaniumT]
Take a course. [url=http://loghomelinks.com/build.htm]How To Build A Log Cabin[/url] TT
Link Posted: 6/22/2003 3:26:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/22/2003 3:31:34 PM EDT by Merril_B]
Originally Posted By TitaniumT: Take a course. [url=http://loghomelinks.com/build.htm]How To Build A Log Cabin[/url] TT
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Hmmmmm....
[b]Norwegian School of Log Building[/b] - Dedicated to providing quality log building instruction and insight into the unique log construction culture of Norway.If you are interested in learning full scribe log building,this is the web site for you.Founded in 1997 the Norwegian School of Log Building is owned and operated by master log builder George Fuller.Courses are held all year round.Information is available in german english or norwegian.Log building instruction in norwegian english german or french.
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Link Posted: 6/22/2003 3:36:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/22/2003 3:42:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/22/2003 3:47:46 PM EDT
... I've built two. ... One was as co-partner with my dad. In a place called Kachina Village just south of Flagstaff, AZ ... Second near the town of Heber, AZ. I designed this one myself and had Navajo County sign off the drawings (without an architects stamp no less). ... A cabin is a love hate relationship. All your spare time and money goes into the construction, but it's damned rewarding to kick back in front of the fireplace on a snowy night or a base camp for a mountain excursion.
Link Posted: 6/22/2003 4:16:32 PM EDT
Sure thing. My parents still live in the cabin we built as I was growing up. It is roughly 22 years old at this point, and still structurally sound. We fell, limbed, peeled, treated, notched, and chinked these things with very little help from anyone. As an only child, my Dad worked my ass off. We began sawing down the white pines when I was twelve, and finally got moved into it three years later. The best part was that it was paid for when we moved in. Forward ten years..... It's time for me to build mine. I bought some property adjacent to my parents, and began clearing it. My wife and I spent a couple years, with zero help from anyone, preparing our logs for construction. We finally had over 100 logs treated for insects and decay, neatly stacked up off the ground all around the foundation site to dry out. Peeling is the worst part of the entire process. Trust me. Anyway, I take my blueprints to get the building permit, and was turned down. You talk about somebody being ULTRA pissed after breaking my back for the last 2 years! I already had my footers strung out, had installed my own septic system and had it inspected with no problems, and ready to go forward. The problem boiled down to me wanting to use fully round logs as load bearing walls to carry the roof. The guy at the inspection office was a total prick. He told me that I would have to get an engineer to design a load bearing system for the roof. This would basically entail steel columns at all corners with beams running between them. That TOTALLY killed the ability have an authentic log home. Either that, or pay someone to mill them square and have the logs graded and certified. I have years of experience in the construction industry, and am totally confident that I could make this home work. My logs were as dry as they could ever naturally dry out. I was planning on installing threaded rods from the top of the highest log all the way down to the foundation to tie them all together at 4' intervals. (This also gives you the ability to tighten them down if any further shrinkage should occur.) A nice saddle notch with spikes in all the corners would hold this thing together just fine. My Parent's home is testimony to this. But no, that wasn't good enough for our local authorities. I eventually got fed up with feuding with the inspector and put off the idea of building for 3 years. When I finally got ready to stick build, I burned every log I had worked so hard to prepare. That was a sad day. Nevertheless, we moved into our new stick built home last fall and are very pleased with it. I still got to design it the way I wanted and did the majority of the construction, but it isn't the log home that I had dreamed about all those years. There is no way to discuss all the specifics I had read about and learned in preparation to build this 2400 sf log home, but I would be happy to share any details you may be in the dark about. Good luck with the authorities. 700 sf may not be an issue for them. Cope
Link Posted: 6/22/2003 4:26:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/22/2003 4:28:28 PM EDT by Merril_B]
Originally Posted By Cope: Sure thing. My parents still live in the cabin we built as I was growing up. Forward ten years..... My wife and I spent a couple years, with zero help from anyone, preparing our logs for construction. We finally had over 100 logs treated for insects and decay, neatly stacked up off the ground all around the foundation site to dry out. Peeling is the worst part of the entire process. Trust me. Anyway, I take my blueprints to get the building permit, and was turned down. You talk about somebody being ULTRA pissed after breaking my back for the last 2 years!
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Oh man.. [:(] That sux ass, BIG TIME. The purpose of my cabin is to have a small retreat for vacations and hunting. It isn't going to be my "home", so I think I might get a little latitude there, especially if I build rural enough where codes are more lenient. I know it's too little too late, but did you ever consider hand grading the logs down to a level flat? If I am not mistaken, many areas have zoning exemtions for "rustic homes" that aren't meant to be primary residences. The finnish style of log cabin uses a round log hand-hewn flat on 2 opposite sides, then stacked and jointed.
Link Posted: 6/22/2003 4:43:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/22/2003 4:51:11 PM EDT by Winston_Wolf]
... Wow [b]Cope[/b], what a hassle, sorry to hear about your authorities being such assholes. I hope your dreams come true soon. ... One of my closest and best friends (lives in a half million dollar home a tenth of a mile from me) hit it big during the Science & Technologies boom a few years back. I wish I had listened to him with more money to risk when he was prodding me to then. He also owns a whole section in northern AZ that I have keys to! ... Anyway, him and his lovely wife just bought this gorgeous place in Oregon from a guy that fell ill and could not finish. He just sent me pictures of the place and when I'm done with my project on the east coast and my vacation I'm visiting him there. This is a picture of the front of their new "log cabin" in works. [img]http://members.cox.net/stevenaz1/gene1.jpg[/img] ... Interior coming along nicely. My friend Gene and I always help each other out with our building projects. He said him and the wife would pay all my expenses if I chose to use some of my impending vacation in Oregon helping finish off some interior trim. [img]http://members.cox.net/stevenaz1/gene2.jpg[/img] ... The white specks in the left center of this pic are their cabin and barn. Do you recognize the famous mountain on the right? [img]http://members.cox.net/stevenaz1/gene3.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 6/22/2003 4:46:50 PM EDT
A friend of mine went in together and built a small cabin down next to a creek a few years ago. Just big enough for us to go and take the kids on a weekend... The cabin was only about 20 minutes from our normal residancies. One Saturday night some guys found out about it and went there and set it on fire, burned it to the ground, just for the hell of it. We could never prove who did it. Its best to have someone around your cabin to check on it if you can't visit it regularly. Many folks nowadays have zero respect for other people's property.
Link Posted: 6/22/2003 4:51:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Merril_B: I know it's too little too late, but did you ever consider hand grading the logs down to a level flat?
Oh yea, I thought plenty about it. Back then, the only relatively inexpensive tool available was this Prazi beam saw that attaches to a worm drive circular saw. But, then again, the net wasn't available back then either. [img]http://www.praziusa.com/images/pix-beamcutter5.jpg[/img] There seems to be many more hand tools available nowadays, such as these. [url]http://www.aloghomestore.com/tools-chainsaw.shtml#Beam%20Machine[/url] The ideal tool for such a task would be one of these. [img]http://www.woodmizer.com/Graphics/images/sawmills.jpg[/img] I didn't really have that kind of money back then, but nowadays I would buy one in a heartbeat if I were building a cabin. The bottom line....I wanted fully round logs. Not something that looked "store bought". Cope
Link Posted: 6/22/2003 4:56:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Cope:The bottom line....I wanted fully round logs. Not something that looked "store bought".
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... Yeah, but [b]Cope[/b], don't you still need flats for mating and insulation purposes? The cabin will still appear to have nice rough honed beams but you can't have cylindrical logs lying on their tangency can you? Chinking won't take care of that much gap.
Link Posted: 6/22/2003 5:36:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf: don't you still need flats for mating and insulation purposes? The cabin will still appear to have nice rough honed beams but you can't have cylindrical logs lying on their tangency can you? Chinking won't take care of that much gap.
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Actually, yes you can leave them completely round. The way we constructed my Parent's home was to saddle notch the corners, leaving the top and bottom of each course of logs touching each other. This left a horizontal "v" shaped recess on each side of the wall. Depending on the actual diameter of the logs, this recess was several inches deep on each side. In this space, we caulked any gaps between the logs, packed it full of insulation, nailed strips of metal lathe to each side to retain the insulation, and then covered the lathe with a mortar based waterproof chinking. Structurally, this is not as sound as having 8"-10" of contact area across each mating surface. Nevertheless, that's the way we did it when I was a kid, and that's the way I wanted to do it on my home. There were basically two rustic methods that I was aware of at the time. The pioneers either used dove tailed square logs with little or no chinking, or fully round saddle notched logs with lots of chinking. I personally preferred the chinked look. Nowadays, the log home manufacturers offer many different log profiles to choose from. I agree that my method wasn't the best, but it was the way I wanted to do it. I didn't want anyone to question whether or not it was a kit home. It was just the principle of the matter at the time. To give ya a bit more background on my Dad and the reasoning of why I wanted use this method, please read on. Before we built their cabin, he and I dug a well with a pick and shovel. I say "we", but all I did was empty the buckets of dirt he pulled up out of the ground on a rope and pulley. I was 10 at the time. Today, at age 57, my Dad is still the hardest working man I know. I will sorely miss him the day he passes on, but for years I have been planning on digging his grave with a pick and shovel. That may seem twisted this day and time, but I guarantee you I could dig him a grave as deep and square as any guy on a backhoe in the cemetery could. It's not a financial issue these days either. I have 20 other men working me, and I also own a backhoe. Like I said, it's in my blood. I doubt the cemetery will allow me to do this, but this would be the ultimate way to work off the grief and show respect for my Dad's long lived work ethic. Sorry for getting off track, but I felt like sharing a bit of my heritage for some reason. Cope
Link Posted: 6/22/2003 6:25:04 PM EDT
I, for one, enjoyed your sharing, Cope.
Link Posted: 6/22/2003 6:37:45 PM EDT
I think I would have built that house anyway Cope and let the county be damned! A dug well, your own septic system and if you had a generator, what would you need an inspection for? I'm glad you got your own home finally.
Link Posted: 6/22/2003 6:45:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Cope: To give ya a bit more background on my Dad and the reasoning of why I wanted use this method, please read on. Before we built their cabin, he and I dug a well with a pick and shovel. I say "we", but all I did was empty the buckets of dirt he pulled up out of the ground on a rope and pulley. I was 10 at the time. Today, at age 57, my Dad is still the hardest working man I know. I will sorely miss him the day he passes on, but for years I have been planning on digging his grave with a pick and shovel. That may seem twisted this day and time, but I guarantee you I could dig him a grave as deep and square as any guy on a backhoe in the cemetery could. It's not a financial issue these days either. I have 20 other men working me, and I also own a backhoe. Like I said, it's in my blood. I doubt the cemetery will allow me to do this, but this would be the ultimate way to work off the grief and show respect for my Dad's long lived work ethic. Sorry for getting off track, but I felt like sharing a bit of my heritage for some reason. Cope
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Cope, that is am [b]AMAZINGLY[/b] poignant thing to share. Thanks dude.
Link Posted: 6/22/2003 7:02:02 PM EDT
... [b]Cope[/b]. Sounds like you should let your pop in on the fun here at ARCOM. I agree, you should turn the tide on your cabin project and build it!
Link Posted: 6/22/2003 7:37:33 PM EDT
Thanks for the kind words, fellas. Didn't mean to hijack the thread. My interest in log cabins was sparked by my dad.
Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf: ... [b]Cope[/b]. Sounds like you should let your pop in on the fun here at ARCOM. I agree, you should turn the tide on your cabin project and build it!
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WW. Dad is fully aware of ARFCOM. I send him a link about discussions he may find interesting from time to time. He is more of a sportsman / C&R kinda guy than into Sport Utility Rifles's. While he has a boat load of goodies, I just can't get him interested in the stuff I enjoy shooting and collecting. He is perfectly happy with his Mini 14 for homestead defense purposes. [:)] He's a trip. To come from having nothing, basically building his homestead by the Foxfire series of books, to being able to go and do whatever he pleases at this stage in his life. In order for him to make his annual hunting trip to Alaska, Montana, Colorado, Canada, or wherever he hears the call of the wild, he has to cater to Mom. He has to take her to the choice of her destination during the summer months, so he can go hunting in the fall. Last month they came home from New York City grinning like a couple of possums. I couldn't believe it. They had a blast. I asked them where they were going next year, and they both agreed that they needed more time in NYC. It does my heart good to see them get ahead in life after working so hard for so long. And I still have plenty of life, Lord willing, ahead of me to build that dream log home one day. I'll definitely downscale it a bit. We don't even use the top floor of our current Cape style house. Cope
Link Posted: 6/22/2003 8:46:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 3:51:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: I've been building one of these for the last two years. [url]http://www.northeasternlog.com/html/riverbend.html[/url]
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... Two years!?!? Damn [b]thebeekeeper1[/b], you either need to conscript more friends to help or you're just about done. ... Is this the one I saw a picture here where someone was sitting on a quad in front of the place?
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 5:37:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 6:46:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/23/2003 6:49:34 AM EDT by thebeekeeper1]
Link Posted: 6/23/2003 7:18:44 AM EDT
Merril, you need to pick up a copy of "Shelters, Shacks, and Shanties"(ISBN 0-89815-482-0) This book was written by a gentleman named Daniel Beard in 1914. Its a simple, concise, to the point guide for building all manner of primitive structures using nothing more than a Axe. From the forward- "As this book is written for boys of all ages, it has been divided under two general heads, "The Tomahawk Camps" and "The Axe Camps", that is, camps which may be built with no tool but a hatchet, and camps that will need the aid of an axe[blue](echo6 sez use a chainsaw. This [b]IS[/b] the 21 century after all)[/blue] The smallest boys can build some of the simple shelters and the older boys can build the more difficult ones. The reader may, if he likes, begin with the first of the book, build his way through it, and graduate by building the log houses; in doing so he will be closely following the history of the human race, because ever since our arboreal ancestors with prehensile toes scampered among the branches of the pre-glacial forests and built nest-like shelters in the trees, men have made themselves shacks for a temporary refuge" Covered in the book are simple lean-to shelters, half cave shelters, overwater(swamp shacks)camps on stilts, full size two story log cabins, and pretty much everything in-between. If your planning on building a primitive structure, I think this book is the best $12.00 you could ever spend. echo6
Link Posted: 6/30/2003 3:10:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: ... Oh, I do have LOTS of friends asking when it will be finished, so that they can come and help me kill the deer and turkeys that infest the area. [BD]
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... Yup, similar to those friends that wanna take your boat out on Sundays but are too busy to stay afterwards to wipe the water-spots off.
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