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Posted: 6/19/2003 3:59:21 PM EDT
What is the deal with C&R licenses and why would you need one? The way I understand a C&R is that it's a firearm at least 50 years old. How does it differ from purchasing a current production firearm? Thanks in advance !
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 4:05:23 PM EDT
Curios = Curiosities. Something available in low numbers. And not neccesarily an older firearm. Relics = old stuff. Usually military surplus, but not always. The license is cheap and you get C&R guns delivered right to your door. You are the dealer.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 4:05:32 PM EDT
Basically it cuts out the paperwork on C&R firearms and you can order C&R firearms through the mail. I just bought a Yugo reworked Mauser 98K for $140 and a CZ24 for $80. They need to be cleaned up (Cosmoline) but they shoot great.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 4:11:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Fruit_of_the_Looms: Curios = Curiosities. Something available in low numbers. And not neccesarily an older firearm. Relics = old stuff. Usually military surplus, but not always. The license is cheap and you get C&R guns delivered right to your door. You are the dealer.
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Sorry to intrude but...You are NOT A DEALER rather just the opposit . You won't need an FFL to transfer a C&R to you but you can't go about selling C&R for profit as a commercial venture.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 4:31:50 PM EDT
Well, now I see it's usefulness if you can have certain firearms shipped directly to you. How much is a C&R license?
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 4:37:08 PM EDT
I'll try not to hijack this thread but I have a question too. The rules and regs on C&R say that you can't deal in firearms with a C&R liscense, right? Can you trade these guns for other guns? Can you never sell one of these guns or can you sell after a period of time? How does this work?
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 4:40:48 PM EDT
getting SKS rifles dropped at my door by UPS feels goood
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 4:46:02 PM EDT
You can sell to assist you in improving your collection. Not for profit as a commercial venture. It's natural to expect the value of you collection to increase over time...you just cant wheel and deal like a type 01 FFL... C&R are type 03 FFL'sAND you have to keep records. Look at www.cruffler.com
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 4:47:24 PM EDT
With a C&R you may not be in the business of dealing in firearms. You can buy, sell and trade to "enhance" your collection. You may even make a profit but if your "dealing" provides a significant amount of your living income you will be in big trouble. YMMV
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 4:48:10 PM EDT
Have you been over to visit us on the C&R forum? Plenty of us w/ C&R's over there...Lots of info! [url]http://ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=6&f=14[/url]
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 4:57:04 PM EDT
$30 for 3 year license. In CA for instance, I can have an M1 Garand shipped right to my door or buy one from a local dealer and walk out without the 10 day wait. C&R handgun purchases cannot be done through the mail with a C&R , have to go through an FFL, so not much use there. If you find handguns for sale on consignment at a LOCAL dealer your advantage is you are not limited to 1 per month. I'm not sure if you have a 10 day wait here, I'd have to check. Most other states do not restrict the handgun area of C&R.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 4:58:26 PM EDT
Curio: [img]http://www.lookadoo.com/images/mimi.jpg[/img] Relic: [img]http://www.mugshots.net/zsa_zsa_gabor/zsa_zsa_gabor.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 5:02:01 PM EDT
[url]http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/4653/cr_04.htm[/url] A list of guns that are C&R
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 5:04:06 PM EDT
Try this site... [url]http://pub113.ezboard.com/bparallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforums[/url]
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 5:06:44 PM EDT
oh yeah, the C&R allows you to get this in your mail box: [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=2&t=167698&w=searchPop[/url]
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 5:20:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By nightstalker: [url]http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/4653/cr_04.htm[/url] A list of guns that are C&R
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Not to steal your thunder, but here's a more up to date list. [url]http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/relics/index.htm[/url] Jonathan
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 6:56:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By W-W:
Originally Posted By Fruit_of_the_Looms: Curios = Curiosities. Something available in low numbers. And not neccesarily an older firearm. Relics = old stuff. Usually military surplus, but not always. The license is cheap and you get C&R guns delivered right to your door. You are the dealer.
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Sorry to intrude but...You are NOT A DEALER rather just the opposit . You won't need an FFL to transfer a C&R to you but you can't go about selling C&R for profit as a commercial venture.
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Yes, "dealer" was the wrong choice of words. [B)] But it got more people involved with the thread, thus more info. [:)]
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 7:12:28 PM EDT
so if i hold a C&R, i can have C&R MG's delivered to my door?? Or do I still need to do a Form 4?
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 7:13:32 PM EDT
ok, if as a C&R you can't be a dealer per se', is it OK to process a form 1 as a FFL(as he doesn't have a C&R for some strange reason) would for a freind for example, If he wants an M44 Mosin Nagant for example? Just one rifle, no profit, no business.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 7:15:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Furner: so if i hold a C&R, i can have C&R MG's delivered to my door?? Or do I still need to do a Form 4?
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Ditto, but if I have a class 3 permit (not C3 FFL) like some states allow? Any change?
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 7:22:32 PM EDT
with a C&R you don't fill out forms you send ink signed copies of your C&R to dealers, they send guns to you if you are selling to a friend, it has to be treated like any other private sale (except i think you have to log the gun out of your C&R book)
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 7:57:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2003 7:58:52 PM EDT by Andreuha]
Originally Posted By Red_Beard: with a C&R you don't fill out forms you send ink signed copies of your C&R to dealers, they send guns to you if you are selling to a friend, it has to be treated like any other private sale (except i think you have to log the gun out of your C&R book)
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Private sale? In NEW YORK? Ya sure about that? (Bear in mind, that the laws outside the city are more lax. Theyre like in all normal states, just nothing class 3 besides AOW's can be owned). I don't know the law's on un-registered sales (Bear in mind, me and my shooting partner like to stay as within the law as possible in terms of weapon ownership- which is why I even want a C&R, and havent already put down chump change and just got me a machinegun already through any local gang).
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 8:15:00 PM EDT
Dont forget about the C&R CLASS III guns you can buy, all you do is fill out the form and get the $200 tax stamp. No going througha clas III dealer BS. ALso, being able to buy C&R handguns ith NO NICS, NO SATE check. ALl right there to your door! I just bought this hadngun: will be on my doorstep on Tuesday [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid65/pc41700ffbf76cb281cdb6a9cfb1f390f/fbe4129f.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 8:40:00 PM EDT
"Curio" is how your mistress refers to you. "Relic" is how your wife refers to you. Oh, wait, never mind. I guess I should have read the whole thread. cynic
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 9:00:36 PM EDT
do the idiotic non-grandfather clause bans like that in NYC apply to C&R licensees (IE: the bayonet/lug on the M44 nagants had to be sawed off by regular registered owners) ? Same goes for class 3 laws, any way a civilian can own a C&R machinegun in a place like NY-STATE(not in the city, wont even try).
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 9:09:22 PM EDT
"... the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." that's the only law you need buy whatever you want
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 9:37:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2003 9:40:37 PM EDT by SteyrAUG]
Originally Posted By 223-Buckaroo: Well, now I see it's usefulness if you can have certain firearms shipped directly to you. How much is a C&R license?
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This should clear it up. After 1968 ATF went around arresting everyone who bought and sold guns at a profit WITHOUT a license (FFL). This means if you bought a used or antique gun at a gunshow for $125.00 and turned around and sold it for $150.00 to the undercover ATF agent who was trying to entrap you you got nailed for dealing in guns without a license. So people (ordinary collectors) started pulling FFLs to cover their asses. Problem is they were just doing it to protect their hobby and not to actually start a business. ATF didn't like that solution. ATF said if you were going to be a FFL you had to be a REAL FFL and be a active "dealer for profit" and cannot just "gain firearms for a personal collection." So people said "What the hell are we supposed to do?" So the C&R License solved the problem. It is a way for collectors to buy, sell and trade "collectable" (as the ATF defines it) firearms without undue risk of being prosecuted for "dealing without a license." However, IF it become obvious that you are not engaged in the normal activity of "collecting" but are using your C&R license to buy C&R guns cheap and then sell them at a profit, then the ATF can prosecute you for that. Editted to add: A C&R is a great deal. It is a cheap way to get a LOT of guns that most Type 01 dealers won't bother stocking anyway.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 9:48:40 PM EDT
Are fingerprint cards required for C&R license? You have to notify local CLEO but don't need their approval? Have I got that right?
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 9:59:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lazyshooter: Are fingerprint cards required for C&R license? You have to notify local CLEO but don't need their approval? Have I got that right?
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I "think" so on the fingerprint cards. You don't need CLEO approval, but you do have to send them a copy of the application as a means of notification.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 1:57:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lazyshooter: You have to notify local CLEO but don't need their approval? Have I got that right?
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Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: You don't need CLEO approval, but you do have to send them a copy of the application as a means of notification.
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In NYC, and other liberalist cesspit's, you might need the equivilant of one; So many people in NYC for example, theres someone seperate in the city for these interviews.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 2:20:05 PM EDT
No Fingerprints-and you just send a copy of the app. to your local CLEO. I didn't even get an acknowlegment...Just the license. Wait until you see what kind of moneypit that license is. Do go to www.cruffler.com and read.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 2:22:46 PM EDT
Don't forget that with a C&R license you qualify for the "dealer" discounts from MidwayUSA and Brownells (and probably others too...)
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 9:12:27 PM EDT
Are C&Rs in every state? I never hear about them in Maine, only in those "other states" where its warm. BISHOP
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 9:35:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 9:42:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 6:02:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Lumpy223: I just had this C&R delivered to my doorstep today. [8D] [url]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SgDhAjEWHjsvwy910H5nHUrmSoa8XMOIHUHkpUVBLMFh­bI3E2FW3KgTxaMY10RcoBlyA5wBykLQXUSbXbdsX!1g6P­stfZRS4e3I4S!1QoFxFv9ek9UudvQ/Right-Side.JPG?dc=4675427029573398280[/url]
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Hey Lump, That's a BM right? where did ya get it and what did it cost ya? ww
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 6:21:14 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 6:39:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By FanoftheBlackRifle: Don't forget that with a C&R license you qualify for the "dealer" discounts from MidwayUSA and Brownells (and probably others too...)
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For this reason alone, one should get a C&R. I have more than recouped the $30 it cost to obtain my C&R by shopping at those 2 places alone. [:)]
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 7:22:26 AM EDT
Hey Lumpy...I just ordered the Sistema-Now what do I tell the wife? I'm thinking of telling her I ordered it months ago and forgot about it as it was on backorder. How was the bore on yours...Will I have to buy a new barrel? Or hit it hard with Butch's Bore Shine?
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 6:40:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/22/2003 5:32:22 AM EDT
I can just see the hairy eyeball she'll give me when it arrives!
Link Posted: 6/22/2003 6:14:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Lumpy223: To be honest with you......I haven't taken it apart yet to check. According to LC Enterprises, it was fitted with a new barrel during the re-arsenal. Been working to much to take the time to tear it down for cleaning & inspection. Good luck with the wife. For what it's worth, my brother is in the exact same boat. He took one look at mine when it arrived and grabbed the phone and ordered one for himself.
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the bore on mine is pretty good check out the link i posted above
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