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Posted: 6/19/2003 6:55:34 AM EDT
[url=http://kfwb.com/news_local.asp?displayOption=&contentGUID={0B9B885E-CA41-499E-B0D0-F246B117448F}&groupName=KFWB%20Front%20Page%20Local%20Headlines&siteGUID={3B62BF55-4A93-48E6-A45D-6A495DC423AD}]Man Burned in Blast Faces Weapons of Mass Destruction Charges[/url] SANTA ANA (AP) 6.18.03, 9am -- Prosecutors have filed terrorism charges against a man who burned himself when a pipe bomb exploded in his car parked outside a campaign office of U.S. Rep. Loretta Sanchez, the first time use of a weapon of mass destruction under the federal Patriot Act was invoked in Southern California. Authorities Tuesday still were undecided whether the bomb was intended for the Democrat's Santa Ana strip mall Re-Elect Rep. Loretta Sanchez office. An investigation continued. Hai Duc Le was charged Tuesday with terrorism using a weapon of mass destruction, maliciously destroying buildings and vehicles, and using and carrying a destructive device, said Assistant U.S. Attorney John Hueston. Le, 34, was burned when the bomb exploded Sunday and remains hospitalized at Western Medical Center. His 33-year-old brother, Hien Duc Le, also was arrested and faces federal charges. He is being held without bail and is expected to appear before a federal magistrate Wednesday. In charging Hai Duc Le, federal prosecutors invoked the Patriot Act for the first time in Southern California. The anti-terrorism law, which extends the death penalty to more people accused of terrorist crimes, was enacted after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. The law expires in October 2005. "The fact that a congresswoman's office is there is important to us in determining possible intent and motive. But it was not the reason why we proceeded on these charges," Hueston said. Sanchez's aides confirmed the Le family had been in contact with their office earlier this year but there was no hint they were dissatisfied with the congresswoman. "We have no indication at this point what the motive was, that will be determined through the investigation," said Ron Iden, FBI assistant director in charge of the Los Angeles office. Sanchez told KCAL-TV in Los Angeles on Tuesday that she didn't believe the pipe bomb was directed at her. "I was surprised to hear that it was done in front of my campaign office," she said from Washington, D.C.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 7:14:06 AM EDT
Sounds like they should add a charge of "Criminal Stupidity"...
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 7:23:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2003 7:23:52 AM EDT by captainpooby]
Pipe bomb= WMD [?]
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 7:41:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By captainpooby: Pipe bomb= WMD [?]
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Of course. [brick] Just like an AK47.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 7:43:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By captainpooby: Pipe bomb= WMD [?]
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For the Bush regime it does.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 7:48:26 AM EDT
I'd be curious to see who exactly is using the term WMD (besides the media). Most legislation, as any postban rifle owner will tell you, has strict definitions of terms. I'm curious.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 7:51:21 AM EDT
I wonder who is paying for this POS hospital bill? (our tax system at work) Any bets on his legality?
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 7:57:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By m193:
Originally Posted By captainpooby: Pipe bomb= WMD [?]
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Of course. [brick] Just like an AK47.
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Are AKs actually listed, or are you just making a joke?
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 7:59:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2003 8:14:17 AM EDT by Cincinnatus]
Yeah. Just as I suspected. I did a search, and found that no one is using the term WMD, other than the writer of this story. None of the other news sources. Not the FBI. No one. So those of you who jumped the gun and got all into a tizzy over the phrase.... ...you've just been manipulated by the ignorant media. AP did a story with no mention of WMD. Local LA stories had the phrase. But never from the feds.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 8:02:00 AM EDT
[:)]
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 8:04:04 AM EDT
Or the dreaded AK-40!
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 8:25:09 AM EDT
....AND, after a quick look at the Patriot Act, I found something interesting. [b]NOWHERE[/b] in the Patriot Act is the term "WMD" or "Weapon(s) of Mass Destruction" to be found. It cites Nuclear, Bio and chemical weapons all seperately. But NOWHERE are they grouped together and called "WMD" or "Weapon(s) of Mass Destruction". You've been had. Let this be a lesson.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 8:37:32 AM EDT
Uh, oh. I have chlorine (gobs of it for the pool) and also ammonia. Do I hear somethign at the front door? WMD? Me? Posion gas you say? No I say. Holy crap. What about the ant spray under the counter?
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 8:44:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2003 8:45:16 AM EDT by Cincinnatus]
Further research shows this: The Patriot Act does refer to Section 2332e of Title 18 of the US Code. Here's what it says: [b]"The Attorney General may request the Secretary of Defense to provide assistance under section 382 of title 10 in support of Department of Justice activities relating to the enforcement of section 2332a of this title during an emergency situation involving a weapon of mass destruction."[/b] ...and the definitions are found in the US Code under Title 10: [url=http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/fastweb.exe?getdoc+uscview+t17t20+1024+0++%28chemical­%29%20%20AND%20%28%2818%29%20ADJ%20USC%29%3AC­ITE%20AND%20%28USC%20w%2F10%20%282332a%29%29%­3ACITE%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20]definition of WMD, and punishments for use[/url]
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 8:49:14 AM EDT
So essentially, there IS no such thing as being charged for using WMDs under the Patriot Act.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 10:06:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: So essentially, there IS no such thing as being charged for using WMDs under the Patriot Act.
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Tell that to the fed prosecutors who said he was being tried for use of WMD under the PA at the press conference yesterday.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 10:13:01 AM EDT
Idiot hurts self with pipe bomb outside congresscritter's office = dumbass. My compassion for said dumbass = zero. Alex
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 10:14:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2003 10:15:29 AM EDT by ColonelKlink]
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 10:40:47 AM EDT
See my "Oooh that's gotta hurt" thread. Back a few days in re this incident. OC Register had some stories about it today.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 10:41:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Originally Posted By m193:
Originally Posted By captainpooby: Pipe bomb= WMD [?]
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Of course. [brick] Just like an AK47.
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Are AKs actually listed, or are you just making a joke?
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I was making a funny. But, there was a post a few weeks ago about some politician calling an automatic rifle a WMD.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 10:50:36 AM EDT
Is the suspect a US citizen? Call me old fashioned, but it think if an illegal immigrant detonates a pipe bomb at a elected officials office, we should cut his head off in the town square.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 11:10:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Imbroglio:
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: So essentially, there IS no such thing as being charged for using WMDs under the Patriot Act.
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Tell that to the fed prosecutors who said he was being tried for use of WMD under the PA at the press conference yesterday.
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The law is quite clear. You can read it, or revel in your ignorance. Some people prefer sound bites and catchy phrases to the truth. I posted the Act. Read for yourself. Or you can just rely on misinformation, because it somehow suits your "needs".
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 11:14:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: The law is quite clear. You can read it, or revel in your ignorance.
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Knowing 'Brog's style, he'll choose the latter.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 11:19:42 AM EDT
I'm amazed at how people eat this crap, hook line and sinker. Not one mention in the Patriot Act of WMD. References to the US Code are there, and within that one finds clear definitions of WMD. But nothing in the Patriot Act. Honestly, who here has actually read the Patriot Act? I'd be willing to bet that most people who complain about it have never even read it. Which again demonstrates that they are being manipulated. Taken advantage of, because of their ignorance.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 11:52:19 AM EDT
[url=abclocal.go.com/kabc/news/061803_nw_pipebomb.html]Man Faces Terrorism Charges in Pipebomb Case[/url] SANTA ANA — Prosecutors have filed terrorism charges against a man injured in a pipe bomb explosion outside a Santa Ana campaign office of Congresswoman Loretta Sanchez. It's the first time federal Patriot Act charges of using a weapon of mass destruction have been invoked in Southern California. Authorities say they're still not sure whether the bomb inside Hai Duc Le's car was intended for the Democrat's strip mall office. The investigation continues. [b]Assistant U-S Attorney John Hueston says the 34-year-old man is charged with [red]terrorism using a weapon of mass destruction[/red], maliciously destroying buildings and vehicles, and using and carrying a destructive device.[/b] Hai Duc Le was badly burned when the bomb exploded Sunday and remains hospitalized at Western Medical Center. His 33-year-old brother, Hien Duc Le, also was arrested and faces federal charges. [url=www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,43178,00.html]Feds File Charges Against Shoe-Bomb Suspect[/url] "Our ability to prosecute terrorists has been greatly enhanced by the U.S.A. Patriot Act," Ashcroft said. [b]According to the indictment, "Richard Reid did attempt to use a weapon of mass destruction, consisting of an explosive bomb placed in each of his shoes" against Americans.[/b]
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 12:02:39 PM EDT
I say it's not going to fly. The term WMD is a very specific legal term. If they charge him with it, he'll get off. I suspect that the US Attorney is simply talking out of his ass. No where in US law is a pipe bomb considered a WMD. I'm curious as to how this progresses.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 12:40:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2003 12:43:52 PM EDT by Imbroglio]
SEC. 802. DEFINITION OF DOMESTIC TERRORISM. (a) DOMESTIC TERRORISM DEFINED.—Section 2331 of title 18, United States Code, is amended— (1) in paragraph (1)(B)(iii), by striking ‘‘by assassination or kidnapping’’ and inserting ‘‘[b]by mass destruction[/b], assassina-tion, or kidnapping’’; (2) in paragraph (3), by striking ‘‘and’’; (3) in paragraph (4), by striking the period at the end and inserting ‘‘; and’’; and (4) by adding at the end the following: ‘‘(5) the term ‘domestic terrorism’ means activities that— ‘‘(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State; ‘‘(B) appear to be intended— ‘‘(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; ‘‘(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or ‘‘(iii) [b]to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction[/b], assassination, or kidnapping; and ‘‘(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.’’. (b) CONFORMING AMENDMENT.—Section 3077(1) of title 18, United States Code, is amended to read as follows: ‘‘(1) ‘act of terrorism’ means an act of domestic or inter-national terrorism as defined in section 2331;’’.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 12:47:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
Originally Posted By Imbroglio:
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: So essentially, there IS no such thing as being charged for using WMDs under the Patriot Act.
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Tell that to the fed prosecutors who said he was being tried for use of WMD under the PA at the press conference yesterday.
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The law is quite clear. You can read it, or revel in your ignorance. Some people prefer sound bites and catchy phrases to the truth. I posted the Act. Read for yourself. Or you can just rely on misinformation, because it somehow suits your "needs".
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I posted the source with an expample how the same charge was made against Richard Reid. Now explain how I am going to "revel" in my own "ignorance". Explain how it "suits my needs".
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 2:44:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2003 3:59:50 PM EDT by Cincinnatus]
[b]"mass destruction"[/b] and [b]"weapon of mass destruction"[/b] are two very different things. To begin, one is a noun. (that's a hint) The definition of [b]"weapon of mass destruction"[/b] is just too plain and concrete, as it exists in the law. It is found in the US Code. The Reid case they may have some leeway, in that they might try to turn the aircraft into the "weapon". But I can't see how a decent attorney would not be able to shoot that down. But the case in LA there is simply no law that exists where he could be charged with WMD use/possession. In fact, I'll bet you it doesn't end up that way ($5). You have a point of view. You often times put on a guise of extreme sarcasm, a parody of your political foe, and/or feigned ignorance to make this point come through. [red][b]As an example of this, just take a peek at your signature line.[/red][/b] Sometimes it is very effective. Sometimes it is tiresome.
to "revel" in my own "ignorance". Explain how it "suits my needs".
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So my comments address your various personae. Right now you appear to be speaking as yourself, the human. But usually you are not. Pardon me for not knowing "which" Imbroglio I am addressing.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 9:02:27 PM EDT
Indoctrinate and Propaganda for the Masses of sheeples. I guess the words EVIL Black Rifle was not Scary enough. Dis-Information and Mind Control, Repeat Often and often and often and Long enough. The Propaganda Press Agenda. [size=1]^ Million Gun Freedom March on Washington July 4th, 2003. A Well-Regulated Militia Being Necessary To The... [url]www.Cures-not-wars.org/[/url] Truth Will Liberate Earth. [url]www.RKBA.org/antis/hci-master[/url]Allege 1993 feinstein/hci PRETEXT for TOTAL Gun Freedom Confiscation. [url]www.digitalAngel.net/[/url]Revelation 13:18 ID-GPS-MONEY [red]BAN[/red] Human Power Implant Micro-chip. Never Again, Never Forget -- Seek the Truth , Liberate Your Mind -- We Are At War[/size=1] FIXED BAYONETS -- FORWARD VX
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 4:29:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By VX: Indoctrinate and Propaganda for the Masses of sheeples. I guess the words EVIL Black Rifle was not Scary enough. Dis-Information and Mind Control, Repeat Often and often and often and Long enough. The Propaganda Press Agenda.
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I agree. I do believe that is what we are seeing here.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 7:08:00 AM EDT
Here is a more in-depth story from the Libertian Orange County Register, ie they are pro-gun. =============================================================================== Wednesday, June 18, 2003 [url=http://www2.ocregister.com/ocrweb/ocr/article.do?id=44235§ion=NEWS&subsection=NEWS&year=2003&month=6&day=18] Patriot Act highlights [url] [url=http://www2.ocregister.com/ocrweb/ocr/article.do?id=44234§ion=NEWS&subsection=NEWS&year=2003&month=6&day=18]First case in region under Patriot Act[/url] Pipe-bomb suspect charged with using weapon of mass destruction. By GREG HARDESTY The Orange County Register SANTA ANA – A Garden Grove man injured when a nail-packed pipe bomb exploded in his lap while he sat in a car outside Rep. Loretta Sanchez's office was charged Tuesday with using a weapon of mass destruction - the first time a Southern Californian has been accused of violating the Patriot Act. If convicted, Hai Duc Le, 34, faces a possible life sentence under the federal statute passed after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks - and a mandatory minimum of 35 years to life in prison, said John Hueston, chief of the U.S. Attorney branch in Santa Ana. Under state law, Le would have faced a maximum seven years in prison, District Attorney Tony Rackauckas said. "Anything like this is pursued aggressively as a possible terrorist act until we know otherwise," said Matt McLaughlin, an FBI spokesman in Los Angeles. "That's where we are these days." The target of Sunday's blast remains a mystery, however. Officials conceded that no direct link has been established between the bomb and the fact that Le and his brother were seeking immigration help from Sanchez. "We continue to focus on a motive and an intended target, and if anyone else was involved," said Ron Iden, assistant director in charge of the FBI's Los Angeles office. "None of that has been determined at this time." Asked about Sanchez, Hueston said: "We have certainly not ruled out that (she) may have been the target." Le's brother, Hien Duc Le, 33, also was charged with conspiracy, with enough material found in the Garden Grove home they shared to make three to four more bombs, authorities said. Hien Le faces a maximum five years in prison, Hueston said. He and his brother could face more charges after a grand jury issues an indictment within 10 days. Sanchez's main office is in Garden Grove, where Hien Le visited Friday to check on an ongoing immigration issue. The bomb exploded at her re-election headquarters in Santa Ana. Some additional details about the brothers and their alleged bombing plot emerged Tuesday, including that Hai Le had a rifle-style scope in his car and a remote detonator that could activate a bomb from 400 feet away. Authorities, at a news conference in Santa Ana, said Le pulled into the strip mall at McFadden Avenue and Harbor Boulevard at about 2:10 p.m. and parked his tan 1990 Toyota Cressida on the side of the congresswoman's office, which was closed. Hai Le sat in his car for about 15 minutes, listening to music, before the bomb went off, witnesses have said. Enlarged, color photos displayed Tuesday showed a torched interior and a cracked windshield. A remote detonating device was on the passenger seat. Outside the car were Le's tattered jeans and shirt, in a pile on the asphalt. Bits of nails and plastic pipe pieces were scattered about. Experts called Le's pipe bomb "sophisticated." The bomb was packed with roofing nails, and would have had roughly the power of a military grenade if it had completely exploded, authorities said. Such a blast can kill anyone within about 30 feet, they said. Instead, Hai Le suffered second- and third-degree burns over about 50 percent of his body. He remains hospitalized. Police found in his jeans a Home Depot receipt for numerous PVC pipe items that could be used to make a pipe bomb, according to an affidavit attached to the criminal complaint. The brothers appear to have no criminal background, FBI assistant director Iden said. They moved into a house in the 8700 block of Lariat Avenue in Garden Grove about six months ago, from Westminster. Their occupations are unknown. Hai Le became a naturalized U.S. citizen in 2001, and Hein Le is a permanent resident alien who entered the country in 1988, Iden said. Bomb materials found at their home Monday were "designed to inflict a tremendous amount of damage," Santa Ana police Chief Paul M. Walters said. A search of the garage turned up rocket engines, rocket igniters, PVC glue, an empty box for a model toy transmitter, a box of nails and other items, according to the affidavit. In a garbage can in the garage were more packages from model rocket igniters and engines, and torn pieces of coating from a model rocket engine, according to court documents. Police found in a bedroom notes about electronic circuitry, which could be used in wiring explosives, and an unused model rocket igniter in a closet, the affidavit said. When police arrived Monday to search the home, they found Hai Le there. He agreed to a search of his car, where police found in the trunk a box of nails and a four-bottle case of gunpowder – with one bottle missing. The other bottles were full and sealed. Walters said he did not know if the Le brothers were working alone in the alleged bomb plot. He also was unaware of any political affiliations they may have had in the Vietnamese community. District Attorney Tony Rackauckas said that under a program called Project Safe Neighborhood, his office recently designated one prosecutor, Dennis Bauer, to examine weapons-related cases to decide whether state or federal charges should be filed. In this case, federal prosecutors were tapped. "Before this, we would have had dual or parallel tracks of prosecution," Rackauckas said. "(This program) allows for judicial efficiency and allows us to seek justice to the fullest extent of the law.'' Hien Le is being held without bail at Santa Ana Jail. He is scheduled to be arraigned today at 2 p.m. in federal court in Santa Ana. Hai Le's arraignment has not been set. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- CONTACT US: (714) 796-2286 or ghardesty@ocregister.com
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