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Posted: 6/17/2003 4:09:15 AM EDT
[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2760-2003Jun16.html?nav=hptop_tb[/url]
Lynch's story is far more complex and different than those initial reports. Much of the story remains shrouded in mystery, in large part because of official Army secrecy, concerns for Lynch's privacy and her limited memory. The Post's initial coverage attracted widespread criticism because many of the sources were unnamed and because the accounts were soon contradicted by other military officials. In an effort to document more fully what had actually happened to Lynch, The Post interviewed dozens of people, including associates of Lynch's family in West Virginia; Iraqi doctors, nurses and civilian witnesses in Nasiriyah; and U.S. intelligence and military officials in Washington, three of whom have knowledge of a weeks-long Army investigation into the matter. The result is a second, more thorough but inconclusive cut at history. While much more is revealed about her ordeal, most U.S. officials still insisted that their names be withheld from this account. Lynch tried to fire her weapon, but it jammed, according to military officials familiar with the Army investigation. She did not kill any Iraqis. She was neither shot nor stabbed, they said. Lynch's unit, the 507th Maintenance Company, was ambushed outside Nasiriyah after taking several wrong turns. Army investigators believe this happened in part because superiors never passed on word that the long 3rd Infantry Division column that the convoy was following had been rerouted. At times, the 507th was 12 hours behind the main column and frequently out of radio contact. Lynch was riding in a Humvee when it plowed into a jackknifed U.S. truck. She suffered major injuries, including multiple fractures and compression to her spine, that knocked her unconscious, military sources said. The collision killed or gravely injured the Humvee's four other passengers. Two U.S. officials with knowledge of the Army investigation said Lynch was mistreated by her captors. They would not elaborate. Tipped that Lynch was inside Saddam Hussein General Hospital in Nasiriyah, the CIA, fearing a trap, sent an agent into the facility with a hidden camera to confirm she was there, intelligence sources said. The Special Operations unit's full-scale rescue of the private, while justified given the uncertainty confronting U.S. forces as they entered the compound, ultimately was proven unnecessary. Iraqi combatants had left the hospital almost a day earlier, leaving Lynch in the hands of doctors and nurses who said they were eager to turn her over to Americans.
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Link Posted: 6/17/2003 4:13:44 AM EDT
I was in a car wreck once, ya'll want to give me a free Cavarms?
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 4:20:59 AM EDT
and people feel she deserves an AR15...?
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 4:49:04 AM EDT
easy fellas...the inital reports of this incident were very different than whats coming out now (suprise, suprise). I can't blame people fro the desire to give the solider a rifle. If the inital reports were correct, she'd deserve it.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 4:59:49 AM EDT
Another interesting fact...I read an interview with her father yesterday where he was asked about her "memory loss" and about her "limited memory". He basically said, "She doesn't have any memory problems and remembers everything." But then he said they had been instructed not to talk about it until the investigation was complete. I don't know any more than the rest of you guys. But I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. One thing for sure. While she was getting injured in the Iraqi desert, I was sitting on my nuts in Texas. She's more of a hero than me.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 5:02:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Old_Painless: Another interesting fact...I read an interview with her father yesterday where he was asked about her "memory loss" and about her "limited memory". He basically said, "She doesn't have any memory problems and remembers everything." But then he said they had been instructed not to talk about it until the investigation was complete. I don't know any more than the rest of you guys. But I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. One thing for sure. While she was getting injured in the Iraqi desert, I was sitting on my nuts in Texas. She's more of a hero than me.
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What's that movie where Denzel goes around investigating that chopper pilot's death, Lou Diamond Phillips drives a Mustang head-on into a train...shit, just watched it the other day. Anyway, this is all sounding too familiar.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 5:06:14 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 5:07:38 AM EDT
A bone is thrown and all the goddamned dogs come and bark their stupid comments out. Yeah I'm talking about the first two responses to the thread. Keep your dumbass comments to yourself please.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 5:29:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2003 5:30:50 AM EDT by cluster]
Originally Posted By Old_Painless: I don't know any more than the rest of you guys. But I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. One thing for sure. While she was getting injured in the Iraqi desert, I was sitting on my nuts in Texas. She's more of a hero than me.
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Unless she starts claiming she did stuff she didnt really do.. God bless her.. like Old_Painless said.. I was looking for my TV remote while she an others were out in the desert. edited to add: If she does start lieing about it.. then Ill have to tell her to STFU just like the "NAVY SEAL" we have here at work :).. but thats aonther thread[:)]
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 5:38:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By redray: A bone is thrown and all the goddamned dogs come and bark their stupid comments out. Yeah I'm talking about the first two responses to the thread. Keep your dumbass comments to yourself please.
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Right back atcha!
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 6:05:29 AM EDT
If the whole story turns out to be bullshit, it's not going to be her fault. I don't recall ever hearing her claiming to have been in a firefight after the ambush. The army might be fucking up the story, trying to make it more than it is, but if so it's not her fault. She's not the villain; if anyone is, it's the army for trying to make a heroic figure out of her when, in reality, she's an attractive 19-year old who was in a car accident.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 6:17:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By eswanson: she's an attractive 19-year old
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I agree with most of what you said, but this is attractive? [img]http://www.nationalalliance.org/gulf2/lynch.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 6:18:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2003 6:20:02 AM EDT by Sukebe]
Originally Posted By norman74: What's that movie where Denzel goes around investigating that chopper pilot's death, Lou Diamond Phillips drives a Mustang head-on into a train...shit, just watched it the other day. Anyway, this is all sounding too familiar.
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So what you are really saying is that you want everyone to know you can't be duped by your Govt's. propaganda. Kudos for being a brilliant and free thinker. Although you seem very willing to accept the Washington Post's version of events. No big deal though you are still brilliant. Aren't you?
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 6:23:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By norman74:
Originally Posted By eswanson: she's an attractive 19-year old
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I agree with most of what you said, but this is attractive? [url]http://www.nationalalliance.org/gulf2/lynch.jpg[/url]
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Well, not in that picture, but there was a pic from before the war where she looked pretty good. And in a related story:
CBS News did nothing improper in dangling possible book and TV deals while pursuing an interview with rescued soldier Jessica Lynch, a spokeswoman said Monday. There was a clear distinction between the request for an interview with Lynch and possible deals with MTV, Simon & Schuster and other Viacom divisions, CBS News spokeswoman Sandy Genelius said. Other networks made similar inquiries, she contended.
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[url]http://www.msnbc.com/news/927518.asp[/url]
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 6:23:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Old_Painless: I was sitting on my nuts in Texas.
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Ouch!
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 6:24:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sukebe:
Originally Posted By norman74: What's that movie where Denzel goes around investigating that chopper pilot's death, Lou Diamond Phillips drives a Mustang head-on into a train...shit, just watched it the other day. Anyway, this is all sounding too familiar.
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So what you are really saying is that you want everyone to know you can't be duped by your Govt's. propaganda. Kudos for being a brilliant and free thinker. Although you seem very willing to accept the Washington Post's version of events. No big deal though you are still brilliant. Aren't you?
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No, I think what he wanted everyone to know was that there's a movie out there that may have some similarity to current events.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 6:25:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By redray: A bone is thrown and all the goddamned dogs come and bark their stupid comments out. Yeah I'm talking about the first two responses to the thread. Keep your dumbass comments to yourself please.
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You must be one of the guys who thought she should get the Medal of Honor, and her bust on Mount Washington, for killing dozens of the enemy until she ran out of ammo, then engaging in hand to hand combat... [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 6:38:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2003 6:41:22 AM EDT by monkeyman]
Some of us thought originally that broken legs and arms and such were more likely the result of an accident rather than a firefight. However, it is very likely that the accident was caused by the firefight. IMHO, being in a firefight and crashing as a result of one isn't much different than being wounded directly. She put her life on the line just being there and as such she deserves our praise and thanks. So whether she is just victim of circumstance or Gen. Patton incarnate, it is the media who blew this out of proportion, not the army.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 6:45:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By eswanson:
Originally Posted By Sukebe:
Originally Posted By norman74: What's that movie where Denzel goes around investigating that chopper pilot's death, Lou Diamond Phillips drives a Mustang head-on into a train...shit, just watched it the other day. Anyway, this is all sounding too familiar.
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So what you are really saying is that you want everyone to know you can't be duped by your Govt's. propaganda. Kudos for being a brilliant and free thinker. Although you seem very willing to accept the Washington Post's version of events. No big deal though you are still brilliant. Aren't you?
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No, I think what he wanted everyone to know was that there's a movie out there that may have some similarity to current events.
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Thanks eswanson, you hit it right on the head. I was simply using the movie to show parallels, Sukebe, unbunch your panties & relax.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 6:46:30 AM EDT
If I didn't know better, I'd think some of you guys figured she staged the whole thing herself. She was an American soldier severely injured in combat. She was rescued by a Special Operations group. Where is the conspiracy? She was bound to achieve some fame given the situation, but that is hardly her fault.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 6:54:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By marvl: If I didn't know better, I'd think some of you guys figured she staged the whole thing herself. She was an American soldier severely injured in combat. She was rescued by a Special Operations group. Where is the conspiracy? She was bound to achieve some fame given the situation, but that is hardly her fault.
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Personally, I'm not blaming her for anything. However, I'm not lifting her up above anyone else either. She was part of a support group that got lost (who's fault is that again?) and wound up getting jacked up. From the get go I've advocated waiting to hear the full story before we go givng people free rifles, that's all. What I guess I am commenting on is two things, One, she ain't pretty. Ya'll can post that pic of her sitting by the tree all you want, but what's under that hat in the pic above is what you're going to wake up to. Two, this whole thing is simply a propaganda machine run amok, and I for one find it entertaining that the whole story is unwraveling. Maybe it's my cycnical nature, but that's the way I see it.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 6:55:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86:
Originally Posted By redray: A bone is thrown and all the goddamned dogs come and bark their stupid comments out. Yeah I'm talking about the first two responses to the thread. Keep your dumbass comments to yourself please.
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You must be one of the guys who thought she should get the Medal of Honor, and her bust on Mount Washington, for killing dozens of the enemy until she ran out of ammo, then engaging in hand to hand combat... [rolleyes]
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Nope. You're one of those barking dogs aren't you? All I'm saying is, give the poor kid a break. Like, Old Painless, I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt. I have not pre-judged her unlike some of you idiots who seem to have the straight skinny on everything that happens in the world.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 6:57:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2003 7:01:00 AM EDT by Cincinnatus]
The Special Operations unit's full-scale rescue of the private, while justified given the uncertainty confronting U.S. forces as they entered the compound, [red]ultimately was proven unnecessary.[/red] Iraqi combatants had left the hospital almost a day earlier, leaving Lynch in the hands of doctors and nurses who said they were eager to turn her over to Americans.
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So stupid. With that logic... ...if a serviceman didn't fire his or her weapon during the Iraq conflict, bringing the weapon, therefore to Iraq [red]ultimately was proven unnecessary.[/red] Carrying NBC gear? [red]...ultimately was proven unnecessary.[/red] Carrying battledressings if you weren't wounded? [red]...ultimately was proven unnecessary.[/red] Spare parts that weren't used? [red]...ultimately was proven unnecessary.[/red] Nonsense. It was the MEDIA that created the whole "hero story", NOT the government. The hype was pure "Entertainment Tonight" material. Who here has a quote of a government statement that confirms or creates the "Firefight Fiction"? The media are the culprits.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 6:59:43 AM EDT
Let's extend this thread a few pages... [I]She shouldn't have been there in the first place. Wimmens got no business anywhere near a battle zone. [/i] [devil]
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 6:59:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By eswanson: I don't recall ever hearing her claiming to have been in a firefight after the ambush. The army might be fucking up the story, trying to make it more than it is, but if so it's not her fault.
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We have a winner! Q) When did she make a statement to the press? A) repeat after me, NEVER. Stop bashing the girl. She did more good over in Iraq, then most of us lazy pricks here in the states. [img]http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/stfu6.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 7:05:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2003 7:06:15 AM EDT by Cincinnatus]
...and members of her unit who survived the ambush WERE in a firefight! A horrendous firefight. One NCO was wounded several times (shot), and then walked miles, leading his men to safety. They didn't know what happened to Lynch during this firefight, but the fact remains: During a firefight, she sustained injuries caused by said firefight. Many were shot. She wasn't. But not every battle injury is a bullet wound. People need to get a grip. This is simple shit.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 7:12:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2003 7:13:33 AM EDT by Tonys68l36]
***Lynch was riding in a Humvee when it plowed into a jackknifed U.S. truck. She suffered major injuries, including multiple fractures and compression to her spine, that knocked her unconscious, military sources said. The collision killed or gravely injured the Humvee's four other passengers.*** I am having a hard time with the whole "Humvee just run into a truck" story. Those Humvees are built tough, don't go that fast, and who in the world can't see a huge truck ahead of them(even with the sand/wind). I don't really trust any of the "news" stations anymore. I will just wait to hear from the soldiers themselfs before making my mind up. Either way they were there serving...
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 7:20:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Tonys68l36: I am having a hard time with the whole "Humvee just run into a truck" story. Those Humvees are built tough, don't go that fast, and who in the world can't see a huge truck ahead of them(even with the sand/wind).
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Why not? Happens all the time, even under prime conditions, like bright daylight, free highway, nobody shooting at you or other combat stress.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 7:20:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By redray: A bone is thrown and all the goddamned dogs come and bark their stupid comments out. Yeah I'm talking about the first two responses to the thread. Keep your dumbass comments to yourself please.
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Hey Dumbass....my comment was a fuckin question looking for insight....
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 7:21:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By redray:
Originally Posted By liberty86:
Originally Posted By redray: A bone is thrown and all the goddamned dogs come and bark their stupid comments out. Yeah I'm talking about the first two responses to the thread. Keep your dumbass comments to yourself please.
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You must be one of the guys who thought she should get the Medal of Honor, and her bust on Mount Washington, for killing dozens of the enemy until she ran out of ammo, then engaging in hand to hand combat... [rolleyes]
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Nope. You're one of those barking dogs aren't you? All I'm saying is, give the poor kid a break. Like, Old Painless, I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt. I have not pre-judged her unlike some of you idiots who seem to have the straight skinny on everything that happens in the world.
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Red, I'm NOT judging Private Lynch. Never have. I just wanna illustrate how important it is for all of us to be very cautious when it comes to propaganda. I don't recall the military putting out the original info. I don't recall them denying it either. In fact, they put the best face on it to play up the "rescue"...[rolleyes]
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 7:34:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2003 7:39:06 AM EDT by Cincinnatus]
Originally Posted By liberty86: I don't recall them denying it either. In fact, they put the best face on it to play up the "rescue"...[rolleyes]
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Rolling your eyes at the word "rescue" makes you seem just as much the victim of propaganda as anyone (in this case, Leftist propaganda). Going into a building in unsecured enemy territory during a war, to extract a servicemember is indeed a "rescue". That there were no armed enemy at the site does not change this. It was/is a war, after all. To say it was not a rescue, when common sense says otherwise, demonstrates an agenda.
In fact, they put the best face on it to play up the "rescue"...[rolleyes]
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What exactly does that mean, anyway? The announcment of her recovery was terse, at best. When and how was a "best face" put on it? There was no reputable original "info" about her capture. How could the military confirm or deny something about which there were no eyewitnesses?
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 8:04:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
Originally Posted By liberty86: I don't recall them denying it either. In fact, they put the best face on it to play up the "rescue"...[rolleyes]
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Rolling your eyes at the word "rescue" makes you seem just as much the victim of propaganda as anyone (in this case, Leftist propaganda). Going into a building in unsecured enemy territory during a war, to extract a servicemember is indeed a "rescue". That there were no armed enemy at the site does not change this. It was/is a war, after all. To say it was not a rescue, when common sense says otherwise, demonstrates an agenda.
In fact, they put the best face on it to play up the "rescue"...[rolleyes]
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What exactly does that mean, anyway? The announcment of her recovery was terse, at best. When and how was a "best face" put on it? There was no reputable original "info" about her capture. How could the military confirm or deny something about which there were no eyewitnesses?
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The enemy left the area the day before. Are you telling me our vaunted "intelligence" didn't know that?? Would you keep such a target under constant surveillance, once you discovered it, to make sure the target wasn't moved?? (You can bet your ass THEY did! Ergo, they knew the enemy had withdrawn.) Come daylight, they coulda sent a coupla MP's with sidearms, and an ambulance to pick her up... But then, we wouldn't have all the neat "rescue" footage for tv. [rolleyes] [:D]
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 8:16:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2003 8:17:24 AM EDT by eswanson]
Originally Posted By liberty86: The enemy left the area the day before. Are you telling me our vaunted "intelligence" didn't know that??
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According to whom? The Washington Post? The British press? The Iraqis in the hospital? The part about being cautious when it comes to propaganda goes both ways.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 8:17:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2003 8:18:19 AM EDT by Cincinnatus]
Originally Posted By liberty86: The enemy left the area the day before. Are you telling me our vaunted "intelligence" didn't know that?? Would you keep such a target under constant surveillance, once you discovered it, to make sure the target wasn't moved?? (You can bet your ass THEY did! Ergo, they knew the enemy had withdrawn.) Come daylight, they coulda sent a coupla MP's with sidearms, and an ambulance to pick her up... But then, we wouldn't have all the neat "rescue" footage for tv. [rolleyes] [:D]
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With that brilliant battlefield logic, why even bring the sidearms? You're kidding. I'm going to assume that you're joking. Otherwise I have to assume you believe what you're saying, and that would mean you really lack a clear understanding of the situation. Remember Iraq? The War? All the shooting and blood? Fog of war. Does that phrase ring a bell? Are you saying you'd have planned the "rescue" without firearms? If not, why would you bring them? Why not just rely on perfect intelligence and surveillence? You're just being silly. I can't believe that you'd be so dim.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 8:33:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Tonys68l36: I am having a hard time with the whole "Humvee just run into a truck" story. Those Humvees are built tough, don't go that fast, and who in the world can't see a huge truck ahead of them(even with the sand/wind). I don't really trust any of the "news" stations anymore. I will just wait to hear from the soldiers themselfs before making my mind up. Either way they were there serving...
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The Humvee was hit by an RPG before it ran into the truck. [url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2760-2003Jun16.html?nav=hptop_tb[/url]
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 8:39:22 AM EDT
Right now all the best info indicates that Private Lynch was just a soldier who got caught in a bad situation. It just happens that she is a young, attractive female, with all of the resulting political and social implications. However, there are some real heros in the story (again based upon best info): "senior noncommissioned officer, Master Sgt. Robert J. Dowdy, 38" and: "There were other acts of bravery. One soldier, whose name could not be learned, bolted from his vehicle to try to rescue other soldiers from a disabled vehicle. He took cover behind a berm, not realizing at first that Iraqi soldiers were on the other side in a mortar pit. When he did, he killed a half-dozen of them with his weapons, the defense official said. Soon, though, he was surrounded by a couple of dozen armed Iraqis and is believed to have been killed on the spot." [url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2760-2003Jun16.html?nav=hptop_tb[/url]
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 8:50:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DonS: Right now all the best info indicates that Private Lynch was just a soldier who got caught in a bad situation.
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Thank the lord, somebody finally gets it!
It just happens that she is a young, attractive female, with all of the resulting political and social implications.
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Dude, did you see the pic above? I will agree though that she can probably be made to be passable.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 8:50:34 AM EDT
Boy oh boy, there is a lot of chest-beating and shit-talkin' by a bunch of non-hacks who weren't there when the balloon went up. [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 8:52:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 8:54:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BYU: Boy oh boy, there is a lot of chest-beating and shit-talkin' by a bunch of non-hacks who weren't there when the balloon went up. [rolleyes]
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Forgive my ignorance, what did/do you do?
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 8:58:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86: The enemy left the area the day before. Are you telling me our vaunted "intelligence" didn't know that?? Would you keep such a target under constant surveillance, once you discovered it, to make sure the target wasn't moved?? (You can bet your ass THEY did! Ergo, they knew the enemy had withdrawn.) Come daylight, they coulda sent a coupla MP's with sidearms, and an ambulance to pick her up... But then, we wouldn't have all the neat "rescue" footage for tv. [rolleyes] [:D]
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Yeah, and if there was just one hold out left in the hospital with an AK or even a Makarov, it could have gone real bad . . . Best to go in with overwhelming force, take out any threats ASAP. They did the rescue the right way.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 9:06:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By norman74:
Originally Posted By BYU: Boy oh boy, there is a lot of chest-beating and shit-talkin' by a bunch of non-hacks who weren't there when the balloon went up. [rolleyes]
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Forgive my ignorance, what did/do you do?
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I never claimed to do anything. Besides, what I did or did not do during my military service is germane to the discussion at hand. What is central to the discussion at hand is how people like to rag on PFC Lynch & her serivce in Iraq in order to make themselves seem like superior intellectuals & conspiracy theorists/ to illustrate their self-important to the entire board/ to belittle her because she is female and somehow unworthy of the respect due a soldier wearing the uniform/ et al.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 9:08:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By norman74:
Originally Posted By DonS: It just happens that she is a young, attractive female, with all of the resulting political and social implications.
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Dude, did you see the pic above? I will agree though that she can probably be made to be passable.
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I've seen other pictures that make her quite a bit more than passable. But that's not really the point: even in the BDU photo, she is quite a bit better looking than any other soldiers from her outfit (that I've seen), and not what you usually expect to find in a foxhole.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 9:16:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2003 9:18:06 AM EDT by DonS]
Originally Posted By BYU: I never claimed to do anything. Besides, what I did or did not do during my military service is germane to the discussion at hand. What is central to the discussion at hand is how people like to rag on PFC Lynch & her serivce in Iraq in order to make themselves seem like superior intellectuals & conspiracy theorists/ to illustrate their self-important to the entire board/ to belittle her because she is female and somehow unworthy of the respect due a soldier wearing the uniform/ et al.
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She has gained quite a bit of fame because of who she is and what happened to her, as opposed to what she actually did. Not to knock her, but some others appear to have actually performed heroic acts. Yet we don't know their faces, or in some cases even their names. And no one is suggesting that we buy Master Sgt. Robert J. Dowdy's survivors an AR. I haven't seen anyone belittle Lynch, but there never was much evidence of her heroics, and what evidence did exist seems to have fizzled with better info. It appears she basically did her job, and we have to respect that, but that in no way makes her a hero.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 9:22:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DonS: She has gained quite a bit of fame because of who she is and what happened to her, as opposed to what she actually did. Not to knock her, but some others appear to have actually performed heroic acts. Yet we don't know their faces, or in some cases even their names. And no one is suggesting that we buy Master Sgt. Robert J. Dowdy's survivors an AR. I haven't seen anyone belittle Lynch, but there never was much evidence of her heroics, and what evidence did exist seems to have fizzled with better info. It appears she basically did her job, and we have to respect that, but that in no way makes her a hero.
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Well said. And we have to be careful to criticize the government or media for exaggerating or embellishing the story, and not make it her problem. She's not the problem, and she's not the hero. She's a kid who did her job, and if given the chance, would probably prefer to remain anonymous rather than put up with all the media circus.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 9:23:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By eswanson: According to whom? The Washington Post? The British press? The Iraqis in the hospital? The part about being cautious when it comes to propaganda goes both ways.
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The facts according to the BBC, Iraqis, and the US military converge for the most part. It seems to be a matter of interpretation. Frankly, the interpretation of events given by the Iraqi hospital personnel makes me really question their critical thinking skills. I don't really expect the BBC to show much in the way of critical thinking skills, so no surprises there. It does appear that the US had a good idea that Iraqi forces were leaving the area. They also knew that quite a few armed Iraqis had been in the area, and they went in with overwhelming force, just like they should have.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 9:30:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DonS:
Originally Posted By norman74:
Originally Posted By DonS: It just happens that she is a young, attractive female, with all of the resulting political and social implications.
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Dude, did you see the pic above? I will agree though that she can probably be made to be passable.
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I've seen other pictures that make her quite a bit more than passable. But that's not really the point: even in the BDU photo, she is quite a bit better looking than any other soldiers from her outfit (that I've seen), and not what you usually expect to find in a foxhole.
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That ain't saying much. As a single young man, I wouldn't look at her twice. Saying "she's better looking than Hillary Clinton" ain't sayin much. I haven't seen a close-up yet that looks good. It takes more than blond hair and a relatively slender figure for me to call a chick attractive.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 9:35:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2003 9:43:46 AM EDT by SNorman]
You know what the issue is here? You freaking LEG HUMPERS!!!! Any time a woman does anything related to firearms she is freakin god. 1) When the initial reports came out, all the leg humpers wanted to give Lynch a rifle. Anybody who disagreed was a "JERK". Anybody who wanted to wait until the full story came out was a hater. She was a HERO right? And singled out as so, because of guys on here who haven't been laid in years. 2) A more accurate story comes out. Now according to the posts I've read from you L.H.'s, if I believe this story I'm "bashing" Pfc. Lynch. I'm not bashing her or saying she did not do her job!! But guess what, I do not jerk off to her picture every night OK? I'm not about to fork out money to buy her a rifle. If you still think this is appropriate, please tell me WHY she deserves some special treatment from ar15.com as opposed to ALL of our other boys KIA and WIA.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 9:45:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: I can't believe that you'd be so dim.
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Believe it.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 9:47:07 AM EDT
It's painfully obvious that Priv. Lynch has not contributed one iota of hype to this affair. Some "jason blair-type" invented a story and others ran with it when no one was willing to wait long enough for a thorough investigation. Then the wags and pundits weighed in and got a free column or two from the confusion. Just another aspect of the fog of war. Probably some heroism in the story if anyone's still alive that was a witness. Lynch doesn't seem to be either the hero or the witness.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 9:48:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By eswanson: Well said. And we have to be careful to criticize the government or media for exaggerating or embellishing the story, and not make it her problem. She's not the problem, and she's not the hero. She's a kid who did her job, and if given the chance, would probably prefer to remain anonymous rather than put up with all the media circus.
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From what I've read, our government didn't embellish the story. There appear to be "leaks" of her "heroic fight" that were based upon intercepted Iraqi radio transmissions. So some members of the government released info that had little factual basis, either because they 1) thought it was true and they wanted to share it or 2) they had some other agenda. Note that different government sources came out with different versions of events.
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