Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 6/15/2003 11:41:29 AM EDT
Dont do what these kids did though:
1 slain, 3 wounded after chase Gunmen in SUV pursue 4, trap them Emily Bittner The Arizona Republic Jun. 15, 2003 12:00 AM Four people returning from a party were chased and shot in Phoenix early Saturday by three men who followed their car into a residential neighborhood, trapped them and opened fire. The driver was killed, and her three passengers were wounded. The driver, Lynsey Chainhalt, was a 20-year-old Phoenix woman, said Sgt. Lauri Williams, a spokeswoman for the Phoenix Police Department. Ryan Jones, 22, was in extremely critical condition. Jeremy Johnson, 19, and Dustin Gavin, 20, were hospitalized but expected to recover. Police don't think the victims knew the shooters, Williams said. "We believe that they got in some kind of dispute on the roadway," she said. The victims were on their way home from a party in Mesa shortly after 2 a.m., Williams said. They were riding in a Chevy Cavalier on the Piestewa Freeway and moving to music in the car when a dark full-size sport utility vehicle pulled up beside them and its occupants started gesturing. Chainhalt tried to flee and exited the freeway at Greenway Road, Williams said. She drove through the residential streets, trying to get back onto the freeway. The SUV followed her and cut her off in a neighborhood at 20th Street and Grovers Avenue, Williams said. Chainhalt tried to back out but was blockaded into a driveway. Three men got out of the SUV and opened fire. All three men fired multiple rounds, hitting all four of the victims. Police are investigating but have made no arrests. Reporter Katy Scott contributed to this article.
View Quote
Well, what do you do?
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 11:44:52 AM EDT
pull my SKS out of the back seat, load it, and shoot back
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 11:45:41 AM EDT
Frankly, if the requirements for use of deadly force are present (in imminent fear of death or serious bodily injury), I would say open fire. A couple of well-place rounds in the radiator and that vehicle isn't going to go much further. The same could be said for a couple of well-placed rounds in the driver.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 11:48:32 AM EDT
1. Don't drink and drive. 2. Call 911 and stay on the line. 3. Don't drink and drive. 4. Drive to the nearest police station, hospital, or well-lighted public place. 5. Don't drink and drive. 6. Do not make contact with the assailants. 7. Don't drink and drive. 8. Do not drive into unfamiliar areas. 9. Don't drink and drive. I know the article doesn't say anything about the driver in this case being intoxicated, but I'd venture a guess that, generally speaking, any given 20-something out at 0200 leaving a party will not be clear-headed.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 11:49:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl: Dont do what these kids did though:
1 slain, 3 wounded after chase Gunmen in SUV pursue 4, trap them Emily Bittner The Arizona Republic Jun. 15, 2003 12:00 AM Four people returning from a party were chased and shot in Phoenix early Saturday by three men who followed their car into a residential neighborhood, trapped them and opened fire. The driver was killed, and her three passengers were wounded. The driver, Lynsey Chainhalt, was a 20-year-old Phoenix woman, said Sgt. Lauri Williams, a spokeswoman for the Phoenix Police Department. Ryan Jones, 22, was in extremely critical condition. Jeremy Johnson, 19, and Dustin Gavin, 20, were hospitalized but expected to recover. Police don't think the victims knew the shooters, Williams said. "We believe that they got in some kind of dispute on the roadway," she said. The victims were on their way home from a party in Mesa shortly after 2 a.m., Williams said. They were riding in a Chevy Cavalier on the Piestewa Freeway and [red]moving to music in the car[/red] when a dark full-size sport utility vehicle pulled up beside them and its occupants started gesturing. Chainhalt tried to flee and exited the freeway at Greenway Road, Williams said. She drove through the residential streets, trying to get back onto the freeway. The SUV followed her and cut her off in a neighborhood at 20th Street and Grovers Avenue, Williams said. Chainhalt tried to back out but was blockaded into a driveway. Three men got out of the SUV and opened fire. All three men fired multiple rounds, hitting all four of the victims. Police are investigating but have made no arrests. Reporter Katy Scott contributed to this article.
View Quote
Well, what do you do?
View Quote
Maybe the guys in the SUV don't like people imitating that annoying Eclipse commercial. In that case, I would say it is best to not breakdance in the passenger seat of the car.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 11:52:14 AM EDT
I don't think that them being drunk CAUSED these people to attack them. But I think that they were looking for some drunks to roll. When you are drunk, or stoned, you are very vulnerable to attacks of all kinds. It is odd that nothing was stolen in this case. Some gangbangers just think it was fun to terrorize and kill a bunch of White yuppie puppies?
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 11:52:58 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 11:56:01 AM EDT
Drug deal gone bad???
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 11:59:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 12:00:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LS1Eddie: Drug deal gone bad???
View Quote
Maybe mistaken identity,
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 12:04:37 PM EDT
I'd guess that the "gesturing" was taken to be "gang" signs, and those in the SUV took that to be insulting. Personally, I'd race to the nearest crowded public place, lock and load, and prepare to defend myself. Sadly, liberals will see this as a reason to ban guns when in reality it is the reason people should learn proper firearms handling and carry a gun for protection.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 12:05:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl: I don't think that them being drunk CAUSED these people to attack them. But I think that they were looking for some drunks to roll. When you are drunk, or stoned, you are very vulnerable to attacks of all kinds. It is odd that nothing was stolen in this case. Some gangbangers just think it was fun to terrorize and kill a bunch of White yuppie puppies?
View Quote
I agree completely with your assessment. I was offering the intoxication theory to suggest that one's decision-making and driving skills are greatly diminished. Even if the driver hadn't been drinking, it's possible that a couple of her "homeys" may have been "gettin' all up in the face wit da G's" in this case. Hopefully a good enough description of the perp vehicle, combined with the perps being stupid enough to try this shit again, will bring the perps to justice - official or otherwise.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 12:06:21 PM EDT
i dont know about you girls, but whenever i let a woman drive me back from a party its because she hadnt been drinking............... makes me feel better about having guns shoved into every crevass of my crew cab though. course, nobody in an "SUV" is gonna block me in in that truck.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 12:11:00 PM EDT
Sounds like a hate crime to me. It will never be charged as such. All the more reason that my daughter will be armed and very dangerous by the time she hits sixteen.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 12:26:35 PM EDT
Well since I live out in the country and know every back road around my area, hit the backroads and let them try to find me then. I could get somebody really lost on those backroads looking for me.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 12:40:07 PM EDT
originally posted by BillofRights: Sounds like a hate crime to me. It will never be charged as such. All the more reason that my daughter will be armed and very dangerous by the time she hits sixteen. Absolutely precision callin on that one! If there was ever a hate crime, this is one! I have two daughters and this is the shit I worry about in the their futures. They too will be armed and trained in the way of the iron! Gone will be the victimized white female. There is also the evading mindset that must be taught. While it is true that the mind of a woman fails to function normally during stressful situations, training and good decision making will get you out of a dangerous scenario. Driving into a police station, 24 hour Walmart, or a 7-11 like a bat out of hell right into the front nearest to the doors, will dissuade the most aggressive attacker! Some people just don't think when they send their children out into the world untrained and ignorant, however these 3 male victims should have known what to do! For that, there is just no excuse!
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 12:44:56 PM EDT
#1: I carry "black rifle" and pistol with me almost all of the time #2: my car can ditch almost any car out there...if not, it has [b]brakes[/b] and maneuvering capabilities, and I KNOW how to drive it (like I stole it)
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 1:04:03 PM EDT
What do you THINK we'd do?!
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 1:16:39 PM EDT
Depends where you are and how well you know the area, and the laws. Here in FL (and, I'd say similarly in AZ), if I knew where there was a Sheriff station, I'd drive there. If none nearby and the characters got more threatening, .45 slugs tend to be a good argument. Actually, something like this happened to me when I lived in NJ. Some characters (don't want to add any racial slurs here) started coming after me on the way out of NYC. They followed me to the town where I lived - about 2 miles from the bridge. I drove right into the parking lot of the police station. They followed. Man, did they back up and out fast when they relized where they were.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 1:18:14 PM EDT
Lets just say, if I was unlucky or unskilled enough to get cut off and trapped, there would not be a one sided exchange of gunfire.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 1:21:51 PM EDT
I heard on the news last night that this may very well have been drug related. The brother of one of the victims wasn't surprised that this happened. This was probably a couple miles from the police station on Union Hills. They seemed like they were trying to lose the other car when they should have gone for a high profile location (like the police station) and figure it out from there. The other thing many people miss is that a moving car is a formidable weapon. Learn how to use it to your advantage.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 1:30:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2003 1:31:06 PM EDT by Oslow]
[b]Ok, What do you do if people in a strange vheicle start chasing you on the road after dark? [/b] Tough call; call 911 or just let someone else find the bodies?
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 1:34:20 PM EDT
[img]http://www.klast.net/bond/images/db5.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 1:50:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Corporal_Chaos: I'd guess that the "gesturing" was taken to be "gang" signs, and those in the SUV took that to be insulting.
View Quote
I'd guesx that you didn't read carefully. It was the guys in the SUV that DID the gesturing. ArmedLbr, on what do you base your idea that the victims were a bunch of white yuppies?? Those names could just as easily be another race (well maybe not hispanic or asian, or slavic, or ....)
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 1:51:51 PM EDT
call 911 and drive to the police station
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 1:54:19 PM EDT
First of all, if one of the identified males is the correct person, I have known him since about 5th grade and graduated high school with. He was a pretty good guy, and grew up as a hunter but he did start hanging out with dipshits in high school. It is still a shock to me to see this happen to him...if it is even him, I don’t recognize anyone else’s name there. As far as police station, that didn’t look like their plan, they wouldn’t have gone down Greenway to go to a police station. I can also guarantee there was at least one cell phone in there which they did not call the police on. They wanted to get away without the police; they were probably doing something bad.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 1:55:48 PM EDT
Not to be sexist, or anything (OH Nooooooooo), but: How many driveways are there that you guys can get trapped in? My guess is that just maybe the driver didn't want to mess up the grass. OK, go ahead, FLAME ME. [flame]
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 2:03:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2003 2:03:55 PM EDT by LWilde]
1. Stay out of trouble. 2. If #1 is not possible...[b]SHOOT BACK[/b]...and hope my aim is better than the gangstas. They better be good too. 3. I wonder how long the shooters would have stuck it out if the vics had started throwing lead too...?
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 2:08:20 PM EDT
I don't think this is as random as the newspaper article makes it sound. Something else happened between these two vehicles.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 2:12:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By innocent_bystander: I don't think this is as random as the newspaper article makes it sound. Something else happened between these two vehicles.
View Quote
Well it almost always isn't "random", it COULD be mistaken identity and even if it isn't it could be as innocuous as one of these guys tried to pick up a girl some banger thought belonged to him.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 2:33:25 PM EDT
Um, shoot back. [thinking]
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 2:53:25 PM EDT
Something like this once happened to The Neutral Observer. Several gentlemen from the economically depressed part of town began to gesture and yell at The Neutral Observer in traffic. The Neutral Observer pretended to ignore them until they began following him, at which point The Neutral Observer drove to the local police station and pulled into the parking lot. The gentlemen from the economically depressed part of town, though still agitated, apparently did not have the stomach to pull off whatever they were planning in a police station parking lot. Of course, The Neutral Observer had another trick up his sleeve (actually in his hand, at that point)in case they had persisted. It is possible that the attack on these young people could have been random, such as in The Neutral Observer's case. However, drunk kids being what they are, it is likely they initiated the altercation.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 3:00:46 PM EDT
Pretty much what everyone else said. 1. Avoid trouble as much as possible. 2. Ignore (as much as possible without losing track of the developing situation) what the other guys are doing to provoke escalation. 3. Use the damn cell phone like you always do when you're driving 15 MPH *under* the frigging speed limit while in front of me on one-lane mountain roads. [:P]. 4. If you have to evade, head for a police presence first and a very public place second. Or both - I'm near a college town, so there are more cops set up at night for DUI checks near the bars than at an "established" station. 4. If you can just evade, counter as appropriate. If you have time and appropriate hardware, find a chokepoint, sight in on the entry, then blast the crap out of the vehicle to prevent further pursuit before running like hell. If your time and hardware is less sufficient, get as many discouraging rounds into their passenger compartment as you can without losing control of your own better-be-hauling vehicle. No time and/or no firearm - better to get body damage to your car than, well, your body. Do the best you can to use your vehicle as a weapon. * - Insert profuse praying, profaning and/or soiling yourself, as required. Of course, these were all underaged kids who were, undoubtedly, far safer because they couldn't legally have had handguns in their car for something as blatantly unlikely as self-defense. And no one needs evil "assault rifles" because what are the odds of civilians ever needing to stop another vehicle and/or engage multiple bad guys. After all, the police always know when you're in trouble and can always render immediate assistance during any crime. Right?
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 3:12:50 PM EDT
Make 3 right turns, to confirm you're actually being followed, then drive to a crowded place while calling 911 on the cell phone.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 3:14:30 PM EDT
In AZ, it is legal to open carry a loaded weapon,(pistol, shotgun, rifle) at 18. Someone just has to buy the pistol as a gift and it is legal. Been carrying a pistol since 19, usually leave it in the car when going to public places as to avoid any crap from anyone, but I could. Have to wait until 21 before concealed carry though. I should have lived in the old west so I woulnd't get strange looks...
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 3:22:18 PM EDT
[b]Ok, What do you do if people in a strange vheicle start chasing you on the road after dark?[/b] If possible, evade. If not, lure, entrap, ambush, exhibit superior firepower, and if the perps don't slink off with their tail between their legs at that point, annihilate. But seriously, FWIW, I've experienced a very similar scenario on two separate occasions in my life, both many, many years ago, long before cell phones had even been invented, let alone become the people's defensive weapon of choice. The first instance occurred late at night in a very rural area. After twenty minutes of attempting to evade, in frustration I finally followed the steps above, right up to the point of annihilation. At that point, with the barrel of my Remington 1100 flaring the left nostril of the perp in the passenger side of the vehicle, the driver identified himself as a deputy sheriff and claimed he had a .38 trained on me (dark...interior light off...who knows, maybe he did, maybe he didn't). The car was not marked, however, and he refused to produce identification or a badge. This Mexican standoff ended with one shot being fired over the roof of the vehicle, then quickly replaced even deeper into the aforementioned passenger's nostril, followed by a few choice words from Yours Truly concerning the wisdom of pointing a .38 at a "crazy man with a 12 gauge" (I was 18 at the time, and yes, at that moment quite crazy, quite scared...and EXTREMELY upset). A few months later, at my preliminary hearing for assault with a deadly weapon and battery (both perps claimed they suffered permanent hearing loss), a small county judge reviewed the DA's case and said, rather angrily, "This is ridiculous. If I were this boy, I'd have done the same thing. Case dismissed." (As a humorous aside, he later called me up to the bench and whispered "I wouldn't have used that level of profanity, though, son, that was just plain wrong." Gotta love it.) Oh yeah...why were these bozos chasing me in the first place? They claimed they'd witnessed me making an illegal traffic maneuver earlier in the evening. Were they in fact deputies? Not exactly; they were merely students at a nearby private college, working in the capacity of "deputized campus security guards." In other words, mall ninjas. Friggin' mall ninjas. And, it's worth noting, strictly forbidden from using firearms in the normal exercise of their duties. The second instance involved a chase in broad daylight on 3 major freeways. I was 22 at the time. Again I attempted to evade, and unfortunately again I failed. This encounter ended with me eventually pulling off the freeway and entering a nearby county park, where I knew a security guard with a radio was always present. Unfortunately, after seeing the perp and noting his size and condition (240ish pound black man, clearly wasted on who knows what, probably PCP, screaming "You let that *&#@ dog [I was training police and protection dogs at the time, and this one was about to graduate] out of the car and I'll kick his ass and then yours!"), said security guard, a 110ish pound female, took off running. Somewhere, now long out of sight, though, she must have eventually stopped and grabbed the radio on her hip, because the cops showed up a few moments later. Skip forward six months...the guy draws a PC judge and gets off with nothing more than a small fine for reckless driving. During the trial, when asked why he was chasing me, he stated that I'd cut him off in traffic. Skip forward a couple years...I read in the paper that he beat his girlfriend nearly to death. The good news: He drew a different judge this time and got 5 - 10 in The Big House. Conclusion: I didn't post this to have my tactics reviewed. I assure you I'm no longer young and dumb, and would certainly do some things differently, and utilize different equipment, today. The point is only this: There are crazies out there. Should you encounter them, how you deal with them is up to you. But please don't be naive enough to suggest violent confrontations can always be avoided. That's a ludicrous as suggesting that murderers don't enter good neighborhoods. Likewise, don't expect those in our judicial system to do the right thing, nor those in law enforcement to always come to your rescue. Turn your head, rotate your hips and look down over your shoulder. See that? That's your ass. It's connected to you, no one else. And ultimately it's up to you, no one else, to protect it from harm. cynic
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 3:32:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Corporal_Chaos: Sadly, liberals will see this as a reason to ban guns when in reality it is the reason people should learn proper firearms handling and carry a gun for protection.
View Quote
Ditto.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 4:46:51 PM EDT
twice i have been stopped, completely in the middle of a US highway, both times less than 3 miles from my house, once i was forced to confront the wacko, with only a knife, turns out he was just crazy and we worked it out. the second time, also without a gun, they had me at a dead stop for quite some time and as i was considering what exactly to do, they finally drove off. i now carry a glock .40 and in either of the above situations it would have been at the ready. my dad however, wasnt so lucky once, driving home in a brand new 1986 suburban when cut off by a van full of XXXXXXXX who got out with various instruments like bats and crow bars. they proceeded to head towards him and it took only a S&W .357 magnum pointed at them but not fired to persuade them to leave. most times only the presence of a firearm in the correct hands will deter crime.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 5:00:20 PM EDT
I got my g-string on and I'm lookin' for love... [banana] [lol]
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 5:19:46 PM EDT
PRK: Are you suggesting that I have poor reading skills?[nono] The gesturing I was referring to on the part of the "victims" is their "moving to music in the car." You should put more thought into your post next time; the tone sounded quite rude.[buttkick]
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 5:28:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By darealickt: Maybe the guys in the SUV don't like people imitating that annoying Eclipse commercial. In that case, I would say it is best to not breakdance in the passenger seat of the car.
View Quote
You got that right! I hate ([b]HATE[/b]) that commercial! [img]http://www.click-smilie.de/sammlung/aktion/action-smiley-035.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 5:33:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2003 5:33:48 PM EDT by SuperAlpha]
So then it was a [b]hate[/b] crime?
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 5:38:54 PM EDT
put yourself and all 4 of your buddies behind some cover and shoot the hell out that SUV.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 5:39:49 PM EDT
most times only the presence of a firearm in the correct hands will deter crime.
View Quote
Abso-freakin'-lutely. I wish more "non-gun-nut" people realized this.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 6:39:55 PM EDT
call ahead to you ar15 buddies and lead the mf-ers into a trap?
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 7:04:10 PM EDT
1) Take off all your clothes 2) Get your AR out and fire at least 40 rounds "over their heads" 3) tell the sheriff it was a .22 I've heard this works really well [;)] But, if your not that cool... Driving to a police station works. So does the pit manover, or just running them off the road, etc.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 8:26:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DJSSniper: First of all, if one of the identified males is the correct person, I have known him since about 5th grade and graduated high school with. He was a pretty good guy, and grew up as a hunter but he did start hanging out with dipshits in high school. It is still a shock to me to see this happen to him...if it is even him, I don’t recognize anyone else’s name there. As far as police station, that didn’t look like their plan, they wouldn’t have gone down Greenway to go to a police station. I can also guarantee there was at least one cell phone in there which they did not call the police on. They wanted to get away without the police; they were probably doing something bad.
View Quote
I for just broke the year books and was releaved to find that the one name that I recognived was not in there.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 9:52:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By machaira: I got my g-string on and I'm lookin' for love... [banana] [lol]
View Quote
Download Baltimore by Clintons Band...damn funny. Also, I havnt seen any of this on the news so I dunno any more info if it may have been the kid I went to school with...and I probably dont actually care...if it was the same guy I am sure I will know soon enough either way.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 10:22:57 PM EDT
As usual you civilians like to jump to unfounded conclusions. I would like to hear the other side of the story. It was probably an undercover FBI unit tailing bank robbery suspects but got on the trail of the wrong vehicle, similar to the justifiable shooting that took place last year in Pasadena, MD.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 10:26:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2003 10:35:50 PM EDT by Dave_A]
My solution: A) Drive something faster than a Cavalier... If chased, RUN LIKE HELL... SUVs move like drunken pigs, especially at higher speeds... If on the freeway/highway, I will see exactly how fast a 93 T/A can go (And hope I don't attract police attention. Knowing our Sherrif's dept, they'd be more interested in arresting me for speeding than in the guys I was running from), otherwise drive just fast enough to keep them behind me, and head for the nearest freeway... I do not want to get in a gunfight if I can avoid one (thus avoiding any potential bullet holes in myself or my car)... B) If for some reason the chasers can hang on, then it's time to load up, stop, and hope they don't feel lucky... I have a .45 in my glovebox due to the fact that I routinely carry cash to my company's bank from the store. This would be a case to use it... I've actually had 2 punks try to climb in my car before... Having no gun (no glovebox in my old car (91 Firebird), thus no place to secure a gun except in the trunk) and a clear street infront of me, I decided that running a red light (I was 1st in line, stopped at a light) was preferrable to seeing what they wanted... One of them almost let the doorframe hit his head on the way out, and I left some marks behind, but no damage was done...
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 10:39:09 PM EDT
Some fcks tried to follow me a couple times before so I ditched them.
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top Top