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Posted: 6/14/2003 9:30:29 PM EDT
Found this on Worldnet Daily. These rifles would be nice additions to any collection as well as fun shooters. [red]Now they are going to be scrapped. WE need to try and stop this.[/red} Link to on line petition.[url]http://www.petitiononline.com/M14CMP03/petition.html[/url] Sign it today.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 9:34:12 PM EDT
Signed but Do they really have that many M-14s left? CRC
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 9:35:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 9:40:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22: The way the law is set up, if they [i]were[/i] select fire, they'll [i]always[/i] be considered select fire.
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Yes but aren't they pre-86? CRC
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 9:41:14 PM EDT
Also signed.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 9:46:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CRC:
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22: The way the law is set up, if they [i]were[/i] select fire, they'll [i]always[/i] be considered select fire.
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Yes but aren't they pre-86? CRC
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I think there are tricky laws here. I know PD's can take posession of a Government automatic weapon- and many have sold off their MG's that were transferrable to everyone (Big $$$). But if I am not mistaken, the transferrable status has to do with what form the gun was transferred on. So, while they may be pre-86, unless htey are transferred on a certain form, they aren't "transferrable" to you and me.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 9:47:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22: The way the law is set up, if they [i]were[/i] select fire, they'll [i]always[/i] be considered select fire.
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Correction: The way the ATF reads the law... Literally following the law, for a gun to be a MG it must be immediately capable of firing more than one shot per trigger-pull. MG conversion kits (sets of parts for converting a gun to a machinegun) are also explicitly declared MGs... The 'once a MG, allways a MG' line is an ATF rule, and the ATF can change it/make exceptions if they so choose... Not that they will, but it's 100% in their power... And unlike the AWB, it's DATE OF REGISTRATION (pre-or-post-86), not DATE OF MANUFACTURE that counts...
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 9:54:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 10:36:03 PM EDT
So military weapons are not registered? That means a soldier can say he 'lost' his weapon(on leave?), and it can't be traced back to him from a crime-scene? Odd, if you ask me. [size=6][red]C.M.P. the rifles!!![/red][/size=6] Our tax dollars payed for uncle sam's toy's, and we should get to play with them too, once he is through with em. Only fair if you ask me.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 10:47:23 PM EDT
What I want to know is where do I get one of the $100 CMP M1 Garand rifles described in the article.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 10:48:00 PM EDT
Give me my money back, or give me a rifle!!!! I prefer the rifle!!
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 12:03:28 AM EDT
DAMN!!!!!
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 12:34:58 AM EDT
Stimulate the economy, sell the rifles. Just think if they sell the rifles people will buy them. We will spend money on ammo, Shoot them at the range. We are keeping, Ammo makers and Range Officers in work. Not to mention all the people at hoppes that make the cleaning stuff.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 1:05:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 1:12:35 AM EDT
Bottom line is... you can kiss'em goodbye boys.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 1:56:43 AM EDT
What about getting the receivers demilled? The market could flood with parts kits and a third party could make semi-auto receivers.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 3:30:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SMProud: What about getting the receivers demilled? The market could flood with parts kits and a third party could make semi-auto receivers.
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this is essentially whats happening now.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 4:04:18 AM EDT
Hell, the military units can't even get the rifles and you think we will get them? Comrade Klinton ran a BUNCH of M-14's thru Captain Crunch at Anniston Army Depot some years back. I talked with a guy who was there and he said it sickened him to see what types of usable weapons they put on the conveyor belt. ATF will sing whatever song the politicians tell them to sing. We will NEVER see a "civilian modified" M-14! Don't wait for it. Buy an M1A NOW!!!
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 4:26:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By tattoo:
Originally Posted By Andreuha: So military weapons are not registered? That means a soldier can say he 'lost' his weapon(on leave?), and it can't be traced back to him from a crime-scene?
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military weapons are registered to there branch and unit and the solder who signes it out.. and you just cant take your weapon out on leave with you.if a weapon comes up missing the SHTF big time. last time i saw a weapon come up missing was in AIT and we went to lock down untill it was found.the army doeant mess with that kind of bullshit.
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About the only time a weapon can be 'lost' without somebody getting into a world of shit is during actual combat. Even then...it's one thing if during the firefight/extraction of wounded you couldn't find the wounded guys M16 during the confusion. Re the M14's: I know we gave away a bunch to one or more of the Baltic states (Estonia, Latvia, ?) If these can't be sold on the USA civilian market or demilled & sold as parts sets why not just use them as foreign aid rather than trashing them? I'd much rather see the Phillipines, Lithuania, etc use them then have them become unusuable scrap metal.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 5:46:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2003 5:48:02 AM EDT by Ross]
As pointed out, the ATF rule is just a rule, but odds are astronomical that it will change. The M14s won't be alowed in civillian hands because they are machineguns. It's easier for the govt to just fall back on that than do something to change it. Military M14s aren't registered in the legal sense. They are definately accounted for always though. Unlike many federal LE agencies that loose guns all the time, the Army rarely looses things like these. They are tracked by serial number on the unit's property book, and then by the unit to the individual when they are issued out from the arms room. Loss of a weapon would result in the ending of several careers so they are far more tracked than most things on Earth. We did give a bunch away. We probably won't do that much anymore. The reality of aid is it's not just to help a needy ally. It's also a way to make money for the Military-Industrial Complex, and line the pockets of Congresscritters. OK, that may be a bit harsh, but not far from the truth. The US will give brand new M16A2s to a country now, because not only does that country get it's guns, but the manufacturer gets money, and the Congressman keeps jobs in his area. It doesn't matter that it costs the taxpayer three times more to do it that way than send over old M16A1s. It has more to do with taking your money and spreading it around to everyone. Another great example of this is Afghanistan. We collect up and destroy AKs, then contract and pay Romainia to send new AKs there to arm the Afgahans. Our ally Romainia gets a huge economic boost for helping us out (they do have troops there) and the US taxpayer foots the bill again. Why not just keep all the AKs and reissue them? wouldn't that be cheaper? It's got nothing to do with being cheaper or smarter. It's got to do wtih how much money can someone make off it. Unfortunately, the US govt has ran such a large budget that unless there's several billions invovled, they don't even bat an eye. To Congress it's chump change and not worth dealing with. Easier to just fall back on the lame "rule" excuse. Anyway, I see the best result would be the availability of parts through the CMP. The CMP had looked at building M14's in the past with civillian recievers and US parts, but there isn't enough money in it to make it worth it. Production costs, etc. would be too high. As for if the govt needs a 7.62 rifle in the future, they have a stock of M14's on hand. If there was a need for a 7.62 rifle, they would just spend the millions it would take to make a whole new gun. Afterall, it's not about saving money, it's about spending it. Ross
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 6:15:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2003 6:17:14 AM EDT by natez]
The military keeps meticulous records of its weapons. The difference is that they don't have to register them pursuant to the National Firearms Act. PD's can buy them for about $19 each (which is basically shipping costs). We bought some, and they were arsenal rebuilds put away for storage in about 1974. Essentially, brand-new weapons, with fresh parkerization, new barrels and new furniture. We (read: me, the armorer) had to register them as new Machine Guns on Form 10s, which came back from NFA Branch stamped "For Law Enforcement/Government Use Only," making them Post-86 MGs, unfortunately for everyone. These were some pretty sweet rifles. I wish ATF could be forced by someone in Congress or the Administration to rethink their "once an MG..." position, but it probably won't happen. On one plus note, the M14 was apparently issued down to the squad and platoon level in some Army units in the Iraq war, and the Marines are using them as the M25 Designated Marksman Rifle, so maybe with this increased usage, and increased demand from civilian LE in this country, they will slow down the destruction of these treasures and give us time roll back some gun laws.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 6:19:33 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 6:20:14 AM EDT
They could at least donate the parts to Springfield, so Springfield could build a decent quality M1A.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 6:27:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 6:43:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2003 6:46:19 AM EDT by TRW]
Lets get together and form a corporation. We'll then petition congress and the gov to allow this corporation to "demil" the 300K rifles. We'll dismantle and return the receivers and FA parts to the government and sell the remaining parts as parts kits. If we were dealing with a less stupid entity (the gov), we could offer to pay $100 a piece for the privilage of demilling the rifles and help put money into the government coffers. Because the government is so stupid though, and more used to handing out money than receiving it, I'm sure they would fall all over themselves paying us $100 a piece to demil them. $100 a rifle from the government = $30,000,000.00 Sell the parts kits for $300 each = $90,000,000.00 Total = 120,000,000.00 Holy cow that is a sweet deal!!
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 7:07:29 AM EDT
Signed.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 7:41:59 AM EDT
This is soooooooo PETAesque! People For The ethical treatment of ARMS!
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 8:07:26 AM EDT
Done Deal!
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 9:21:07 AM EDT
Signed.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 10:05:47 AM EDT
done
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 11:14:51 AM EDT
Done
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 11:49:09 AM EDT
Done and signed. If they end up in the CMP, that means I could get one eventually. Bilster
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 4:58:48 PM EDT
Stimulate the economy, sell the rifles. Just think if they sell the rifles people will buy them. We will spend money on ammo, Shoot them at the range. We are keeping, Ammo makers and Range Officers in work. Not to mention all the people at hoppes that make the cleaning stuff.
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This is the most sense I have heard today.
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