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Posted: 6/14/2003 3:05:38 PM EDT
OK, here is the scenario. You and your wife/gf are in a kinda bad area. You have a cell phone and a legal CCW firearm. In a confrontation (mugging gone bad, etc.) your wife/gf is shot. She is hit in the upper chest (alive but with a significant but potentially survivable wound). As she falls the shooter runs around the corner as you draw your weapon. IF you run after him immeidately you have a strong probability of catching him for the purpose of capture or execution. IF you stay you can administer first aid and probably save the life of your wife/gf. You cannot reasonably do both. If you chase the shooter she will not receive critical immediate first aid and could easily die from teh wound, alone. If you stay your description will be only of a black male, t shirt, shorts and sneakers who will be long gone and probably never be caught. There is no guarantee you will catch the shooter if you chase him or save her life if you stay. Which would you do?
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 3:09:39 PM EDT
Stay and save her...pull a Mr. Clark in a week or two.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 3:10:49 PM EDT
Is this supposed to be a dilemma?
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 3:15:55 PM EDT
Stay with the wife, later after she is well, try and find those responsible.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 3:16:33 PM EDT
Legally you can not fire on the perp once he has retreated/broken off the attack. I would stay with the wife, who knows what could happen a week or so down the road......
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 3:16:46 PM EDT
I'd do anything do keep my girlfriend alive....she is probably the only woman out there that can deal with my shenadigins![:)]
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 3:21:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 3:24:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2003 3:27:00 PM EDT by BusMaster007]
I couldn't live knowing these were my only choices. I'd blow my brains out. (OK, not really) I'd chase the asshole and kill him, since you said the wife's wound was potentially survivable. If she did die, she'd know her killer was dead. Happy ending, huh? Edited to add: Yes, you CAN go after the perp. He committed a felony and is fleeing the scene. Bad perp!
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 3:27:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Sukebe: Is this supposed to be a dilemma?
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Sure, thought it was obvious. If you stay and she still dies, you will spend the rest of your life thinking "what if." This is especially true given you had the means to reasonably kill the person. If she dies nothing else will really matter and most people will beat themselves up no matter how responsible to decision to stay was.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 3:29:47 PM EDT
Stay and save the wife. Find the skell later and off him on the QT.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 3:33:13 PM EDT
solution: CCW with a scope?
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 3:34:55 PM EDT
Free at last, free at last. Thank God almighty, I'm free at last.[:D] Stay with the wife/gf. Save her first. Revenge is best served cold.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 3:35:36 PM EDT
Revenge is ok, but critical first aid is more important. Besides my wife would [stick] me if I even thought of running off in a situation as this. I already messed up by putting my guard down and letting her get shot. Way it goes in my mind anyway.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 3:41:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 3:50:32 PM EDT
Definatly stay. Whether she lives or dies, either way the perp will be a hunted man. And I'm not referring to the police.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 3:55:37 PM EDT
No contest, stay with wifey.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 3:57:14 PM EDT
I'd stay, hit 911 and see what happens. AB
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 4:13:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 4:35:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2003 4:41:13 PM EDT by Oslow]
Why was I so slow? Do I have a broken arm? I'd stay with the wife but before calling 911 I'd fire 3 shots in the air. Maybe someone would come after that. (I've called 911 before)
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 4:35:50 PM EDT
Stay with wife. After a suitable number of months have past, pull a Charles Bronson on perps of similar description. You're bound to get the right guy sooner or later.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 4:37:39 PM EDT
Stay. Go with Death Wish scenario.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 4:46:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 4:55:19 PM EDT
Here is my situation. Perp comes up with handgun and tries to rob us. Wifey says OK and reaches into purse to remove wallet (or so he thinks) meantime I am keeping him distracted saying I am reaching into my back pocket to get out my wallet moving hands in wide ark to keep his eyes on my hands. In the meantime, wifey's hand is wrapping around the grip of her gun (yep, she carries too!!!) and blows a hole in the bottom of her purse in the process of blowing him away. Wifey is OK, I am OK, we still have our money and perp won't ever be able to rob anyone again.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 4:55:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2003 4:56:26 PM EDT by nightstalker]
Stay with wife. Not a hard call when it is a hypothetical.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 5:05:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2003 5:14:43 PM EDT by KODoc]
Originally Posted By PsyWarrior: Here is my situation. Perp comes up with handgun and tries to rob us. Wifey says OK and reaches into purse to remove wallet (or so he thinks) meantime I am keeping him distracted saying I am reaching into my back pocket to get out my wallet moving hands in wide ark to keep his eyes on my hands. In the meantime, wifey's hand is wrapping around the grip of her gun (yep, she carries too!!!) and blows a hole in the bottom of her purse in the process of blowing him away. Wifey is OK, I am OK, we still have our money and perp won't ever be able to rob anyone again.
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Here's your situation, Mr.Three Card Monte: Perp doesn't believe your BS line, sees you reach behind your hip, considers it a threatening gesture and shoots you. While he's busy capping your ass, wifey pops the perp with her pistol, later mourns your untimely demise, collects insurance money, and gets a young boyfriend.[;)]
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 5:15:43 PM EDT
I know Southern Justice would make you feel good. Unfortunately, the law would not agree. Since the man is fleeing, he DOES NOT impose an eminent threat to you, therefore, you cannot legally shoot him. Stay with your woman, if the wound is life threatening, at least you can console her and comfort while you dial 911. God forbid if she passes, at least you will be there for her. CCW creates a tremendous responsibility on your part. I was given a big reality bite on what a CCW gives you rights to do and not to do. But, I'd rather be packing and not need it than need it and not have it.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 5:23:26 PM EDT
It depends. Was my g/f nagging me as usual?[BD] Just kidding. I'd stay with her.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 6:01:26 PM EDT
I think some of you have a very unrealistic expectation that the shooter would definitely be found by either you or the police at a later date. Seriously, I think in most cases the last time you'd ever see him would be the rear view as he rounds the corner. That said, no matter what I think most of us would stay with the wife. Even if there was no real chance of survival I don't think anyone would let them die alone or give up even a slim chance to save them.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 6:18:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 45calmike: I know Southern Justice would make you feel good. Unfortunately, the law would not agree. Since the man is fleeing, he DOES NOT impose an eminent threat to you, therefore, you cannot legally shoot him.
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That's pretty funny [rolleyes] it's also illegal for the perp to rob you and shoot your partner.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 6:25:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2003 6:26:40 PM EDT by 455SD]
If you stay your description will be only of a black male, t shirt, shorts and sneakers who will be long gone and probably never be caught.
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[devil's advocate]Why do assume it's a black male?[/devil's advocate] I'd stay with the wife and call the police like everyone else.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 6:41:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: OK, here is the scenario. You and your wife/gf are in a kinda bad area. You have a cell phone and a legal CCW firearm. In a confrontation (mugging gone bad, etc.) your wife/gf is shot. She is hit in the upper chest (alive but with a significant but potentially survivable wound). As she falls the shooter runs around the corner as you draw your weapon. IF you run after him immeidately you have a strong probability of catching him for the purpose of capture or execution. IF you stay you can administer first aid and probably save the life of your wife/gf. You cannot reasonably do both. If you chase the shooter she will not receive critical immediate first aid and could easily die from teh wound, alone.
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As someone with some training, and experience with severe trauma first aid, I would stay with WHOever I was with. There's a good chance I really could help them...
If you stay your description will be only of a black male, t shirt, shorts and sneakers who will be long gone and probably never be caught.
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I will most certainly stay, and use my cell phone to call 911, as Imbroglio always advises, (Imbro, my batteries are always charged!![:D]). However, depending on the place/situation, will dictate my description of the perp.
There is no guarantee you will catch the shooter if you chase him or save her life if you stay. Which would you do?
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I would stay, render aid, and use my cell phone, [red]Ir[/red]regardless of who I was with...[:D] 911 is competent to send aid/body bags.....
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 6:47:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By greenmountainpatriot: Stay and save her...pull a Mr. Clark in a week or two.
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exactly what i was thinking
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 6:48:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By greenmountainpatriot: Stay and save her...pull a Mr. Clark in a week or two.
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exactly what i was thinking
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 6:52:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By lordtrader: CCW is for deterrance and protection. It is not for going vigilante on someone that has wronged you. Try and get a good description of the assailant. This reminds me of my old days teaching martial arts. Students would ask how to get away from a head lock. I would always ask, How did you get there? Or why would you let anyone get you in a headlock, why not stop em before in came to that? Also, knowing that you are in a bad area, you should be aware of your surroundings and be at condition yellow. Why did you let him get a shot off?
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LT, I understand you were a Naval Officer. I don't know how much traveling/living in foreign countries, (and conus), you've done, but as someone who's been around, (Mostly the wrong side of the tracks), I'd LOVE ta sit down and have a drink or two with ya!!! [:D] I really DO wish I could make it down there for whatchamacallit fest....[snoopy]!!!!!
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 6:53:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2003 7:05:21 PM EDT by AimSmall]
Easy choice. Stay with my baby. God would find the innocent blood letter for me... edited to add I would then be about the Lord's business...
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 8:22:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: You cannot reasonably do both. If you chase the shooter she will not receive critical immediate first aid and could easily die from teh wound, alone. If you stay your description will be only of a black male, t shirt, shorts and sneakers who will be long gone and probably never be caught. There is no guarantee you will catch the shooter if you chase him or save her life if you stay. Which would you do?
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Stay with the wife. There's no point in pursuing the scum, it won't help your wife, you're in no immediate danger and there's at least a fair chance you'll wind up shot too. If so, you may be wounded/killed and you're wife will be found bled to death the next morning where she fell. Oh yeah, I forgot... RACIST!! [:D]
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 8:43:15 PM EDT
"why it always gotta be a Black Man?" I would haul ass around the corner, Stop. Take careful aim and slow fire the mag at the perp. 15 seconds, tops. I would probably hit him. Then I would go back to care for my wife and dial 911. No reason that compassion and revenge cannot peacefully coexist. If I choked, and the perp escaped, then I really can't say what I would do. If I got the perp, but my wife died in the meantime, I believe she would understand and approve. Thats all I have too say about that.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 8:47:12 PM EDT
With my luck I'd chase the guy... Rounding the corner I'd figure out too late that all the Perp did was run around the corner and wait for me to chase. Thus I'd get blasted in the face in an ambush and we'd both be dead!
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 8:48:51 PM EDT
I'd save my loved one rather than revenging. You can revenge later but you can't save a life later. Once the wife has been saved, then you could do something...
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 10:28:16 PM EDT
I would have to shoot the womenz in the head to prevent her from reanimating after death. Then I would try to find the guy and shoot to wound him. When he was rendered harmless, tie him up, keep him alive by bandagin his wounds and load him in the back of a truck. Then I would drive into an area of heavy dead infestation where I would then dump him for those things to eat. Thank you.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 10:42:21 PM EDT
Save the wife, then after she's stable and comfortable in the hospital, grab all the weapons, cammie up, track his ass down if it takes 10 years, torture him for as long as it took to find him, then let the wifey torture and finish him off!!!
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 10:44:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 45calmike: I know Southern Justice would make you feel good. Unfortunately, the law would not agree. Since the man is fleeing, he DOES NOT impose an eminent threat to you, therefore, you cannot legally shoot him. Stay with your woman, if the wound is life threatening, at least you can console her and comfort while you dial 911. God forbid if she passes, at least you will be there for her. CCW creates a tremendous responsibility on your part. I was given a big reality bite on what a CCW gives you rights to do and not to do. But, I'd rather be packing and not need it than need it and not have it.
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Not entirely true. Some jursidictions recognize an "immediate aftermath" doctrine extending the use of force to the seconds after the threat is removed.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 10:47:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 10:48:04 PM EDT
the police can always catch the perp another time. do everything to help your wife.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 12:26:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By notack:
Originally Posted By 45calmike: I know Southern Justice would make you feel good. Unfortunately, the law would not agree. Since the man is fleeing, he DOES NOT impose an eminent threat to you, therefore, you cannot legally shoot him.
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That's pretty funny [rolleyes] it's also illegal for the perp to rob you and shoot your partner.
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Right, frickin' ironic isn't it? But if you give chase and kill the perp, that's murder. Don't roll your eyes at the middleman, man. It's the law.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 12:29:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2003 12:32:18 AM EDT by 45calmike]
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
Originally Posted By 45calmike: I know Southern Justice would make you feel good. Unfortunately, the law would not agree. Since the man is fleeing, he DOES NOT impose an eminent threat to you, therefore, you cannot legally shoot him. Stay with your woman, if the wound is life threatening, at least you can console her and comfort while you dial 911. God forbid if she passes, at least you will be there for her. CCW creates a tremendous responsibility on your part. I was given a big reality bite on what a CCW gives you rights to do and not to do. But, I'd rather be packing and not need it than need it and not have it.
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Not entirely true. Some jursidictions recognize an "immediate aftermath" doctrine extending the use of force to the seconds after the threat is removed.
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Interesting, Where can I find more information regarding these laws? Hey, I learn something new everyday....
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 12:38:29 AM EDT
This is a no think one for me. The wife comes first.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 12:46:13 AM EDT
[b]It's the law.[/b] And the heavens trembled... cynic
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 2:26:30 AM EDT
Catch the bad guy. Other people can dial 911 and render first aid, but i'm best equipped to catch the BG. BTW we have a very simular question on our oral board, except its your partner who has been shot.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 2:36:16 AM EDT
Stay with the wife. Chances are good that the POS will be killed later anyway.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 3:15:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: OK, here is the scenario. You and your wife/gf are in a kinda bad area. You have a cell phone and a legal CCW firearm. In a confrontation (mugging gone bad, etc.) your wife/gf is shot. She is hit in the upper chest (alive but with a significant but potentially survivable wound). As she falls the shooter runs around the corner as you draw your weapon.IF you run after him immeidately you have a strong probability of catching him for the purpose of capture or execution. IF you stay you can administer first aid and probably save the life of your wife/gf. You cannot reasonably do both.If you chase the shooter she will not receive critical immediate first aid and could easily die from teh wound, alone. If you stay your description will be only of a black male, t shirt, shorts and sneakers who will be long gone and probably never be caught. There is no guarantee you will catch the shooter if you chase him or save her life if you stay. Which would you do?
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This is a choice?
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