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Link Posted: 6/13/2003 11:38:07 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
So now we've gone from the rules governing lawful arrest warrants to traffic stops, to dog shooting. Please tell us your tale of woe so we can move on.
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Take heed!  Forget about what you *think* you know!  Learn *the truth* here!  

I suspect we have not learned our *lesson* yet, oh impatient one!  
Link Posted: 6/13/2003 11:41:00 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
just because you have an arrest warrant doesn't mean you can enter a home, does it?
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An arrest warrant allows you to search for and seize a person. If the house is the address listed on the warrant, then yes they can come in.  Typicaly a misdemeanor warrant will not allow night service though.
Link Posted: 6/13/2003 11:41:36 AM EDT
[#3]
This will vary by state law, but:

There are four general entry authorities for Peace Officers to make non-consensual entry into a residence:

1) Serving an arrest warrant (in my state it has to be a felony warrant), with reason to believe that the suspect is there. This would mean that this is the residence listed on his license, is the residence he gave at booking, or has been identified by a reliable means or source as the person's residence;
2) When serving a search warrant, and there are two distinct categories, "knock-and-announce," (the vast majority) and "no-knock." No-knock warrants must be specifically authorized by a judge, and lets keep it on track; that is another debate;
3) When in fresh pursuit of a violator, e.g., bad guy runs into your house;
4) Exigent circumstances that a person is at risk of serious bodily injury or death, e.g. a Disturbance call with people screaming inside, a 911 hang-up call with an extensive history of medical calls {this has been the vast majority of the ones I have done; fallen and can't get up, heart attacks, ODs, strokes, etc..}, or other facts and circumstances like reported gunfire inside of a house and so on.

When officers make entry under one of those circumstances, they are limited to making a "protective sweep" of the residence, a search for concealed persons who might represent a safety threat to officers. If they see contraband in plain view, they may seize it, but to go further than plain view, they must have consent, or they can hold the scene and get a search warrant )preferred). In my state, search warrants may be issued to search a residence for a wanted person as well, such as in cases of a misdemeanor fugitive who can't be apprehended by other means, though I haven't seen one yet.

In the case of the officer performing a "knock and talk," you really don't know what the officer is looking for. He may be there serving a misdemeanor warrant, he may be there on a felony warrant. He may be there on a disturbance call. What you present to the officer may in large part determine what the officer winds up doing.

Also, in most states, it is a violation to harbor a fugitive or hinder an arrest. Around here, if there is a person who has a felony warrant in your house, and you know that they are wanted, it is a felony for you to "conceal" them there. An example would be the "knock and talk" scenario. The officer says that they are looking for "John Doe." You say that Doe doesn't live here. The officer tells you that Doe gave this as his residence address two weeks ago. You say that Doe hasn't lived there in months. The officer will usually tell you that Doe has a warrant, and will ask you permission to search the house for Doe. You refuse. The officer tells you that:
a) Doe is a wanted felon,
b) you will be charged with a felony if they find Doe there,
c) They have the authority to, and will search the house, and they were just asking to be polite.

I have done that scenario many times. Sometimes Doe isn't there. Sometimes, the homeowner fesses up. Sometimes, we arrest Doe and the homeowner. Sometimes, Doe bolts out the back door, and if the cover guy back there is slow, we all get some exercise.

A good example of the evolving nature of exigent circumstances is a 911 hang up call I went to at abut 2 in the morning (all of the "good" stories happen at 2 in the morning). There was no history of calls at all the residence. There were no sounds of any disturbance at the residence.

The man who answered the door was extremely nervous. He claimed to be asleep, and said that he was alone. Hey, weird things do happen with telephones sometimes. But, I noticed that he did not appear to have just woken up; he was fully alert. He was also very nervous and kept looking over his shoulder, glancing back to the master bedroom. Then I heard a baby cry. I asked him again if there was anyone else in the house. Lying increases that articulable suspicion that something may be amiss (aside from the fact that 911 calls at 2 in the morning, in my experience, tend to be from a disturbance about 95% of the time).

Another voice (from a small child) cried out "Daddy, what's happening?" By this time, my second unit showed up. I asked for permission to check the house, but he refused. Okay, so what did this JBT do? Did I "respect" his rights, or did I exercise the authority that the courts say an officer has to make entry, under exigent circumstances. I made entry.

I found her in the bathroom. She was almost beaten to death, but that was making him too tired, so he fallen back to choking her, which required less physical effort. She made the 911 call, but he got the phone away from her quickly enough that all the call-taker heard was the line disconnecting. He had been beating her for hours, except when he assaulted her in other ways. If we would not have to decided to make an entry without consent, she would have died.

The point is, there are many ways for an officer to legally and Constitutionally make entry into a residence. When encountered with this, be polite. The officer is doing their job. If the officer is a prick, call IA. I would like to hear the rest of jrzy's story, now.
Link Posted: 6/13/2003 12:21:14 PM EDT
[#4]
OK here it is,
There was a domestic dispute down the street,
(5 houses down),it's 1 am in the morning.
Everyone in the neighborhood heard it and some called it in with the correct street number.
I get a knock on the front door and I see it's a police officer, I open the door and the officer steps forward, I reach behind and pull the door closed and it self locks.
The officer tells me to open Mt door that he has a domestic disturbance here at this address, I said no it's the house down there with the people out front yelling at each other, see?
He tells his partner to stand back and tells me if I don't open my door he is going to kick it in, I hear my wife on the other side of the door now and she says "no you're not!"
I see him rear back and he is really going to kick in my door, if my wife wasn't on the other side and might have been hurt I would have let him kick it in.
I said wait and I opened the door, they (three now) rushed in and told my wife everything was OK now mam, she said "WTF are you doing the domestic is down the street?"

They searched my whole house while the other responding units were having a hell of time containing the drunken asshole down the street who was now whipping some blue ass, he was a big guy and he was giving better then he was getting, the three officers who had the wrong house (mine because of the first cop to arrive was parked out front) were now running to the aid of the other two officers who got the address right.
My house numbers are 6 inches high and shine bright as daylight.

The next day in the chiefs office we heard the tape and it was clear as can be the correct address of the domestic violence call.

The only thing we asked for and received was a sincere apology from the first officer for not taking the time to make sure of where the real call was and for acting like JBT.
I was pissed that they invaded my home and search it because they made a mistake, they acted like they could give a fuck less even after they found they were wrong, it took the Chief of police to demand an apology for us and we got one, I still don't believe it was sincere but at least we got one.
The county prosecutor called us about three weeks later and asked if we needed to have an investigator come out to take a complaint, we let it go.  
Link Posted: 6/13/2003 12:39:02 PM EDT
[#5]
Link Posted: 6/13/2003 12:55:19 PM EDT
[#6]
shotar
I believe you would have taken the time to look down the street and see the people arguing and make the right call that maybe just maybe they had the wrong house.
It still amazes me that there was three of them who fucked up like that, one who had tunnel vision and two more who followed him like a puppy.

The ending to this story is the guy was not beating his wife ,she was hitting him with a broomstick for getting drunk with his buddy when he was supposed to be watching the children all night while she worked the mid shift somewhere.

So when the cops rolled up on him he was already highly agitated and had been hit by the little women,then the cops get out and start shoving him around he let loose on them.
Link Posted: 6/13/2003 12:56:06 PM EDT
[#7]
First, the officers involved absolutely SHOULD have apologized (without any coersion) once they realized their mistake.  I can shed a little lit on why they behave such initially (assuming they believed yours to be the correct address).  

Domestic violence calls are THE single most dangerous and unpredictable call a law enforcement officer has to respond to.  Partly because the parties are already engaged in and prone to continuation of violence if a new party arrives.  Also because in many, if not most, cases, the female spouse will often come to the aid of her husband if the police began taking him into custody, even if that same husband was just beating her senseless minutes ago.  Sad truth.  Wrongly believing your house was the correct one the officer were in their minds further convinced of suspicious activity (giving the nature of the call) when you step out and let the door close, thus sending them a resounding message (in their already suspicious and paranoid minds, again due to the nature of the call) that you have something to hide.  It sounds like they were interested in protecting the victim of a violent crime.  

Again, they definitely should have apologized profusely upon realization of their mistake.  SHOULD and DID are all too often not the same.
Link Posted: 6/13/2003 3:39:53 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
If the cops come over for a "knock-and-talk", the short answer is:  

1)Don't open the damn door.
2)Tell them (through the closed door) you have nothing to discuss with them.
3)Walk away from the door bidding them a good-bye.


Trust me on this--I've seen this work beautifully when executed (the cop was dumbfounded to the point of stuttering and beat a retreat) and I've seen the consequences of when this was NOT executed (20 hrs in the pokey and mucho $$$$$$ for councel).


Edited to clarify that a "knock-and-talk", by definition, means there is no search/arrest warrant--they're just trolling for an excuse to get one so don't give 'em one.
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when i was in grad school the coppers did a "knock and talk" round on the apartment building i was living in

i did exactly what you say above (talk to them through the door, say "i ain't buying", and go back to my movie.

they stood around outside the door, knocked a few more times, and left
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