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Posted: 6/11/2003 2:44:28 PM EDT
ouch!!!! My lower back is really screwed up. Left work early last night, it took about 5 minutes to get in and out of the cruiser. I finally surrendered and went home. Had a 1.5 hour session this morning, he poked, prodded, twisted and zapped me with some electrodes. I was in so much pain after, I couldn't walk. He thinks years of contact sports (hockey and football), and several serious on duty crashes have caught up with me. Sitting in a cruiser all day, and the need to lose 20 lbs is probably also a factor!!!! It doesn't look like he'll let me go back to work till Mon. I have another session tomorrow, and he'll read the x rays. If I lie down, I can't get back up again. Looks like the recliner for me tonight. Any of you guys have any experience with Chiropractors???
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 2:51:50 PM EDT
TRIGGER POINT THERAPY.
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 2:54:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 3:00:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 3:02:13 PM EDT
i have been using chiropractors for about 15 years now.. i did alot of horse-back riding and running when i was a teen - and i could barely move in the morning my back hurt so much, and i was only 15!! so i started to see a chiro and helped me tremendously. It cannot reverse the arthritis that is already in a joint, but what it can do is restore mobility to those joints and help your body return to that state of homeostasis where it can rebound from the effects of living within this ever-changing environment. your job does not do your back any good, but what can you do?? ask your doc about a lumbar support while you drive, as well as exercises you can do to strengthen and stretch your back. it is a common myth that once you go to a chiro you'll be indebted to them forever..not true...i go when i need to - if you keep up on the proper exercise, a chiro adjustment is like changing the oil in your truck...maintenance... understand that the damage already done to your joints is pretty much not going to change, but the ongoing damage can be slowed down some - also inquire about supplements such as msm, glucosamine and chondroitin..losing wt will also help you alot, as you already know.. i happen to be certified in animal chiropractic care - i usually see my patients about 2 or 3 times initially to get them on the right track, then give the owners specific exercises to strengthen and supple, then see them on a maintenance basis, which is different for every animal... most importantly, you should be feeling better with continued care - if you are not, get a second opinion - it's your health - if you are in any way uncomfortable with your treatment...lose the doc and find another... while i am a strong supporter of chiropractic care, discuss this with your MD as well - i feel that heathcare should be a team-effort, use all the resources available to you! good luck..let us know how you are doing!
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 3:21:24 PM EDT
Unless you are seeing a chiropractor for massage (deep fibre or cross), stay away from them. If you have a health related question, see a physician. That means an MD or a DO. Ancedotal stories related on here lack validity and are meaningless. The majority of lower back pain is musculoskeletal and will resolve without any intervention. TT
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 3:50:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mmsig229: I have another session tomorrow, and he'll read the x rays.
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So your letting a guy "fix" and "work" on your back before he even looks at the Xrays??
If I lie down, I can't get back up again.
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Maybe that's because a quack worked on your back....
Looks like the recliner for me tonight. Any of you guys have any experience with Chiropractors???
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Yes...........but I didn't kill him. Sgtar15
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 3:53:46 PM EDT
Btw....do you know what happens when you put pressure on a leaking disk?? It leaks out more...onto the nerve and spinal column. Now how does a chiro know whats the matter with you with out looking at Xrays?. Now accupuncture works great for muscles but not for bones. SGtar15
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 4:04:08 PM EDT
TT - what we have said here lacks validity and is meaningless?? why would you say that?? resolving?? actually, your body is just compensating, and obvious disease is not apparent..yet - HOWEVER...i can assure you that there is dysfunction of the joints/vertebra and muscles involved and will catch up sooner or later... that is what chiros are trained to do - recognize and treat dysfunction before it progresses to disease... of course there is a need for allopathic medicine...but i have observed its limitations in certain cases and other therapies, such as chiropractic certainly has its place in medicine.
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 4:10:40 PM EDT
a good friend of mine is a successful chiropractor. he beleives sincerely in what he does and has some very satisfied patients. there may be some quacks out there, but it is possible to be helped. i think the key is to know the limits of what they can do. ask lots of questions. if you don't feel comfortable or dont trust the answers, bail out or ask for clarification.
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 4:16:50 PM EDT
As usual, both good and bad advice.... I have used chiropractors for years. Mine is not a quack. He laughs about some that claim to be able to cure anything from athletes feet to kidney stones. He says all he can do is manipulate the spine to relieve muscle spasms. And that is exactly what he does. I don't have problems often. Maybe once every 6 months or a year. But when I do, a few trips to Dr. Brewer and it is like I am a new man. When I am okay, he tells me to just come back if I ever have another problem. He doesn't try to "milk" it for extra income. If someone hasn't had back problems, they don't know how extremely painful it can be. Chiropractors are life savers when you are in pain.
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 4:24:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/11/2003 4:25:30 PM EDT by David_Hineline]
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 4:27:19 PM EDT
I am a Chiropractor. I am assuming the twisting etc. were orthopedic exams with some physiotherapy thrown in. Sounds like you are in good hands, but if you have any questions or he throws some ten dollar words at ya, drop me a line. I'll give ya the straight skinny. Good luck, John
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 4:30:32 PM EDT
I love my chiropractors!!! I swear by them!!! They have helped me immensely!!! They do all the highschool athletic teams here at our school as well. Husband and wife team and they rock!!! If you are in OK let me know.
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 4:31:49 PM EDT
[size=3]Chiropractors 90% marketing 10% medicine[/size=3] !
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 4:36:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TitaniumT: Unless you are seeing a chiropractor for massage (deep fibre or cross), stay away from them. If you have a health related question, see a physician. That means an MD or a DO. Ancedotal stories related on here lack validity and are meaningless. The majority of lower back pain is musculoskeletal and will resolve without any intervention. TT
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So are you an MD now? Evaluated chiropractic in a long term study? Or just spouting personal bias? Due to by spine being out of whack (I condition my abs but not my back, doing some lifting messed it up) I spent thousands of dollars on doctors tests. None of them could tell me exactly what was wrong. I even had surgery because of it. None of the doctors suggested I visit a chiropractor. After nearly a year, I decide to go to a chiropractor on my own. Turns out my spine was out of whack in the exact areas that would trigger the sensations the doctors tried to treat me for. Within a few weeks the pain subsided, and in a few months it was gone. Since then when I've injured myself playing golf and the injury didn't improve, I went to the chiropractor first. They fixed the problem. Unlike the doctors whose only solution is medication and rest, they solve the problem. Chiropractic won't do everything, but it will help in many cases where doctors will either be clueless or recommend surgery. Just avoid the chiropractors who try to sell you 'supplements' as part of your therapy.
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 4:47:18 PM EDT
I'm a hospital CEO and a 20 year RN. I was referred to a chiropractor by an MD on my staff after herniating a disc. I was able to avoid surgery and regain a degree of pain free living that surgery and pills would not provide. Specifically, I had a focal herniation of L4-L5 with a large fragment. L5-L6 was bulging. The neurosurgeon wanted to operate the day I saw him. The chiropractic visits went on for three months- sometimes twice a day. Chiropractic care works- it's like any other form of health care. Choose your practitioner wisely, ask questions, and educate yourself as to the specifics of any diagnosis. Anyone who casts general aspersions without a factual analysis is a quack.
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 4:52:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 5:16:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/11/2003 5:25:21 PM EDT by KODoc]
There has not been a single well-controlled study which has demonstrated ANY physiologic change with chiropractic. 80% of low back pain is musculo-skeletal in origin of which 80% of that pain will resolve spontaneously over time without intervention of any kind. So you can go about your daily activities, see a PT, a DC, or a witch doctor and it will amount to an exercise in killing time which is usually all that it takes. Focal disc bulges or herniations can result in soft tissue pain of a non-radicular nature as can chronic or extreme contraction of muscle tissue, giving rise to myofascial pain syndrome. This can be effectively treated with deep fibre or cross fibre massage. If unsuccessful, trigger point injections are warranted. I have treated more chiropractic botched cases than I care to think about, including a patient with a pulmonary carcinoma with resultant upper extremity pain that the DC manipulated the hell out of while missing a life threatening diagnosis. The reason chiropractors take out full page ads in the yellow pages and push vitamins as if they were medicines and an assortment of devices is that they are recognized by the vast majority of state licensing agencies to be so deficient in their training and abilities that they must be kept in check. Consequently, marketing and hollow promises take the place of legitimate theraputic modalities. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. If a DC limits his practice to theraputic massage I'm all for it. Anything more than that save your time, money, and health and go home and relax or see a physician. And that does NOT mean a surgeon for your first MD visit. KODoc,MD Diplomat, American Board of Anesthesiology Diplomat, American Board of Anesthesiology, subspecialty certification in Pain Managagement Diplomat, Americian Board of Pain Medicine
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 5:26:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/11/2003 5:30:53 PM EDT by Troy]
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 5:35:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By KODoc: I have treated more chiropractic botched cases than I care to think about, including a patient with a pulmonary carcinoma with resultant upper extremity pain that the DC manipulated the hell out of while missing a life threatening diagnosis.
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And I've seen stats posted here on AR15.com on the number of deaths caused by physicians. Conclusion reached: All physicians must be bad. And a gun owner once shot somebody, so all gun owners must be bad.
When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
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When all you are is a MD, everything looks like an MD problem. Too bad those MD's cost me a years worth of pain and thousands of dollars in medical bills because they only thought their hammer could fix my problem. Too bad they hated chiropractors so much they couldn't have even suggested I might want to go to one for a consultation. But they got paid, anyway. But I didn't get better with them. I would bet a great deal of money that many MD's who disparage chiropractors would endorse them if a chiropractor became part of their practice and they could profit from it. Every dollar you spend at a chiropractor is one less dollar you could be spending at a normal MD. Most of the medical community's hostility towards chiropractors isn't about medicine at all, it's about money.
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 5:44:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Troy: My dad really wanted me to become a chiropractor, but given the circumstances, I'd have been crazy to do so. I'd rather be what I'm apt to be in a few months: an out of work IT specialist. -Troy
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Troy- It sucks that there are chiropractors like that. Given the results I've experienced with it, I wish the bad apples would be weeded out. Right now the only way to find a good one is to either go first or get a recommendation from a friend. One I went to wanted to sell all the supplements and wacky therapies he had (I really don't think I need to be electrically 'stimulated' as part of my therapy). I dropped him and never went back. The last chiropractor I went to was great. I told him what happened, where the pain was, and he said it would be about 6 sessions. I think it was five and I was all better. Just 10 minutes or so a session, no supplements, no weird therapies, just adjust me and send me on my way. Maybe this world needs a good independant chiropractor referral and review web site. That's something an out of work IT guy could do in his spare time ;)
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 5:54:43 PM EDT
[b]KODoc, There has not been a single well-controlled study which has demonstrated ANY physiologic change with chiropractic.[/b] With all due respect you need read up on your research, JMPT for one. [b]Before throwing stones:[/b] The U.S. health care system may contribute to poor health or death. According to Dr. Barbara Starfield of the Johns Hopkins School of Hygiene and Public Health, 250,000 deaths per year are caused by medical errors, making this the third-largest cause of death in the U.S., following heart disease and cancer. I would venture to say you know very little about Chiropractic. [b]I have treated more chiropractic botched cases than I care to think about[/b] I have treated more botched Low back surgeries than I care to think about! Some 200,000 patients undergo lumbar spine surgery every year. Unfortunately, 20-40 percent of patients will fail to gain the desired outcome. In fact, 10 percent of patients will be worse after the initial surgery. Not to get in an internet spat with you but what you have spouted off is nothing more but a very biased and despite your credentials an un-educated opinion. If you would like to talk further, please IM me. Cordially, John
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 6:13:18 PM EDT
I am a chiropractor myself. I find KDoc and Mr T's opinions insulting but typical of the ignorant and uninformed. As far as marketing KDoc, we market because of people like you who go out of their way to add their 2 cents worth. If we are going to talk about screw ups, I will give you some of mine that have come from your field in pain management. I have one patient who came to me after having an emergency craniotomy after a pain management MD didn't fully close an incision after the implantation of an interspinal stimulator. Two days later her brain sank from the loss of cerebrospinal fluid and ruptured vessels in her brain. Another patient I currently have has had her lung collapsed not once, but twice, by two different pain management doctors after they injected to far into a trigger point. How many people die each year from prescription medication and medical errors? Check your statistics, I think that it is close to 80,000- 100,000 each year. One of the big five leading causes of death. More than a Vietnam war each year. As far as research, there is documented evidence for acute low back pain and chronic cervical acceleration decceleration trauma (whiplash) that chiropractic care is the most effective. In addition there has been alot of work done in Europe done by osteopaths and medical doctors to show validity for manipulation for a variety of ailiments, but this does not get much publicity because manipulation is cheap compared to how much you can whore out insurance for surgery, anesthestia, medication and operating room privelages ( about $1500-3500 for a 15 minutes procedure).In all actuality, less than 20-30%of medical treatments and drugs are actually supported by a research study that doesn't have alterior (ie monetary ) motives. Chiropractic is not still in the dark ages. Yes there are some charlatans out there but that is the same in every profession. There are good and bad chiropractors, there are good and bad politicians, good and bad gun stores, and yes even good and bad medical doctors. Ask yourself KDOC, if you would trust your health or your family's health to every MD you have met. If you say yes, you are a liar. I get referrals from MDs, I refer my patients to MDs (cardiologists, primary care, neurologists, surgeons etc), order about 2-4 outside diagnostic tests a month when needed, and sometimes even call up my patients MDs to see if they can get meds to help with their condition. Chiropractic is no longer chicken feathers, horseshit, and manipulations will cure cancer. Stick with your chiropractor, make sure he answeres all you questions and make sure you are on the same page in regards to your treatment objectives (ie. relief from pain, restoring function,home exercises etc). He has probaly looked at you radiographs the first day, but is waiting to show them to you. Don't listen to any of the haters on this board or anywhere else, because you know the old saying, opinions are like assholes and this board has a few. Sterotypes and misinformation is the reason why a pre-ban colt costs us non LEO $2500!
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 6:13:27 PM EDT
I go to one. However, I think of him as a massage girl for the bone in my back. He gets some flex back in there, and moves things back in line. It is enough for my neck pain. Will it cure cancer? No, but it makes my neck feel good for a few weeks. I am on my third one now (moving around some) and I told the last one I didn't want any of their 'you are gonna die cause the MD twisted your neck in the birth canel' crap, or how it would cure the flu. He chilled out, and has a good customer.
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 6:43:57 PM EDT
Just got done watching The Recruiter, I've missed all the fun. Sgtar15, thanks for the kind words, I know how much you care about me. This is a Dr, well recommended, and not a quack!!!!He took numerous x rays, and will go over them with me tomorrow. Today's visit was mostly a evaluation, I'll know more tomorrow. I'll keep you guys posted. Time to put another frozen bag of corn on my back, and put in another DVD!!!!
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 7:01:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bastiat: So are you an MD now?
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Now and for several years.
Evaluated chiropractic in a long term study? Or just spouting personal bias?
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Spouting professional knowledge. TT
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 7:04:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mmsig229: Just got done watching The Recruiter, I've missed all the fun. Sgtar15, thanks for the kind words, I know how much you care about me. This is a Dr, well recommended, and not a quack!!!!He took numerous x rays, and will go over them with me tomorrow. Today's visit was mostly a evaluation, I'll know more tomorrow. I'll keep you guys posted. Time to put another frozen bag of corn on my back, and put in another DVD!!!!
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Good luck Brother. I hope your back is better soon. Remember though everybody with back problems knows a frozen bag of perogies is what you use for a sore back. not corn [:D]
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 7:18:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/11/2003 7:20:07 PM EDT by dc899]
Peas work well to, however make sure to have a wet towel between you and the veggies and don't let it on for more than 15 minutes continuously (depending on your build). You could possibly develop cellulitis if you have a metabolic or circulatory disorder. Icing longer than 15 minutes can induce a huntington response ( vasodilation) which would be the opposite of want you want to achieve. You can safely ice after having it off for 10-15 minutes again. I usualy tell my patients to ice 15 minutes on the hour then have it off until the hour begins again, because it is easier to remember.
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 7:51:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TitaniumT:
Originally Posted By bastiat: So are you an MD now?
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Now and for several years.
Evaluated chiropractic in a long term study? Or just spouting personal bias?
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Spouting professional knowledge. TT
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Now I see the motive for the bias. Money spent on chiropractic is money out of your wallet. Just be careful. I hear you MD's are much more deadly than any guns ever produced! At least that's what I've read.
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 8:07:42 PM EDT
Motor_City_Tactical I sure hope you meant to say L5-S1 was bulging because if you have an L6 you have more problems than you think.
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 8:16:40 PM EDT
I'll weigh in as well. I never put much faith in chiropractic. Thought they were a bunch of witch doctors. I've suffered for many years from muscle spasms in just about every part of my body. I've taken Soma with codeine for way too long and it never did much, couldn't work under the influence of the stuff either. Parafon Forte & Flexeril are placebos as far as I'm concerned. I decided to give a Chiropractor a go one day. As was usually the case, I had to almost crawl from the car to the office. 45 minutes later I walked out of the office. In 20 years, I have never had that kind of relief, never, under any drugs! Oh how I love that shock thereapy, EMS is the technical term. I told my regular MD about my experience, she hates Chiropractors, sent me to a physical therapist. Guess what? The PT did the same thing as the Chiropractor. I got my MD to write a scrip so I could get my own shock box, a rehab stimulator. When I get crippled up, I get the wife to stick the pads on and I'm able to get un-bent enough to make it to the Chiropractor for additional therapy. If you think Chiropractors are quacks, you deserve to suffer, hell, it's not my pain. I haven't taken a single muscle relaxer med since my first visit. My wife was skeptical and it took me several years to convince her but after she suffered about 4 weeks with neck pain & stiffness and the drugs weren't doing squat, she gave it a try and her eyes were opened as well. Now don't get me wrong, I don't think Chiropractors can cure colds, flu, infections etc. I don't put much in the herbal medicine/holistic stuff but your body is a combination of chemical, biological and mechanical devices and Chiropractors can fix the mechanical part of you. I know not all Chiropractors are the same, the woman chriro that I have is alot like a PT. I don't go all the time, I go when I need to which is when the pain is unbearable. Furthermore my BC/BS insurance covers up to 20 visits a year, if it were quackery, they wouldn't pay for it. And just a point of history, Thomas Edison so believed in Chiropractors, that he had a room at his Ft. Myers home for his personal Chiropractor complete with table & all.
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 8:28:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 8:59:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/11/2003 9:00:55 PM EDT by dc899]
Troy, I am assuming your father is a straight chiropractor? Just because he doesn't beleive in doing therapy (stim, ultrasound, heat, cold, traction etc.) doesn't make chiropractors who do a quack to avoid. I took classes in it in college, have passed boards on it, and I have had 4 years of therapeutic moidalities in undergraduate in athletic training. So because you don't think that is traditoinal chiropractic, someone who thinks his dad is in a carney profession, I am a huckster because I use adjunctive therapies that I have been taught how to use? WTF? As far as vitamins, big f-ng deal. If you don't want them, grow an scrotal sac and tell the chiro you are not interested. I give my patients recommendations how to improve their health. If they want it fine, if not, no big deal. For Christ sake, how many people have taken a certain vitamin because of Mr. GNC, aunt Bessie, or the roid head at the gym told them so? Why shouldn't somebody with an education give recommendations?
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 9:27:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/11/2003 10:23:53 PM EDT by Troy]
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 9:31:18 PM EDT
I was no believer of chiropractic medicine. After a car accident (head on crash on the interstate) in 1997 I had a whiplash with all the related symptoms. Again, I didn't believe in chiropractors and to some part still don't BUT I have to admit that they cured my neck. In fact my health was deteriorating more and more after the accident until my girlfriend (wife today) insisted that I try a chiropractor. She had to drag me over there but I was in pretty bad shape and so I relented and went. The improvements that I made were dramatic. Took about 6 months to get things straightened out but it started helping immediately. Just got lucky? Maybe... if you believe in coincidences. :) LRdrvr
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 9:37:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By KODoc: KODoc,MD Diplomat, American Board of Anesthesiology Diplomat, American Board of Anesthesiology, subspecialty certification in Pain Managagement Diplomat, Americian Board of Pain Medicine
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Hmm... I have a strange feeling that Sgtar15 and I will be picking your brains on a regular basis ! [:)] (my discs are only herniated -- his are also leaking -- do you take ammo for payment? [:D])
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 5:58:28 AM EDT
Wow, what a mud slinging time this has turned into! [rolleyes]. mmsig229 I tell you this, my mom broke her back 25+ years ago, she broke the disk at the bottom of her neck about 15 years ago. Toss in a surgery on her wrist to fix a pinched nerve and arthritis you'll see that she's pretty effed up. She saw some quack ass Chiropractor for a year or so and never got any better. The nshe told that guy to piss off and started going to the new guy in town. Guess what, she's fairly mobile and relatively pain free! It's like anything else, do your research and try to find the best person you can. JMHO YMMV.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 6:27:31 AM EDT
Diet and exercise! Drink more water. Lose the extra weight you're carrying around, get DAILY exercise and watch how much processed, pre-packaged, high sugar, high fat, high preservatives, high artificial coloring foods you eat. DRINK MORE WATER! Stop drinking coffee, soda, tea, Kool-Aid, beer etc, at least cut down on all of the above. Your body starts slowly DYING if you do not get at LEAST 80 ounces of WATER every single day. Exercise in the morning, before you go to work.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 7:10:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 7:25:44 AM EDT
Just my honest opinion here, But after a head on collision at 40+ mph, me and the passengers in my car (not my fault) all had to go to the ER. We went, got x-rays nothing broken, and they give me Flexiril (muscle relaxer) Napyrson (Industrial Strength Aleve) and Hydrocodone (pain relief) . They didn't do shit. The flexiril made me sleepy (which by proxie made me feel better, sleeping that is) Hydrocodone is allright, but pain still seeps through. Two weeks later I still felt like I had an Iron plate welded to one side of my spine, just could not move it. Long story short, went to a recommended chiropractor, at the expense of the other guy in the wreck, and I was skeptical as hell, but the [b] first day [/b] after an alignment and I walked out of the office turning my head and moving, It straight up 100% no bullshit felt better. stopped taking the meds, and went 3 times a week, and Ill tell you psychosomatic or not I would recommend it to anyone with a problem that is suited to chiropractic.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 8:13:05 AM EDT
Most everyone in my immediate family were hostile to chiropractic, especially when my mother's sister became one, however, we all use chiropractic to relieve our occasional backpain. It works. However, It's not a cure all and any chiropractor who tells you they can cure cancer, heart disease or whatever else is lying to you. Chiropractors are experts in the relationships between muscles, bones and nerves. What they can do is help relieve muscle spasms and misalignments that put pressure on nerves and cause pain. They can diagnose chronic musculoskeletal problems, relieve the immediate symptoms and help patients work out ways of avoiding that pain in the future. Usually what causes us backpain results from our lifestyle. We injure our backs because we contort them into impossible positions, or lift poorly, or even lift properly, but lift and carry too much weight too often, or we put ourselves through cycles of inactivity and overactivity that strains the system. We also challenge our systems with poor nutrition. An MD can diagnose these issues and help patients with them...if they have time, but as many MD's are complaining today, time is the one thing that the HMO's don't pay them to spend on patients. Testing, sure, medicines. sure, but time? Nope. The capitation model of compensation forced down general practitioner's throats rewards them for numbers, and not numbers of visist, but numbers of discreet patients on the physician's roster. A physician makes the most money when they have a stable of healthy patients who they only see once every souple of years. Doctors with a lot of elderly patients, small children or patients with chronic health problems, lose money like it's water flowing under a bridge. Chiropractors tend to operate on a fee-for-service basis that allows them to spend time with their patients and address the lifestyle issues that can cause backpain, and this places them in a unique position to advise in those areas. So, by all means, go to your chiropractor as a supplementary health care provider, but keep your MD in the loop. The best possible model for care is to have your MD and your chiropractor working as a team to address your problems. As far as anaesthesia is concerned, I love it at the dentist and for surgery, and it can make life livable while recovering from injury, but as a daily dietary supplement to control chronic pain? I'd rather not. If my pain is chronic, then I've got an underlying condition that needs to be addressed, all the anaesthesia is doing is masking the symptoms of injury or illness. Bottom line however, is that the patient must be their own advocate. You've got to educate yourself, ask questions and in general, be a pest. Your doctor is not going to call you in a week and ask how you are doing, you will have to contact them and tell them "Doc, I'm still effed up!" Another thing that is totally buggered in the traditional medical industry is the fact that you can't get a slot on the doctor's timecard without 4-6 weeks notice. I had a knee injury a few years back. It took several days to get an appointment to my general practicioner, they refered me to an Orthopod who took 6 weeks to schedule me in, by that time the symptoms had gone subtle on me and it was impossible to explain them properly nor to convey how debillitating the problem was when it occured since, after six weeks of rest, the injury was subsiding some. The guy makes a diagnosis based on what he sees and sends me on my way. I get a recurrance and have to wait 6 more fucking weeks to get on his dance card. Meanwhile my conditioning is going to hell in a hand basket due to forced inactivity and I am categorically NOT getting any better. I can't actually get to see a qualified doctor fast enough during flare-ups to get proper diagnosis. I also can't get proper scans done fast enough either. By the time I get worked into the MRI schedule the inflammation has subsided. What was I eventually told? "Well, if we had gotten this scanned on the first occurance we could have avoided all this scarring on the tendons that will probably cause you trouble for years and years. Why didn't you come to us sooner?" Because it took 6 weeks to get on the first doctor's schedule, he under-rated my problem the first time through, then it took another 6 weeks to get in to see him again, then I switched doctors because the first guy didn't take me seriously, then I had to wait 6 weeks to see you, then it took over a month to get on the MRI schedule, then another 4 weeks to get in to have you tell me if we had done the MRI right away I'd probably be fine by now. It is just not possible to get access to the kind of treatment you need unless you are bleeding out, or are a professional athlete. Friggin' Pedro Ramirez can get to the same doctor in an hour or less when his shoulder bothers him a little and gets on the MRI schedule within an hour after that, but Iceman has to wait over two months.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 8:19:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 8:27:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Troy: know you don't want to hear this, and I don't blame you if you disagree, but the crap that the collages are teaching is wrong and irrelevant at least half the time. And most people who "steer" the profession via their involvement in the colleges have no desire to have their methods examined by scientific method. Testing might (gasp!) DISPROVE that the products (be they techniques or hardware) they are selling to student DCs are worth something. The colleges are full of Drs. who are pushing their own products and agendas, which isn't unlike the medical profession, except that there is no oversight at all. -Troy
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hmmm...Palmer-West?? BTDT
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 9:16:33 AM EDT
update...Just had my second visit, I feel much better. The Dr. reviewed my x-rays. The discs and alignement on my lower back looked very good, spacing ect were fine. The pain was from a tightness from the muscles,and ligements which are attatched to the lower spine. This is caused from my weak abs, which are screwing up my lower back. This can be fixed by diet and exercise. Now my neck..this news isn't as good. Instead of having a curved neck (normal) mine is almost perfectly straight. He thinks this was caused from whiplash from my several on duty crashes. The bones are degenerating faster than normal because the weight from my head isn't being distributed properly. This Dr. was also a personal trainer for many years, he's setting up a diet and exercise program for me. Another session tomorrow morning, then back to work mon. I may have to come back for a "tune up" every several months or so. but overall, the news wasn't too bad. PS excuse my spelling, spell check isn't working on mom's computer!!!
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 10:54:30 AM EDT
Glad to hear it went well! Remember, it's YOUR body. You have a RIGHT to make your own choices about health care. Make informed choices, question your health care practitioner, and always put your interest first. Do not allow the economic realities of the mainstream physicians to dictate your ability to discern what is right for YOU...
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 2:07:57 PM EDT
My chiropractic story.... I was have abused my body from the time I was 10 years old and at this time I was 29. My neck and lower back hurt and I was having muscle spasms. I went to a Ortho and he took some X-rays and said we can operate next week. I don't want a operation say I ask of options, NONE he stated. I tried to heal myself with stretching and the like. The pain would never go away completely. So off I go and check out the operation I need and I find out the success rate, complication rate. I got to do something. I don't like what I read, but while I am at the library (pre Internet boom 1989) I meet this cute little chicky pie. she works for a Chiropractor not to far from work and she says "Come on down". I did, He did X-rays and started me out 3 times a week. 2 weeks later I was worse than ever, he took X-rays again. He backed off treatment to once a week. 1 month still hurt worse than when I went in. I went back to the ortho ready for a operation and he performed X-rays again, It showed I had a broken vertebra pressing on a disk that was causing my pain. The ortho pulled the old Xray and it didn't look like it was there before I went to the chiroprator. The Ortho went on and on about it. The chiropractor broke it I am sure. Did he do it on purpose NO. Should he have figured it out, HELL YES. I wore a brace for awhile and then went to a rehab clinic for awhile. The pain comes and goes but I can live with it. The newer types of operations have me asking about going under the knife/laser. Plastic has come along way. In europe they are replacing problem disc's instead of fusing bone. GOOD luck mmsig229 I am sure they all arent bad. Oh the girl I meet in the libary, she moved in.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 2:13:58 PM EDT
[b] Had a date with a Chiropractor this morning....[/b] Do you date any other medical people? [img]http://www.click-smilie.de/sammlung/mittelgrosse/medium-smiley-124.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 3:21:27 PM EDT
No, my wife won't let me!!!just got back from the gym, started my new regiment today. Did some low impact work on the elliptical (SP?)treadmill.....
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 3:23:39 PM EDT
Alright guys, I didn't know this thread would go so far, so I will expand on my first post. TRIGGER POINT THERAPY. The pain you most likely feel is "trigger points" in your muscles that cause 1) Tightening of the muscle, 2) Shortening of the muscle which pulls on the associated joints, 3) Pain and fatigue in the muscle, 4) "Referred pain" in other areas of the body in proximity to the trigger point. You can do a search on the Internet to get more info on trigger points, or get medical books on them. Trigger points are fairly well studied and they occur is specific points in your muscles. They can be caused by stress (repetitive movements, bad posture), injury, or you may just be prone to develop them, like me, because I have fibromyalgia. The treatment for trigger points is application of pressure on the trigger point itself. This hurts a bit, but the long term relief of pain is much worth it. Chiropractors will NOT tell you this! They will tell you all about nerves and bones and your spine, and do not mention that 99.9% of the time the pain you feel is muscle related. Trigger points in the muscles of your back make it "feel" like something is pinching, and they try and convince you that your bones are all out of place causing this. When a joint is manipulated, the muscles around that joint relax for some reason. Thus, chiropractic manipulation can help dissolve trigger points. For some people, they go away and do not return. For others (like me) they come back within a day or so. So instead of showing you how to (easily) perform self-treatment via pressure massage, the chiro has you come in for regular "treatments". Some guys around here charge $50 per visit. What a freaking racket. Some of you may not believe me, but let me tell you, trigger point therapy must be experienced to be believed. There is not enough space here to tell you everything you need to know so do yourself a favor and get a book on the subject. I regularly visited a chiro for about 3 years. My neck would get so bad if I didn't go, I just kept going. Guess what, I haven't been to a chiropractor in the last 8 months AT ALL and I feel great. For anybody who lifts weights, check out Stuart McRobert's "Beyond Brawn"... he relates his own experience with trigger point therapy, allowing him to continue to lift weights after being injured. That's all for now guys... believe it, or not. It's up to you.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 3:41:01 PM EDT
Saw a chiro once or twice before my back was really, really messed up(2 ruptured discs) I didn't feel a difference. It was like PT, but with a little bone crunching. The sawbones who worked on my back did a really good job. I am fairly thin for my height,6'5" 220, but I also stay very active and that is key to healing properly. I walk and use my back.I don't really baby it anymore as you need to keep the scar tissue loose. Scar tissue is what causes 95% of the pain post-op per my neuro. The guys and gals having severe back problems are usually overweight and inactive and no intervention, chiro or surgical is going to help if you don't stop stuffing yourself with twinkies and butter sandwiches while watching Dr. Phil.
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