Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 6/10/2003 6:13:43 AM EDT
I have 3 small sons (7,4,1) and, to properly provide for their future, the wife and I are getting our will together. If something should happen to me, I have (2) nice AK's, an FAL and an AR to bequeath to the boys when they are of age. Of course with a due amount of mags and ammo as well. My problem is that I have no one to give the guns to to hold for my boys. My wife may well sell them and my relatives are not pro-gun. I have a couple of friends whom I would consider. The person needed would have to be VERY serious about the 2nd Amend and faithfully hold the firearms in trust for the boys - promising to not sell them, abuse them or hand them in in the event of a ban of some kind. This person would have to track down the boys when they reach the age of 21 and ascertain whether they are of sound mind to own such firearms. Also ensure that they are not gun grabbers, liberals, or 'loyalists'. If they are competent to own such firearms, said person would give the firearm to my son and convey the seriousness of the issue of firearms ownership and its grave meaning within the context of the preservation of freedom. In short, this person would have the very serious and solemn duty to pass liberty onto the next generation. I understand that this is alot to ask. It may require breaking the law, it may require research to track them down, it may require resisting the urge to sell them, it may require time to ensure that the boys have not been coopted by gun grabbers. etc. In short, it might end up being alot of work.
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 6:19:14 AM EDT
Are you just making a statement, or are you asking for volunteers?
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 6:22:25 AM EDT
I am actually looking for volunteers. I know that I don't know any of you beyond this board (except for one or two) but I figure this is a good place to start. Lots of good people of honor here.
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 6:38:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 6:40:04 AM EDT
A lawyer can hold them in a trust, and do all that you need in that regard. You'd have to pay for that though. The education part is up to you to do now. Perhaps a video will would also help. Or, bury them and give the kids a treasure map on their 21st birthday.
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 6:55:08 AM EDT
CassidyGT, I am not in that boat as I come from a very pro gun/hunting family. I have three daughters, 7, 9 and 11 and all very active outdoors with one starting to get into competitive rimfire matches. I offer help if you need. BTW, dont die until your boys give you grandsons, then you wont have to worry! Good luck friend and happy hunting. JAG
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 6:55:36 AM EDT
Lots of good people of honor here.
View Quote
It may require breaking the law,
View Quote
Well, which is it?
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 7:11:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Lots of good people of honor here.
View Quote
It may require breaking the law,
View Quote
Well, which is it?
View Quote
The concept I am trying to convey here is pretty straightforward. Like helping slaves escape to the north - that was breaking the law and yet it was a very honorable thing to do. Or trying to hide Jews from the Nazis - also breaking the law but very brave and honorable. What Honor requires us to do and what the Law requires us to do are often not in alignment.
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 7:42:28 AM EDT
Cassidy, whatever else ya may do, do the video. Good idea. I think maybe I'll do it too, (the video). BTW, you mean your wife would sell the guns, even knowing your wish's the boys have them???
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 7:57:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Lots of good people of honor here.
View Quote
It may require breaking the law,
View Quote
Well, which is it?
View Quote
The legal thing and the right thing may be at odds. These types of situations are common in our imperfect world. CassidyGT gave a couple of examples.
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 8:03:29 AM EDT
CGT - I wonder why you brought this issue here? You have some friends, MM comes to mind, that would fill the bill. You should be talking to your friends about this, not the AR board.
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 8:20:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By CassidyGT:
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Lots of good people of honor here.
View Quote
It may require breaking the law,
View Quote
Well, which is it?
View Quote
The concept I am trying to convey here is pretty straightforward. Like helping slaves escape to the north - that was breaking the law and yet it was a very honorable thing to do. Or trying to hide Jews from the Nazis - also breaking the law but very brave and honorable. What Honor requires us to do and what the Law requires us to do are often not in alignment.
View Quote
Good point.
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 8:38:31 AM EDT
You may want to consult a lawyer about establishing a trust in the boys names now and placing the firearms inside of that trust with you as the trustee. If you truly never plan on selling these guns the legal headaches shouldn't be too significant (as far as pulling them out of the trust). Once they are in the trust your sons become the legal owner of the property, which is then held by you on their behalf. I am not sure what the legal ramifications are with your sons being a beneficiary of a firearm at their age, but as long as their interest doesn't become possessory before they reach the age of majority then you should be ok. The trust should be established with two contingencies. The children will not be entitiled to possession until your death, after reaching the age of 18(or 21). The trust should also provide for the appointment of another trustee if you should pass before the children are of age. Hopefully, your oldest son or wife could administer the trust. Once the guns are in a legal trust no one would be able to sell your sons' birthright. It is important that you consult a lawyer to establish this trust properly and ensure the proper handeling of your estate. It would be a good idea to wrap any other estate plannning into the legal work and get all of your affairs in order. SBG Note that the above post does not constitute legal advice on the part of the author and should be used for informational purposes only.
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 8:42:17 AM EDT
Sgtar15
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 9:08:32 AM EDT
The idea of a lawyer and legal documentation is intriguing, but what if the firearms are outlawed in the coming years? Unlikely, but worth planning for in my estimation. A lawyer would certainly hand over the firearms and/or alert legal authorities no matter what the document specified.
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 9:15:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By CassidyGT: The idea of a lawyer and legal documentation is intriguing, but what if the firearms are outlawed in the coming years? Unlikely, but worth planning for in my estimation. A lawyer would certainly hand over the firearms and/or alert legal authorities no matter what the document specified.
View Quote
IMHO, you don't invite the MAN into your life. Running this through the lawyer system is doing just that. You are trying to set things up for 15~20 years in the future. NOTHING is certain. We'll talk.
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 9:15:06 AM EDT
Sgtar15
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 9:22:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 9:33:47 AM EDT
if I ahd a bigger safe and a mortgage, no doubt I would try my best to help you out. passing down our legacy to future generations is what has ensured that we all are who and what we are today. so often however we loose this as how many WWII unregistered war trophies are still in the family? how many guns etc. are sold off by executors with an anti-gun agenda? my Dad doesn't have and good guns, im sure of that. he rarely shoots at all, but I will be damned if anyone other than my littler brother ever sets their hands on his Ruger .22 pistol. That was the first gun I ever shot and means more than anything to me. The idea, as prefposterous as it may sound that it may be outlawed is still a contingency that I will discuss with my father once he gets a bit older. as sad as it is I have to make plans over a gun that probably cost him $150 bucks in the seventies. sad. good luck CassidyGT, I know there are many fine souls here on the board that are more than willing to take your offer as a challenge and as their part in defending and ensuring our freedom.
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 9:42:35 AM EDT
Cassidy, I can put you in touch with my Brother in PA. He just bought a house (has plenty of space), and he keeps (tax paid transfer to him) my full Auto FNC for me and held on to some other stuff for a while also. He has safe space (will have more shortly as he is picking up my Canon safe). Hopefully it is something you will never need to use--ideally, the kids hit 21 and they get the guns and it never happens. To do it legally, you need to will the guns to someone specific, and have a written agreement with them that they will hold them until your children come of age. A lawyer (there are a few on here) may even be able to rough out a "trust" document of some kind assuming guns are legal when you pass away. If they are not, it may take a gentlemens agreement (hopefully it is not like California where you cannot will them to anyone). AFARR
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 10:31:19 AM EDT
i would aviod the legal route as it would lead a paper trail for anoyone coming after said guns. a gentlemans agreement with someone you trust should be all that you need.
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 10:31:57 AM EDT
that is after all how most people operated before there were [b]lawyers[/b]
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 10:40:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 10:45:35 AM EDT
Ah yes, the time before lawyers. When was that again? Oh, and who enforces a "Gentleman's Agreement" (read Contract) if someone breaks it? A LAWYER. SBG
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 12:43:03 PM EDT
CassidyGT has a common issue and one that I am facing myself. Being "behind the lines" in the PRK, it will be illegal for my children to inherit most of my guns as is. I have my own contingency that I think will work well. (but if I told you, I'd have to kill you![:D] ) I would avoid the lawyer route if at all possible as less paper trail the better. However, you may not have much choice. Essentially it looks like you are asking a non-family member to entrust your guns to. Without some kind of document, your (anti-gun?) family may view this person as a "theif" when he comes to take your guns because it was your "dying wish." The other option is, make out a legal document for the current political situation. If no one will seize your guns, like here in the PRK, then go by the law. When and if the laws suddenly render your weapons "illegal" upon your death (a-la PRK) then you change your options on how to get them to your kids after you die. If you die before the law changes and before your kids turn 18 then that person is obligated to take additional measures to ensure they get to your kids. Time to start the GPS program of caching the weapons. Good luck. F.A.S. Out
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 3:29:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DScott: Or, bury them and give the kids a treasure map on their 21st birthday.
View Quote
I'm not sure how serious you are about this option, but I would warn that here in So. Calif. people's SHTF supplies gets discovered every once in a long, but nevertheless... I would do this option if it is your last and only.
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 3:59:04 PM EDT
As for lawyers and such, if you die, without a will, the courts typically will get involved, unless you're survived by a surviving spouse (who is presumed to take everything). You don't need to specify each gun by name. You can simply say, all of my firearms are to go to X upon my death. You may have an agreement with him, or a handshake to give them to your kids, but if you want things held in trust for your kids, the court will have to inventory these things so that your kids can sue this person if he should, say, sell the guns to pay of his credit-cards. (The court may inventory everything anyway, with or without a will so that, for example, your estate's debts can be paid off). There's obviously no legal way to make an illegal contract not to give up the guns in the event of a ban.
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 4:01:02 PM EDT
Can you set up a trust in your state to hold property?
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 5:04:21 PM EDT
A trust to hold, disburse, manage property can be had in every state. The problem is that most any legal mechanism to transfer property involves putting oneself on the radar. Why can't you talk to your wife about this situation and explain to her what you want? I mean, she is supposed to be your best friend, most trusted advisor, etc.
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 11:19:38 PM EDT
My .02... My Dad started me shooting/hunting when I was [b]VERY VERY[/b] young (read a woman would divorce you these days if you did it that young!)... You said the first two are 7 & 4. [i]IF[/i], IMHO, you are [b]insuring[/b] their mentality to be like minded to yours, [b]AND[/b] you have picked your friends so that birds of a feather drink beer together, your solution is within reach. Your 7 yr old is already old enough to understand, shoot, respect firearms and cherish the generational value they can hold. "[i]This was my Dads gun[/i]". My Dad still has one that was my Grandpas, who got it from HIS Dad. I knew about that rifle from the time I Was a little kid, and knew the intrinsic value of it. The 4 yr old is old enough to shoot (supervised) and begin to learn responsibility and the proud American pro gun culture. I will assume you may wanna at least wait a Birthday or two on the baby (read able to piss on his own and without diapers)[;)] My Dad instilled my charachter into me, despite my antigun Mothers wishes. She fought it kicking and screaming, he won (easily). A man and his son and a gun are a natural thing of beauty. I gues I would liken it to the [i]freshness commercial[/i] between women. You give them the mentality, frame of mind and charachter. Even if you meet your maker tonight, make sure the oldest one has it, and passes it on to the others. Your BEST friend can be the holder, and a God Father if the worst comes to fruition. Keep It Simple...Cassidy...Its right there.... May the force be with you....[8D]
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 4:17:19 AM EDT
CassidyGT, Are you sick? Do you have a terminal illness? Did you commit a Felony? With children that young, it would stand to reason that you are also young yourself, and wouldn't want to ship off your guns! Balming
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 4:57:03 AM EDT
I am 37 and, as far as I know, in good health - mind and body..... well the body anyway. I was just thinking about what would happen if I got into a car wreck tomorrow or something crazy like that and it dawned on me that my boys would probably never get the guns I bought for them. I thought I should do something to ensure that they do get them - no matter what happens.
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 5:14:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By CassidyGT: if I got into a car wreck tomorrow
View Quote
Since you work in Baltimore, it's more likely you'll get shot.
Top Top