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Posted: 6/9/2003 11:46:51 AM EDT
RANT ON/// Well, I just started buying parts to put together a "weekend toy" and they got and pass this. [url=http://www.citizensvoice.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=8258577&BRD=2259&PAG=461&dept_id=455154&rfi=6]New Emissions Requirements[/url] Although somewhat common, I wanten to build a smallblock Chevy/S10 conversion. I dont really want to put a stock 350 in it out of another vehicle. I was goign to but a rebuildable for <$100 bux and go somewhat wild on parts. How am I supposed to get an EGR and a charcoal can working on a non-emmisions engine. If I do this I am pretty much stuck with a stock carb and a stock intake. Converters are no big deal, I can just put 2 free flow cats on the exhaust. This Pisses me off. This ain't goign to do anything about the friggen 80's Dodges that drive around burning oil, stinking everything up. SO I guess my only options are to build pre-75 fullsize pickup (not much radical stuff you can do there, the came with 454's, I sure as hell can't afford a 502) I'm sure not going to build a ricer, I hate them things. Mustang 5.0?? everybodys bot em. what else??? ///rant off Thanks for listening.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 11:58:47 AM EDT
Wow, so this new law means that the rest of the state has to move into the 21st century like the cities? Wow, next thing you know, they'll want to take your still away.[lol]
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 12:02:47 PM EDT
Uhhh .. Whats a still[;)]
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 12:07:31 PM EDT
Go with a MODERN EFI conversion like the Holley setup. Way more airflow than any carburator PLUS you should not need an EGR system. EGR's purpose is to lower the combustion temperatures so not to generate too much NOx. Modern EFI systems with 3-way converters do not need EGR as the catalyst reduces the NOx to N2 and O2 while it oxidizes the CO and HC to CO2 and H2O. The key here is the sensitive mass airflow sensor coupled with the exhaust gas oxygen sensor. You will have to know how to use a computer but since you are here, this should be easy for you. Trust me, once you go EFI, you will never go back. On the charcoal canister, this is no big headache. Its just a system of vents and valves. During operation, atwo valves open and a small bleed of air passes over the canister and is ingested into the intake manifold. Shut the engine off and the valves close, forcing the fuel tank to vent through charcoal. With EFI, there is no carb bowl vent.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 12:09:56 PM EDT
AS I recall from when I lived in NJ, they had a rule that the vehicle had to pass the emission standards set for the chassis, not the motor. Makes it tough to street-rod a newer vehicle, but I had a blast showing them the DRAFT TUBE, rather than the EGR on my 1962 Ford Falcon. They just about crapped. This was before I did any work to it and it had a major case of blow-by.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 12:37:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Keith_J: Go with a MODERN EFI conversion like the Holley setup. Way more airflow than any carburator PLUS you should not need an EGR system. EGR's purpose is to lower the combustion temperatures so not to generate too much NOx. Modern EFI systems with 3-way converters do not need EGR as the catalyst reduces the NOx to N2 and O2 while it oxidizes the CO and HC to CO2 and H2O. The key here is the sensitive mass airflow sensor coupled with the exhaust gas oxygen sensor. You will have to know how to use a computer but since you are here, this should be easy for you. Trust me, once you go EFI, you will never go back. On the charcoal canister, this is no big headache. Its just a system of vents and valves. During operation, atwo valves open and a small bleed of air passes over the canister and is ingested into the intake manifold. Shut the engine off and the valves close, forcing the fuel tank to vent through charcoal. With EFI, there is no carb bowl vent.
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DO you meen a TBI setup? If I have a fairly big cam will this mess up the ECM? This setup also requires O2 Sensors, right? Can I run dual exhaust with O2 sensors? FatMan; That sounds similar to to Colorado.. When I was looking into doing a 302-Ranger conversion, they told me I would have to use an engine that was same year or newer than the Ranger, (wich pretty much left me with finding a Mustang or a Lincoln Mark7
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 1:22:08 PM EDT
Go with a 1995 LT1 and PCM, get a copy of the LT1Edit software, install all the visible emissions stuff and disable it in the software. My 800 HP blown 396 strocker passed IM240 down here in the Philly suburbs, so I doubt you'd have a problem if you can pass the visual.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 1:30:42 PM EDT
Well, I was gonna throw my hat into the ring here, but it seems to me that you already got the answers you need. good luck, and keep us posted as to what you end up building.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 1:37:22 PM EDT
Get 2 engines, a real lame and clean burning one and a racing motor. Install the lame one, get your emissions sticker and then install the racing motor.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 2:02:18 PM EDT
Non-certified configurations on post 1967 motor vehicles are illegal, per the Clean Air Act amendments of 1990. However, I'm not here to be a nazi. If you want to get away with it, get an Edelbrock EGR intake, and use whatever carb on it that you want. There should be plenty of stuff out that that's emissions legal for the smallblock.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 2:05:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bob243: DO you meen a TBI setup? If I have a fairly big cam will this mess up the ECM? This setup also requires O2 Sensors, right? Can I run dual exhaust with O2 sensors? FatMan; That sounds similar to to Colorado.. When I was looking into doing a 302-Ranger conversion, they told me I would have to use an engine that was same year or newer than the Ranger, (wich pretty much left me with finding a Mustang or a Lincoln Mark7
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In answer to your questions, No, TBI is [i]so 1980's[/i]. You still play Pac Man? Just kidding. Modern cars can run pornographic compression ratios WITHOUT EGR as the modern 3-way cats takes care of all the NOx, the pollutant EGR reduces. Holley makes some TBI systems which can eventually pass most smog testing but its easier with the multipoint systems. TBI can work up to 500 Hp, let me know if you are streeting 500 ponies in an S10. That would be a hoot! Can you haul some 'shine for me? Just kidding. You will need 2 O2 sensors, one on each header BEFORE the cross-over (ideally in the collector). Don't even THINK of putting one in the cross-over alone as it will never work right. These things need a good flow of exhaust to run with any stability. Holley has all the stuff. Might cost you a bit but the ROI is worth it. You could spend years jetting a carb, burning valves and replacing pistons just trying to get it right AND get the best mileage. Or you spend the bucks now, buy a laptop to get real time data and be rocking from the start. Plus when you go on a trip to Pike's Peak, you usually don't need to adjust, but you could WITHOUT OPENING THE HOOD!
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 3:13:58 PM EDT
Several years ago Harris co. which surounds Houston began emission testing. There was no way my Mustang with a carbureted 392 stroker would pass the visual let alone a sniffer. Then I found out the state of Texas considers propane to be a clean burning alternative fuel that will exempt a vehicle from both test. I spent about $1200 on the parts, and once I had it tuned properly I wondered why I didn't do it sooner. With 10-11 lbs. of boost from the blower,it made 410hp at the rear wheels, no emission test, and only $13.25 for a sticker. NO emission components, and is slightly cleaner at the tailpipe than it was stock. What more could you want?
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 4:50:45 AM EDT
fook....hank hill would be so proud...
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 7:18:34 AM EDT
HEHE, yeah. One of the tech. inspectors at Houston Raceway Park wanted to know where I connect the gas grill. Had not thought of that. Maybe I should change my sig line to "Propane and propane accessories".
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 7:20:45 AM EDT
Bobby, it clean burning propane and propane accessories. Its God's fuel.
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 8:26:12 AM EDT
Another trick: When you go in for inspection, make sure there's only a gallon or 2 in the fuel tank. Cut the gas to about a 1:1 with MTBE. You'll pass. As soon as you pass, fill the tank up with gasoline ASAP.
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 8:39:54 AM EDT
SO I guess my only options are to build pre-75 fullsize pickup (not much radical stuff you can do there, the came with 454's, I sure as hell can't afford a 502) I'm sure not going to build a ricer, I hate them things. Mustang 5.0?? everybodys bot em. what else???
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Do a web search for maximum torque specialties. They make adapter kits for BB CAD to just all sorts of stuff, including Chevy trucks. 500 ft/lbs and 400 hp stock. Cheap and easy to find in junkyards. Cheap to build. Fell like I'm beating the horse on these today, sorry if I am but THEY RULE!!!
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