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Posted: 6/9/2003 8:52:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/9/2003 11:25:37 AM EDT by CassidyGT]
Well, we had a fire two doors down last weekend. Gutted the house. No one was home and no lives lost. Turns out it was kids from the development up the road firing guns (type unknown) at the guy's dune buggy parked next to the house. Several rounds hit the house also. Apparently they set off the gas tank. New house, family just moved in last month after building was complete. So now I have to worry about punk kids shooting from the woods behind my house. They come from the big development up the road. My problem is, I have three little ones (7,4,1). The two older ones often go out back to play on their big swingset/playset thing. Now I am scared to let them out to play. I can just see some evil hellspawn with his .22 shooting my son just for the fun of it. I am thinking about changing SOP in my house to require an adult carrying a slung AK be with the children out back at all times. Maybe this would provide deterrence from said punk kids. If they see that, then maybe they will understand that there will be return fire. We live in the country in South Central PA so guns are not the bogeymen they are in other more suburban areas. Thoughts?
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 8:58:49 AM EDT
That sucks. How do you know that the shots were fired from kids up the block?
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 9:01:44 AM EDT
Well its a sad state of affairs when you have to consider keeping a slung long arm on you when you're out with the kids. I'm not really sure what I would do. Is a fence out of the question, a nice, tall wood fence? What's the local PD saying/doing about this? Can you legally return fire at those distances? Since you would basically be returning fire and giving covering fire and not IDing your "target" you could be opening yourself to legal issues. I think a fence might be the best idea. Legalities aside as far as your weapon, I don't know what kind of distances you're talking about but perhaps something with an optic would be a better idea? M4 with an ACOG?
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 9:02:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By otto-nyc: That sucks. How do you know that the shots were fired from kids up the block?
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I don't really. That is the word in the 'street' so to speak. Could be anybody I suppose.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 9:02:07 AM EDT
South central PA... Where? I'm from Littlestown. Sucks man...... Put on the Ghillie and wait for them with a cell phone. When they start shooting call 911 and tell them you're under fire! and if they're not there in 3 minute your going to return fire. DG84 P.S. when cops hear the word "guns" they come running.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 9:04:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By THellURider: Well its a sad state of affairs when you have to consider keeping a slung long arm on you when you're out with the kids. I'm not really sure what I would do. Is a fence out of the question, a nice, tall wood fence? What's the local PD saying/doing about this? Can you legally return fire at those distances? Since you would basically be returning fire and giving covering fire and not IDing your "target" you could be opening yourself to legal issues. I think a fence might be the best idea. Legalities aside as far as your weapon, I don't know what kind of distances you're talking about but perhaps something with an optic would be a better idea? M4 with an ACOG?
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A fence would be nice - but way out of my budget. The woods go for about a 1/4 mile then give way to farmland.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 9:05:27 AM EDT
I'd call the cops. I wouldn't sling the AK around your prop. If these kids are dumb/crazy enough to shoot up a dune buggy and house, I wouldn't put it past them to play "sniper" and choose a target that looked like an armed combatant. Some recon might be in order. Do you have a ghillie suit?
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 9:05:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By doorgunner84: South central PA... Where? I'm from Littlestown. Sucks man...... Put on the Ghillie and wait for them with a cell phone. When they start shooting call 911 and tell them you're under fire! and if they're not there in 3 minute your going to return fire. DG84 P.S. when cops hear the word "guns" they come running.
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I am east of Red Lion - if you are familiar with that area. The ghillie sounds like a good idea - but that scenario could take a looooooooong time waiting.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 9:07:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By NoVaGator: I'd call the cops. I wouldn't sling the AK around your prop. If these kids are dumb/crazy enough to shoot up a dune buggy and house, I wouldn't put it past them to play "sniper" and choose a target that looked like an armed combatant. Some recon might be in order. Do you have a ghillie suit?
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No ghillie - but I have body armor. Maybe wait for the hit and charge their position? On second thought - that might be a dumb idea.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 9:07:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By doorgunner84: P.S. when cops hear the word "guns" they come running.
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And when they show up and see a guy in a Ghillie, Guess who is going to be the first guy face down on the ground with a boot in his back and a AR behind his ear. (But that is only after they stage a block away, wait for someone to bring in a shield, and the Sgt. says to go on in.)
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 9:08:22 AM EDT
A slung AK would be a deterrent, but I think I would personally choose a gun with a scope, if for no other reason than to let them know that you can reach out and touch them even if they're in the woods. Make sure it looks military though. AK, AR, etc...
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 9:08:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By R-32:
Originally Posted By doorgunner84: P.S. when cops hear the word "guns" they come running.
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And when they show up and see a guy in a Ghillie, Guess who is going to be the first guy face down on the ground with a boot in his back and a AR behind his ear. (But that is only after they stage a block away, wait for someone to bring in a shield, and the Sgt. says to go on in.)
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Truer words are hard to come by.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 9:09:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Johnphin: A slung AK would be a deterrent, but I think I would personally choose a gun with a scope, if for no other reason than to let them know that you can reach out and touch them even if they're in the woods. Make sure it looks military though. AK, AR, etc...
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My AK has a nice Kobra on it. Menacing, yet effective.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 9:17:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/9/2003 9:17:58 AM EDT by doorgunner84]
Originally Posted By R-32:
Originally Posted By doorgunner84: P.S. when cops hear the word "guns" they come running.
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And when they show up and see a guy in a Ghillie, Guess who is going to be the first guy face down on the ground with a boot in his back and a AR behind his ear. (But that is only after they stage a block away, wait for someone to bring in a shield, and the Sgt. says to go on in.)
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OK, Ghillie up and wait armed with a Cell Phone and a video camera.... that should clear your name.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 9:24:47 AM EDT
No shit, I'd be ready with a mag full of blanks and a megaphone. When I heard shots in the woods, I'd bump fire the whole mag off and then use the megaphone, loudly advising the miscreants that the NEXT time they hear gunfire, it will be AIMED at them. I really doubt you'd have any more problems on THAT front. It's quite possible that you would be able to get the unofficial approval of the police to do this, too.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 9:33:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/9/2003 9:36:06 AM EDT by 45ACP_Marine]
Good idea above. I say guillie up with rifle, cell, and video. Come close to ya, jump up and scare them. If they start shootin round your kids, shoot back. Rounds are impacting around your charges. Enough legal reason to kill!
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 9:33:47 AM EDT
Cassidy- I'd be shooting back the second one round came close to me if i could spot the shooter. So my ass would probably get into a helluva lot of trouble. Though my reaction is based on being a "random target" on a number of ocasions in my life. But don't forget to call the police so they can be there to do the AAR. They are good at those as they show up after the action has happened.(Not bashing thats just the way it is.) Do what YOU gotta due. It's your duty as a parent to make sure your children are safe and your family is safe. If that means supervising the youngsters while armed so be it. If they're dumb enough to shoot at a dune buggy and start a house on fire for shits n' giggles they're dumb enough to shoot at a person for the same reason. If they shoot at you, they are an armed attacker and the best way to defend against an armed attacker is to be armed yourself. Unless your a liberal than you give them what they want, cower in fear while praying that they don't kill you, than like a good little lib you call the police to come protect you, which they have no obligation to do.(again not bashing, ask the courts they will say the same thing)
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 9:37:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By photoman: Cassidy- I'd be shooting back the second one round came close to me if i could spot the shooter. So my ass would probably get into a helluva lot of trouble. Though my reaction is based on being a "random target" on a number of ocasions in my life. But don't forget to call the police so they can be there to do the AAR. They are good at those as they show up after the action has happened.(Not bashing thats just the way it is.) Do what YOU gotta due. It's your duty as a parent to make sure your children are safe and your family is safe. If that means supervising the youngsters while armed so be it. If they're dumb enough to shoot at a dune buggy and start a house on fire for shits n' giggles they're dumb enough to shoot at a person for the same reason. If they shoot at you, they are an armed attacker and the best way to defend against an armed attacker is to be armed yourself. Unless your a liberal than you give them what they want, cower in fear while praying that they don't kill you, than like a good little lib you call the police to come protect you, which they have no obligation to do.(again not bashing, ask the courts they will say the same thing)
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VERY well said!!!
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 9:43:04 AM EDT
I have a quick question. If there are reports of gunfire and a burned down house with bullet holes in it, the where in the hell are the cops. You're area sounds "hot" to me. They take the initiative to patrol the hood but if there is gunfire in the burbs they say to hell with them.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 9:43:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/9/2003 9:44:45 AM EDT by Clay-More]
Originally Posted By NoVaGator: I'd call the cops. I wouldn't sling the AK around your prop. If these kids are dumb/crazy enough to shoot up a dune buggy and house, I wouldn't put it past them to play "sniper" and choose a target that looked like an armed combatant. Some recon might be in order. Do you have a ghillie suit?
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I'd call the cops too. Call them every time you hear the little peckerheads shooting and log it. You might need the info in case they end up killing/wounding someone.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 9:48:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Clay-More: I'd call the cops too. Call them every time you hear the little peckerheads shooting and log it. You might need the info in case they end up killing/wounding someone.
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Call the cops? This is S-central PA, NOT South Central LA! I'm taking this story w/ a grain of salt. Methinks the troll is stirring up $hit right now. I hope I am right, because I would hate for a father of three kids to have to worry about their children catching a bullet.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 9:51:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 9:56:46 AM EDT
Pungi stick lined death pits? Look for their shell casings and dig a big hole. [devil]
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 9:56:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 45ACP_Marine:
Originally Posted By photoman: Cassidy- I'd be shooting back the second one round came close to me if i could spot the shooter. So my ass would probably get into a helluva lot of trouble. Though my reaction is based on being a "random target" on a number of ocasions in my life. But don't forget to call the police so they can be there to do the AAR. They are good at those as they show up after the action has happened.(Not bashing thats just the way it is.) Do what YOU gotta due. It's your duty as a parent to make sure your children are safe and your family is safe. If that means supervising the youngsters while armed so be it. If they're dumb enough to shoot at a dune buggy and start a house on fire for shits n' giggles they're dumb enough to shoot at a person for the same reason. If they shoot at you, they are an armed attacker and the best way to defend against an armed attacker is to be armed yourself. Unless your a liberal than you give them what they want, cower in fear while praying that they don't kill you, than like a good little lib you call the police to come protect you, which they have no obligation to do.(again not bashing, ask the courts they will say the same thing)
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VERY well said!!!
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Thank you. As i said thats just the reaction of a multiple time "random target".
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 10:14:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Johnphin: A slung AK would be a deterrent, but I think I would personally choose a gun with a scope, if for no other reason than to let them know that you can reach out and touch them even if they're in the woods. Make sure it looks military though. AK, AR, etc...
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This sounds pretty good to me. I often make sure I'm seen packing something evil. Over the years, the neighbors have not only 'gotten over it', but expect it of me. A month or so ago, my neighbor mentioned that I hadn't been seen in the front yard packing, so I did some yard work armed. I don't do this every day or week, but every few months. Just enough to put word out on the street that 'the guy in that house will shoot your ass'. Oddly enough, the local LEOs don't really say too much, and the idiot do-gooder down the street has even STFU. Between that and occassionally being seen chasing a kid down the street with a beer in one hand, and a running chain saw in the other, the area stays pretty quiet.(The kid is a neighbor's kid and he's in on it. He tips over the trash every so often so I WILL chase him.)
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 10:24:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 10:27:10 AM EDT
Ghillie Suits? Patrolling your property with an AK?? I know as a result of those kids your neighbors house burned down. But I don't think their intention was to torch the house, just shoot at the dune buggy. Some kids do stupid things without thinking of the consequences. My bet is that the kids were shooting the dune buggy, caught the house on fire and said, "Oh shit! We caught the house on fire!" They probably all swore each other to secrecy, but it's only a matter of time before one of them cracks and spills the beans or word gets out among the other kids. I think the house burning down was probably a wake-up call to them to not shoot at things that are not your property. They are probably wracked by guilt right now. I'm not trying to excuse them, but strange as it seems I don't think they had any malice in shooting the dune buggy either. I had friends in high school who would do dumb thing like shoot car windows with BB guns, drop rocks off of overpasses, things like that. You just do dumb things when you're younger and now that they've seen the possible consequences, I doubt they'll keep doing it. Plus I still think chances are better than 50% that they'll get busted sooner or later for the house fire. -Nick Viejo.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 10:28:45 AM EDT
If this is really true, it sounds as if the problem may solve itself sooner or later. These little punks will get themselves in serious trouble and will find themselves sent off to one of those places where they have drill instructors for parents! And if they are so bold to be doing this kinda stuff, they are short timers. Either they will end up dead or in boot camp. So in the meantime I wouldn't take any drastic action. Just do what you have to to protect your kids and start asking around the neighborhood and see if you can determine who the shooters were. If word "is on the street" that some kids did this, then there will also be word as to who did it. A little investigative work followed by a report to the local police might be enough to end it. Afterall, this isn't your problem, it is your community's problem. If these little punks are getting this out of control, you are not the only one feeling this way. See to it that your neighbors become involved. You might even want to set up a community watch type program. Just remember, don't do anything drastic. These are just a handful of punk kids who probably have parents that are a bunch of dopeheads who never bother paying attention to what they are doing. This isn't Al Qaida you are dealing with here. The idea of ghillie suits, etc sounds cool. But you aren't the military so don't try to act as such. Band together with the folks in your community and use the louder voice of a group to get the cops off their asses and to work on this case. You don't have to go it all alone. And remember, if this is dealt with in a proper manner, it won't continue for very long. Either they will be caught and punished, they'll get scared and stop, or someone will catch them in the act and beat them to bloody pulp!
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 10:36:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TomJefferson: As for the vandalism attack, I don't know what to tell you other than if you are there, shoot back and don't miss. As for the kids taking target practice out back unless you have solid proof that they were indeed the vandals, I would pack my handgun in my belt or holster and go out and talk to them the next time they shoot. Explain your concerns and even give constructive comments on how they should improve their safety. Let them know you are a shooter and enjoy the sport. The handgun will let them know you know what you are talking about and also cut down on back talk as well as give an unsaid consequence to irresponsible behaviour. You will most likely hear, wow, we didn't know and there's a good chance you will leave on good terms. It's better to make allies than enemies anytime. These guys have the potential to become responsible shooters. I would rather lead them down that path than force them down the other.
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Aww, the voice of reason, calm and sane. Now why do you have come and destroy a perfectly good thread like that huh? [:D]
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 10:44:06 AM EDT
Whats the distance to your house from the woods?
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 10:47:03 AM EDT
Take a step back and re-assess the situation. If it's the kids, N. Viejo is probably right. Making the move from popping a car to humans is a HUGE step, you are saying what the anti's want to hear. I got a gun and shot cans and paper, then small animals and vandalizing property which led me to humans. It was the black evil rifle's fault! Sounds like to me the "kids from the development up the road" is still just a rumor and it's good you pointed that out. Just keep it in mind, making a mistake can have serious consequences.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 11:14:56 AM EDT
I'm very familiar with the area. If you're between Rt74 and the river, it is pure farmland for the most part. Not exactly a high crime area, usually. If the house burned down under any suspicious circumstances, then the cops are already involved. You might want to give them call and ask to talk to whoever is investigating it. Tell them you heard that there may be gunfire involved, and that the "word" was that it was some kids in the developement. If the little suckers shot that many rounds, they may have left some laying around.... Quite likely the cops won't know about the gun fire, or at least haven't been told of the rumors. Might help them catch the little buggers. Be careful about shooting at anyone up there though - a neighbor might not know why you are shooting at kids and start shooting at you! Most folks have guns around here.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 11:25:08 AM EDT
Just spoke to the trooper in charge of the investigation. He verified that the fire was arson. I asked him about the reports of gunshots and he verified that several neighbors reported hearing gunshots immediately before the fire. I asked about bullet holes and spent shell casings etc. He said he knew of no bullet holes or shell casings. The wife spoke to the neighbor and she said she spoke to the State Police and they verified that shots were fired. Not exactly jibing with what the trooper told me. I am inclined to believe that if there were no bullet holes, then no shots were fired. I am betting, after talking to the trooper, that they heard the tires exploding, or aerosol cans or some such nonsense. I guess I will not be patrolling with the AK unless the Troopers verify definitively that someone was shooting houses.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 11:58:43 AM EDT
We had a bunch of young punks going through our neighborhood and bashing mail boxes and other stuff. The next morning I went out to get my mail and all I had was a lump of concrete that had been my mailbox and post. I vowed I would find out who the little shits were and it only took me about 3 weeks to do just that. Granted my case is a hell of lot less serious than yours, but my method involves getting together with your neighbors and exchanging information. Use your kids or any of the other kids and have them keep their ears open especially at school. One thing young punks love to do is brag. And this is what then ones I caught did. Turns out, they bragged to the wrong person. We busted all of the punks to the tune of around $900 and made them pay, or at least their parents paid. Turns out the little shits were all of 13 and out running around the neighborhood at 3 AM on a Sunday morning. Get all your neighbors together, talk, watch and listen and I just about guarantee someone will go bragging. Once you find one of the punks, you will find the rest.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 1:25:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 1:37:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TomJefferson: Rebel your story reminded me of one. Had a buddy called Crazy Stan who without any warning would lean out the car and grab a mail box. Would tick us off to no end for usually we were drinking and that was one really good way to go to jail. The neighbors caught on to Crazy Stan and put in 2" pipes with concrete. We are driving along one night and like magic Crazy Stan is not in the car anymore. We turn around to find him lumped over a mail box moaning. Talk about poetic justice. Btw, Crazy Stan is a pharmacist now in a major hospital in KY. Kids do weird things and can change. Back to the thread, what I got was this, New neighbor, just moved in, and dune buggey arson. Even as a juvenile delinquent, you don't typically light a car unless you have a score to settle. Insurance on the other hand does pay off for fires intentional or not as long as you aren't caught setting them. Buying a new house puts you in a cash crunch. Just how well do you know this new neighbor?
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Don't even know their names. Sadly.
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