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Posted: 6/8/2003 1:29:16 AM EDT
It seems as though every attempt has ended in success. I keep hearing stories of anti`s getting dragged to a shooting range, firing a bunch of rounds, and leaving with some knowledge and a different view on guns. Is this the best way to turn change their minds? I guess its a bit slow, but it looks like it works every time.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 1:56:17 AM EDT
a shooting area, rather than a formal range, is often better I've found.. it helps to dispel notions of hip shooting when they can try hitting things that way... Plus, it shows people that guns are used for more than target practice and killing others (in their minds). Many people have no concept of plinking.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 2:20:47 AM EDT
Violence. I do not wish violence on innocent people. But the majority of victims wish they had a way to defend themselves. THey realize that the police don't magically appear on command to rescue you. They learn from their stupidity.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 4:46:37 AM EDT
Spork- always works for me. It's kinda the show and tell thing ya know. The last time i went out with an Anti he got to shoot a FA MP5A2. He got to see first hand that shooting from the hip is inaccurate no matter if you shoot full or semi auto. Iirc we put roughly 3000 rounds downrange that day. I wish i had a camera to get a pic of the guys ear to ear smile when he was shooting the MP5. Sometimes I'll pull guns out at home and point out the cosmetics that make a gun banned or not, I did that a few weeks back when a couple of my moms fellow profs. were over and one of them said some BS about the ban working to keep assault weapons off the street. If there willing to learn I'm willing to teach what I can, but some of them well there just not savable, and others well people don't change unless they want to.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 4:56:16 AM EDT
Let them get gang raped in a dark alley (with a cell phone).
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 8:21:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 8:29:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 8:49:17 AM EDT
The one thing almost all antis have in common is [b]extreme ignorance[/b] about firearms and firearms-related laws. Of the three MMM ladies I met with yesterday one of them, a Brit of about 65, had no concept of how a detachable box magazine works. When I showed her three fired cartridge cases she had no idea what they were or how they worked. I had to explain where the bullet goes and how the primer and powder work. Along with ignorance goes fear. One lady, a Registered Nurse of about 40, declined to touch any of my visual aids. Her mother had been murdered by a crazed husband (a convicted felon who was not her father) when she was 19. She said her brothers live in Illinois and like to hunt, but she could not understand how they could want to have guns after they mother had been shot dead. I offered a theory that in their minds there was no connection between them or their weapons and that or any other violent crime. None of the three had any idea about the differences between federal and state "assault weapon" laws, or the practical implications of the expiration of the federal ban next September. They had no clue that the AR-15 is the "weapon of choice" for competitive target shooters, or how much one costs. None of them had ever seen a Form 4473. Now they each have a copy with key questions and the penalty provisions highlighted. As I expected they were VERY surprised to learn that from 2000 - 2002 of the 450,000 or so people who were denied a gun due to NICS checks, only a little over 1,500 were prosecuted for their lies. My agenda item - Lack of enforcement of GCA '68/Brady - took up much of the meeting. The hostess brought some brochures from the "Ask Campaign" encouraging people to ask their kids' friends' parents if they have guns and how they are stored. The only other subject of discussion was our own personal experiences related to firearms. If I hadn't been there I think they would have spent the time regurgitating propaganda while ruminating over their own personal tragedies and scares. It's imperative that we make ourselves available to antis on all levels. We have the knowledge that they lack, and if all they ever hear is Brady/VPC agitprop they'll just keep getting more and more anti with every illegal shooting that comes to their attention. Only we can counteract their ignorance with facts, and we must put a friendly face on pro-RKBA people to dispel the negative stereotypes. We have to set our stereotypes aside as well. I was expecting a table full of Bella Abzugs or Rosies. The three women I met were all attractive, intelligent, and apparently even heterosexual. Not that any of that matters, but I was prepared to get shouted down by mean liberal lesbians of size.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 8:55:39 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 3:43:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By California_Kid: The one thing almost all antis have in common is [b]extreme ignorance[/b] about firearms and firearms-related laws. Of the three MMM ladies I met with yesterday one of them, a Brit of about 65, had no concept of how a detachable box magazine works. When I showed her three fired cartridge cases she had no idea what they were or how they worked. I had to explain where the bullet goes and how the primer and powder work. Along with ignorance goes fear. One lady, a Registered Nurse of about 40, declined to touch any of my visual aids. Her mother had been murdered by a crazed husband (a convicted felon who was not her father) when she was 19. She said her brothers live in Illinois and like to hunt, but she could not understand how they could want to have guns after they mother had been shot dead. I offered a theory that in their minds there was no connection between them or their weapons and that or any other violent crime. None of the three had any idea about the differences between federal and state "assault weapon" laws, or the practical implications of the expiration of the federal ban next September. They had no clue that the AR-15 is the "weapon of choice" for competitive target shooters, or how much one costs. None of them had ever seen a Form 4473. Now they each have a copy with key questions and the penalty provisions highlighted. As I expected they were VERY surprised to learn that from 2000 - 2002 of the 450,000 or so people who were denied a gun due to NICS checks, only a little over 1,500 were prosecuted for their lies. My agenda item - Lack of enforcement of GCA '68/Brady - took up much of the meeting. The hostess brought some brochures from the "Ask Campaign" encouraging people to ask their kids' friends' parents if they have guns and how they are stored. The only other subject of discussion was our own personal experiences related to firearms. If I hadn't been there I think they would have spent the time regurgitating propaganda while ruminating over their own personal tragedies and scares. It's imperative that we make ourselves available to antis on all levels. We have the knowledge that they lack, and if all they ever hear is Brady/VPC agitprop they'll just keep getting more and more anti with every illegal shooting that comes to their attention. Only we can counteract their ignorance with facts, and we must put a friendly face on pro-RKBA people to dispel the negative stereotypes. We have to set our stereotypes aside as well. I was expecting a table full of Bella Abzugs or Rosies. The three women I met were all attractive, intelligent, and apparently even heterosexual. Not that any of that matters, but I was prepared to get shouted down by mean liberal lesbians of size.
View Quote
'Along with ignorance goes fear......' Sadly enough, it becomes a fear contest. Often, a victim of a violent crime becomes more afraid of having to go through the ordeal again than they are of firearms. Then they learn to use a gun, of course, by then it's too late. It would be interesting to interview moms that carry and see what motivated them to start packing. I'll bet that many of them have either been crime victims or have had a loved one that was or have had a close call. Someone once asked me how to get an anti type soccor mom to pack. I bit, and he answered 'Rape her.' For a moment or 2 I thought that was a HORRIBLE thing to say, but after a few seconds, I knew it to be another sad truth of life. The other thing is that people have gotten too 'civilized'? We get meat from the grocery store. When the hot H2O heater breaks, we call someone. In short, people tend not to know how to use tools anymore, a gun being a tool. After a while, it becomes a 'call someone' mentality. It's interesting that on this forum, the number od questions such as 'How do you fix a ...' Shooters tend to be pretty independent. I know that even if it'd cost me the same amt(or even more) to do a repair myself as it would to call someone,I'd STILLm do it myself. Self defense is an extension of the Do It Yourself mentality.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 7:59:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/8/2003 8:00:54 PM EDT by warlord]
Originally Posted By piccolo:
Originally Posted By California_Kid: The one thing almost all antis have in common is [b]extreme ignorance[/b] about firearms and firearms-related laws. Of the three MMM ladies I met with yesterday one of them, a Brit of about 65, had no concept of how a detachable box magazine works. When I showed her three fired cartridge cases she had no idea what they were or how they worked. I had to explain where the bullet goes and how the primer and powder work. Along with ignorance goes fear. One lady, a Registered Nurse of about 40, declined to touch any of my visual aids. Her mother had been murdered by a crazed husband (a convicted felon who was not her father) when she was 19. She said her brothers live in Illinois and like to hunt, but she could not understand how they could want to have guns after they mother had been shot dead. I offered a theory that in their minds there was no connection between them or their weapons and that or any other violent crime. None of the three had any idea about the differences between federal and state "assault weapon" laws, or the practical implications of the expiration of the federal ban next September. They had no clue that the AR-15 is the "weapon of choice" for competitive target shooters, or how much one costs. None of them had ever seen a Form 4473. Now they each have a copy with key questions and the penalty provisions highlighted. As I expected they were VERY surprised to learn that from 2000 - 2002 of the 450,000 or so people who were denied a gun due to NICS checks, only a little over 1,500 were prosecuted for their lies. My agenda item - Lack of enforcement of GCA '68/Brady - took up much of the meeting. The hostess brought some brochures from the "Ask Campaign" encouraging people to ask their kids' friends' parents if they have guns and how they are stored. The only other subject of discussion was our own personal experiences related to firearms. If I hadn't been there I think they would have spent the time regurgitating propaganda while ruminating over their own personal tragedies and scares. It's imperative that we make ourselves available to antis on all levels. We have the knowledge that they lack, and if all they ever hear is Brady/VPC agitprop they'll just keep getting more and more anti with every illegal shooting that comes to their attention. Only we can counteract their ignorance with facts, and we must put a friendly face on pro-RKBA people to dispel the negative stereotypes. We have to set our stereotypes aside as well. I was expecting a table full of Bella Abzugs or Rosies. The three women I met were all attractive, intelligent, and apparently even heterosexual. Not that any of that matters, but I was prepared to get shouted down by mean liberal lesbians of size.
View Quote
'Along with ignorance goes fear......' Sadly enough, it becomes a fear contest. Often, a victim of a violent crime becomes more afraid of having to go through the ordeal again than they are of firearms. Then they learn to use a gun, of course, by then it's too late. It would be interesting to interview moms that carry and see what motivated them to start packing. I'll bet that many of them have either been crime victims or have had a loved one that was or have had a close call. Someone once asked me how to get an anti type soccor mom to pack. I bit, and he answered 'Rape her.' For a moment or 2 I thought that was a HORRIBLE thing to say, but after a few seconds, I knew it to be another sad truth of life. The other thing is that people have gotten too 'civilized'? We get meat from the grocery store. When the hot H2O heater breaks, we call someone. In short, people tend not to know how to use tools anymore, a gun being a tool. After a while, it becomes a 'call someone' mentality. It's interesting that on this forum, the number od questions such as 'How do you fix a ...' Shooters tend to be pretty independent. I know that even if it'd cost me the same amt(or even more) to do a repair myself as it would to call someone,I'd STILLm do it myself. Self defense is an extension of the Do It Yourself mentality.
View Quote
You did California_Kid, you deserve an "atta boy." For most people who are not into guns either by hobby or profession, they get most of their knowledge by watch television or the movies. And those are most made by anti-gun people.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 8:15:41 PM EDT
shoot them? [:p]
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 12:29:24 AM EDT
Tell them "it's for the children".
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 12:41:47 AM EDT
There was a great editorial today in the Tacoma News Tribune. A woman was writing about how she totally understands the actions of a citizen who shot a home intruder--because there was an intruder in her home. At the end of the article she talks about how it could have ended badly well ahead of a police response, so now she is going to get serious about her security. She said she would "aquire a gun".
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 12:44:19 AM EDT
[url]http://www.tribnet.com/opinion/story/3258256p-3288096c.html[/url] Here it is.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 12:47:48 AM EDT
Let people know you have guns and don't be a freak about it. About everyone I know and work with knows that I own guns and even what "type" of guns. I had a friend who I never even discussed guns with at a party come up to me and say that she used to really be against people owning guns but after knowing me it has changed her mind. We need to show people that there are a lot of us out there and that we are (relatively) normal people not out to shoot their babies in a drive by. Plus most eventually realize that gun control laws only affect the law abiding. It is amazing how such a simple concept is lost on most people. Cal Kid, you da man. That is awesome. You should be awarded an arfcom medal for going into enemey territory without backup.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 12:53:54 AM EDT
Every time someone at my college learns I have guns, the first thing they say is "remind me not to get on your bad side" or something similar. I find that to be insulting. Did meet one 17 yo chick who was hardcore into self defense. She was waiting anxiously for when she would be old enough to buy a pistol.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 12:59:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By NAM: Violence. I do not wish violence on innocent people. But the majority of victims wish they had a way to defend themselves. THey realize that the police don't magically appear on command to rescue you. They learn from their stupidity.
View Quote
DITTO!!! I do not wish it on anybody either, but if Satan popped up and said "there will be an inevitable attack on building 'X'... and you must pick the 2,500 people that will be in it when it explodes" well, I'm sure you can guess a good deal of the names I would select. I also find it ironic that there are big anti gun/anti violence celebrities that won't own such a weapon themselves, but would at the drop of a hat hire gun-wielding bodyguards, most of which have hardware we could neither afford, nor gain access to in our wildest dreams.
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