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Posted: 6/6/2003 11:04:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/6/2003 7:02:18 PM EDT by clean_cut]
If you really read the Bible, esp. the things Jesus Christ said, it's quite suprising, and not what you'd expect. It seems to me what he preached was anarchy - the break down of the family structure. He overturned market tables, advocated individuals selling off all their worldy goods. Here are some verses. Matthew 19 29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. Mark 3 31Then Jesus' mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. 32A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, "Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you." 33"Who are my mother and my brothers?" he asked. 34Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! 35Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother." Mark 10 29"I tell you the truth," Jesus replied, "no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel 30will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age (homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields--and with them, persecutions) and in the age to come, eternal life. 31But many who are first will be last, and the last first." Luke 8 19Now Jesus' mother and brothers came to see him, but they were not able to get near him because of the crowd. 20Someone told him, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to see you." 21He replied, "My mother and brothers are those who hear God's word and put it into practice." Luke 11 27As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, "Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you." 28He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it." Luke 14 25Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple. Luke 12 49"I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! 50But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is completed! 51Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law." Matthew 8 18When Jesus saw the crowd around him, he gave orders to cross to the other side of the lake. 19Then a teacher of the law came to him and said, "Teacher, I will follow you wherever you go." 20Jesus replied, "Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head." 21Another disciple said to him, "Lord, first let me go and bury my father." 22But Jesus told him, "Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead."
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 11:16:06 AM EDT
Christ and his followers in Judea and Rome were total rebels. Now look at Christians. It's kind of funny, isn't it?
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 11:16:22 AM EDT
How much do you want for the gourd?
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 11:20:21 AM EDT
I am constantly amazed at the deap hatred some people have for religions. Clean Cut, I think you may have taken things way out of context. Try reading the whole book instead of just parts. Jesus taught how the live your life on earth. HE also taught us to follow his laws. Ahhhh screw it. You have your own agenda and I doubt I will change anyones mind. Sgtar15 PS You know that voice in your head that tells you when not to do something? Who do you think that is?
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 11:26:44 AM EDT
Also notice all the women who looked up to Jesus (aside from his mother) were either prostitutes or adulteresses? That's why people were saying to him "Why are you soiling your reputation hanging out with all these skanks?" Matthew 9 11When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?" Modern-day equivalent: Hey, that guy hangs out with streetwalkers and strippers.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 11:30:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/6/2003 11:31:45 AM EDT by NAKED-GUNMAN]
Oh, look at me! I hate God and Jesus..I love coming out on boards and pissing off christians "he,he"...there is no God and Jesus was crook and was'nt real...and blah, blah. Clean-cut..if there is a God and you are wrong, you are in for a hell of an eternity. Keep your anti-christ bs to yourself, offending people just to show your ignorance gets old. Edited to say..IBTL. Clean cut is an asshole.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 11:32:42 AM EDT
1 of the Commandments. Honor thy father and mother. I would have to say that is pretty pro-family in my book. Jesus hung out with sinners....period. Street walkers are sinners. I guess it like the people who say churches are full of sinners....well of course they are!! Just like doctors offices is full of sick people!! Because when you are healthy why the hell would you go to the doctor?? Undertsand yet?? Sgtar15
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 11:41:13 AM EDT
Well, a quote is a direct, unedited excerpt from a given source, and my threads have quotes from the Bible. If you're arguing with that then you're arguing with the Bible.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 11:43:53 AM EDT
Naked-gunman: I think that was a little harsh. I dont think theres anything wrong with questioning something you have been tought your whole life. To really understand something you have to investigate it yourself or let others who have give their side. A Christian cant win over a non-Christian with hatred.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 11:46:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By clean_cut: Well, a quote is a direct, unedited excerpt from a given source, and my threads have quotes from the Bible. If you're arguing with that then you're arguing with the Bible.
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I am not arguing with the Bible. I am arguing with your interpitation of the Bible, your lack of knowledge of that time, and the way Jesus actually meant his message. Example....[b]21He replied, "My mother and brothers are those who hear God's word and put it into practice." [/b] By this Jesus obviously uses the word "brother" in the sense of males in humankind. Meaning we are all related and of the same family....the HUMAN FAMILY. You say you are a Christian....let me ask you this. Are you a self taught Christian? Have any formal traing?? SGtar15
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 12:02:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By clean_cut: Also notice all the women who looked up to Jesus (aside from his mother) were either prostitutes or adulteresses? That's why people were saying to him "Why are you soiling your reputation hanging out with all these skanks?" Matthew 9 11When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?" Modern-day equivalent: Hey, that guy hangs out with streetwalkers and strippers.
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Why don't you post the next three passages? Then you will have answered your own question, no?
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 12:04:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/6/2003 12:05:43 PM EDT by HillBillySasquatch]
Im somewhat new here, but where is ETH on this one? -HS oh, and I dont think Jesus hanging w/ tax collectors and sinners is tha same as "street walkers and strippers......... ......maybe the modern equivalent: why is Jesus club'n in Vegas w/ the IRS?
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 12:21:08 PM EDT
Why do we need ETH here. All we have here is a failure to communicate. If he would continue reading the good book and stop taking it out of context, he will answer his own questions. I'm the what, forth person on this thread to tell him this?
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 12:24:08 PM EDT
Would someone please elaborate on this [i]context[/i] I'm missing out on?
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 12:26:50 PM EDT
Chill out guys , I do not think that he was trying to start a debate on the nature of Christianity , or anything like that , It seemed to me that it was just an observation about the character of early Christians.... If you have ever read religious history in addition to the bible , you would see that he is not far off in that observation... t
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 12:29:11 PM EDT
oh crap this is funny....most of the emodern religious people would be turned into the streets by Iesus...and you guys are denying this...JC would be kicking ass and taking names on these moneychangers today i.e. TV evangelists. Get over yourselves, He wasn't soft and cute and cuddly...he overturned the oxcart at every occasion and He still would be if the Holy Roman Empire---the guilt of the catholic church---and the Jews---the guilt of the chosen--hadn't strung him up like a pinata. The man said can't we all just get along and they killed Him for it. Because His message was a threat to the people in power......live with it....JC WAS an anti-government anarchist.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 12:35:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 12:37:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sgtar15: PS You know that voice in your head that tells you when not to do something? Who do you think that is?
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What is that voice in thy head?
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 12:40:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TheRicker:
Originally Posted By clean_cut: Also notice all the women who looked up to Jesus (aside from his mother) were either prostitutes or adulteresses? That's why people were saying to him "Why are you soiling your reputation hanging out with all these skanks?" Matthew 9 11When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?" Modern-day equivalent: Hey, that guy hangs out with streetwalkers and strippers.
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Luke 5: 30-32 But their scribes and Pharisees murmured against his disciples, saying, Why do ye eat and drink with publicans and sinners? And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
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So, Jesus had a heart for the down and out, the lost, the despised. He was not afraid to count them as friends. That, to me, was (and is) pretty radical. Most Christians today wouldn't be caught dead associating with such individuals.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 12:59:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By clean_cut: So, Jesus had a heart for the down and out, the lost, the despised. He was not afraid to count them as friends. That, to me, was (and is) pretty radical. Most Christians today wouldn't be caught dead associating with such individuals.
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So you think Christians today are NOT part of the "down and out, lost and despised"???? Again, Jesus called on sinners to [b]repent[/b], not just live and let live.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 1:03:34 PM EDT
Man , I know this is gonna get ugly.... I know I should stay away ...it's like watching a car crash..... t
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 1:05:05 PM EDT
I guess the core of what I'm trying to say is: the more you have, the more cold-hearted you become. the less you have, the more generous you become, with your possessions as well as with your compassion. Jesus hung out with the down and out, lost and despised because he knew they were less judgemental, and more accepting of him than the religious people of his day. The Pharisees, as they were called, should have been the first to accept him with open arms, but they saw his dirty clothes, his unsavory friends, and his lack of formal education, and basically said, "Who are [i]you[/i] to preach to us?" I notice that people today in the big churches are no different.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 1:14:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By clean_cut: Jesus hung out with the down and out, lost and despised because he knew they were less judgemental, and more accepting of him than the religious people of his day.
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[b]Bzzzt! WRONG!!![/b] Do you have a reading comprehension problem???? When asked WHY Jesus hung with the sinners, HIS REASON was: "They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." He hung with sinners NOT because they were less judgmental [whacko] but because they were SINNERS who needed to be set on a straight course!!!
The Pharisees, as they were called, should have been the first to accept him with open arms, but they saw his dirty clothes, his unsavory friends, and his lack of formal education, and basically said, "Who are [i]you[/i] to preach to us?" I notice that people today in the big churches are no different.
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What "big churches" are these that you attend so often and get to know the attendees so well that you can pass judgement on so easily?????? Who's the judgemental hypocrite again?
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 1:14:53 PM EDT
i'll give you a hundred bucks for your bushmaster...
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 1:17:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 1:26:36 PM EDT
Well, I presented my topic for discussion and was really neither anti- nor pro- the Christian faith (in the way I presented it). Just observations, and yet all the hostile, knee-jerk reactions calling me from hypocrite to asshole to ignorant whatever have been from Christians. I don't mind if you think I'm wrong, but let's not get belligerent about it.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 1:43:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/6/2003 1:46:56 PM EDT by The_Macallan]
Originally Posted By clean_cut: Most Christians today wouldn't be caught dead associating with such individuals.
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You are soooooo willfully blind to the work that Christian organizations do for the poor, the sick, the imprisoned and the lost. Nearly ALL major charity organizations in this country were begun by CHRISTIANS following CHRISTIAN principles and were part of ORGANIZED CHRISTIAN CHURCH efforts to help the community - and still are. Salvation Army, St. Vincent DePaul Charity, all the hospitals with "St. Joseph" or "St. Jude" or "Good Samaritan" in their name were CHRISTIAN CHURCH-based in their origins and funding (just to name a few). Homeless shelters, soup kitchens, children's hospitals, missionary work, prison-outreach programs, charity drives, and on and on and on.... ALL for the benefit of the poor, the sick, the downtrodden and the despised of society. There are none so blind as YOU who refuse to see, [b]clean_cut[/b].
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 1:46:25 PM EDT
Okay, clean_cut. I'll address one of your errors without being insulting. You say about Jesus, "what he preached was anarchy". This is foolish. He never said anything to support anarchy. In fact he said, "Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's." Matthew 22:21 Regarding politics He said, "My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now is my kingdom not from hence." John 18:36 He didn't encourage resistance against Roman authority, because that wasn't His purpose in coming to earth. And if you wonder why you are treated harshly, it is because there are some people like me on this board. I was a worthless sinner without any redeeming qualities. Jesus loved me when I was in that state. He died in my place and gave, yes, GAVE, me eternal life without me having to earn it. So, when you speak foolishness about my Lord, it offends me and I get a little "riled up" as we say down here in Texas. If you have questions, be polite and they will be discussed. But if you are insulting of my Savior, expect something else.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 1:47:34 PM EDT
You are soooooo willfully blind to the work that Christian organizations do for the poor, the sick, the imprisoned and the lost. Nearly ALL major charity organizations in this country were begun by CHRISTIANS following CHRISTIAN principles and were part of ORGANIZED CHRISTIAN CHURCH efforts to help the community (just to name a few). Salvation Army, St. Vincent DePaul Charity, all the hospitals with "St. Joseph" or "St. Jude" or "Good Samaritan" in their name were CHRISTIAN CHURCH-based in their origins and funding. Homeless shelters, soup kitchens, children's hospitals, missionary work, prison-outreach programs, charity drives, and on and on and on.... ALL for the benefit of the poor, the sick, the downtrodden and the despised of society.
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Okay, I'll concede to that.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 1:48:32 PM EDT
There are none so blind as YOU who refuse to see, clean_cut.
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But I don't appreciate that. That was a cheap shot and unbecoming.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 1:51:07 PM EDT
WHERE IS ETH??? Hey Mr. Hun!!! We need your help here!!! Mr. Bible scholar!!!! Damn, I think he's away....
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 1:53:16 PM EDT
But if you are insulting of my Savior, expect something else.
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Okay, whether I am right or wrong about Christianity can be discussed. I understand the principle of being saved by grace, and know Jesus died on the cross to give those who believe eternal life. But do you really think Jesus needs you to defend his honor? Or make threats in his name?
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 1:54:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/6/2003 1:54:43 PM EDT by The_Macallan]
Originally Posted By clean_cut:
There are none so blind as YOU who refuse to see, clean_cut.
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But I don't appreciate that. That was a cheap shot and unbecoming.
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Sorry, just paraphrasing a "radical" saying I read in a book somewhere. [;)]
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 1:58:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By clean_cut: If you really read the Bible, esp. the things Jesus Christ said, it's quite suprising, and not what you'd expect.
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Definetely not what MANY expect...
It seems to me what he preached was anarchy - the break down of the family structure. He overturned market tables, advocated individuals selling off all their worldy goods.
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The definition of anarchy is "complete absence of govt., political disorder, and violence". Jesus never advocated violence against the leaders. He had authority for his violence in the Temple, (after all, it was His temple!!) If you look at the context, and the original languages of ALL the cited text, you will see the message He is trying to convey, is that fellowship with the Father, and His Kingdom, is more important than ANYTHING else, even that dearest to us...
Here are some verses.
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I don't need ta see 'em....[:D]
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 1:59:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By raven: Christ and his followers in Judea and Rome were total rebels. Now look at Christians. It's kind of funny, isn't it?
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Jesus won't be laughing when He returns....
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 2:02:37 PM EDT
If you look at the context, and the original languages of ALL the cited text, you will see the message He is trying to convey, is that fellowship with the Father, and His Kingdom, is more important than ANYTHING else, even that dearest to us...
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Okay, maybe not anarchy as you defined it. But this statement I took from your post is still quite radical, don't you think? The world teaches us family comes first. Or we should spend our time and energy "getting ahead" in life. That flies in the face of these beliefs. So, in a way, he did seek to redefine our basic value structure, which is in opposition to society's value structure. Wouldn't you say so?
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 2:06:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By clean_cut:
But if you are insulting of my Savior, expect something else.
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Okay, whether I am right or wrong about Christianity can be discussed. I understand the principle of being saved by grace, and know Jesus died on the cross to give those who believe eternal life. But do you really think Jesus needs you to defend his honor? Or make threats in his name?
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Does He need me to defend His honor? Certainly not. But he does command me: "..earnestly contend for the faith..." Jude 3
Or make threats in his name?
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Come on now. Are you really pretending that I "threatened" you? That is silly. I was only saying that you ought to expect Christians to defend their position when you make insulting statements. This is called a "Discussion Forum". That's what we do here. If you don't want your silly statements to be challenged, then take up another hobby. Something that doesn't require a thick skin or the ability to make a decent argument.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 2:13:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By clean_cut:
If you look at the context, and the original languages of ALL the cited text, you will see the message He is trying to convey, is that fellowship with the Father, and His Kingdom, is more important than ANYTHING else, even that dearest to us...
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Okay, maybe not anarchy as you defined it. But this statement I took from your post is still quite radical, don't you think?
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Jesus was a radical then, and He still is.
The world teaches us family comes first. Or we should spend our time and energy "getting ahead" in life. That flies in the face of these beliefs.
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You are correct. If one could say, that everything in this life is spiritual, and that the result of our choices, and priorities determines eternity for us, the stakes get important no? Add to that, the fact that there is a powerful intelligent being trying to prevent us from "connecting" to God, and it gets REAL interesting.. Family is REAL important, but not more so than salvation..
So, in a way, he did seek to redefine our basic value structure, which is in opposition to society's value structure. Wouldn't you say so?
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Yep!! His Kingdom is not of this world....
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 2:18:52 PM EDT
This is called a "Discussion Forum". That's what we do here. If you don't want your [i]silly[/i] statements to be challenged, then take up another hobby. Something that doesn't require a thick skin or the ability to make a decent argument.
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Okay, I suppose I am silly now, for daring to question Christian principles, or daring to post my observations. I have not once called anyone who posted on this thread "silly" or any other name. According to scripture, Jesus would have preferred you to endure beatings in his name, as all the apostles did, [i]as he did for you[/i]. That would better show gratitude for what he did for you, than to thrash some silly heathen in his name. Old_Painless, while I don't doubt your faith, you are in danger of imposing your human aggression on Jesus's teachings.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 2:31:31 PM EDT
I have not once called anyone who posted on this thread "silly" or any other name.
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If you will re-read carefully, you will note that I did not call you any names. I said your "statements" were silly. They are. To say that Jesus was an anarchist is not only silly, it borders on blasphemy.
Old_Painless, while I don't doubt your faith, you are in danger of imposing your human aggression on Jesus's teachings.
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I'm sorry, but I don't understand what exactly you are saying here. I haven't displayed any "human aggression" on this thread. I've only replied to your post and offered conflicting arguments. I don't usually argue with some members on religious threads as they are obviously not interested in hearing and maybe learning something they don't know. I was only posting on your thread because you seemed to be actually asking for input regarding the subject of "was Jesus an anarchist?" I didn't think you were a troll or I wouldn't have wasted my time. I apologize if I have offended you. It was not my intent.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 5:21:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By NAKED-GUNMAN: Oh, look at me! I hate God and Jesus..I love coming out on boards and pissing off christians "he,he"...there is no God and Jesus was crook and was'nt real...and blah, blah. Clean-cut..if there is a God and you are wrong, you are in for a hell of an eternity. Keep your anti-christ bs to yourself, offending people just to show your ignorance gets old. Edited to say..IBTL. Clean cut is an asshole.
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Yeah clean_cut! How dare you talk smack about the lord here on jesus15.com I find it quite amazing these guys get their panties all in a bunch like the super sized asshole I quoted above. Some "christian". Last time I checked this WAS America, If he wants to have his opinion, then its just that.. HIS opinion. So because it doesn't fall in like with your sheeplefed beliefs, hes automatically a troll and quite obviously an asshole. I don't see anyplace where he said he hated jesus and the bible, and even if he did.. SO WHAT! If he said he hated it and why, he automatically gets flamed off the board for not agreeing with you? Why not grow a brain like some of the other members here who actually are trying to discuss it with him? (jesus and bible are not capatilized on purpose.. deal with it)
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 5:38:41 PM EDT
Jesus was not an anarchist. to the pharisses and religous leaders of that time he was a radical and a threat, because they were so far away from what the old testament said i am a christan and i believe the priorities he wants me to have in my life are 1. God first 2. family i believe i should obey the gov. and laws of our society. he was not an anarchist. hope this makes sense. Walter
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 5:42:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By kabal57: (jesus and bible are not capatilized on purpose.. deal with it)
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Maybe you just don't know how to correctly use caps???? BTW You know we do use caps on Allah...
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 5:51:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By hound: oh crap this is funny....most of the emodern religious people would be turned into the streets by [J]esus...and you guys are denying this...JC would be kicking ass and taking names on these moneychangers today i.e. TV evangelists. Get over yourselves, He wasn't soft and cute and cuddly...he overturned the oxcart at every occasion and He still would be if the Holy Roman Empire---the guilt of the catholic church---and the Jews---the guilt of the chosen--hadn't strung him up like a pinata. The man said can't we all just get along and they killed Him for it. Because His message was a threat to the people in power......live with it....JC WAS an anti-government anarchist.
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I'd say you're right up to the point of calling him an "anarchist", which he was not.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 5:55:00 PM EDT
Okay, maybe anarchist was the wrong word. But "radical"? He was radical then, and is still radical now. Radical in the sense he took deeply held convictions and turned them upside down.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 6:01:20 PM EDT
I posted this before reading all of the posts, because I wanted to get in before the lock. A lot of people seem to think that Jesus was anti-government. Maybe, but the next question to ask would be, "Is He against [i]all[/i] governments, or just [i]that[/i] government." I think that you will find that during Jesus's time, the government of that land was also the authority on religion. When Jesus came, that was a continuation of their religion. However, the "government" denied this. IOW, the government seemed to have been corrupted. So, you may very well be able to rightly say that Jesus was against the corrupt government. That doesn't mean that He was against government in general.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 6:06:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/6/2003 6:08:04 PM EDT by Happyshooter]
Give unto ceasar what is caesar's, and unto God what is God's. Sell his cloak and buy one. It is better that a millstone be tied around his neck....... Sounds like Law & Order to me.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 6:08:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Johnphin: I posted this before reading all of the posts, because I wanted to get in before the lock. A lot of people seem to think that Jesus was anti-government. Maybe, but the next question to ask would be, "Is He against [i]all[/i] governments, or just [i]that[/i] government." I think that you will find that during Jesus's time, the government of that land was also the authority on religion. When Jesus came, that was a continuation of their religion. However, the "government" denied this. IOW, the government seemed to have been corrupted. So, you may very well be able to rightly say that Jesus was against the corrupt government. That doesn't mean that He was against government in general.
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Please, I'm not trying to be rude, but I have a hard time understanding what you're saying. The government of Jesus' time was the Roman government. Was Jesus against it because it was corrupt? Well, it was the govt that oppressed the Israelites at the time. But I don't think he was against it because it was corrupt (all govts are corrupt in some way or another). In the New Testament Jesus did not talk much about the Roman govt.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 6:08:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Tonys68l36:
Originally Posted By kabal57: (jesus and bible are not capatilized on purpose.. deal with it)
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Maybe you just don't know how to correctly use caps???? BTW You know we do use caps on Allah...
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Well, if it makes you feel any better, I wouldn't capatalize allah either. I'm an equal opportunity religion non capitalizer :)
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 6:19:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By clean_cut: Okay, maybe anarchist was the wrong word. But "radical"? He was radical then, and is still radical now. Radical in the sense he took deeply held convictions and turned them upside down.
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Now your getting warm. Jesus [i]is[/i] the most radical phenomenon since time immortal, period.
Originally Posted By clean_cut: In the New Testament Jesus did not talk much about the Roman govt.
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Being that [b]HE IS GOD[/b], I think he had more important things to talk about. I applaud you on your quest clean_cut. Keep looking and He will find you. Just please learn to forgive the rest of us. We are only human. --LS
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 6:26:43 PM EDT
I don't remember any of clean_cuts previous posts but at least he didn't say Jesus didn't exist...
Originally Posted By Old_Painless: He died in my place and gave, yes, GAVE, me eternal life without me having to earn it.
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Serious question, what happened to the people that lived and died before this event took place?
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