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Posted: 6/4/2003 6:10:38 PM EDT
So, anyway, the PCs are stupid cheap now, but all the Apple stuff I've seen has been very impressive and intuitlvely easy to use. This will be for sport use only, no business aps, other than E-bay. Opinions?
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 6:13:06 PM EDT
eMac
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 6:26:18 PM EDT
Bang for Buck, Macs suck. The only reason to buy a Mac (unless you just like them a whole bunch) is for Graphic Design/Digital Art. Even then, Macs aren't any better than PC's now. I wouldn't mind having a G4 for work, but I can buy 3 PC's that are just as fast for the same price.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 6:38:26 PM EDT
Do they still make Macs?[>:/] CHRIS
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 6:49:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Otter-pop: So, anyway, the PCs are stupid cheap now, but all the Apple stuff I've seen has been very impressive and intuitlvely easy to use. This will be for sport use only, no business aps, other than E-bay. Opinions?
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Sport use? If you plan on doing ANY gaming whatsoever, avoid the Mac like an anti at your doorstep. The simplest way I can think of to help you decide is this.....go down to the local Best Buy, EB, whatever...for where you'd get your software. Look at how many titles there are for the PC....then look at how many there are for the Mac. Then decide.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 6:55:44 PM EDT
[url]www.cnet.com[/url] Compare.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 7:05:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Sumo2000: Bang for Buck, Macs suck. The only reason to buy a Mac (unless you just like them a whole bunch) is for Graphic Design/Digital Art. Even then, Macs aren't any better than PC's now. I wouldn't mind having a G4 for work, but I can buy 3 PC's that are just as fast for the same price.
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The Mac delivers better preformance per Mhz than any PC. Back when the PC were 800-900 Mhz, my 400 Mhz G4 had a faster cycle than the PC, and it's still true today. Yes, the Mac's are expensive, especially if you go for the fastest ones out there, but remember that an 850Mhz Mac will run circles around a 1.5 Mhz PC. And if you do mess with DV or Photoshop, the Mac kicks the PC's ass. Plus the Mac uses less electricity, and runs cooler, which means fewer problems and lower operating costs. The Mac doesn't have as much software available as the PC, but the vast majority of PC programs are crappy anyway, and you have to be careful when making upgrades to be sure that everythin is compatable.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 7:06:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Cixelsyd: Do they still make Macs?[>:/] CHRIS
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Yes, but they are going the way of the Amiga!
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 7:10:15 PM EDT
Mac. If you like pain you can still buy M$ Office for the Mac.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 7:14:04 PM EDT
If you build it... [url]www.pricewatch.com[/url]
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 7:16:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2003 7:16:46 PM EDT by -Absolut-]
Macs are for retards and hippies, their most expensive comp out now is slower than most low end intel/amd based systems [url]http://www.cyberpowerinc.com/home.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 7:18:42 PM EDT
OK- Another inevitable "Ford/Chevy, Honda/Harley" thing about to erupt.... Get a PC and don't look back! Yeah, PCs have drawbacks - but IMO, far less than Macs.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 7:18:51 PM EDT
There is a reason that the Apple logo has homo/pride flag colors.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 7:36:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2003 7:40:57 PM EDT by Thomas_A_Anderson]
Originally Posted By bulldog1967:
Originally Posted By Cixelsyd: Do they still make Macs?[>:/] CHRIS
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Yes, but they are going the way of the Amiga!
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Actually Apple sales have been increasing the past 5 years. Once you go Mac, you never go back. I have a 1.7ghz PC and a 800mhz iBook that is much faster and IMO superior in every way. If you are accustomed to PCs it will take a while to get used to how much easier to use Macs are. PCs are for sheeple and those who buy computers at Wal Mart.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 7:42:31 PM EDT
mac shmac... silly computer that tends to force a gloating self-righteousness on its users. eeeeww... and all those "macs are twice as fast per mHz" claims are horseshit.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 7:43:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 7:49:52 PM EDT
Too easy. PC, and build it yourself.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 7:54:16 PM EDT
try playing the latest games on a mac, try sticking in a Ti4600 or ATI 9700 in a mac, hell try upgrading a mac at all...your walmart analogy couldn't be more wrong, they over-simplify mac's for a reason, its so people who dont know much about comps will see their quirky commercials, see them in all the movies and go out and pay too much for an inferior computer
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 8:09:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2003 8:12:43 PM EDT by NOVA5]
Originally Posted By Thomas_A_Anderson:
Originally Posted By bulldog1967:
Originally Posted By Cixelsyd: Do they still make Macs?[>:/] CHRIS
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Yes, but they are going the way of the Amiga!
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Actually Apple sales have been increasing the past 5 years. Once you go Mac, you never go back. I have a 1.7ghz PC and a 800mhz iBook that is much faster and IMO superior in every way. If you are accustomed to PCs it will take a while to get used to how much easier to use Macs are. PCs are for sheeple and those who buy computers at Wal Mart.
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i had to use a mac at work back in 96... ill say it this way. good thing it was goverment property. it would have been a range target. POS! mac is for leftist liberals. Did you build you PC or buy branded? if you bought branded there was your mistake. they debilitate them. to stablize them but the also run slower fans which tends to cause them to run hotter. so they run nearer to the edge than my selfbuilt system which has only crashed with a BSOD once in the last year. and that was because i used a beta driver.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 8:36:52 PM EDT
PC Yeah a Mac might run a little faster, but not near enough to justify the price difference. You modify your AR? Why?? Try to modify a MAC. The price differential is not worth it unless you are trying to do some of the graphics that are made for MACs otherwise for almost all other applications PCs are better. And if you could work a MAC and get confused to the point of immobility by a PC, as implied, well maybe you shouldn't have a toy that runs on house current. I've worked with both and I tell you the MAC with it's I know what you want to do more than you do built in attitude sucks. Hopefully they are better now but when sneakerware was being used things would come to a screeching halt when all the machines wanted the same disk.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 8:37:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 8:47:31 PM EDT
I should know better than to get sucked into such a volatile subject, but what the hell ... I'll throw in my $0.02 worth of perspective. I've used both macs and "PCs" for nearly two decades (starting with Apple IIe & IBM 8086!). Used to be a UNIX sysadmin back when the internet was just a pup (no WWW, just Arpanet and NSFnet). I've observed both operating systems "evolve" over this time. Best value for your dollar is a PC clone; Macs are not price-friendly - and application performance is pretty much equivalent when run on comparable hardware. However, you must consider the primary task(s) you'll be asking your new machine to accomplish. For a gaming platform, the PC has a distinct advantage (as already mentioned in this thread - more game titles - and it's inexpensive to upgrade hardware/components if the need arises). If you're going to be doing graphics or video-editing work, a Mac is the de facto standard - but the same apps will run on a PC. If you're going to be continuously plugged into the Internet, and you're concerned about your machine's security - the Mac is vastly superior. MS Windows OS network security is an oxymoron ... just how many $billions have MS products cost worldwide commercial and government institutions over the past decade because of security breaches, viruses, worms, etc.? Of course, you could just depend on the "safety in numbers" concept and hope that you're somehow spared from all the port scans - or spend extra $$ on software designed to protect your MS Windows based PC from unwanted intrusion.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 9:16:56 PM EDT
MACS suck! [url]jeremy.zawodny.com/media/bitch.mpg[/url] Con's for the MAC: -They don't have near the amount of software & hardware availible when compared to a PC. -The parts are really expensive when compared to a PC. -System not nearly as upgradeable as a PC. -Comparatively they cost way, way, more then does a PC. Pro's for the MAC: -You can get it in your choice of several rainbow colors -after your "conversion" you can look like a real simpleton/idiot/chump on national TV in your very own Apple Switch commercial. rssc p.s. I will never buy a computer that is marketed with some cool new design or your choice of some fruity new color
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 9:26:12 PM EDT
this is not a Mac bash, I happen to like and own Macs along with PC's. I do think the "lampshade" Mac looks stupid. Mac lovers like to brag that Macs are much more efficient per clock cycle (mhz rating) than their PC counterparts. Upto 2 years ago, it made sense. Mac's are probably 1.4-1.6 times as efficient (being generous here) per clock cycle as PC's, however times have changed and Mac's are "slower" than PC's now...Period. No way around it. Even using the most optimized software that has been previously used to highlight Mac performance (aka Adobe graphics products) are now faster on the top of the line PC's versus top of the line Mac's. Top of the line PC's are now "over" twice (and closer to 3 times) as fast in mhz ratings over Mac's available best. One of the Mac's previous higher price reasons was that Apple only used the best and highly tested components in the Mac. My "old" mac had great name-brand, high-end components. These days it isn't true anymore. You open them up, check the individual components, and you find the exact same crap as sold in every other top-tier PC maker only you pay more. You are now paying for "style" these days not substance. Their Operating Systems are good, but not functionally any better than Microsoft's in terms of speed, stability, or performance. What was true in the past is no longer true. Better eye candy perhaps, but the previous ease of "usablity" of the Mac is not any really greater than Windows, and eye candy gets stale without applications to run. Intuitive usage only depends on what you are used to. I remember when I thought the commodore was pretty intuitive. Mac's "used" to be more stable than their PC/Windows counter-parts, but the current OSX is not anymore stable than a well-tuned Windows 2K or XP (it "is" prettier though). All the latest and greatest software in terms of games, productivity programs, and now, even professional graphics programs (Mac's previous mainstay), are now created first for the PC and Windows rather than for the Mac and OS(whatever version). The same applies to hardware. Mac's still have a "style" differentiation, but even that is falling by the wayside as more PC makers are offering custom systems (previously known as mods), in all different forms. Last but not least, Apple's computer market share barely hangs on at under "4%" for the United States, with a little bit of the education market, and a bit of the proffessional graphics market as being the primary drivers. Now 4% of the total US numbers is a LOT of computers, however as more educational institutions switch to the PC exclusively, what do you think the students will buy in the future? The difference between PC and Mac users is that the PC crowd will talk about how easily they can make their PC better and faster, and how much hardware and software is available while Mac users tend to be elitists because they "can't" get their stuff at Walmart. I happpen to like Mac's. I also happen to like PC's. Apple still makes some really cool shit. For example, their IPods make all the other MP3 players look like crap. Their notebook setups are cool. Their panaramic flat panel screen is awesome. However in terms of best Mac versus best PC, their is no choice. Get a PC over a Mac and spend the money saved to learn better how to do it on the PC (or spend it on guns and ammo of course).
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 9:38:34 PM EDT
Don't forget the big advantage that a PC has over a Mac.......readily available pirated software. If you buy a Mac you'll have to shell out $$$ for everything you load on it, if you buy a PC all you have to do is bum a copy of it.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 9:43:59 PM EDT
I use Macs at work and PCs at home. I will NEVER use a Mac at home. No good gaming software. It is a myth about the lack of crashing, ours at work crash all the time. You can get a rocking PC for the cost of an imac. BTW, I just got one from [url]www.ibuypower.com[/url] for about what it would cost to build myself. Check em out.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 9:46:24 PM EDT
Let's talk about all that software that is available for PC's. 90% of it is crappy game software. 5% of it is good application stuff. the last 5% is crap that installs all that "spyware" crap that PC guys are always talking about. All of the major buisness software has a Mac version. As a matter of fact, MS even admit that the Mac version of Office runs rings around the PC version. Add to that the fact that Apple has 4% of the market, which is the largest single platform section of the market, and you have a company that is very viable. OSX runs rings around XP in the stability area, and it destroys windows in the area of security. Do you like all the virus infected e-mail out there? I don't sweat it, because the viri out there are written for windows, not mac's. The last virus that I got was the AutoStart worm, and that was from a program from a MacAddict disk, and around 3 years ago, and it wasn't anything that would give me the BSOD. The PC is fine if you have a small budget, but if you can afford to buy a mac, do it. You will have a lot fewer headaches.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 10:02:14 PM EDT
As a card-carrying geek, I love the Mac. It's Unix and it's a useful productivity software box with powerpoint and word. You can fire up Apache, Axis, and all the rest and do serious geek stuff. Hack the kernel. Full and excellent development environment available for free. And, oh yeah, it just works. My Dell 8200 laptop is constantly screwing the pooch when it wakes up from sleep. My iBook does that flawlessly, and I usually keep it up for months on end. Apple's software was designed by people who knew what they were doing. Microsoft's is typically done by bright kids just out of school who make all the classic mistakes.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 10:17:07 PM EDT
Apples suck, I will admit that I started out on the old C64, then switched to IBM type computers. lately I have had to deal with apples because that is what my girlfriend has...let me tell you I have had more problems with her two apples then I ever had on my PC...two hard drives crashed...apples said, oh that will be $460 some dollars to replace each...the damn thing was like a year and 2 month old.....lets just say she will not ever get another crapple again!
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 11:22:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By rssc: MACS suck! [url]jeremy.zawodny.com/media/bitch.mpg[/url]
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"You idiot. You own a MacIntosh. The file is fucking gone. It's just gone!" ... LMFAO !!
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 11:27:44 PM EDT
I make my living as a Mac consultant and I can tell you that OS X is not your father's operating system. It's incredibly stable and infinitely customizable. If you are looking for a Home Gaming machine a PC is probably your best bet. They're cheaper and the games are released for them first. If you are looking for a home office machine than either would work perfectly. There's basically no difference between Office on OS X or Windows XP. If you want to use your computer for Music, Digital Photos or Video, Web or Print Design, some gaming [i]and[/i] Office Work than you should look into a Mac. If you can, go to one of the new Apple Stores and try it out. Another plus is the perfect integration of the iPod with the Mac OS. If you have a lot of MP3s this might help sway you in the Mac direction. Feel free to email me with any questions. ttubbiola@earthlink.net Tom RATTERS: If you're in SoCal I could come out and look into your crashing Mac issue for you.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 11:28:29 PM EDT
I run a small business with several representative samples from both camps, including laptops and desktops. The Windows machines used to be cheaper, but aren't anymore when you consider the cost to keep them running. As a rule, the Windows hardware isn't as reliable, and the software tends to be a major time-sink (and time is money!). It's just not as easy to install, use or maintain. In the past 10 years of almost daily computer use, I have NEVER had to reinstall the Mac system software. It crashes occasionally, but always restarts without a hitch. Plus, almost nobody writes viruses for the Mac – no monthly Microsoft updates for security patches and bug fixes. Mac software availabilty isn't a problem – dozens of products are available for just about any application. Anything you can't find at Wal-Mart can be had at CompUSA, Amazon or ebay. There's a reason Apple has managed to buck the status quo for so many years and still survive – the hardware is top-quality, and much of the software is truly a labor of love. Steve Jobs may be a butthead, but he sure builds a fine computer...
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 7:31:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Skibane: I run a small business with several representative samples from both camps, including laptops and desktops. The Windows machines used to be cheaper, but aren't anymore when you consider the cost to keep them running. As a rule, the Windows hardware isn't as reliable, and the software tends to be a major time-sink (and time is money!). It's just not as easy to install, use or maintain. In the past 10 years of almost daily computer use, I have NEVER had to reinstall the Mac system software. It crashes occasionally, but always restarts without a hitch. Plus, almost nobody writes viruses for the Mac – no monthly Microsoft updates for security patches and bug fixes. Mac software availabilty isn't a problem – dozens of products are available for just about any application. Anything you can't find at Wal-Mart can be had at CompUSA, Amazon or ebay. There's a reason Apple has managed to buck the status quo for so many years and still survive – the hardware is top-quality, and much of the software is truly a labor of love. Steve Jobs may be a butthead, but he sure builds a fine computer...
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Skibane, How is your average end user PC app more difficult to install then a MAC app? I mean the install steps for Office is pretty much: Next -> Enter SN -> Typical instal -> Next -> Finish The only software that I'd call a "labor of love" is open source software done under the BSD license. rssc
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 7:41:22 AM EDT
If you want a computer for gaming, then there is no comparison, forget the mac and get a PC.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 7:42:14 AM EDT
Look at what Apple has contributed to the computer world: Keyboards, the mouse, icons, etc, etc,etc. If it were up to the PCs we would still be feeding our computers cards with hole punched in them to tell them what to do. For anyone that doesn't already know, Windows was invented in an attempt to make PCs look and work more like Macs.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 7:42:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sgranke: ...let me tell you I have had more problems with her two apples then I ever had on my PC...
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That's why geeks don't have girlfriends.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 7:47:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Hellraiser: If you want a computer for gaming, then there is no comparison, forget the mac and get a PC.
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Translation: If you want a toy, buy a PC. If you want a comp for serious purposes, buy a Mac.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 8:00:20 AM EDT
"I like the handle here, it's really handy, so you can attach a chain and use it as a FUCKIN BOAT ANCHOR!" [LOL]
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 8:05:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By triburst1:
Originally Posted By Hellraiser: If you want a computer for gaming, then there is no comparison, forget the mac and get a PC.
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Translation: If you want a toy, buy a PC. If you want a comp for serious purposes, buy a Mac.
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Incorrect [mac bash mode on] Correct translation: If you want an extremely fast system that can handle the high end graphics and has enough muscle to provide solid frame rates for games then get a PC, if you want to draw flowers and have a nice pink case, get the mac. [mac bash mode off] I gave up on the mac years ago so I may be a bit ignorant on the latest capabilities so can someone knowledgeable explain to me if the latest greatest mac can hold a candle to the new PC I put together, specs: Intel 3.06 ghz 1 gig ram ATI radeon 9800 pro 240g HD I know game wise (performance, fps) the PC just kills the Mac, but how about apps that Macs usually excel at over the PC, like in DV authoring and such, do their top models beat Intel or AMD? I'd really like to know.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 8:10:55 AM EDT
[PC users]Must obey Bill Gates. Must follow the masses. Cheapest Mexican junk you can buy. Software available at yard sales. [PC users]
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 8:26:35 AM EDT
Something from the inside track. AL GORE IS ON THE BOARD OF APPLE. They did this last week and have kept under covers for political reasons. These folks are the ones you say you despise. Besides Apples make up 1% of the computers in the world they are expensive, use PC IDE hard drives, chipsets, and the power PC line of G"x" chips being designed by IBM. Also everytime you buy from APPLE you are sending money to your enemy. These are the same San Fransico lefty types you complain about on a weekly basis. Think about it.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 8:46:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2003 8:49:53 AM EDT by rssc]
Originally Posted By triburst1: Look at what Apple has contributed to the computer world: Keyboards, the mouse, icons, etc, etc,etc. If it were up to the PCs we would still be feeding our computers cards with hole punched in them to tell them what to do. For anyone that doesn't already know, Windows was invented in an attempt to make PCs look and work more like Macs.
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triburst, 100% pure BS. The mouse was invented by Doug Engelbart (first released with the Xerox Alto PC 1973), the QWERTY keyboard was developed in 1872 (It was originally used in typewriters. If was later used in the Xerox Alto PC 1975), and the GUI was developed by Xerox first seen in it's Alto PC 1975. Xerox later refined the GUI adding windows, icons, etc. This refined GUI was first seen in the Xerox Star PC in 1981. [url]www-cse.stanford.edu/classes/sophomore-college/projects-01/human-computer-interaction/origins.htm[/url] As you can see Apple is not the technological innovator, Xerox was. Xerox gave jobs a tour of their facility in the early 80's. The Apple GUI then appeared shortly there after. Here's the Xerox Star [url]www.thocp.net/hardware/xerox_star.htm[/url] rssc
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 8:49:26 AM EDT
rssc, Apple was the first to made the use of the mouse, icons, and the keyboard practical and popular with home computers.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 9:09:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Thomas_A_Anderson: rssc, Apple was the first to made the use of the mouse, icons, and the keyboard practical and popular with home computers.
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I don't dispute that MAC's were the first to make it popular. The word "popular" wasn't in triburst 1's original statement, but the word "contributed" was. Too me if someone makes a contribution that means they developed the technology. As we know this wasn't the case. They took the concept and modified it a bit. Bottom line is Xerox was the innovator as the Star is a personal PC (albeit expensive) with a GUI. Apple just had a bettter sense of marketing then that of Xerox. rssc
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 9:55:51 AM EDT
Back to the original question: Buy a PC. The platform is more flexible and expandable. You will have the option to perform a larger set of functions with a PC over a MAC.
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