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Posted: 6/4/2003 11:55:09 AM EDT
The venerable old Coleman camp stoves have opeerated for generations on 'white gas' or Coleman fuel. These stoves burned cleanly and efficiently. The newer stoves are now being labeled 'Dual-Fuel', meaning not only will they run on 'white-gas', but also Unleaded fuel. I have recently purchased a two burner stove, and confirmed that, yes indeed, it does work with Regular Unleaded. The stove seemed to light, warm-up, and burn normally, on Unleaded, and there didn't seem to be any funny color and odor to the operation. Is there any reason why Unleaded should be avoided in favor of 'white-gas'? What about the stoves was changed in order to allow it to burn Unleaded? Any Coleman 'gurus' out there?
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 11:57:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2003 12:02:08 PM EDT by cyanide]
Yo, the unleaded will clog things sooner than the white gas, use it only when you have to. Edit to add: the reason why is auto gas has stuff in it to lube a engine and such, it will clog the orifice and need cleaned much sooner than just using white gas (Coleman fuel)
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 12:01:04 PM EDT
I can help you here. The difference between the two stoves, dual fuel and not, is essentially the "generator" part, and the apparatus that delivers the gas to it, i.e. the "pump housing". You see, white gas, Coleman or not, is highly refined, and thusly the equipment made just for it is highly tuned, to very exact tolerances, as the gas is extremely pure. Gasoline, on the other hand, is quite "dirty" in comparison. Thusly, dual fuel appliances have "relaxed" tolerances, but they are done in such a way as to allow for similar results as with the more refined gas. All told, performance is SOMEWHAT lowert than on the exclusive gas models, but not much. If you burn a lot of regular gas, however, be prepared to be replacing generators and other elements on a more regular basis than the other models. Hope this helped!
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 12:38:03 PM EDT
So would running white gas through the stove tend to clean out the system of any unleaded crap? I guess I'll stick to white, but I need to switch what is currently in the tank!
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 12:44:26 PM EDT
I always thought the unleaded option was a backup. A situation where you couldn't get white gas, but not necessarily for full time use. Considering the additives in vehicle gas, I would stick to white gas. Hovering over it cooking would be like staring into the tailpipe of an idling vehicle.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 12:44:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2003 12:47:32 PM EDT by raf]
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 12:45:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Torf: So would running white gas through the stove tend to clean out the system of any unleaded crap? I guess I'll stick to white, but I need to switch what is currently in the tank!
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Don't worry about it, changing the gas I mean, it takes a few runs to clog things up, I know I have done it, run it out or mix it, but I would not use auto gas unless in a pinch.and even then it ain't as bad as it sounds. Just not a prefered course.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 12:50:58 PM EDT
The best part about dual/tri fuel stoves is you can use them in Europe -- more of a backpacker thing, really. Of course, most airlines won't let you carry a used stove. Worst part is gas does not store well. Don't leave that unleaded in there. Use it up. You don't want your stove running like your lawnmower after sitting for 6 months with a tank of gas. OTOH, white gas stores for a loooooooong time.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 12:54:54 PM EDT
Thanks for all the replies! I really like white gas, but it is a little expensive compared to regular. I'll be using mostly white from now on! As for storage, it DOES last forever. We have a can of it in Colorado that is over 10 years old. Last summer it ran flawlessly through our MSR stoves!
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 2:47:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2003 2:49:38 PM EDT by warlord]
Originally Posted By rileyindy: Worst part is gas does not store well. Don't leave that unleaded in there. Use it up. You don't want your stove running like your lawnmower after sitting for 6 months with a tank of gas. OTOH, white gas stores for a loooooooong time.
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Well not exactly, personally for me, I bought some of the white box brand of white-gas, and when I went to use it a year later, it smelled like lacquer. I also have another brand, Chevron, and it lasted for years. I think the cheaper house brands may not have gasoline preservatives present, so if you use the cheapie fuels like I do, put some fuel preservative in it.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 3:39:54 PM EDT
Coleman fuel is actually naphtha. Naphtha is refined one more step then gasoline and is always the preferred fuel. Coleman fuel also has additives to help prevent rusting of internal parts and facilitate a long shelf life. I would only use unleaded gas if the Coleman fuel was not available. Gasoline must also be used within a few months of buying it depending on how it is stored. I have used Coleman fuel that was stored for many years without a problem. You should always use a filter when filling up the fuel tank. Even extremely small amounts of dirt will screw things up.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 4:13:42 PM EDT
not to hijack...but is the preference then towards fuel over propane????
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 4:33:00 PM EDT
No. Propane is preferable to gasoline in almost all cases. The only problem with propane may be its availability in some situations.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 4:34:02 PM EDT
I used unleaded gasoline exclusivley in my old Coleman stove. It was made before unleaded gas was forced upon us. I never had a problem with it and it would still be running had it not rusted to pieces. I used it in my candle making buisness for a few years too. We dipped many a beeswax candle over that old stove.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 5:05:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2003 5:06:49 PM EDT by TomJefferson]
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 7:03:32 PM EDT
Somewhere there is a good website for gas stove-heads, but I lost the URL. GunLvr
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 8:30:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By rkbar15: No. Propane is preferable to gasoline in almost all cases. The only problem with propane may be its availability in some situations.
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I drove a fork lift that ran off a 5 gal propane tank. One of the jobs required 10-15 minutes outside on the loading dock in the evening. In the winter, when the temperature was in the low 30's, the propane did not vaporize sufficiently, and if you shut the engine off, or it died while idling, you COULD NOT get it started again. This happened a lot. So I would not recommend propane ANYTHING for cool or cold weather, though it's probably better than butane. One source told me that propane works OK down to 0 degrees F, but I'm doubtful of that. Maybe down to the mid 30's It would be real unfortunate and possibly deadly coming back to camp after dark, counting on a hot meal, only to find that you can't get the stove to go. But of course you wouldn't be out there without another means of building a fire, would you? To those of you who have a tank feeding the appliances or heating at home, I guess there is enough tubing inside on the interior to warm it up enough to function OK. I will say this: if you are a total stooge when it comes to working with gasoline, maybe a propane stove / lantern is the safe way for mild to cool weather (or if young people are going to use it). With a gas stove, have someone show you how to safely remedy the flooding situation which produces the tall, sooty yellow flame. The problem is that even after the flame dies down, there is usually pooling of fuel inside the burner assembly, and that has to be safely removed before you give it another try.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 8:50:17 PM EDT
Can you safely use white gas indoors?
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 9:04:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2003 9:05:10 PM EDT by prk]
Between the oxygen consumption by the flame and the combustion by-products like carbon monoxide for starters, NO.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 9:28:06 PM EDT
Frankly, I'm still having trouble with the concept of civilians running around with DUAL burner camp stoves, let alone DUAL-fuel camp stoves. cynic
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 9:45:03 PM EDT
Ahhh, the smell of Coleman fuel. Brings back childhood camping/fishing memories!
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 5:41:09 AM EDT
I had a Coleman dual fuel for many years and used nothing but unleaded fuel. It never got clogged, and never needed a part in 8 years of service. And all it got was a good hot soapy water wipe down before it got packed away til next time. If it wasn't for the sleek new propane stove Coleman came out with that has a built in grill/ griddle I'd still be using the old beast. BTW, it's still in service with my brother in law after another 3 years.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 6:07:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By darwindog: I had a Coleman dual fuel for many years and used nothing but unleaded fuel. It never got clogged, and never needed a part in 8 years of service. And all it got was a good hot soapy water wipe down before it got packed away til next time. If it wasn't for the sleek new propane stove Coleman came out with that has a built in grill/ griddle I'd still be using the old beast. BTW, it's still in service with my brother in law after another 3 years.
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Yeah, was it real gas or ethanol gas ????
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 6:31:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By prk: Between the oxygen consumption by the flame and the combustion by-products like carbon monoxide for starters, NO.
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I... [>:/] ...don't get it
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 6:40:26 AM EDT
My Coleman stove was made in 1973. It was used by a local man for many years to cook at local gatherings. He was known countywide for his culinary talent and even wrote a few cookbooks. His widow gave it to me a few years ago. It is still running strong. They are great appliances. Why is propane better?
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 6:43:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2003 1:43:55 PM EDT by warlord]
Originally Posted By reconBYfire: not to hijack...but is the preference then towards fuel over propane????
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That depends, if you don't encounter extremely cold temps to me propane is most convenient. In colder areas of the USA where the temps get real cold you're going to have problems keeping a propane stove lit, whereas in the temperate climates of So. Calif(L.A., San Diego), where temps don't get below 30°F you're good. Unlike untreated gasoline which has a limited shelf-life, propane is that it lasts indefinitely.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 7:58:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 9:50:17 AM EDT
Propane is usually safest. It is also more convenient and then only whent the temps are moderate. White Gas is the most efficient and can get you more bang for the buck and size than the other fuels. Unfortunately the liquid fuels can spill etc. Go to a real outdoor camping store and compare. If I ever buy another stove for outdoor use it'l be dual fuel.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 10:54:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 1:47:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By rileyindy: The best part about dual/tri fuel stoves is you can use them in Europe -- more of a backpacker thing, really. Of course, most airlines won't let you carry a used stove.
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WHy won't the airlines let you carry on board a used stove?? I think as long as you aren't carrying any flammable fuel, it should be okay.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 4:37:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By prk:
Originally Posted By rkbar15: No. Propane is preferable to gasoline in almost all cases. The only problem with propane may be its availability in some situations.
View Quote
I drove a fork lift that ran off a 5 gal propane tank. One of the jobs required 10-15 minutes outside on the loading dock in the evening. In the winter, when the temperature was in the low 30's, the propane did not vaporize sufficiently, and if you shut the engine off, or it died while idling, you COULD NOT get it started again. This happened a lot. So I would not recommend propane ANYTHING for cool or cold weather, though it's probably better than butane. One source told me that propane works OK down to 0 degrees F, but I'm doubtful of that. Maybe down to the mid 30's It would be real unfortunate and possibly deadly coming back to camp after dark, counting on a hot meal, only to find that you can't get the stove to go. But of course you wouldn't be out there without another means of building a fire, would you? To those of you who have a tank feeding the appliances or heating at home, I guess there is enough tubing inside on the interior to warm it up enough to function OK. I will say this: if you are a total stooge when it comes to working with gasoline, maybe a propane stove / lantern is the safe way for mild to cool weather (or if young people are going to use it). With a gas stove, have someone show you how to safely remedy the flooding situation which produces the tall, sooty yellow flame. The problem is that even after the flame dies down, there is usually pooling of fuel inside the burner assembly, and that has to be safely removed before you give it another try.
View Quote
I have both white gas and propane stoves and lanterns. I have used propane in below freezing temperatures but if you're camping in below zero temps you'll need to use a white gas stove. The small backpacker butane stoves are only good to around 40 degrees unless you use a butane/propane blend. You should always have a multi fuel option in cold weather. A wood burning stove is generally best if you have access to dry wood because it has no mechanical parts to break.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 8:06:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By warlord:
Originally Posted By rileyindy: The best part about dual/tri fuel stoves is you can use them in Europe -- more of a backpacker thing, really. Of course, most airlines won't let you carry a used stove.
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WHy won't the airlines let you carry on board a used stove?? I think as long as you aren't carrying any flammable fuel, it should be okay.
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Sorry Warlord. Missed your question. Some airlines have decided that if it has ever contained fuel, it will always contain fuel. Not saying it makes sense or jives with FAA rules. Here's a thread about it at backpacking.net [url]http://www.backpacking.net/forums/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=geartalk&Number=19131&page=&view=&sb=&o=[/url]
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 8:22:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2003 8:29:01 PM EDT by warlord]
Originally Posted By rileyindy:
Originally Posted By warlord:
Originally Posted By rileyindy: The best part about dual/tri fuel stoves is you can use them in Europe -- more of a backpacker thing, really. Of course, most airlines won't let you carry a used stove.
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WHy won't the airlines let you carry on board a used stove?? I think as long as you aren't carrying any flammable fuel, it should be okay.
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Sorry Warlord. Missed your question. Some airlines have decided that if it has ever contained fuel, it will always contain fuel. Not saying it makes sense or jives with FAA rules. Here's a thread about it at backpacking.net [url]http://www.backpacking.net/forums/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=geartalk&Number=19131&page=&view=&sb=&o=[/url]
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This is sorta like the BATF's "once a machine gun always a machine gun" nonsense.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 8:30:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TomJefferson: By far, the alcohol is best. There are no toxic fumes, low weight to carry, and no temp limits. You can cook in a closed tent in the winter no problem or use it as a heater if careful about 02 depeletion. Downsides are stove cost is high and fuel is high at around $7 a gallon. Unlike gas though a gallon will last 10X as long. This also has a handling issue due to flamible liquids etc.
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Additional plus with alky is that you can use water to safely extinguish an alcohol fire if it gets out of hand...a big no-no with petro-based fuels. I currently use a dual-fuel Coleman & I have a propane adapter if I camp out of the truck. If I backpack, propane is a pita because you have little warning whey the bottle is almost gone, bottles for backpacking are pricey, and they're heavy. If you backpack, check out some of the lightweight MSR stoves...coleman, leaded, kerosene, diesel, etc. -hanko
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