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Posted: 6/4/2003 12:43:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2003 1:09:59 AM EDT by 19119640]
Smart men know better. Buy a Harley But the best Ride a mile Walk the rest. Nothing but Jap/German bikes here. Course my truck better be made in America!
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 12:50:28 AM EDT
So I take it you're itching for a long unwinnable argument? I'm a Honda man myself.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 1:01:28 AM EDT
I'm not biased for/against any particular brand (I have one brother who will only buy Hondas), but cruisers just don't float my boat, regardless brand. The only cruiser style bike that even vaguely interests me is the FatBoy, but even then I'd only buy a cruiser if I had money to burn. As a HD owner I know once said: "They run really well after they've been rebuilt" (although he was probably talking about the imfamous AMF models). I did note with some amusement back in the late 90's HD sold off the machinery it had been using to make 1000 lb bomb casings (the type dropped by warplanes. HD was earning extra subcontracting money by making the steel bomb casings for someone with a contract to supply bombs to the US military). Kind of fitting in a perverse sort of way. [;D]
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 1:02:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2003 1:03:59 AM EDT by raven]
[:)] I can sort of understand the Harley mystique, doesn't mean I like the bikes. Same way some people are Toby Keith fans. I can see what they see.....it's just not my cup of tea.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 1:06:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Gabriel: So I take it you're itching for a long unwinnable argument? I'm a Honda man myself.
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Right on! Unwinnable? Naw. I'm always right! [}:D]
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 1:08:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2003 1:48:26 AM EDT by rileyindy]
Say "show me your tits" to some chick while sitting on your -- [image]http://www.geocities.com/honda_helix/xz_left_side_side_THUMB.jpg[/image] and see where that gets you.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 1:11:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2003 1:35:53 AM EDT by 19119640]
Hey, Helix's are cool man! Wouldn't mine owning one. I don't have to say, "show me your tits" when I pull up on a BMW K1200GT, they just do it on there own. [img]http://www.hapscycle.com/motorcycles/BMW/2003/K1200GT/K1200%20GT%208322.jpg[/img] Wuss
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 1:24:08 AM EDT
I do not own one, but for what I am interested in, I would want a Suzuki. Hayabusa GSXR1000 GSXR750
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 1:35:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By newbushmaster: I do not own one, but for what I am interested in, I would want a Suzuki. Hayabusa GSXR1000 GSXR750
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You like speed I take it? High speed low drag. Too bad our bodies aren't.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 1:41:50 AM EDT
Just Curious, have you ever been in the Harley Plant? I have. [:D] I have also been in the Honda Goldwing and ATV plant. Qualtity Control is quite different. Not knocking the Harley, but the AMERICANS working at the Honda Plant take more pride in making sure the product is right.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 1:55:14 AM EDT
in my garage: '68 Norton Commando Fastback '00 Suzuki SV650 projects '69 Honda SL350 (got it free at a tag sale, just needs tires and a battery) '72 Norton Commando Roadster I'm not and never will be suffering from a midlife crisis, so I don't need to buy an identity by buying a harley. I don't have much use for motorcycles that; don't handle, don't stop, and I despise the whole "cruiser" look anyway.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 2:26:02 AM EDT
In case anyone wants to know who tipped the scales on the votes,that would be me.I had a Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 A model than started to run good at 80mph. I still have my Harley and probably will for some time.A 1980 Harley Davidson Wideglide that is 99%.Hard to find in that condition. My Harley is the last AMF bike made and runs great.With 8600 original miles,it's never had a wrench on it. I don't know how to post a photo here.Can someone tell me how???? I have netscape 7.0 so that should help.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 2:46:59 AM EDT
I cast a null vote - no catagory for Victory Motorcycle the best American made bike today!
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 2:47:35 AM EDT
You put Aprilia in your title but you don't have a poll for it. I for one own an Aprilia RST 1000.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 3:09:05 AM EDT
Did you know that 80% of the Harley's made are still on the road? The other 20% made it home! Hah! I slay me! Hello? Is there anybody there? Is this thing working? Hello? My Moose is a '98 Kawasaki VN1500E Vulcan Classic. I really can't dog Harleys on performance because the 1500E isn't a quick bike by any means (However, I'm going to eventually do the Coyote Kit mod to the intake system...). When I was shopping for a bike I picked out a Harley, doing my initial research on their website. Then when I started to talk to dealers they were tacking $3-$5K on top of MSRP. I would just lose too much self respect letting somebody hose me like that. So, if it wasn't for the dealers gouging the consumers I'd be on a Harley now. However, I had to choose between an H-D or feeding my kids. Now, where did I put that Victory brochure...?
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 3:38:14 AM EDT
I've never seen a Harley involved in an accident. I've never seen a Harley rider with a passenger duck and weave through traffic. I've never seen a Harley rider do a 'wheelie' for a half-block through traffic at rush hour or any other hour. I've never seen a Harley rider doing 100+ mph on the freeway coming from out of nowhere. ALL the Harley riders I've observed seem to know they are riding a MOTORCYCLE. I HAVE SEEN plenty of import bikes and their riders DOWN and sometimes OUT. I'll have to go with the Harley riders on this one.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 3:43:09 AM EDT
Harley Davidson was bleeding cash, (much like the oil it's crankcases used to throw), until it went to Japan and learned how to make bikes the RIGHT way. Save 'yer change and get a ricer.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 3:46:28 AM EDT
Do you know what the difference between a Harley and a Hoover is.... location of the dirtbag! I would like to have a Harley, but then I would like to have a preban AUG too. I just can not afford either of them. But most of all, before I retire, I will have a BMW.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 4:10:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BusMaster007: I've never seen a Harley involved in an accident.
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I have, more than once.
I've never seen a Harley rider with a passenger duck and weave through traffic.
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ditto
I've never seen a Harley rider do a 'wheelie' for a half-block through traffic at rush hour or any other hour.
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never seen this either, but never on any type of bike.
I've never seen a Harley rider doing 100+ mph on the freeway coming from out of nowhere.
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I have
ALL the Harley riders I've observed seem to know they are riding a MOTORCYCLE.
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[rolleyes] some of the worst riders out there are riding harleys and other cruisers.
I HAVE SEEN plenty of import bikes and their riders DOWN and sometimes OUT. I'll have to go with the Harley riders on this one.
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[%|] whatever, and when the average poser on his chromed out cruiser does go down, they usually are hurt far worse because they are too cool to wear proper gear. My wife works in an emergency room on weekends and they see the results of way too many motorcycle accidents. Many of these are from geezers who buy a harley to try and regain their youth who crash between posing sessions as they are going from bar to bar.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 4:11:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2003 4:14:02 AM EDT by Phil_A_Steen]
Originally Posted By BusMaster007: I've never seen a Harley involved in an accident. [/size=3][red]I've never seen a baby pigeon but I know they're out there.[/red][/size=3] I've never seen a Harley rider with a passenger duck and weave through traffic. [size=3][red]I've seen that plenty[/red][/size=3] I've never seen a Harley rider do a 'wheelie' for a half-block through traffic at rush hour or any other hour. [size=3][red]Harley's can't wheelie, that's why[/red][/size=3] I've never seen a Harley rider doing 100+ mph on the freeway coming from out of nowhere. [size=3][red]Top speed on a Harley is quite a bit less than that, if you can stomach the bone jarring vibration.[/red][/size=3]
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Link Posted: 6/4/2003 4:15:23 AM EDT
I would love to have a Harley but only if someone gave it to me. It's about $6,000.00 over priced.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 4:21:01 AM EDT
I am currently in the 'talk my wife into the need for a motorcycle' mode. The ones I like are the HD FXDWG (the Dyna Wide Glide) and the Honda Shadow Spirit 1100. Comparing the two, I can't understand why I should spend $18000 on the HD when the Honda is gonna be around $9000. Both are very similar in looks and reliability probably goes to the Honda. So anyone have experience with either or both? If so, PLEASE e-mail me (don't want to hijack the thread) and give me the pros and cons of each. Thanks!!!
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 4:28:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 4:33:31 AM EDT
Im a big fan of Honda bikes. I like HDs too but they are way overpriced
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 4:36:04 AM EDT
Why is it that you never see the Harley riders posting threads putting down rice riders? Seriously, ride what you want, then grow up and quit with the "my toy is better/bigger/faster than yours" crap. My $.02
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 4:44:11 AM EDT
Peopple don't buy Harleys because they're fast or maneuverable or stop on a dime. People buy them because they're the coolest bike on the road. They're the perfect 1911 analogy. Design old as shit. Archaic really. Everything out there is more reliable out of the box/crate. Yet there are dozens of clone manufacturers, customizers, and modification parts. Entire industries have been built around trying to make old horses run like ponies. But...they're fun, and once you get them running they're pretty reliable, and that's pretty much all that matters to most owners. Harley did experience a big improvement in reliabliity, if not power, with the Evo engine. The Fat head twin cam engine is a slight improvement in some regards. The water cooled V Rod engine is not very Harley-like; ie: it's a pretty good engine. I don't ride for transportatiom. I ride for recreation. I have no interest in leaning over a bike to get from point A to point B in the shortest possible time. I'd rather get there in style. For riding in style, nothing beats a Harley. There's something to be said for taking your time: A young bull and an old bull were standing on a hill looking down at a herd of cows. The young bull says, "Let's run down there and fuck one of those cows!" The old bull says, "Let's walk down there and fuck them all." (1994 customized FXSTC)
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 4:57:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2003 5:12:43 AM EDT by CAMPYBOB]
i own harleys and an indian. my newest is a 1977 i bought off the showroom floor. so...i've been riding for a good many years. i also had a gsxr 1100...so i know how to drag a knee, too. [b]I've never seen a Harley involved in an accident.[/b] i've seen dozens of harleys go splat over the years...including the friend that killed himself on my brother's sportster. [b]I've never seen a Harley rider with a passenger duck and weave through traffic.[/b] ???? where do you live? i've seen harleys weave like a shriner in a parade. [b]I've never seen a Harley rider do a 'wheelie' for a half-block through traffic at rush hour or any other hour.[/b] you never rode with us, that's for sure. [b]I've never seen a Harley rider doing 100+ mph on the freeway coming from out of nowhere.[/b] i've never known a harley owner that hasn't topped the ton on multiple occasions.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 5:07:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2003 5:08:55 AM EDT by DriftPunch]
Originally Posted By C_Sly: Why is it that you never see the Harley riders posting threads putting down rice riders?
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You've got to be kidding! KODoc hit the nail on the head!
They're the perfect 1911 analogy. Design old as shit. Archaic really. Everything out there is more reliable out of the box/crate. Yet there are dozens of clone manufacturers, customizers, and modification parts. Entire industries have been built around trying to make old horses run like ponies. But...they're fun, and once you get them running they're pretty reliable, and that's pretty much all that matters to most owners.
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Part of the drive to buy a Harley is the image. Sometimes the image fits the buyer properly and thus he has found the bike that fits him. In this case, the image and lifestyle pre-existed. What you see now, is a lot of people proving to the Jones's that they still have a wild side. What better way to do it than to buy a loud chomed in your face type of motorcycle. What's funnier is that many hard core Harley fans have no clue just how obsolete and archaic the bike is... Their refusal to acknowledge the technological prowess of the competition makes them appear silly when arguing the point. This being said, I own a 1911, and I'd love to own a Harley. The problem with the Harley purchase is that they are unbeliveably overpriced.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 5:14:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By bulldog1967: Harley Davidson was bleeding cash, (much like the oil it's crankcases used to throw), until it went to Japan and learned how to make bikes the RIGHT way. Save 'yer change and get a ricer.
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Well, you're partially correct. But they went to GERMANY and not Japan to learn how to make bikes the right way. Check the avatar, Harley handed the V-Twin engine to Porche engineers and this is what Porche handed back! 104 bhp that can be upped to 120 bhp AT THE REAR TIRE with the Screamin' Eagle Stage 1 reprogram kit. Sure, there's always something faster just around the corner, but that goes for any for any bike on the road. And, how many people do you know with the words "Honda" or Yamaha tattooed to their body?
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 5:15:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2003 5:21:35 AM EDT by illigb]
Real men ride Cannondales! [img]http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/03/images/r5000_spec_03.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 5:16:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2003 5:20:02 AM EDT by norman74]
Originally Posted By C_Sly: Why is it that you never see the Harley riders posting threads putting down rice riders?
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Because every rice cruiser rider wishes they had a Harley? Seriously, look at this very thread, almost all the jap-cruiser riders have said "I wanted a Harley but..." What really cracks me up is the amount of disinformation and lies that come out of the Harley bashers. Let me correct some of the bullshit I've seen so far: [b]RE: MSRP.[/b] Lots of dealers sell at MSRP, either by special order or even off the floor. When my ex bought her bike we walked in and there was what she wanted for MSRP. Of course you're going to pay more in a market where there's more customers than bikes. Just like a preban rifle, if you really want it, you'll pay. Of course, you can always buy a used/older bike and get it for less. Problem is that alot of HD owners think their shit is worth way more than it is. [b]RE: reliablity.[/b] If I had a dollar for every jealous ricer that wishes he had a HD and uses the reliablity issue to rationalize why they don't have one I'd be a rich man. There is nothing wrong with modern HDs in terms of reliability. In fact, even the AMF bikes don't have design problems, it was quality control problems. A rebuilt AMF bike will run just as reliably as any other 20 year old bike on the road. [b]RE: HDs being slow.[/b] The fun of the HD is that ou start out with kind of a blank canvas, and you can make it what you want. With some elbow grease and a couple grand you can really make one haul ass. Will it corner as well as a GSXR? of course not, but it might just keep up in a straight line. Most traditional HD owners are born tinkerers, and for that there really is nothing better than an HD. [b]RE: Harleys can't wheelie.[/b] Better call up Hot Bike magazine and tell them that. I've seen several pics in that mag of HDs with the front wheel off the ground. They might not be going 100 yards like that, but that's ok, that's not the point. [b]RE: Harley riders are old, rich, primadonnas.[/b] I'm 28 and ride a Harley, and I'm far from rich. In terms of showboating, I find it ironic that the same little dick that has to do a wheelie on I-95 for half a mile in rush hour traffic thinks that Harleys are all about show. I personally am just obsessed with bikes in general. My old avatar was a Ducati chopper. I have toyed with the idea of a Ducati Monster, and Hayabusa, a GSXR, building a custom chopper, buying a different harley, getting an on/offroad bike, etc. I just have certain ideas of what brand you should buy if you want a certain product. You want a revolver? buy a S&W. Want a stock 1911? buy a Colt. Want a tricked out 1911? buy a Kimber. Want a crotch rocket? Buy a jap bike. Want a crotch rocket with some class? Buy an italian bike. Want a grandpa type touring bike? Buy a BMW. If you want a cruiser, you buy a Harley Davidson. Anything else is just a copy.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 5:33:00 AM EDT
Harley riders are just as bad/good as other riders. Any belief otherwise is just ignorant, silly, or stupid pride. I have a 89FLSTC which is used for the commute due to the carpool lanes. Yes, I'm not a fanatical polisher, poszer, or whatever. It doesn't have the overpriced, cheap import chrome additions. It gets me from point A to point B, but with a bit more wear and tear due to the quality of the ride. When the right bracket for the highway passing lamp broke off, it wasn't a trip to the local dealer or catalog to buy a overpriced replaced. It was time to break out the Miller MIG welder. This is the harley riders of old according to Sonny Barger's book. Would I buy another one? No, I would want something more reliable.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 5:37:03 AM EDT
damn, norman 74 hit the nail on the head!!!! I've had a few bikes. Honda CB450, Suzuki GS750B, Triumph TR6R (Tiger),Harley XLCR (Cafe racer, should have kept it!!!) Harley 1200 Sporty, and now a Softail. I love the Harley's. they hold their value, ARE reliable, and parts are easily avilable. Try finding parts for your 20 year old Honda sometime!!!And don't tell me they never need them. When your 20 year old Honda needs some major work, it's usually found behind the shed, or in a scrapyard. Parts can be found for old Harley's at the dealers, or aftermarket. Bumped into a kid at arabica last night on a sweet 1996 blood red Ducati 900SS. Bought it from a guy who couldn't handle it, spent only $4,000. It was a beauty. A guy at lodge has a V-rod, don't care for the looks, or sound....
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 5:38:35 AM EDT
so any of you harley folks comming to Milwaukee in August?
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 5:43:54 AM EDT
Observing riders out on the road I've seen that idiocy has no brand loyalty. There are stupid, untrained, inattentive, clueless people on almost every brand of bike. I will say that BMW riders tend to be more professional on average about the sport. The reason they linked the rear brake pedal to the front brakes on the Gold Wing is because so many Wing riders weren't using the front brake. I've seen many iminent organ donors on sport bikes who have more testosterone & horsepower than sense. I've seen guys on Harleys & the other $30K+ customs that figured all it took to be a real biker was to spend a lot of money on a motorcycle. We kid around a lot, busting on folks for the brand of what they ride, but it's all in fun (Except when the Harley guys get sensitive! [;)] ). In the end, if you're on two wheels we have the same people trying to kill us. The cager crossing the centerline doesn't care one whit about what name is on the side of your gas tank. Get trained. Be safe out there. THINK while you're riding. The only person looking out for your personal well-being is you.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 5:49:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By photoman: so any of you harley folks comming to Milwaukee in August?
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I'm not into all that crap, but I've toyed with the idea of going. That's one bike event that I might like to see. Problem is most of the reason I go to bike events is to check out the custom bikes, and I don't expect too many of those at that event.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 5:53:44 AM EDT
hey photoman, Yes!!!!!!!!! Me and a lodge brother will be staying in lake geneva. we'll be up a few days before, and staying for a few days after. Thekill plans to set up a shoot with us. maybe that would be a good opportunity to set up a group shoot with some of the guys from WI.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 6:02:40 AM EDT
I actually ride the most american made motorcycle. 1997 Honda Shadow ACE. 100% manufactured and assembled in Marysville OH. Used to be a Harley guy but they just don't last. Nothing like rebuilding top ends every 10 to 20K. Don't get me wrong Harley makes a beautiful bike but $20,000...I think not. I don't and never did descriminate against any biker reguardless of what they owned as long as they were on 2 wheels.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 6:10:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mmsig229: hey photoman, Yes!!!!!!!!! Me and a lodge brother will be staying in lake geneva. we'll be up a few days before, and staying for a few days after. Thekill plans to set up a shoot with us. maybe that would be a good opportunity to set up a group shoot with some of the guys from WI.
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Group shoot is the reason I was asking. I was at the 95th it rocked. I covered it as part of a journalism class while in college. The custom bikes that were around the 95th were some of the most outrageous, slickest, sickest, badassed I want one now bikes i've ever seen. I think I still have pics around someplace.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 6:28:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2003 6:30:17 AM EDT by DriftPunch]
Originally Posted By norman74: [b]RE: MSRP.[/b] Problem is that alot of HD owners think their shit is worth way more than it is.
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Indeed!
[b]RE: HDs being slow.[/b] The fun of the HD is that ou start out with kind of a blank canvas, and you can make it what you want. With some elbow grease and a couple grand you can really make one haul ass. Will it corner as well as a GSXR? of course not, but it might just keep up in a straight line. Most traditional HD owners are born tinkerers, and for that there really is nothing better than an HD.
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This is what gets me with Harley. They are marketing geniuses. Who else can get away with providing mundane factory performance and spin it as a benefit because now YOU can spend thousands on licensed Harley performance parts. Woo Hoo! The HD engine is just wrong for pure performance. Can it be made powerful? Yup. Can it compete with a GSXR in the straights? Not a friggin chance! One can make a Camaro "fast", but having a quicker time in the 1/4 mile than a Porsche 911 and getting its ass kicked in every other measurement doesn't equate to a competitive vechile.
[b]RE: Harley riders are old, rich, primadonnas.[/b] I'm 28 and ride a Harley, and I'm far from rich. In terms of showboating, I find it ironic that the same little dick that has to do a wheelie on I-95 for half a mile in rush hour traffic thinks that Harleys are all about show.
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One has to have a certain amount of disposable income to play with bikes (much like guns) and one needs even more to play with Harleys.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 6:38:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RAMBOSKY: I would love to have a Harley but only if someone gave it to me. It's about $6,000.00 over priced.
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That's how I got my FatBoy. Why anyone would spend $30k on a bike is beyond me. (All that extra chrome and custom paint runs the price up pretty fast.)
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 6:41:52 AM EDT
Harley owners exist on a separate plane of purchased arrogance. The particular aspect of their so-called "rugged individualism" I enjoy observing the most is the fact that they all base their clothing to try and "fit in". If you break it down - it's a uniform really. And the fact that most of them would only seem to fit in a Village People's reunion concert doesn't slow them down one bit - and I can respect that. I live in Harley Hell. I ride in Milwaukee and choose to own a Honda Magna. This means I spend a lot of time behind H-Ds looking for chances to pass. Do I enjoy going out and riding around during the frequent mammoth H-D Anniversary celebrations? Yes and no; it's bittersweet. Sure, they'll wave at you all friendly-like if they're at a distance, but pull up next to them at a stop light and once they realize that you're not special like they are, they won't even make eye contact with you. Time and time again it has been proven to me that the average H-D rider is just a simple fucking choad. They're as tough up close in person as their "Made in Taiwan" frilly leather chaps. Some things about the previous posts I'd like to address: "The whole 'show me your tits' thing" --- Well, I saw plenty at the 95th H-D anniversary rally and now realize that they don't refer to themselves as "Hogettes" for nothing. Seriously, as far as the average set of tits on the back of the average H-D goes… I can get more sexual gratification out of an old copy of National Geographic. Sweetie, once the nipples start pointing south, keep them safe, secure and away from the eyes of the many children walking around Milwaukee in broad day light. If you want to feel free and wild, start by freeing yourself from the Roseanne Barr 12-pack-a-day diet. "The H-D design is a classic" --- If by "classic" you mean, "designing" the Evo engine after the one found on the Suzuki 1400 Intruder, then I guess I can't comprehend the word (Dude, it's a H-D thing). "I've never seen a Harley rider have an accident/lane weave/wheelie/be cruel to animals/ not remember to say please and thank you" --- I've seen them dropped personally at least twice in the last year: once I saw a yuppie plop his ride over pulling into a parking spot at a grocery store as he was going at the break-neck speed of 0.5 MPH. And the second was a shit wagon with a passenger trying to merge off of an on ramp that had a couple hundred feet of those rumble ridges separating lanes. Despite the fact that they were painted bright yellow, the dude felt the need to cross over them in a hurry. The ridges aren't even an inch tall and those H-D touring set-ups are about as hard to drive as golf carts, but like most recent H-D enthusiasts, the guy obviously didn't have any skills. He freaked out and locked up both brakes and he and his "old lady" made an unplanned dismount. They were probably doing 40 MPH when it happened and from what I saw in my mirror, as they tumbled they both did a good job of keeping their heads from hitting the pavement. And that's good, because in true H-D fashion THEY WEREN'T WEARING FUCKING HELMETS!!! Yep. I guess I'll never appreciate or understand the mystique and awe of Harley Pride.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 6:54:14 AM EDT
1998 1000cc Honda VTR "Superhawk" See my Pic
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 6:58:26 AM EDT
Ya'll Harley bashers like to talk about how HD owners are making up for inadequecies. What inadequacies are you making up for by bashing HD? I never have understood the rabid looks on the faces of non-HD riders when they are bashing HD. It's really pretty sad. In terms of needing $20k for a HD, I think not. I know lots of guys that make about $30k a year that ride Harleys. Maybe you should ask one of them how they can afford a $20k bike. Factory "go fast" parts are typically the last thing you want to use if you're looking for HP. Because of this your argument that they just want to sell you more parts is bullshit. If I wanted a gofast sporty I'd buy an 883 and do a 1250 upgrade from Nallin Racing. Almost all of the parts in his kit are either aftermarket or modified-factory parts. HD ain't makin one red cent off that deal. What's mostly being posted on both sides of this argument is shit that's true for SOME of the riders in either camp. SOME crotch rocket riders are arrogant little pricks that do wheelies on I95 in Miami when riding around with all the drunks in cages. SOME of the HD riders are guys having a midlife crisis and trying to capture some lost rebelliousness that they never lived out when they were young. SOME jap-cruiser riders really wish they had a Harley, but due to the excessive cost (most of which is perceived BTW and not real) they don't. We can all make generalities all day long about one another, and somewhere there will be someone that stereotype fits. What we're failing to do is look at the positives of each type of rider. SOME crotch rocket guys set an extremely good example in terms of safety gear. Helmets, gloves, jackets, boots. SOME of the HD riders know more about turning a wrench than any jap rider ever will. No matter what kind of bike you ride there are certain common elements that can be learned from talking to these old timers. SOME of the jap-cruisers are easier to start and ride smoother than alot of Harleys. They are nice to ride bikes out of the box and neither need nor want any sort of modification. We're all two-wheelers fighting cagers, so let's try and act like it. I pull up next to guys on crotch rockets all the time and ask questions about their bikes, how fast they've ridden, how they like the bike, etc. For the most part they've been friendly and answered my questions. I've also had alot of crotch rocket guys pull up and ask me questions about my HD. I try to be friendly and answer their questions as well.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 7:03:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2003 7:08:01 AM EDT by Dave_A]
Simple question here: Can you find a HD bike for under $200, needing only a simple carb cleaning to get going again? No... HD's, even parts bikes, rarely break $1,000... Case closed, I got an 82 Suzuki GS... Harley is too expensive, for what you get... They're no more reliable than any of the other major brands, and most of what you're buying is the name/image... However, I will NEVER buy a Japanese car... I'm a GM owner for life, or untill I can't get a used or new RWD GM car (not truck, not SUV, it's gotta be a car) with a 350 V8...
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 7:12:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 7:14:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2003 7:27:59 AM EDT by norman74]
Originally Posted By Dave_A: Simple question here: Can you find a HD bike for under $200, needing only a simple carb cleaning to get going again? No... HD's, even parts bikes, rarely break $1,000... Case closed, I got an 82 Suzuki GS...
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If what you want is an 82 suzuki gs then yay for you. But you're not comparing apples to apples. Harley didn't make anything in 1982 in the market segment of your bike, so how can you compare the two? If you wanted to compare apples to apples, you'd find a bike of the same year that had the same displacement and was the same engine configuration, at the very least. How about you look around and find a Japanese 1300cc 1995 Vtwin aircooled with hidden rear shocks and compare that to a 1995 HD Softail?
Harley is too expensive, for what you get... They're no more reliable than any of the other major brands, and most of what you're buying is the name/image...
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It's also in the quality of the parts/build. I'll give you an example. Not that this is apples to apples, but it's close enough. A friend of mine is looking at the Honda Shadow Spirit 750. Nice bike. I love the way it looks (with some exeptions). [img]http://www.hondamotorcycle.com/assets/images/model/model_hero_shot/motorcycles/2003/small/Spirit750_candy_dark_red_famel.jpg[/img] I've seen lots of Sportsters built up that look alot like it, with the chopped rear fender and all. Price?[url=http://www.hondamotorcycle.com/motorcycles/Cruiser_Standard/model.asp?ModelName=Shadow+Spirit+750&ModelYear=2003&ModelId=VT750DCA3]$6k msrp[/url] Now, it's got a drum rear brake (what year is this again? and who's technologically behing?), plastic body panels that flex and wobble in the wind, and it's got that goddamn rolled edge under the gastank that just plain looks tacky. It's also water cooled (or oil, I don't remember, but it's got a radiator) and two carbs. This is all extra shit to brake, or, if you want to customize, extra shit to deal with. And if you do want to customize it, I hope you're a fabricator because there is virtually not aftermarket or factory support to ddo so. Now, the Sportster 883 that the Ace was so obviously trying to copy [img]http://www.harley-davidson.com/PR/MOT/2003/Sportster/XLH883/images/img_Sportster_XLH883_bc4e_1.jpg[/img] Price? [url=http://www.harley-davidson.com/PR/MOT/2003/03_SpecsPricing.asp?locale=en_US&bmLocale=en_US&WebLogicSession=2eLlr6Yqckp5WJ2aBOPXAmQUNNfZ4s3yGMYDaWUrAm7uM­eba9KCT!-1750609173!181237815!7005!8005!-1010462818!181237801!7005!8005&family=Sportster&model=XLH883&market=US]$6k msrp[/url] Disk brakes all around, one carb, air cooled, metal bodywork, no rolled edge on the gastank, and an aftermarket and factory list of customizing parts that you can't imagine. So I wouldn't say "overpriced". For the same money (actually the Harley lists a couple of dollars less) you get a bike with a much better quality of parts.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 7:43:19 AM EDT
I see it as simple economics. You will buy what you want IF you can afford it. I have HD's & an Indian. I have had jap bikes, but didn't like them. I allways wanted & liked HD. This arguement is just like the Mossberg & Savage owners justifying their cheaper weapons as being just as good as a Remington. They do a similar job, but without the class & style. There are better bikes for specific uses than HD. You wouldn't take a sportster off roading. The Buell isn't as fast as the habayusa. But bottom line is that almost all of todays jap bike cruisers are copying HD in some fashion. All you guys bashing HD are probably bitter because you couldn't put the resources into your bike to have the HD. Even if not, and you really did want a cheaper bike, your resale value is for shit compared to what the HD will bring. Normans example from above is very telling on a NEW bike. Look at what they will be worth in 2 years.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 7:47:36 AM EDT
You can put me in the don't have a HD don't really want a HD group. [b]With some elbow grease and a couple grand you can really make one haul ass. Will it corner as well as a GSXR? of course not, but it might just keep up in a straight line[/b] My bike, a Honda VTR, will haul ass out of the box without adding a couple grand and it even corners well. Although I could modify it for more performance, I don't have to the manufacturer did it right. BTW if you can do 164mph then you can keep up with me. Most of my friends with HDs seem to top out around 90mph with mods.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 7:51:05 AM EDT
TomJefferson: Yep. The Dragon isn't really the appropriate place to get aggressive with a cruiser. The cornering clearance on my Moose is pretty limited- I start dragging metal a lot earlier than I'd like. Like Clint said, "A man's gotta know his limitations." A friend of mine strapped his camcorder onto his tank bag and rode the Dragon on his GSXR-1000. That's a cool tape, but I wouldn't be able to keep up with him!
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 7:53:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JIMBEAM: Most of my friends with HDs seem to top out around 90mph with mods.
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Then your friends are either chicken, riding the wrong HD, or doing the wrong mods. Ironically, it's probably the last one. People do some stupid-ass shit to HDs in the effort to get them to go fast without understanding one goddamn thing about how to make an HD go fast. Drag pipes are the surest way to make your Harley slower.
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