Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 6/2/2003 1:19:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2003 1:28:06 PM EDT by lonegunman]
What a shitty movie, at the end the happily announce that 1500 rounds were fired in the event, if that included bad guys those guys fvcking SUCK. That means the cops dribbled out a whopping 4 rounds each maybe,,,,,,,,, If it was the total for the LEO's then that still means one mag per cop if they were lucky. Then they have the typical anti-gun rant in a gun store that offers to help them. If a single one of those greazy headed posers could shoot that would have never happened. Our HEROS, never coordinated a single attack or returned fire in a coordinated manner. They hid during lulls in firing, they appear to have no first aid kits and all they could do was yell in the radios about body armor and AK47's, no useful information was relayed according to the show,,, just babbling cowards and none of them had sense to go next door and ask for a 300 win mag and a box of shells, implying they are to stupid to use bolt rifles. I hope they were not as stupid and useless as the profess to be in that movie.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 1:26:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By lonegunman: What a shitty movie, at the end the happily announce that 1500 rounds were fired in the event, if that included bad guys those guys fvcking SUCK. That means the cops dribbled out a whopping 4 rounds each maybe,,,,,,,,, If it was the total for the LEO's then that still means one mag per cop if they were lucky. Then they have the typical anti-gun rant in a gun store that offers to help them. If a single one of those greazy headed posers could shoot that would have never happened. Our HEROS, never coordinated a single attack or returned fire in a coordinated manner. They hid during lulls in firing, they appear to have no first aid kits and all they could do was yell in the radios about body armor and AK47's, no useful information was relayed according to the show,,, just babbling cowards and none of them had sense to go next door and ask for a 300 win mag and a box of shells, implying they are to stupid to use bolt rifles. I hope they were not a stupid as useless as the profess to be in that movie.
View Quote
WOW,someone else had EXACTLY the same thoughts I did!!
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 1:39:59 PM EDT
That's something I NEVER understood. WTF didn't some cop sniper eliminate these guys with two well-placed shots to the head? Hell, even shots to the chest would have dropped them is the caliber was large enough! Anyone know the answer to this? BTW, I flipped back and forth into the movie for about 5 seconds each maybe four times. I knew it was going to be pure crap and I didn't want to waste any more than 20 seconds total on it. By what I've read here, looks like my decidion was a good one.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 1:40:08 PM EDT
nope that makes 3 of us..it would be one thing if it was JUST a movie..but there was WAY too much underlining messages in that movie..we all see it cause a movie like that directly effects us (gun owners) to reg. ppl, they say "yeah , we shouldnt allow those guns." but lil do they know we are the ones that will defend our homeland if "RedDAWN" ever really happened..movie sux..bout what i expected..
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 1:46:12 PM EDT
I was hoping that they would give some background on the bank robbers. Does anybody have any background on them? Like did they belong to any groups, were did they get the guns and did they have any training? Were they US citizen they had a accent on TV? The show was as anti gun as they could make it. I hope it got low ratings so we don't have to endear all of the reruns.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 1:47:05 PM EDT
I could'nt help but think it was gonna be a bunch of crap......So I did'nt even attempt to watch it......I guess my hunch was right!!!
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 1:47:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2003 1:52:58 PM EDT by byron2112]
I didn't bother watching the movie cause I figured it would reflect the title of your post pretty accuratly. I did always wonder why they went to a gunshop to grab a bunch of dry AR's(kinda week power considering the armor) and mags they had to load.Why not just grab a 30.06 or .300 win mag bolt gun with iron sights and end it? I don't remember everything about the perps,but I do remember that they were east european immigrants who were basically lifelong losers that couldn't provide for their families adequately in an honest fashion. I also remember it being said that they were frequently contemplating suicide according to those that new them.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 1:56:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ARK15: I was hoping that they would give some background on the bank robbers.
View Quote
Did the bother to mention that two of the guys were arrested in 1992 with a car full of guns after an armed robbery? The prosecutor dropped the gun charges in exchange for a guilty plea of misdemeanor theft. They spent 18 months in jail. When they got out they sued to get their guns returned to them and won.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 1:56:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ARK15: I was hoping that they would give some background on the bank robbers. Does anybody have any background on them? Like did they belong to any groups, were did they get the guns and did they have any training? Were they US citizen they had a accent on TV?
View Quote
I think one was the son of Romanian immigrants, and the other was Mexican-American I think. Just run of the mill thieves who had hard-ons for assault rifles and the movie "Heat". Hmmmm....there but for the grace of god go I, huh?
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 2:32:04 PM EDT
Actually they briefly mention that in a cut away moment. One of the detectives is talking to the camera after the fact and says. They had these guys arrested like 18 months ago, with a bunch of full auto ak's (or some such) in the car. They got put in jail,(doesn't explain on what charges,) and when they got out, they got their guns back, their lawyer said they needed them to sell so they could pay their legal fees, can you believe that. Mostly quoted but not quite.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 2:34:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 2:42:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By lonegunman: What a shitty movie, at the end the happily announce that 1500 rounds were fired in the event, if that included bad guys those guys fvcking SUCK. That means the cops dribbled out a whopping 4 rounds each maybe,,,,,,,,, If it was the total for the LEO's then that still means one mag per cop if they were lucky. Then they have the typical anti-gun rant in a gun store that offers to help them. If a single one of those greazy headed posers could shoot that would have never happened. Our HEROS, never coordinated a single attack or returned fire in a coordinated manner. They hid during lulls in firing, they appear to have no first aid kits and all they could do was yell in the radios about body armor and AK47's, no useful information was relayed according to the show,,, just babbling cowards and none of them had sense to go next door and ask for a 300 win mag and a box of shells, implying they are to stupid to use bolt rifles. I hope they were not as stupid and useless as the profess to be in that movie.
View Quote
I have forwarded this post to LAPD SWAT and they are speechless. A position within their department (Tactical Commander/Advisor) has been created and reserved for you. They are very impressed by your assessment of their performance and failings even if some of the ideas and concepts are somewhat foreign to them. When you arrive please be prepared to explain the following in length and detail: 1. Shot placement 2. Use of cover 3. Use of concealment 4. Coordinated attack 5. Coordinated defense 6. Coordination 7. Sniper rifle?!? 8. Tactical employment of high powered rifle 9. Defeating body armor 10. Defensive employment of body armor
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 2:45:38 PM EDT
If assualt rifles are so bad, and hi-capcity magazines are so evil, how come the bad guys didn't kill anyone with them? I know they wounded a bunch of people but the media and liberals always equate so called "assault rifles" with instant death.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 2:52:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Originally Posted By lonegunman: What a shitty movie, at the end the happily announce that 1500 rounds were fired in the event, if that included bad guys those guys fvcking SUCK. That means the cops dribbled out a whopping 4 rounds each maybe,,,,,,,,, If it was the total for the LEO's then that still means one mag per cop if they were lucky. Then they have the typical anti-gun rant in a gun store that offers to help them. If a single one of those greazy headed posers could shoot that would have never happened. Our HEROS, never coordinated a single attack or returned fire in a coordinated manner. They hid during lulls in firing, they appear to have no first aid kits and all they could do was yell in the radios about body armor and AK47's, no useful information was relayed according to the show,,, just babbling cowards and none of them had sense to go next door and ask for a 300 win mag and a box of shells, implying they are to stupid to use bolt rifles. I hope they were not as stupid and useless as the profess to be in that movie.
View Quote
I have forwarded this post to LAPD SWAT and they are speechless. A position within their department (Tactical Commander/Advisor) has been created and reserved for you. They are very impressed by your assessment of their performance and failings even if some of the ideas and concepts are somewhat foreign to them. When you arrive please be prepared to explain the following in length and detail: 1. Shot placement 2. Use of cover 3. Use of concealment 4. Coordinated attack 5. Coordinated defense 6. Coordination 7. Sniper rifle?!? 8. Tactical employment of high powered rifle 9. Defeating body armor 10. Defensive employment of body armor
View Quote
The LAPD cannot have him, because I forwarded the email to the United Nations, and they would like to make him Generallissimo in charge of Obvious Generalities and Perfect Hindsight.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 2:55:12 PM EDT
I think one dude was Columbian. Was one of the bad guys Oleg Taktarov from UFC????
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 3:00:43 PM EDT
I have forwarded this post to LAPD SWAT and they are speechless.
View Quote
They are probably impressed that someone AGREES with THEM. LAPD SWAT were the last people to arrive at the real life shooting, and I have never heard anyone fault their performance really. Their late arrival was not realy their fault but the simple nature of LA geography and traffic problems. For most of those 44 minutes it was patrolmen vs the robbers. Now LAPD Jet Rangers and MDD 500 series craft sport skid seats, and SWAT got a taxpayer funded trip to Fort Hood for them and the pilots to learn how to ride them from Delta Force (no joke, Clinton arranged this). So traffic won't be a problem anymore. And many LAPD helicopter observers have since visited Twenty-Nine palms to learn AIR GUNNERY from the Marines under a liberal interpretation of "military assistance for anti-narcotics efforts".
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 3:17:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 7:27:22 PM EDT
TomJefferson wrote [B]What really struck me bullshit and Hollywood aside is that the cops were indeed inept but so were the crooks. If these guys knew half as much about tactics as they did equipment that could have been alot worse.[/B] Playing what if here for a moment what if these two guys had been Platt and Matix(sp) from the Miami shootout? Where would our gun laws be today if these two really had use some tactics? This would have had the anti's howling even more than they already were.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 7:51:08 PM EDT
Please feel free to forward it, I actually have quite a bit of talent when it comes to anything pistol, rifle or shotgun related and I have 20 years in the military to back my theory up. I can support my positions on the use of all of them. As far as tactics and training, I have had some experience in that area as well. The basics of cover, fire and movement are taught in most of the military. As far as anti-body armor, it is a part of every useful combat shooting course. Shoot for the neck and the knees if nothing else and slop a round into his face or groin. As far as "high powered" rifle goes, any redneck from my home town could have done these two in with a 30-30. Those two guys were standing in the open for most of the time,,,I saw the actual footage. Somebody had a shot almost always, having the nerve to take return fire or the ability to make the shot is another story. The SWAT guys got on task and confronted the second guy in a stand up gunfight, they moved agressively, used cover fire and movement, exploited the flanks and overwhelmed him. It was not pretty but it worked fine. Traffic is something they addressed as soon as they could, hence the chopper training. I stand by my comments, according to the movie the cops sucked, it was anti-gun crap. If I was a LAPD cop I would not be happy to be portrayed as a crying anti-gun punk with no job skills, no first aid training and no ability with a firearm.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 7:58:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By lonegunman: What a shitty movie, at the end the happily announce that 1500 rounds were fired in the event, if that included bad guys those guys fvcking SUCK. That means the cops dribbled out a whopping 4 rounds each maybe,,,,,,,,, If it was the total for the LEO's then that still means one mag per cop if they were lucky. Then they have the typical anti-gun rant in a gun store that offers to help them. If a single one of those greazy headed posers could shoot that would have never happened. Our HEROS, never coordinated a single attack or returned fire in a coordinated manner. They hid during lulls in firing, they appear to have no first aid kits and all they could do was yell in the radios about body armor and AK47's, no useful information was relayed according to the show,,, just babbling cowards and none of them had sense to go next door and ask for a 300 win mag and a box of shells, implying they are to stupid to use bolt rifles. I hope they were not as stupid and useless as the profess to be in that movie.
View Quote
Any [b]STRONG[/b] feelings on the movie? [img]http://www.click-smilie.de/sammlung/mittelgrosse/medium-smiley-124.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 8:07:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2003 8:08:38 PM EDT by kay9]
Originally Posted By lonegunman: Please feel free to forward it, I actually have quite a bit of talent when it comes to anything pistol, rifle or shotgun related and I have 20 years in the military to back my theory up. I can support my positions on the use of all of them. As far as tactics and training, I have had some experience in that area as well. The basics of cover, fire and movement are taught in most of the military. As far as anti-body armor, it is a part of every useful combat shooting course. Shoot for the neck and the knees if nothing else and slop a round into his face or groin. As far as "high powered" rifle goes, any redneck from my home town could have done these two in with a 30-30. Those two guys were standing in the open for most of the time,,,I saw the actual footage. Somebody had a shot almost always, having the nerve to take return fire or the ability to make the shot is another story. The SWAT guys got on task and confronted the second guy in a stand up gunfight, they moved agressively, used cover fire and movement, exploited the flanks and overwhelmed him. It was not pretty but it worked fine. Traffic is something they addressed as soon as they could, hence the chopper training. I stand by my comments, according to the movie the cops sucked, it was anti-gun crap. If I was a LAPD cop I would not be happy to be portrayed as a crying anti-gun punk with no job skills, no first aid training and no ability with a firearm.
View Quote
RIIIGHT!!!!!! I forgot, exactly how many shoot outs have you been in where the BG's have AK's and you have your trusty 92? RIIIGHT!!!!!!!! One thing learned (took forever to implement) was most LEO agencies now issue or allow AR's or better long rifles to be carried. There are still a few agencies who stupidly insist on only issuing these tools to Supervisors. Mine did that for a long time, till they were convinced that equipping supervisors means when the shit hits the fan, the equipment you need will be parked at the station. There is a significant increase in patrol level "tactical" training recently, as this incident and the school shootings changed the way administrators look at things.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 8:26:58 PM EDT
did I see Dale Dye in it?
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 8:30:17 PM EDT
Yes, Dale Dye was in some scenes with Ron Livingston at the L.A.P.D. Academy
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 8:43:22 PM EDT
Did anyone tape it? I would like to see the crap for myself. Let me know!
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 8:51:50 PM EDT
Did they mention that the city closed B&B guns after the owner handed over a bunch of AR15's?
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 9:27:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gopher: TomJefferson wrote [B]What really struck me bullshit and Hollywood aside is that the cops were indeed inept but so were the crooks. If these guys knew half as much about tactics as they did equipment that could have been alot worse.[/B] Playing what if here for a moment what if these two guys had been Platt and Matix(sp) from the Miami shootout? Where would our gun laws be today if these two really had use some tactics? This would have had the anti's howling even more than they already were.
View Quote
Now those 2 guys were seriously bad news. Between them and the members of The Order I don't think we've ever seen badder bad guys.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 10:33:00 PM EDT
I'd rather have a longgun but I would not piss myself if all I had was my issue M-9/92FS. With the 92FS you get 15 tries in every mag, you can hit a man sized target with no real difficulty at 100 yds (just aim) I have done it hundreds of times to demonstrate. Ask Elmer Keith about long range handgun if you think I lie. In the early 90's, at Fairchild AFB, a mentally deranged gunman went thru the base hospital, killing and wounding almost 30 people. He had a MAK-90 with a 75 rd drum and lots of ammo. He was engaged as he went thru the parking lot towards another building by a 21y/o SRA (E4) military law enforcement troop with a M-9/92FS at about 75 yds. The military cop fired 5 shots and scored THREE hits, one shoulder, arm and head killing the gunman. Having the neatest gun does not mean you automatically win. Having the most rounds does not mean you win. Having the ability to use the gun you have to its maximum effect means that you can win with whatever you are carrying. Crying momma because you did not get a shiny rifle while you are standing there with a perfectly good pistol and ammo does not help anything. Last year I shot almost 5000 rounds of pistol thru all sorts of guns including about 1000rds of 9mm thru M-9's. Rarely, a well used M-9 will break, even the worst looking ones ran fine. A tac lite, Cold Steel knife, ninja suit and all that poser crap, wont do a damn thing if you cannot hit the target.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 10:50:06 PM EDT
anyone notice that colt car-15s were banned in 1989, and would NOT have been present in a kali gun shop? why did the city close down B&B after the robbery? if they did it was temporary, cuz B&B finally went into bankruptcy about a year or 2 ago and closed both stores (north hollywood and huntington beach)
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 11:37:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Garand1911: anyone notice that colt car-15s were banned in 1989, and would NOT have been present in a kali gun shop? why did the city close down B&B after the robbery? if they did it was temporary, cuz B&B finally went into bankruptcy about a year or 2 ago and closed both stores (north hollywood and huntington beach)
View Quote
Could have been Sporter models the ones colt came up with to go around that ban in Ca since it was only banned by name. Also IRC B&B was closed for violating the waiting period that Ca has.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 11:50:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cyrax777:
Originally Posted By Garand1911: anyone notice that colt car-15s were banned in 1989, and would NOT have been present in a kali gun shop? why did the city close down B&B after the robbery? if they did it was temporary, cuz B&B finally went into bankruptcy about a year or 2 ago and closed both stores (north hollywood and huntington beach)
View Quote
Could have been Sporter models the ones colt came up with to go around that ban in Ca since it was only banned by name. Also IRC B&B was closed for violating the waiting period that Ca has.
View Quote
I've been to that store before and they also had plenty of Eagle Arms rifles.
Link Posted: 6/3/2003 1:39:06 AM EDT
lone gunman is correct- long range handgunning is not difficult, it's just that police do not train for it and the average shooter doesn't think to do it. elmer keith was known for shooting at ranges of up to 400 yards with a .44 magnum revolver. i can hit a soda can at a hundred yards with my glock or a .22 pistol. thats more than sufficient for "minute of scumbag" accuaracy, even accounting for a moving target (and those guys were moving pretty slowly). the bad guys were not particularly good marksmen (they scored not a single fatality, despite the massive amount of ammo they were shooting). considering that they were vastly outnumbered, theres ample reason to believe that had the LAPD been trained in long range pistolcraft, things would probably have ended much sooner.
Top Top