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Posted: 6/2/2003 10:43:23 AM EDT
OK, we've argued over the high end (80-90k), now let's try the lower end. Examples would include: '93 Trans Am for $5k (average) 0-60 6.3 sec 1/4 14.8 sec '93 Corvette for $10k (average) 0-60 5.6 sec 1/4 14.0 sec '87 Grand National $10k (average) 0-60 5 sec 1/4 13.9 sec Add to the list, just be prepared to back it up with performance numbers. And if I'm wrong about any of the above feel free to let me know.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 10:48:13 AM EDT
Those aren't really "lower end", I think we need a better definition of "lower end". I think we might also need a better definition of "fast". I think those cars are "quick", not "fast". Can anyone help us with semantics? Campy? Green_Furniture? [;D]
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 10:51:58 AM EDT
the one you build for youself, 8000 in the motor ought to get you some real HP, 1000 for the tranny to keep it together, and junkyard crap for the rest of the car [:D]
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 10:53:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2003 10:58:45 AM EDT by SHIVAN458]
'93 RX-7....preferably one that already had the motor replaced....and maybe a couple go fast goodies. 5.3 0-60 and 14.0 1/4 156mph top speed....as tested 9/93 in C&D.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 10:57:17 AM EDT
87-93 5.0 Mustang LX Coupe. You can get one in good shape for between 3500 and 8000. low 6's in 0-60 and low 14's in 1/4, (I think, but don't quote me). The coupe is the lightest of the Fox body stangs, it's easy to mod (3.73's and you're a stoplight killer), and the aftermarket is flooded with great speed parts. Superchargers, heads, intakes, exhausts, you name it. You can probably get one of those stangs into the 11's for under ten grand (including the price of the car) if you mod well.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 11:02:19 AM EDT
Early model 3000gt VR4, 1991-1994 you can find them for under 10K 94-98 Mustang GT or 94-96 Cobra should be under $10k 95+ Mitsu Eclipse turbo As mentioned above 93-95 RX7 if you can find one, but Ive seen them in that price range.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 11:02:50 AM EDT
Seems like in that bracket one should be able to find any number of 5-liter Mustangs, Camaros, Firebirds, as well as the occasional Corvette. The problem is that most of those will have urinary tract infections from having the piss run out of them too frequently. Those will be, generally, "quick" cars; i.e. low 0-60, 1/4 mile times. You should be able to find '87-'89 Mercedes 190E2.3-16 or '87-'89 BMW M3 for that kind of money. Those will be "fast" cars; i.e. for those that drive more than 1/4 mile at a time.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 11:07:33 AM EDT
Yea, I dont really see anything fast about a 14.8 1/4
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 11:11:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By thesacrifice: Yea, I dont really see anything fast about a 14.8 1/4
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If you drove a Kia you would think that was greased lightning..... [lol]
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 11:13:58 AM EDT
Alright, allow me to be a bit more clear. I don't care about how fast it does in the twisties. For that I'd buy a Miata and have a sensation of speed that rivals lots of the big guns. Also, before someone says "a crotch rocket" let's stick to 4 wheels ok? What I'm interested in is a stoplight racer. Something to stomp on the gas and go fast for short distances. There are not back roads and no twisties where I live, and if there were I'd to it on the Harley anyway. Something with balls out of the box, but a good aftermarket should the time, desire, and funds become available to mod it. Obviously the less expensive the better. I have actually found better times for the Trans Am, but thought some Corvette purists might complain if I showed the TA going just .1 sec slower.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 11:14:56 AM EDT
I would suggest the Turbo Dodges, of the late 80's and early 90s. The 2.2/2.5s can run forever heavily modified, and can stomp most of the vehicles mentioned with only a few mods. Best of all they are about as cheap as you can get any type of car. I am sure I will be rediculed for my selection, but when you see an 11sec. minivan, don't be too surprised. Other than that the GN is by far the best choice. Of course only an 86' of 87' will do. I would try to find a t-type that has some miles on it, but is in good condition. 11s is quite possible in the GNs with few, but fairly pricy mods.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 11:26:35 AM EDT
97 Camaro Z28 T-Top $8000 fast enough to get tickets!
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 11:34:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2003 11:35:25 AM EDT by DzlBenz]
Following your clarification, then I'd suggest either a Camaro/Firebird or Mustang. The suggestion of a 5.0 LX Mustang is a good one - light, fast, tons of go-fast goodies. Probably can't go wrong with the GM F-body, either, except you may need to stock up on acid-washed jeans, Motley Crue cassettes (because they never cut an 8-track) and other mullet wares.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 11:36:18 AM EDT
The stock tranny on a 93 RX-7 can handle 500hp to the wheels reliably. Being that you can get a higher mileage one, with the motor replaced under warranty and a better oil distribution method installed for about $9000K {though it may be rough looking} this baby will cook with a $1K wastegate/engine management/exhaust swap....not raw unadulterated HP like a Chevelle with a blown 454 and some slicks, but still would like it to beat the shit out of a few unsuspecting 'Stangs and F-Bodies.....[:D]
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 11:36:36 AM EDT
[b]Can anyone help us with semantics? Campy?[/b] sorry. quarter mile times and 0-60 specs bore me. just nitrous an '79 glh and call me with the figures. [b]What I'm interested in is a stoplight racer.[/b] pick up a second hand 5L mustunk. strip it. add a few speed goodies (summit racing accepts all major credit cards). for $5k or so you can be the king of the dairy queen.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 11:51:21 AM EDT
Obviously my predominate concern with the GN is the age. A 10 year old car is bad enough, but 16 is really starting to push it. I'd hate to drop $10k on a car and almost immediately HAVE TO rebuild everything. Of course, I think a new turbo with modern technology would almost be a given.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 11:58:34 AM EDT
I would suggest getting one of the afore mentioned things with an already blown engine/f'dup tranny and just rebuilding it all from the ground up. That way you can get it to do what you want it to do, and it will be as realiable as you can make it.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 12:04:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SHIVAN458: The stock tranny on a 93 RX-7 can handle 500hp to the wheels reliably.
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Wankeler Might want to edit out the word reliably. If your gonna use the HP, plan on a Tranny every 15months. They are robust trannys givin the application, but behind 500hp they WILL occasionally fail.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 12:07:56 PM EDT
65 - 70 mustang (any year coupe is cheap). They stopped making good cars in the late 70's..
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 12:14:15 PM EDT
That Grand National must have some modes to it because IIRC Moter Trend had it at 6.28 0-60 dead stock. Adjsut the fuel pressure and the boost and it could be made to go a lot quicker. BKVic
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 12:19:32 PM EDT
Dodge Shadow ES Dodge/Shelby Charger Chevy Caprice
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 12:24:59 PM EDT
Z [url]www.hybridz.org[/url]
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 12:26:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2003 12:30:13 PM EDT by SHIVAN458]
Originally Posted By Boomholzer:
Originally Posted By SHIVAN458: The stock tranny on a 93 RX-7 can handle 500hp to the wheels reliably.
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Wankeler Might want to edit out the word reliably. If your gonna use the HP, plan on a Tranny every 15months. They are robust trannys givin the application, but behind 500hp they WILL occasionally fail.
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The name escapes me for the moment, but the dude who races an RX-7 that set all the class drag records used the stock tranny up until he started getting crazy. He broke [b]one[/b] in several hundred passes with something like 20psi and 505hp to the wheels. His word was "reliable"....since he knew the failure was his mis-shift.[;)] I'll see if I can find his name in a moment----Ari Yallon.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 12:32:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2003 12:34:26 PM EDT by SHIVAN458]
Quick8 Class.... Stock tranny....rearend and clutch are both worked over....but that is a whole 'nother thing. [url=http://www.rx7.com/racing/content/teamcont/team_car.html]Ari Yallon's RX-7[/url] I just realized one day that I started to hate Mustangs and F-Bodies because they were everywhere. Don't know why I latched on to the RX-7, but it stuck. [whacko]
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 12:37:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SHIVAN458: I just realized one day that I started to hate Mustangs and F-Bodies because they were everywhere. Don't know why I latched on to the RX-7, but it stuck. [whacko]
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To be honest, I always hated F-bodies too, until I saw the WS6 Trans Am. If the insurance wouldn't kill me I'd be looking into one of those. Whatever I decide will likely be either a second or third vehicle anyway, in addition to the truck and Harley.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 12:43:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2003 12:57:32 PM EDT by Dragracer_Art]
Try to find something like this...[:D] [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=12998[/img] [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=13025[/img] Doesn't corner worth a crap, but went 0-160 in 8.46 seconds. [banana]
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 12:46:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2003 12:50:52 PM EDT by Boomholzer]
A X co-worker's '93 RX-7 runs low 10's with ~560HP at the rear-wheels. Does the stock tranny handle that much power? Yes.......Is he still using the original tranny? NO. Given the failure rates of tranneys for ANY race car, I'd say they (RX-7 trannys) are very robustly designed. Here is his car: Steve Kan [img]http://www.rx7.com/pics/dragathon/steve.jpg[/img] [url]http://www.rx7.com/events/102100.html[/url]
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 1:04:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BKVic: That Grand National must have some modes to it because IIRC Moter Trend had it at 6.28 0-60 dead stock. Adjsut the fuel pressure and the boost and it could be made to go a lot quicker. BKVic
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According to all that I have read the 6.28 figure is way high. As I recall, information gleaned from turbobucik.com, and gnttype.org would suggest that the 87' GN ran a 4.8 0-60 IIRC. I have seen a multitude of sources that quote a 13.8 1/4. I don't dispute the 6.28 0-60 if it is for a GN that is not an 86' or 87', because as we all know those are the intercooled models. The 87' was actually faster than the corvette of the same year. Talk about bang for the buck.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 1:08:55 PM EDT
I always thought of racing as a balancing act: Making things strong enough to handle the power, while at the same time making them light enough to make them fast. You can make a tranny (or engine) that lasts for thousands of races but it probably wont be light. Or you can make a light tranny that lasts for one race then needs to be replaced. It all depends on what you expect from it.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 5:58:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Silence: It all depends on what you expect from it.
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I want something I can drive to work every day if I want, and know that I can get to the next stoplight faster than the guy next to me in the $80k car. Call that white trash and "dairy queen" and mullet wearing if you want, but don't let my wallet chain smack you in the head and knock off your gucci glasses when I'm blowing past you ok?
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 6:01:56 PM EDT
Corvettes hold their value MUCH better than most other "sports cars". Parts are easy to get and there are gobs of after-market Corvette parts available.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 6:38:25 PM EDT
can always get the excop crown vic, most people are scared to race you and mine have worked for me even after I got out and kicked them.
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