Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 6/1/2003 6:55:52 PM EDT
So, I'm thinking about getting a motorcycle. I'd like a Yamaha V Star 650 Classic. [url=http://www.yamaha-motor.com/products/unitinfo.asp?lid=2&lc=mcy&cid=4&mid=21]Here's the link[/url] I've seen a few that were in excellent condition and only a few years old for about $3500 [img]www.yamaha-motor.com/products/mcy/500/03vscl_blk_3.jpg[/img] [img]www.yamaha-motor.com/products/mcy/500/03vscl_blk_2.jpg[/img] So, what do you guys think? Should I get this model, or another, or not a motorcycle, or what?
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 7:10:59 PM EDT
aren't you that alcoholic guy [;)]. Drunks shouldn't ride.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 7:14:44 PM EDT
*Blinks* Um... I deny all knowledge.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 7:19:30 PM EDT
Ever ride a bike before? Man it is fun. I kind of hate it because when you get on a motorcycle, it's like becoming invisible. It is TERRIFYING how car drivers seem to see through, act like you aren't there.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 7:23:55 PM EDT
YES The V-stars are sweet bikes...get one!
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 7:35:46 PM EDT
If you change your mind on the model and want to look at another style, let me know. I have a Kawasaki ZR7S in red that I will sell ya so I can upgrade... [:D] Barely used. VERY LOW MILES.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 7:38:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 9:11:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Energizer: If you change your mind on the model and want to look at another style, let me know. I have a Kawasaki ZR7S in red that I will sell ya so I can upgrade... [:D] Barely used. VERY LOW MILES.
View Quote
Gotta pic? Aimless, I don't like sport bikes. Nothing against 'em, but I like cruisers better. Looks and handling.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 9:54:25 PM EDT
I think motorcycles are more dangerous than guns. Really! I know two people who almost go killed riding a bike. Both of my friends got hit by women, one a 90year old, and another a 30-something. The guy hit by the 90year old is maimed for life, and must walk with the aid of a caine. The 30-something woman hit my friend and knocked something like 20 feet into the air, he landed on his chest. Today he still has little piece of asphalt and sand coming out of his skin on his chest.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 9:54:41 PM EDT
This will be great for your wife's friend. She can just reach around and squeeze while you try to keep it on the road. Oh, don't forget the brain bucket. And watch out for your wife coming the other way........
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 9:58:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By prk: This will be great for your wife's friend. She can just reach around and squeeze while you try to keep it on the road.
View Quote
[ROFL2]
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 10:02:35 PM EDT
Wrong guy! Notice the spelling difference in our monikers?
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 10:09:33 PM EDT
Oh boy, that's gonna cause some confusion... Heck why not pick up a honda Valkyrie.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 11:45:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Valkyrie: Wrong guy! Notice the spelling difference in our monikers?
View Quote
Oh, yeah. Way to let the air out of my balloon! And here I thought i was being so damn funny!
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 2:40:50 AM EDT
Read my sig. line.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 3:51:49 AM EDT
Road bikes are cool, until someone pulls out in front of you (which is just a matter of time). It happened to me way back in 1987 on my 85 Honda V-65 Magna. I hit ride behind her front tire, flew over the hood of her van, and landed on the other side on my back. Was able to walk away with just a bunch of bruises. Last time I got on a road bike, too. No more for me, I'll take my chances with the oak trees out in the woods on my little KDX200. vmax84
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 4:19:31 AM EDT
I love my bike. It is a Suzuki Intruder 1500. When I stop at a light, people roll down their windows and holler at me, "That sure is a nice bike!". Be careful and drive like everyone is trying to run over you. [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=11985[/img]
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 4:28:21 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 4:32:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Aimless:
Originally Posted By Old_Painless: I love my bike. It is a Suzuki Intruder 1500. When I stop at a light, people roll down their windows and holler at me, "That sure is a nice bike!". Be careful and drive like everyone is trying to run over you. [url]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=11985[/url]
View Quote
"That sure is a nice bike." [:)]
View Quote
Well, as I always tell them, "Thanks. I like it myself." [:)]
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 4:33:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Silence: Oh boy, that's gonna cause some confusion... Heck why not pick up a honda Valkyrie.
View Quote
That would make the most sense. [img]http://www.hondamotorcycles.com/assets/images/model/model_hero_shot/motorcycles/2004/large/Rune_large_01.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 5:05:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Aimless: You should take a Motorcycle Safety Foundation course to learn about counter steering (you push the handlebar the opposite direction you wish to turn the motorcycle).
View Quote
I rode a bike for 4 years when I was younger. I know how to ride, and in Ohio wa sable to keep my license even without ownership. When I moved here they made me take a written test. I wondered wtf this pull and push bs was. How damn difficult is it to know which way to turn the handlebars to go where you want to go? They sure made a wordphuck out of a simple task.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 5:06:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2003 5:08:19 AM EDT by fight4yourrights]
Originally Posted By CavVet: How damn difficult is it to know which way to turn the handlebars to go where you want to go?
View Quote
Y Many don't realize that you apply pressure on the handlebars in the OPPOSITE direction as you want to go. This causes the bike to lean and go the direction you want.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 5:31:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By fight4yourrights: Many don't realize that you apply pressure on the handlebars in the OPPOSITE direction as you want to go. This causes the bike to lean and go the direction you want.
View Quote
Did they miss riding bicycles as kids?
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 5:43:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By CavVet: Did they miss riding bicycles as kids?
View Quote
Must be. You wouldn't believe how much trouble my 25 y/o brother inlaw had learning. We nicknamed him "tip over". I've been riding motorized cycles since 5 y/o (honda 100 @ 8 y/o). It's so ingrained in me it was a little hard understanding why he was having so much trouble. He could have benefitted from the course.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 5:55:11 AM EDT
I second Aimless' recommendation of attending a Motorcycle Safety Foundation course. Don't expect your car driving experience to get you by on a bike. It's a totally different animal, and they are very unforgiving toward riders who are inattentive or have sloppy technique. For example, as fight4yourrights mentioned, a motorcycle is steered by "countersteering." If you want to turn left you press [i]forward[/i] on the [b]left[/b] handgrip. If it sounds backwards it's because your life was ruined when you learned to drive in a car, but proper training can cure that. If you decide to go for the bike be aware of the increased risk level, your increased vulnerability, and the need to acquire a new set of motor skills & mental strategies to survive the experience. And one more thing- don't forget to have fun along the way.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 6:04:21 AM EDT
When I was a boy, Motorcycles were dangerous and sex was safe.......... You're on your own here, kiddo.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 7:02:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Valkyre:
Originally Posted By Energizer: If you change your mind on the model and want to look at another style, let me know. I have a Kawasaki ZR7S in red that I will sell ya so I can upgrade... [:D] Barely used. VERY LOW MILES.
View Quote
Gotta pic? Aimless, I don't like sport bikes. Nothing against 'em, but I like cruisers better. Looks and handling.
View Quote
Its a cross between a sport bike and a touring bike. I have a pic somehwere at home if you are still interested...
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 4:22:29 PM EDT
Looks like a cheap copy of a HOG if you want a Harley get a Harley. But by all means buy a bike if you like to ride. IF you are inexpieranced get a used cheap bike cause you will most likly lay it down a time or two. Start small and work your way up.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 4:31:19 PM EDT
... It certainly wasn't the cause of my divorce, but appropriating my first Harley Davidson did seal the deal. ... I put a beautiful Corbin "Gunfighter" (solo) seat on it once and my ex-wife's galfriend commented that "it looks like a single mans bike" in front of her. ... That was near the end of a 15 year marriage. Oh well
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 5:18:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Peetmoss: Looks like a cheap copy of a HOG if you want a Harley get a Harley. But by all means buy a bike if you like to ride. IF you are inexpieranced get a used cheap bike cause you will most likly lay it down a time or two. Start small and work your way up.
View Quote
Harley's are too overpriced for me. It's kinda like Colt, overpriced because it's an American icon. Kinda like the 1911, too... Energizer, thanks for the offer, but I don't like touring bikes, they're too big, and I don't like how sport bikes look. Sorry. If I do get a bike, I'm not gonna drive on interstates, if I can help it, to avoid tractor trailers, and only the highways that have fewer than three lanes. I'm gonna have to be extra careful at intersections, I'll just makes sure everyone sees me. Back roads and highway service roads. Helmet on at all times. And I'll just ride like I expect everyone to want to kill me. I'll drive offensively... [:D]
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 5:23:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2003 5:29:32 PM EDT by Valkyre]
Here she is in white [img]www.yamaha-motor.com/products/mcy/500/03vscl_wht_1.jpg[/img] Now I'm thinking, I'll buy a used V Star Classic, and upgrade her to a V Star Silverado, because I want saddlebags and a passenger backrest. I'd just buy a Silverado, but I haven't seen any used ones. Silverado: [img]www.yamaha-motor.com/products/mcy/500/03VSTR650SILV_silred_1.jpg[/img] [dang it... edited to fix the dreaded red X!] [and again...]
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 8:06:40 PM EDT
To make a long post short, give the Yamaha Royal Star Warrior a look.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 8:25:12 PM EDT
I have a Road Star Warrior. Cross between a Cruiser and Sports bike. I love it, plenty of power and it handles the twisties pretty good. [img]http://users.adelphia.net/~redhorse/Warrior/Warrior_L.jpg[/img] [img]http://users.adelphia.net/~redhorse/Quick_mods/Warrior_backlow_small.JPG[/img] 1670cc (102ci) air cooled fuel injected V-twin. Aluminum rims, frame, swingarm, R1 derived forks, shocks and brakes. Fat 200/50-ZR17 rear tire. [img]http://www.yamaha-motor.com/products/mcy/500/03warrior_cstmpnt_1.jpg[/img] [url]http://www.yamaha-motor.com/products/unitinfo.asp?lid=2&lc=mcy&cid=4&mid=60[/url]
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 9:23:48 PM EDT
I think it looks kinda weird. Sweet. But weird.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 9:33:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2003 9:34:48 PM EDT by MJFRacing]
[blue][b]Hell yeah get it![/b] My friend has a V-Star 650 and we road about 6000 miles last year together. It looks waaaay bigger than a 650 and handles the highway nicely. I am compensating for something (insert joke) and I personally have a Honda VTX1800 in illusion blue. ENJOY. . . and ride safely! Me! -->[url]http://www.cbr600f4.com/gallery/CBR600F4/afj?full=1[/url][/blue]
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 9:47:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 10:59:29 PM EDT
Here are some words of wisdom, not all are mine, erm I guess since I stole em they are mine now: Get a bike, or dont get a bike. Make your own decision. Do not let what anyone says here, or other places, decide for you (err other than significant others, you might want to talk to em, otherswise you may be looking for a new one of them too). IF you want one get one. If you are not sure, dont. A bike is a commentment, a pleasure, an addiction. Look around, get what you want, dont get something to impress anyone else the only person you have to impress is yourself. If that hog RUB snears at you ignore his fat lazy self. If that ricer Squid laughs at you, laugh last when you see him sliding down the pavement in his Tshirt and shorts. Take a MSF course regardless of if you have ridden before, even the refreshers are great learning experiences. Wear a helmet Wear some cowskin, or protective gear this includes: Jacket, pants, gloves, and boots specifically made to protect your ass in a fall. Jeans are not protective gear. Erm, if you dont wear protective gear that is your decision, but dont bitch, moan, whine, when you lose all the skin off your body from your ankle to your shoulder as you slide down the asphalt. Not all harley riders are RUBs but the majority are just posers. Not all sportriders are Squids or kids. But above all you have to think like a submarine(A sub has no friends on the surface): A Bike has no friends in a cage. Anything with a cage (and anyone in one) is trying to kill you, most of them dont even realize they are doing it either.
Link Posted: 6/3/2003 3:27:56 AM EDT
Good advice, Silence. Just a couple more words on selection. Find a bike that 1) Physically fits you (Seating isn't cramped, you don't have to stretch to reach controls, etc.), and 2) Is appropriate for your experience level. I've recently seen a couple guys who "went for the top" first thing. One had a 1700cc Road Star Warrior (high on the cool factor) and the other had an 1800cc VTX (a gorgeous brute [the BIKE!]). Both of these guys overbiked themselves and put themselves on bikes that they figured would impress their friends but scared themselves. [Looking back I think the grammar of that sentence could use some work, but I think the concept is there.]. I'd say the 650 V Star is a good place to start. After you get your experience & confidence levels up, IF you decide YOU want to move up from there you should get a good value from it for trade if you take care of it. Good luck & be safe out there.
Link Posted: 6/3/2003 9:38:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Originally Posted By CavVet: How damn difficult is it to know which way to turn the handlebars to go where you want to go?
View Quote
Y Many don't realize that you apply pressure on the handlebars in the OPPOSITE direction as you want to go. This causes the bike to lean and go the direction you want.
View Quote
No you don't. Push Right, Go Right. Push Left, Go Left. What you are talking about is counter steer. For example pushing right does indeed momentarily turn the wheel to the opposite (left) side causing the bike to lean right, in the direction of the desired turn. You do not apply pressure to the handlebar on the opposite side of the turn unless you want to find yourself in the ditch real quick.
Link Posted: 6/3/2003 9:53:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Hipower:
Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Originally Posted By CavVet: How damn difficult is it to know which way to turn the handlebars to go where you want to go?
View Quote
Y Many don't realize that you apply pressure on the handlebars in the OPPOSITE direction as you want to go. This causes the bike to lean and go the direction you want.
View Quote
No you don't. Push Right, Go Right. Push Left, Go Left. What you are talking about is counter steer. For example pushing right does indeed momentarily turn the wheel to the opposite (left) side causing the bike to lean right, in the direction of the desired turn. You do not apply pressure to the handlebar on the opposite side of the turn unless you want to find yourself in the ditch real quick.
View Quote
Hipower is absolutely correct. Its like riding a bicycle. Do not try to turn the wheel at speeds higher than about 10-15mph. Pushing right will force you to lean to the right. Pushing left will force you to lean to the left. The faster you are going, the harder you will want to press, so you can lean more.
Link Posted: 6/3/2003 10:23:45 AM EDT
Yes, by all means do! It's a lot of fun (though personally I have way more fun riding in the dirt than on the street). Lots of good advice given already. Here's the link to the MSF ([url]www.msf-usa.org[/url]). [:)]
Link Posted: 6/3/2003 11:34:56 PM EDT
Hey Silence, Thanks for the advice. I'm not letting anyone decide what bike I should get. I was just trying for some opinions. I want a Yamaha V Star 650, and I just wanted to see if it had any major problems that I should know about. I've already talked to my girlfriend about it, she just said, "A murdercycle?" kinda jokingly, but she think's it's fine. Her dad had a motorcycle, that's how he met her mother, and they're still together and doing fine. He has a big touring bike now, that he fixed up himself. He doesn't ride it anymore, because he let it fall on him (I haven't heard the whole story) and it broke some of his ribs. So her parents don't mind, I was talking to her mom just this evening at dinner while my girl was in the bathroom about motorcycles. The only person left to convince is my dad. He had a bike when he was a kid, but I'm not quite sure what he'll say about it...
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 12:29:19 AM EDT
Countersteering is one of the most misunderstood aspects of riding a motorbike. Gather around in a circle and be quiet kiddies, and I will explain. [granpa simpson] Wheels act like gyroscopes. When they're spinning, they will tend to stay stable unless disturbed and will resist being disturbed to a certain extent. The faster the wheel spins, the more gyroscopic momentum it has, so it will resist more. This includes leaning. The wheels will want to stay upright and spinning in the direction of least resistance, and as such will resist leaning. Leaning is an integral part of the whole turning process. Front tyres are narrower than rear tyres on a motorbike, so the lean angle and turn angle of the handlebars all contribute to making the front wheel track a tighter turning line than the rear, forcing the motorcycle to turn rather than travel in a straight line while leaning at an angle. Countersteering is a way of breaking the front wheel's gyroscopic resistance to be turned/leaned from it's stable upright position. It involves briefly turning the wheel away from the direction you want to actually turn, with a slight lean if neccesary, to break the gyroscopic resistance, then turning/leaning into the direction you want to go with much less effort. The countersteer action is actually quite slight. "Why not just turn it in the direction you want in the first place? This sounds too stupid". Countersteering is not something you need to use every time you turn, but it does help when you want to turn quickly, especially in an emergency when you are trying to swerve to avoid a collision. If you're just veering around something and only changing your line a small amount, there's no real need to countersteer, just a slight lean and turn of the bars will point you where you want to go. Since countersteering is used to break a gyroscopic effect, the slower your front wheel is spinning, the less effort it takes to break the gyroscopic effect, so it's not neccesary for slow speed turns. Sudden turns at higher speeds are where countersteering will have the greatest effect. Even though it sounds like it will take longer to turn quickly by countersteering, it's not a big movement, and it can become unconcious second nature, you can learn to countersteer without having to deliberately think about it (stop and think about all the things you do to control a car without deliberately thinking about it any more, and compare that to when you were learning to drive), and countersteering can be done very very quickly if you need to try to be somewhere else (a major swerve to avoid a collision) in a big hurry. Here endeth the lesson. [/granpa simpson]
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 3:43:41 AM EDT
GarethB: I had to go check your location when I saw the spelling of "tyres." I don't have the physics background to 'understand' countersteering. All I know is it works and it's how I steer my bike above about 10-12 mph. I have trouble getting people to even trust me on it, because they try to relate it to prior experience (driving a car). Totally different animal. You steer a car by pointing the front wheels in the direction you want to go and they drag the rest of the car behind them. A bike is turned by making it lean in the direction you want to go, so countersteering isn't "steering" per se, it is the method for inducing and controlling lean angle. So, how are things Down Under?
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 1:06:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GarethB: Countersteering is one of the most misunderstood aspects of riding a motorbike. Gather around in a circle and be quiet kiddies, and I will explain. [granpa simpson] Wheels act like gyroscopes. When they're spinning, they will tend to stay stable unless disturbed and will resist being disturbed to a certain extent. The faster the wheel spins, the more gyroscopic momentum it has, so it will resist more. This includes leaning. The wheels will want to stay upright and spinning in the direction of least resistance, and as such will resist leaning. Leaning is an integral part of the whole turning process. Front tyres are narrower than rear tyres on a motorbike, so the lean angle and turn angle of the handlebars all contribute to making the front wheel track a tighter turning line than the rear, forcing the motorcycle to turn rather than travel in a straight line while leaning at an angle. Countersteering is a way of breaking the front wheel's gyroscopic resistance to be turned/leaned from it's stable upright position. It involves briefly turning the wheel away from the direction you want to actually turn, with a slight lean if neccesary, to break the gyroscopic resistance, then turning/leaning into the direction you want to go with much less effort. The countersteer action is actually quite slight. "Why not just turn it in the direction you want in the first place? This sounds too stupid". Countersteering is not something you need to use every time you turn, but it does help when you want to turn quickly, especially in an emergency when you are trying to swerve to avoid a collision. If you're just veering around something and only changing your line a small amount, there's no real need to countersteer, just a slight lean and turn of the bars will point you where you want to go. Since countersteering is used to break a gyroscopic effect, the slower your front wheel is spinning, the less effort it takes to break the gyroscopic effect, so it's not neccesary for slow speed turns. Sudden turns at higher speeds are where countersteering will have the greatest effect. Even though it sounds like it will take longer to turn quickly by countersteering, it's not a big movement, and it can become unconcious second nature, you can learn to countersteer without having to deliberately think about it (stop and think about all the things you do to control a car without deliberately thinking about it any more, and compare that to when you were learning to drive), and countersteering can be done very very quickly if you need to try to be somewhere else (a major swerve to avoid a collision) in a big hurry. Here endeth the lesson. [/granpa simpson]
View Quote
Thanks for the physics lesson Dr.. Let me see if I can boil it down some. If over parking lot speed: Push Right, Go Right. Push Left, Go Left.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 11:25:16 PM EDT
Yeah, you've lost me on the counter-steer arguement... To turn left at speed, you do not just pull the left handlebar towards you, but instead, you push the left handlebar away slightly, then pull the left handlebar back towards you. Is that right? (No... it's left...)
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 2:56:11 AM EDT
No. To turn left you press forward on the left handgrip and maintain pressure through the turn. The more you press, the farther the bike leans. It sounds wierd because your prior experience is in a car. At speeds above 10-12 mph you don't steer a motorcycle by pointing the front tire in the direction you want to go. You turn the bike by making it lean in the direction you want to go. Countersteering is how you make the bike lean and control the lean angle. It takes a bit of practice for it to become a natural part of your riding. Be gentle as you learn this technique.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 3:03:59 AM EDT
BTW, one of the biggest myths I've run into in the biking world is "Don't touch the front brake! If you use the front brake you'll crash!" Again, this is a MYTH! The fact is that when you need to stop the front brake is your best friend in the whole world. The problems come from people who don't understand how to use it. The basic rule is don't be sudden with applying the front brake- DON'T GRAB IT! As you apply the brakes you can feel a weight shift forward. Your bike is talking to you. As the front forks compress it's saying, "I have more weight on the front tire, which is giving the front tire more traction, so you can squeeze more on the front brake." The key is in a firm, progressive squeeze, coordinated with the weight transfer (cued by the fork compression) as you slow. With practice you can be "quick", but don't be "sudden." Where folks get in trouble is applying too much brake pressure before that weight transfer takes place, causing braking to exceed available traction. Of course you would also be using your rear brake, too. Get into the habit of using both brakes together. A brake that you're not using isn't helping you stop. Be safe out there.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 3:49:43 AM EDT
Countersteering in simple terms: To make a fast turn to the right, make a slight turn to the left first to break the gyroscope effect of the front wheel, then turn and lean right. To make a fast turn left, make a slight turn to the right first, then turn and lean left. What you're trying to do is make the bike a little unstable so that it becomes easier to make it change direction quickly. Aimless has already mentioned MSF as a source for rider training. Completing a good course is probably the best thing you can do if you decide to ride. Bikes have no safety cell, no roll bars, no airbags, no seatbelts. If things go bad, you will end up sliding along the ground. The more skills you have, the less likely that will happen to you (but you can always count on someone else's idiocy to ruin your day). A good course is the fastest way to acquire those skills rather than just doing a basic course then thinking you'll pick up the rest of the techniques by yourself. Even here in Australia I've heard good things about the MSF. Don't think one course will be enough though. A followup course as a refresher and to give a professional instructor a chance to point out any bad habits you've developed will do wonders for improving your riding skills. I won't harp on about protective clothing, but I'll make this point. I don't drive, I don't own a car. I ride, rain hail or sunshine, including to/from work every day. I never ride without wearing at the absolute minimum, boots that will protect my ankles, jeans, a tear resistant jacket with reinforcement for the shoulders and elbows, gloves and a helmet. If you want to spend a couple of months in a hospital getting skin grafts and a metal plate in your skull because you were riding in shorts, tshirt and no helmet, that's your choice.
Top Top