Sigged!

I've always believed social security will be the downfall of the current longest sustained government in the world(the US.)

Within the next two or three decades the average age of the population could likely pass the social security benefits age.  We are headed to a point where even a 100% tax on everyone employed will not be able to balance the social security pay outs.  The majority of the population will be over or nearing the age of benefits and will always vote to continue social security.  Those being hit by higher and higher taxes as we approach that point will not have the numbers and be unable to elect politicians willing to fix the problem.

The system will fail and the U.S. will go bankrupt long before we even reach that point.

The near future will be interesting.  I believe there will be major problems, and who knows what type of government will end up in power, but I don't foresee mass revolutionary uprisings, nuclear war, or any other extreme situation.

The promise to pay SS is the same as the promise to pay interest on T-Bonds or T-Bills.  Backed by the full faith and credit of the United States of America.  There was never a separate "lock box" for any government program that I can remember.  The main difference is that there is no set in stone rate that must be paid like there is with bonds or bill.  

The outcome of all this will be interesting to say the least.  It's unfathomable that gov. spending will not decrease because of this and that gov. pensions will not also be adjusted downwards.  We are looking deflation in the eye here.

The only bright spot is that the US going bankrupt does not bode well for the rest of the world nor for banks, no matter how large.

First off, despite the many assertations to the contrary, the 'boomers are not the cause of the problem we now face. Secondly, each generation must deal with the shortcomings of the previous generations. Wars, environmental issues, our financial fiascos, and so on have been looked at, studied and attempted to be improved upon. Each step forward opens up a new set of concerns.
For it’s time, the S.S. system was viewed as a huge step forward in helping the average working man and women achieve some financial stability as they aged.
For a while it seemed to be working. While we "boomers” were paying in huge sums of money, INCLUDING a raise in S.S. taxes to take care of the bubble when we hit the system, everyone feasted on the money placed into the pool. This proved to be foolhardy and in my opinion the downfall of the set-up.  Lot's of folks, who did not place enough into the system when it was enacted, lined up at the trough to take that money that was paid in. By and large, this money did not benefit the working class 'boomers.
And now that we working  'boomers are due to hit the system ourselves everyone is going "Golly gee whiz this is going to hurt, how could they be so greedy?"

Care to guess what my share paid in would be worth at retirement? It’s probably not much different than most others my age.
I did the calculations to see what it would be like if my money could have grown tax free in a 401k. (Like what you have available to you today. But unlike you, I did not have this option for much of my working career.) Even at the average rate of inflation, which is 4% if you don't know, I would see around $250k for my own money at retirement. And that’s only if I were to stop working today. I still have a dozen years to go.
In addition my employers matched that amount that on my behalf.
For people just starting out, the predictions are that if you just do a matching funds contribution to your 401k, usually around 5% you will have much more spending power at retirement than we 'boomers could ever hope to accumulate. FACT: Even if I max’ed out my contributions for the last half of my working career I cannot catch up with your potential.
Since I most likely will have to keep working until my retirement date it isn't difficult to predict that over $1m combined will have been placed into the system by my efforts.
Unfortunately, when I was given the choice to continue under the old retirement plan or to switch into the cash balance (401k) plan “they” were allowed to swindle us and make it so that we would not have equivalent money at retirement.
Because of this, I don’t now have, nor will I ever have the freedom available to the new generation of workers to be able to walk away from my workplace without jeopardizing my retirement. However, thanks to us ‘boomer’s, you new people have a more even chance of punishing bad employers. Admittedly the 401k’s are not yet perfect, but they have the potential of freeing you all from bad employers and government misuse because it is yours to carry with you. It doesn’t come without pitfalls, and you will have to be vigilant because everyone will want a piece of it. But it is better than what we had, and we will not even get to benefit from it as fully as you do.  But it exists because we did see the flaw in the system, and we did force the government to allow us a chance to take care of ourselves to a greater extend than done in the past.
Now for some facts, using the S.S. own projected figures for what I will get in return for what was paid in for my work I will have to live in excess of 46 years just to break even. The government predicts that I will live for 12 years in my retirement. I won’t be getting back anything that I haven’t earned, and I owe no apology to anyone for what I get. Since I started working very early on, I will have paid into it for 50 years by the time I am eligible to get my full pension.

Despite your belief in our ineptitude, we have taken care of our responsibilities to our forbearer’s, and we have tried to take care of ourselves.
 Our failure is that we just have not been able to overcome the greed, and the outright theft and plunder of what we have worked for. That is something that we working people are going to be required to combat together, ‘boomers and slackers alike. Like it or not, you slackers are going to be required to do more than cry about the way that things are, and add to the changes to the process to the best of your ability, just as we have tried to do. Keep in mind that there are very few people willing to see the truth, and willing to make sacrifices to effect real change. Your generation will have as many drags onto the system, if not more, than ours had.
At the very least you need to get on the bandwagon, and actually be part of the process to cause effective change.  When you get older you will realize that as quickly as you fix a problem the idiots in society will find ways to corrupt was good has been done for their own benefit. Life is a process of continuously fixing the holes in what has been put together before you, along with a few additions and twists of your own.
Unfortunately it doesn’t get much better than that, and as you may gather, this isn’t easy anyway. There are too many Americans that believe that there is a free lunch, and that they are owed everything whether they put any effort into it or not.
Unfortunately they are enabled by a plethora of parasites (IE: Liberal politicians) that want to use your efforts, and your money to satisfy the various aspects of their greed.
You can continue to wail about the unfairness of it all, or you can come to terms with the fact that this is all that we have to work with, and actually try to repair the process. But the plain irreversible truth of the matter is that something will have to be done. You can deal with it rationally, you can eventually be dragged into it kicking and screaming, or you can opt out and move to wherever you feel that you will get a better deal. But if you stay here it is inevitable that you will deal with the situation one way or another.

I believe you've been deceived and fell for it. We had our first son delivered on Saturday at 4:19. Yes my Avatar is his first sonogram picture! :)

I'm sorry, but we just left the hospital on 6/1/03 and no application for SSN via Form SS-5 was signed. No request for SSN was made. I believe you should've called your lawyer if you didn't want your kids to be numbered. But don't worry. Applications for revocation and recission of Social Security Numbers can be submitted.

However, you have to be prepared for the consequence of not having an SSN, such as no public schooling ( we will home school ), no government employment, no credit cards, bank accounts, or loans, and obviously no SSN benefits. Also, you'll have to find a business that knows the law doesn't require an SSN from a worker, or start your own business without an SSN or EIN.

Actually, I'm mistaken. If you're a foreigner you will need to be numbered for income tax purposes.

But if you're a Citizen of the United States, you have no obligation to obtain a number.

Having an SSN is not like breathing either. That analogy is incorrect.

Call the Save-A-Patriot Fellowship for more information. I'm about to revoke my application for one, along with my wife's.

OOOh, I feel absolutely railed upon.[wow][nana][rolleyes][sleep]

Well what did you WANT me to do? Call Baby Boomers all sorts of names?

I know, you big fat gooberheads who are responsible for all of the moral decay in our society. How's that?

Gee...All that I can say is "Wow!"

I have paid into the system for years...It is the Law, and there was / is no way that I can get out of paying. And YES, I want back what I have paid in when I am due it.

This is NOT Reparations. This is a system that all Americans paid into, again, by Law.

I chalk all of this up to the Post Baby Boomer generation who probably feels that everything should be handed to them, without them having to work for anything.

Each generation takes what is given it and adds to our nation
To its greatness or to its detriment...
It will be up to this generation to preserve our liberty ..give it away...or take it from us...

The logic of national healthcare does not jibe with the SS issue.  How can you want and believe national healthcare is a benefit when increased longevity will cause astronomical benefits increases.  

As odd as it may seem it is much easier to believe socialized medicine will eventually be used to "time you out" ala "Logan's Run"

I think this is what the thread was really about in the first place. [;)]

Now I feel remorse.  Thank you.
Keep your nose to the grindstone, young'n.

1.  Can we all say, "Means testing for Social Security?"  I knew we could!  Get used to saying it because those of us in the Boomer Generation are going to have to [i]qualify[/i] for the [i]amount[/i] of Social Security we get.  Everyone who paid in will get something.  That's the "promises made, promises kept" political mantra that keeps everyone from hitting the panic button.  But for many of us with 401K distributions and other investments, our Social Security money will be nothing more than a feeble honorarium for living as long as we do.

2.  I eagerly anticipate the day the Social Security system starts to collapse because it will inspire the 18 - 35 year old segment of the population to start voting in the same numbers that their parents and grandparents vote.  Talk about a political revolution when that happens!  Oh baby...  My kids are going to look at how much they are being dunned for FICA and say, "Enough of this shit!"

3.  The coming collapse of Social Security will do more to tear families apart than anything this country has ever seen.  Young people are going to finally quit participating in the greatest scheme ever devised to transfer wealth from one generation to another.  What's really going to make it bad is all the first generation Americans and minorities who are busting their asses for low wages so retired white people like me are kept in greens fees.  Until someone is willing to sacrifice themselves on the altar of political courage, we are looking at some rough times ahead.

What it really boils down to is that most 'boomers will have paid into the system for their entire lives while mostly understanding that it's a rip off, but not having many good choices to do otherwisewise. We fought for, but will not completely benefit from 401k’s, which will allow many of you young’ins to at least benefit from your own labor, and not see the bulk of it sucked up by people who did not pay their share. And now we also have to listen to a lot of crap from people who do not know enough about how things were,to realize that they at least have a better shot at reaping the benefits of their labor.
As it’s been mentioned, I do expect that those of us who have tried to save will be punished for our efforts by means testing.
All that any of us can do is be vigilant and fight to improve on what has been done before. Social Security most likely was a good idea for its day. The problem is that it was allowed to stand too long without meaningful and thoughtful change.
We American’s are great in a crises, we just don’t do well in anticipating future needs,nor can we tear ourselves away from the Sports channel to do any deep thinking and taking necessary action about “boring” issues before they become a problem.
In some ways it is our own fault, there are not enough of us that think things through to overcome the mass of stupidity brought about by the freeloaders and the unthinking “bambi speaks” crowd. Keep pushing and asking questions, change will occur because it has to, it just won’t happen fast enough and correctly enough for those that fully understand the situation. Unfortunately, that’s the way it always will be in a Democracy that has a majority of sheeple in it.

Now HERE'S a guy who GETS IT!

rain, I also understand your position regarding 401K programs and I agree. However, if we start planning for some of this mess NOW as opposed to another 10 years from now, we might be able to cushion the impact somehow.

While that is sometimes true, a LOT of companies just trot out that excuse while they are busy gouging customers up the ass.

Just and interesting little tidbit - last fall I spoke with some executives from a high tech company that makes state-of-the-art life-saving medical equipment.

They told me that they could [b]easily[/b] cut their prices by 75% and still be "very profitable" - that includes paying for past and projected R&D costs, by the way.

The really interesting thing was that they do not hold unique patents nor have a monopoly, but "compete" with two other manufacturers.  The only explanation I can come up with to account for the non-competetive and inflated pricing in their particular market is illegal collusion to keep prices high and screw customers.  

Life-saving equipment!  Nice. [rolleyes]

I hear you, that makes me sick.  They think we are all fools!  Liberal idoits

I have 2 "Gen X" sons, and have listened to all this crap before. They are lazy, they abhor physical labor, and actually think that sitting in front of a computer on their asses all day somehow makes America productive. I have heard all the smug jabs, and stubborn insistence that they know everything, and we know nothing. Unlike most normal adolescents though, they are 30ish and still haven't outgrown it. Many of your Klintonite supporters are X'ers, as their main culture was MTV.

We, as Boomers, carry on our backs the "Greatest Generation", our parents.
They paid in a lot less to Social Security than they are taking out, simply because wages were much lower back then, and benefits are much higher now.
They at least had the foresight to have had larger families, namely Us, the Boomers. They were not many generations away from the farm mentality that knew that every generation cares for it's elderly parents someday, be it with farm labor, or payroll deductions.
We are the single largest generation ever born on the planet. We are carrying them, and their medical costs, which are outrageous.

Now it seems, we Boomers, having had access to reliable birth control, and it being "uncool" for many years to have large families, or even any kids at all, have produced only a few rather spoiled children, the Gen X puppies. And, as has been their tactic the whole while, our kids do very little that is responsible or caring towards us. "But you had all that sex, and you smoked pot! We hate you! We are SO much cooler and more responsible than you! Change your own Depends!", ad nauseum. The X kids are a monster we created. They are the single most self centered generation of Americans that ever lived.

As usual, we will be stuck paying for the old ones, and tending to them, while our own kids try to weasel out of the deal of caring for us. We will get screwed by both sides. The Boomers may have been hedonists, but we WERE raised by the Depression/WW2 folks, and have a great sense of responsibility trained in towards our elders. Unfortunately, our kids have no such decency.

The largest transfer of wealth in history is going on right now, as the Depression/WW2 folks die off, and we Boomers inherit what they have left. Well, here's a newsflash... if we have to sell off all of our guns and property to survive as old people, guess what?
No inheritance for you, Skippy.

There should have been plenty of money in SS, but our greedy politicians have squandered it, giving it to people who never paid in at all! Giving it to illegal aliens, fercrissakes!
It is certainly not the Boomers' fault if the well has run dry.
Start hanging politicians if you want the blame to be assigned correctly!

BenDover,

I've read a lot of your posts over the past year and most of them were well thought out, interesting or funny.

For some reason when I think of you I think of that saying; "You can pick your friends and you can pick your nose, but you can't pick your friends nose."

In other words you can't have my SS retirement benefits.  [8D]

[:D]

Thanks Rambosky. Boogers is all we're going to have in 30.

I don't want any unfair share of anyone's retirement. I just want things to be as fair and relatively equitable as they can possibly be. On the present course, whether Boomers want to accetp the reality or not, their children's future really is several shades dimmer than theirs was.

Well then, I'd have to chalk your self-admitted failure at parenting to your apparent attitudes that age equals wisdom and age is sole qualification for respect (or lack of it).

Sure, I am a software engineer. I've been programming since I was eight. I've been working full-time since I was 15, earning $12 an hour at that age in the mid 80's while contract programming on the side and maintaining grades in school. The creten who believes that working with your hands is better than working with your mind generally doesn't have the mind of relative worth to be used as a professional tool. They are both forms of work, however people who work with their minds generally have the option to do both.

For about a five year stretch through the latter 90s, I worked 80-100 hour weeks as a norm.

I'm glad my parents raised me with a work ethic and respect the kind of work that I do. The last thing that my father and mother would ever label me as being is lazy. I think they succeeded as parents.



Our children are mirrors to our own worst traits.



This is illogical. Klinton is a Boomer. The entirety of the liberal movement has direct roots in the Boomer' big free love party in the 60's. You mean you don't remember? Or did all the LSD and pot kill those brain cells? Madeline Murray O'Hair? Gloria Steinham? Jesse Jackson?

The major achievements of '60s liberals are virtually sacrosanct today. Consider three major legacies: federally enforced civil rights (including protection for women under Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act); Medicare; and a liberal internationalist foreign policy based on such alliances as the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

Today, liberals and conservatives debate affirmative action and the merits and extent of racial gerrymandering--but not the basic federal civil-rights protections established by the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965. Medicare financing is a subject of contention, but its legitimacy is accepted by both Republicans and Democrats. Just as no mainstream conservative proposes to abolish federal civil-rights protections, none is prepared to repeal the federal commitment to providing health care to the nation's elderly; the debate, rather, is over whether to extend that commitment by having Medicare pay for prescription drugs. No mainstream liberal or conservative proposes dissolving NATO.



Yep. Thanks for agreeing with the point that I have been making throughout this thread.



You cannot be serious. You believe the Boomer generation happened because the "Greatest Generation" planned it? I guess you really don't know your history that well, so let me encapsulate it for you in a few words. WWII pushed women into the workforce at a rate never before seen. The extra incomes combined with the shortage of raw goods allowed families to create savings never before seen. When the servicemen returned from the front, the great suburbanization happened as people moved from the cities into larger homes in the suburbs - thus creating the opportunity for larger families. History is a great thing when it is actively studied instead of recanted from memory.



And the Boomers pretty much sealed the fate of that philosophy because reality is such that this concept is no longer financially feasible.



And the Boomer's medical costs will be even more astronomical since there are that many more of you. To compound the problem, there will be less working population to support the cost.



Reality can be painful when it is seen with clarity. You had your party. You popped birth control to pursue your religion of free love. Birth control allowed the orgy to happen. If anything, it's the Boomer's penchant for excess that pushed the line and now you're getting a dose of moral backlash from your children who have clearly adopted a more conservative attitude.



Because you were so preoccupied with the party that you sat down on your responsibility as parents - yet expect, NO, DEMAND, the same respect as we give to our grandparents? pffft



The inheritance has already been squandered. Even though it was much cheaper in the early 80's, just how much did an 8-ball of blow cost? How about that credit card debt to finance the party?

We already know there won't be anything left. We've seen the bumper stickers that proudly proclaim, "We're spending our kid's inheritance", and taken the message to heart.



Most of which are Baby Boomers voted into office by Baby Boomers.



Ibid.



Well, it's already been stated in this thread that Boomers have the vote. You created it, you fix it before we have to.