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Posted: 5/29/2003 2:13:56 PM EDT
I was just watching Real TV. They had the tapes from a surveilance tape in a jewelry store in I think it was Monterrey Kalifornistan. Anyways, this guy and girl go into the jewelry store to "look for a wedding ring." While the jewler and the guy are bent over the counter looking at the ring, the guy jumps over the counter and tackles the jewler. His girlfriend pulls a pistol from her purse. The jewler managed to trip the alarm and escapes out the back door. The woman and her boyfriend start grabbing jewelry. Meanwhile, the jewler's neighbor shows up with his own pistol. The girl shoots at him and he shoots back, neither are hit. The girl runs for cover and drops her purse and gun. The neighbor orders the two against the counter. They comply. Then the man says, "Come on, I'm not going to hurt you" and walks towards the neighbor. Then the guy grabs the neighbor around the neck so he puts a cap in the theif's chest. BANG! Then the theif runs away. The woman is left behind. She starts to go back for her pistol but the neighbor tells her. Don't you move! I just shot your boyfriend and I'll shoot you too if you go any closer to that gun! So he holds her at bay until the cops show up. Afterwards, the neighbor is saying, "I would do it all over again if I had to. He's my neighbor, and neighbors have to help each other out!" What the hell is that shit! The guy is in Kalifornia, if your neighbor is in trouble you should call the police and let them handle it!! And what was that guy doing with a handgun?!?! Doesn't he know a child could find the gun and kill someone with it? What if he got into a traffic accident and shot the other driver! We can't allow this! Seriously, though it was nice to see privately-owned guns used to stop a jewelry heist. I guess not everyone in Commiefornia is crazy in the head. -Nick Viejo.
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 2:40:31 PM EDT
I think Kommiefornia law allows one to legally have a gun in your place of business. Of course this guy came from a neighboring business so they might try some shit on him.
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 2:49:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 2:50:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/29/2003 2:51:54 PM EDT by California_Kid]
Paul is correct. Concealed carry is legal here in a place of business or on your own land, and self-defense shooting is allowed. You can even carry at a campsite you are using provided that it doesn't violate park rules etc. Open carry is legal in most unincorporated areas but not in cities. Contrary to popular assumptions (which are understandable), self-defense is well protected here provided that you can show that you had good cause to be in fear for your life. Inside of your private home the burden of proof is on the state to show you did not have good cause. But unlike Texas you can't shoot someone for attempting to steal your stuff after dark.
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 3:05:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 3:06:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/29/2003 3:09:45 PM EDT by PaDanby]
There's a Watch Jeweler down in Hollywood that is 5 and 0 or better against robbers. They don't seem to learn. He buzzes them in one at a time. They wave a gun and he pops them before they get finished waving it. Much as the folks from outside California belly ache about the laws here, they are usually rather ill informed. Once you legally posses the weapon (yeah THAT ain't easy) your ability to use it in defense of life is about as unfettered as it gets. Can't use deadly force to protect property, but as long as you are in fear of your life or feel you need to protect another from a deadly threat it's generally good to go. We have the Richardson Law which cleared up the ambiguity about deadly force in your home, if the person is in your home you prima facie have the right to use deadly force. (I would not want to have to defend a possible civil suit in a questionable situation,) but the criminal sanctions aren't therein almost all cases. You can't instigate a situation and then claim self defense. But in in any bona fide self defense you are in good shape, unlike those wimp states where you have a duty to back down as far as possible. Dang some of you folks are quick on the responses
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 4:35:05 PM EDT
California_Kid says: self-defense is well protected here provided that you can show that you had good cause to be in fear for your life. Inside of your private home the burden of proof is on the state to show you did not have good cause.
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Is there a site or link I could go research on this subject? I have a lawyer friend/acquaintance who does criminal defense and his take on using a firearm for self-defense in your home is; "don't do it." Granted, that's not what most of us here would agree with (me included) but there must be some precedence for his stance. And no, I have no idea how successful or unsuccessful he is with his cases [;)]
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 4:55:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By slipjoint:
California_Kid says: self-defense is well protected here provided that you can show that you had good cause to be in fear for your life. Inside of your private home the burden of proof is on the state to show you did not have good cause.
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Is there a site or link I could go research on this subject? I have a lawyer friend/acquaintance who does criminal defense and his take on using a firearm for self-defense in your home is; "don't do it."
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Unless it was "him" or his family with a knife to their throats. See how that works? What's good for him is not good for the "masses" You can bet the majority here would defend their families at any finanical cost laws and civil suits be damned.
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 5:21:16 PM EDT
Hey Nick You'd be suprised..I know many a jeweler in Kali that pack weapons. Those Gangsta smash and run guys will kill you in a heartbeat for one of those iced-out Rollees. Scary stuff sometimes. You also have to watch out for organized slopenoses that are connected with the fencers. I always pack. I have a close friend in the business that has survived three seperate shootings and is still dealing gems. Gemologist[x]BLOAT Buy Lots O Ammo Today
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 11:12:08 PM EDT
It is (or was since I escaped[:)]) my understanding that you had the castle doctrine, ie. you could shoot in your house, but the police had better hear you say you feared for your life. Some will arrest you anyway and let the DA decide what to do. YMMV.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 1:42:27 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 10:40:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Big_Bear: I read a story on another gun board posted a year or so ago by one of our fellow California gun owners who shot an armed robber attempting to rob his place of business. Apparently some of our forum members know him. It was a pretty detailed account (front sight... center of mass... squeeze) and reading it had me on the edge of my seat. Anybody remember that post or have a link to it?
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Gunstore robbery right? It was on CALGUNS and I saw it a few months ago. When I went back to read it shortly after I couldn't find it.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 11:19:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 11:23:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 12:56:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 10:37:17 PM EDT
Good read. Thanks for posting. TXL
Link Posted: 5/31/2003 12:12:47 AM EDT
Here are the California Penal code sections applicable to the discussion - Maybe the Lawyer needs to review them - 197. Homicide is also justifiable when committed by any person in any of the following cases: 1. When resisting any attempt to murder any person, or to commit a felony, or to do some great bodily injury upon any person; or, 2. When committed in defense of habitation, property, or person, against one who manifestly intends or endeavors, by violence or surprise, to commit a felony, or against one who manifestly intends and endeavors, in a violent, riotous or tumultuous manner, to enter the habitation of another for the purpose of offering violence to any person therein; or, 3. When committed in the lawful defense of such person, or of a wife or husband, parent, child, master, mistress, or servant of such person, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design to commit a felony or to do some great bodily injury, and imminent danger of such design being accomplished; but such person, or the person in whose behalf the defense was made, if he was the assailant or engaged in mutual combat, must really and in good faith have endeavored to decline any further struggle before the homicide was committed; or, 4. When necessarily committed in attempting, by lawful ways and means, to apprehend any person for any felony committed, or in lawfully suppressing any riot, or in lawfully keeping and preserving the peace. 198. A bare fear of the commission of any of the offenses mentioned in subdivisions 2 and 3 of Section 197, to prevent which homicide may be lawfully committed, is not sufficient to justify it. But the circumstances must be sufficient to excite the fears of a reasonable person, and the party killing must have acted under the influence of such fears alone. 198.5. Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or great bodily injury within his or her residence shall be presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily injury to self, family, or a member of the household when that force is used against another person, not a member of the family or household, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and forcibly entered the residence and the person using the force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred. As used in this section, great bodily injury means a significant or substantial physical injury. 199. The homicide appearing to be justifiable or excusable, the person indicted must, upon his trial, be fully acquitted and discharged.
Link Posted: 5/31/2003 12:20:56 AM EDT
Acording to the Guard classes that I took for this corrupt money grubbing state. Only the owner can carry on the premesis.. The neighbor may have problems, depending on the local LEs. The problem with defending yourself in the PRK as I've read the laws at least in the past couple of years, I didn't see it in the last post, is that it is NOT a for sure thing. It is an assumption that can be overturned in court. Don't get me wrong, come into my house and I've got 3 mags of .45 hollow points going center mass, but then again, I'll probably go to jail. If you shoot, better make sure they don't live to tell about it. Or sue ur a$$!!!
Link Posted: 5/31/2003 2:34:27 AM EDT
198.5 was written specifically so it can't be overturned in court. One of the few things Richardson got through. He pissed so many libs in his day it was a miracle that he got this through. More than the owner can carry, however, the ownwer may be covering his butt on letting others he doesn't trust not carry. Depends on the kind of store, jewelry and gun stores often everybody is carrying.
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