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Posted: 5/28/2003 12:00:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/28/2003 12:16:47 AM EDT by rlitt]
Is BIG Business and The US Government sacraficing its future by eating its own young? You be the judge, what say yea?: (1) Low paying or NO jobs for college graduates. (2) Exporting every conceivable entry level jobs to low wage countires. (3) Making it nearly impossible, except for the very wealthy, to send their kids to college. And then when they graduate: "here's a spatuala - ready to flip some burgers." (4) Offering easy credit in the name of "short term" profits, enslaving young people to debt and indentured servitude forever. (5) Tell me how a young person today can afford a car payment, a mortgage, and high risk insurance on $8/hour? (6) They see their parents in financial and emotional straits, getting laid off betwen 40-50 and wonder what The American Dream is all about. (7) They see uneducated basketball players skip college and sign with Nike for $90 Million right out of high school and wonder: "Where do I go to stand in THAT Line?" (8) They see a guy by the name of Tiger hit a little round ball on TV and make millions before he is 25 and say: "Where do I go to school to learn how to do that?" (9) Then when reality sinks in they go down to the local Army recruting office and told they are unfit to serve their country because their parents doped them with Ritalin half the lives. (10)The Middle Class retirement nightmare: So, you are somewhere between 25 and 60 and you wanted to retire early or just retire comfortably, knowing that social security alone certainly was not the answer. All the "experts" have done the math for you and said: "you will need close to a million dollars by the time you are ready to retire assuming the income you're making now and factoring in inflation. That means you'll need to max out your 401K and your IRA and/or your SEP contributions each year. We'll assume a constant rate of return of 10% on an annualized basis assuming you invest 100% in a growth portfolio. And voila - presto - there's your answer. Just sign here Mr. and Mrs. investor, make sure you make those "tax deferred contributions each year" and you'll be enjoying the good life down in Florida on the golf course before you know it - jusat sit back and enjoy the ride and Wall Street will take of the rest.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 12:02:22 AM EDT
You forgot #10: [b]Abortion[/b] Sgtar15
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 12:08:37 AM EDT
As if I wasn't depressed enough already... What if we were only doped for 1/4 of our lives? I had tourettes(sp?) and still take Luvox for OCD. Do you think that would DQ me? I was keeping the army as my backup plan...
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 12:11:38 AM EDT
I should have to agree with Jonathon Swift, that it is a modest proposal that we eat the children of the poor, that they not starve in this cruel world! If you read enough you may understand this post!
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 12:13:39 AM EDT
I remember hearing all of the neo-con talking heads in their arguments for NAFTA & GATT that the agreements would make everyone in the U.S. so rich that #1-6 would never happen.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 12:21:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack: I should have to agree with Jonathon Swift, that it is a modest proposal that we eat the children of the poor, that they not starve in this cruel world! If you read enough you may understand this post!
View Quote
By Jonathan Swift (1729) It is a melancholy object to those who walk through this great town or travel in the country, when they see the streets, the roads, and cabin doors, crowded with beggars of the female sex, followed by three, four, or six children, all in rags and importuning every passenger for an alms. These mothers, instead of being able to work for their honest livelihood, are forced to employ all their time in strolling to beg sustenance for their helpless infants: who as they grow up either turn thieves for want of work, or leave their dear native country to fight for the Pretender in Spain, or sell themselves to the Barbadoes. I think it is agreed by all parties that this prodigious number of children in the arms, or on the backs, or at the heels of their mothers, and frequently of their fathers, is in the present deplorable state of the kingdom a very great additional grievance; and, therefore, whoever could find out a fair, cheap, and easy method of making these children sound, useful members of the commonwealth, would deserve so well of the public as to have his statue set up for a preserver of the nation. But my intention is very far from being confined to provide only for the children of professed beggars; it is of a much greater extent, and shall take in the whole number of infants at a certain age who are born of parents in effect as little able to support them as those who demand our charity in the streets. As to my own part, having turned my thoughts for many years upon this important subject, and maturely weighed the several schemes of other projectors, I have always found them grossly mistaken in the computation. It is true, a child just dropped from its dam may be supported by her milk for a solar year, with little other nourishment; at most not above the value of 2s., which the mother may certainly get, or the value in scraps, by her lawful occupation of begging; and it is exactly at one year old that I propose to provide for them in such a manner as instead of being a charge upon their parents or the parish, or wanting food and raiment for the rest of their lives, they shall on the contrary contribute to the feeding, and partly to the clothing, of many thousands. This is satire at it's finest!
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 12:22:42 AM EDT
This is just the stuff to get you flammed good, if posted during the day![:D]
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 12:23:56 AM EDT
I should have added this. ”I have been assured by a very knowing American of my acquaintance in London, that a young healthy child well nursed is at a year old a most delicious, nourishing, and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled ...”
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 12:44:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/28/2003 12:47:46 AM EDT by DK-Prof]
Originally Posted By rlitt: Is BIG Business and The US Government sacraficing its future by eating its own young? You be the judge, what say yea?: (1) Low paying or NO jobs for college graduates.
View Quote
Temporary downturn - three years ago college grads were getting stock options and signing bonuses
(2) Exporting every conceivable entry level jobs to low wage countires.
View Quote
Sure some, but that also creates room for entrepreneurs to create new industries. I know tons of people that rode the computer consulatant and software engineer wave of the dot-com bubble and made tons of dough
(3) Making it nearly impossible, except for the very wealthy, to send their kids to college. And then when they graduate: "here's a spatuala - ready to flip some burgers."
View Quote
What you talkin' bout? Sure the private university I work at charges 30 grand a year for tution, but MANY state schools have absolutely bargain-rate in-state tuition rates.
(4) Offering easy credit in the name of "short term" profits, enslaving young people to debt and indentured servitude forever.
View Quote
Since when is a person's own stupidity "unfair". Stupid is stupid - has nothing to do with fairness.
(5) Tell me how a young person today can afford a car payment, a mortgage, and high risk insurance on $8/hour?
View Quote
Since when is a mortgage something a "young person" is entitled to. instead, that young person can go to a state college, and then get a real job. Plus college is a good place to ride out a recession.
(6) They see their parents in financial and emotional straits, getting laid off betwen 40-50 and wonder what The American Dream is all about.
View Quote
... and then they open their eyes to the new reality, and don't make the same mistakes and assumptions their parents made
(7) They see uneducated basketball players skip college and sign with Nike for $90 Million right out of high school and wonder: "Where do I go to stand in THAT Line?"
View Quote
So what? It is unfair that some guy won $200 million in the lottery and I got nothing? Some people are just lucky.
(8) They see a guy by the name of Tiger hit a little round ball on TV and make millions before he is 25 and say: "Where do I go to school to learn how to do that?"
View Quote
Since when is it wrong for a guy to take advantage of talent? Tiger didn't create this system - all the slack-jawel suckers who watch golf on TV did - don't blame the symptom, blame the problem
(9) Then when reality sinks in they go down to the local Army recruting office and told they are unfit to serve their country because their parents doped them with Ritalin half the lives.
View Quote
Seriously? Does that happen? if it does, so what? Maybe the grand litigious society will allow them to sue their parents. See there is a silver lining you're not seeing
(10)The Middle Class retirement nightmare: So, you are somewhere between 25 and 60 and you wanted to retire early or just retire comfortably, knowing that social security alone certainly was not the answer. All the "experts" have done the math for you and said: "you will need close to a million dollars by the time you are ready to retire assuming the income you're making now and factoring in inflation. That means you'll need to max out your 401K and your IRA and/or your SEP contributions each year. We'll assume a constant rate of return of 10% on an annualized basis assuming you invest 100% in a growth portfolio. And voila - presto - there's your answer. Just sign here Mr. and Mrs. investor, make sure you make those "tax deferred contributions each year" and you'll be enjoying the good life down in Florida on the golf course before you know it - jusat sit back and enjoy the ride and Wall Street will take of the rest.
View Quote
I don't see your point. Couldn't you jsut have said "life isn't fair" and we could all have nodded and agreed.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 12:47:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Originally Posted By rlitt: Is BIG Business and The US Government sacraficing its future by eating its own young? You be the judge, what say yea?: (1) Low paying or NO jobs for college graduates.
View Quote
Temporary downturn - three years ago college grads were getting stock options and signing bonuses
(2) Exporting every conceivable entry level jobs to low wage countires.
View Quote
Not true - just the ones that trained monkey can do, and many american workers don't want anyway
(3) Making it nearly impossible, except for the very wealthy, to send their kids to college. And then when they graduate: "here's a spatuala - ready to flip some burgers."
View Quote
What you talkin' bout? Sure the private university I work at charges 30 grand a year for tution, but MANY state schools have absolutely bargain-rate in-state tuition rates.
(4) Offering easy credit in the name of "short term" profits, enslaving young people to debt and indentured servitude forever.
View Quote
Since when is a person's own stupidity "unfair". Stupid is stupid - has nothing to do with fairness.
(5) Tell me how a young person today can afford a car payment, a mortgage, and high risk insurance on $8/hour?
View Quote
Since when is a mortgage something a "young person" is entitled to. instead, that young person can go to a state college, and then get a real job. Plus college is a good place to ride out a recession.
(6) They see their parents in financial and emotional straits, getting laid off betwen 40-50 and wonder what The American Dream is all about.
View Quote
... and then they open their eyes to the new reality, and don't make the same mistakes and assumptions their parents made
(7) They see uneducated basketball players skip college and sign with Nike for $90 Million right out of high school and wonder: "Where do I go to stand in THAT Line?"
View Quote
So what? It is unfair that some guy won $200 million in the lottery and I got nothing? Some people are just lucky.
(8) They see a guy by the name of Tiger hit a little round ball on TV and make millions before he is 25 and say: "Where do I go to school to learn how to do that?"
View Quote
Since when is it wrong for a guy to take advantage of talent? Tiger didn't create this system - all the slack-jawel suckers who watch golf on TV did - don't blame the symptom, blame the problem
(9) Then when reality sinks in they go down to the local Army recruting office and told they are unfit to serve their country because their parents doped them with Ritalin half the lives.
View Quote
Seriously? Does that happen? if it does, so what? Maybe the grand litigious society will allow them to sue their parents. See there is a silver lining you're not seeing
(10)The Middle Class retirement nightmare: So, you are somewhere between 25 and 60 and you wanted to retire early or just retire comfortably, knowing that social security alone certainly was not the answer. All the "experts" have done the math for you and said: "you will need close to a million dollars by the time you are ready to retire assuming the income you're making now and factoring in inflation. That means you'll need to max out your 401K and your IRA and/or your SEP contributions each year. We'll assume a constant rate of return of 10% on an annualized basis assuming you invest 100% in a growth portfolio. And voila - presto - there's your answer. Just sign here Mr. and Mrs. investor, make sure you make those "tax deferred contributions each year" and you'll be enjoying the good life down in Florida on the golf course before you know it - jusat sit back and enjoy the ride and Wall Street will take of the rest.
View Quote
I don't see your point. Couldn't you jsut have said "life isn't fair" and we could all have nodded and agreed.
View Quote
Life has never been fair.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 12:50:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ar10er: Life has never been fair.
View Quote
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. That way, when I get fired next year for not publishing enough, I'll blame it on the system not being fair, and not have to face the possibility that maybe I could have been working a little harder the last five years. [;)]
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 12:53:08 AM EDT
There is an irony to the doc's reply. In the 1950's a janitor in America could buy a home raise 3 kids, and save for their college education, own a car, and his wife would not need to work. Today, if you do not have plenty of college under your belt, or a very good bussiness plan and the means to implement it.........
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 1:13:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/28/2003 1:20:39 AM EDT by The_Macallan]
Originally Posted By rlitt: (1) Low paying or NO jobs for college graduates.
View Quote
For what kind of graduates? Communication majors? English, Biology, Psychology or PolSci majors? Those are a dime a dozen. The ENORMOUS flood of BS/BA degrees among the twenty-somethings right now can make those holding Sociology, General Business or Media Studies degrees pretty insignificant in the applicant pool. It's very competative now that nearly EVERYONE seems to be getting college degrees. Used to be college was for the best of the best in academics and a BS or BA degree really meant something. Not to say a BS or BA is nothing, but it will get you less than it would've 30-40 years ago simply because there's so many people with those degrees nowadays. Supply and demand.
(2) Exporting every conceivable entry level job to Asia.
View Quote
What do you consider "entry level"????
(3) Making it nearly impossible, except for the very wealthy, to send their kids to college. And then when they graduate: "here's a spatuala - ready to flip some burgers."
View Quote
There are a greater percentage of middle and low-income people getting college education now than there ever has before. Now, do you want to go to [b]any[/b] college or do you want to go to Stanford? And again, if you get a BA in Communication or Sociology - what's your marketable skill you have you after you walk off the stage at graduation? There are a LOT of people who think a college degree - ANY degree - should automatically get them a dozen offers for $45K/year positions in their first year after school. If you think that - you're sorely mistaken.
(4) Offering easy credit in the name of "short term" profits, enslaving young people to debt and indentured servitude forever.
View Quote
Well if these super-bright college students would actually pay attention in Econ 101 they'd learn the simple smothering truth about credit debt. But instead many of them are too busy planning their next trip to Maz or Daytona while still expecting an instant $40-50K/year job offer waiting for them the day after graduation so they can pay off their tuition loans they incurred paying for classes in which they didn't learn a damn thing about basic finance.
(5) Tell me how a young person today can afford a car payment, a mortgage, and high risk insurance on $8/hour?
View Quote
WHAT IN THE HELL is a person making $8/hr doing with a mortgage??? And whoever said you should have a huge car payment too??? Buy a nice, reliable, OLD used car that is not flashy, not pretty, not sexy, not souped up and not more than you can afford!! [stick] I wish I had a penny for every time I see some young hotshit 18-24yrold in a $30K car they can't afford. Personal debt and personal bankruptcy among 18-25yrolds is RECORD HIGH!! I can't imagine being bankrupt at 25!!! But I CAN imagine it if I'm a PolySci major with no job skills driving a $30K car complaining that no one's giving me an $45K/yr "entry-level" position with an expense account and an office with a view. If you can't afford it - don't buy it. Not buying it NOW is the secret to being able to afford it... LATER.
(6) They see their parents in financial and emotional straits, getting laid off betwen 40-50 and wonder what The American Dream is all about.
View Quote
Waaa-waaa-waaa! I want my white picket fence!!! Get a grip! The American Dream is doing what you love. Period. And along the way, you oughta learn that if you can't afford it - don't buy it!!! Save your money for a rainy day. Save a bit more for your old age. Skip a vacation or two. Pass on that new AR. Scrimp, save, work and prepare for hardship. If you want to become rich someday, don't expect to get rich quick - EVER (and "quick" means in less than 25 years) If you're hardworking, honest, love what you do and get a little bit lucky once or twice, you'll find yourself on a golf course when your 65 saying "I earned this." The generation that lived through the depression is rolling in their grave at the attitude of today's yutes.
(7) They see uneducated basketball players skip college and sign with Nike for $90 Million right out of high school and wonder: "Where do I go to stand in THAT Line?"
View Quote
Funny, they don't ever wonder "Hey, what ever happened to Len Bias?" And if seeing kid with an incredible one-in-a-million talent get paid millions bothers you, then maybe the problem lies a lot deeper in you than just your wallet.
(8) They see a guy by the name of Tiger hit a little round ball on TV and make millions before he is 25 and say: "Where do I go to school to learn how to do that?"
View Quote
Yeah, quite the covetous generation we gotz here. These are the same doofuses who see a $300million lotto jackpot and take a cash advance on their near-maxed out VISA at 19.9% to buy 1000 tickets.
(9) Then when reality sinks in they go down to the local Army recruting office and told they are unfit to serve their country because their parents doped them with Ritalin half the lives.
View Quote
Yeah, it's the parent's fault a 23year old college grad is undereducated, unskilled, buried in debt and enormously self-centered and jealous of other's achievements. Fucking parents. And the Gov't too!
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 2:44:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By rlitt: (1) Low paying or NO jobs for college graduates.
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Its called entry level. Why does every 22 year old with a degree think they are entitled to 70K a year with their first job? Oh thats right, because they are entitled to a BMW by 25.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 3:07:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/28/2003 3:10:17 AM EDT by Bobby_the_Hun]
GREED[8D]
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 3:26:21 AM EDT
I was going to go into a long, thoughtful discussion, until I read The_Macallan's post. Now, I'm just going to say-- "Yeah, what HE said!"
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 4:10:14 AM EDT
The real evil out there are the bankers who loan the money for student loans and send out 100's of credit cards to people who don't need them. Them, plus the communication moguls who are turning this country into a la la land. There is only one solution and that is to:
take the profiteer out of the marketplace.
View Quote
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 5:43:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/28/2003 5:47:37 AM EDT by DoubleFeed]
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 5:56:37 AM EDT
I was going to do an point-by-point reply, but my friends DK-Prof and The_Macallan did such a fine job there is nothing much left to say. The self pitying nature of these questions is the end result of the "entitlement" attitude that the federal government has been feeding the last 25+ years. You aren't "entitled" to anything but your Constitutional Rights which are unalienable and given by God. You have to [u]work[/u] for the rest.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 6:03:29 AM EDT
the year was 1953. i was just born. my father, earning less than $1/hour, had 2 children, a wife, a house payment, a car and enough of everything we needed to be happy. i would not blame "big bisiness" or the "u.s. government" for your discontent. go look in a mirror.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 6:24:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack: I should have to agree with Jonathon Swift, that it is a modest proposal that we eat the children of the poor, that they not starve in this cruel world! If you read enough you may understand this post!
View Quote
You guys are reading Swift??? Great author!
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 8:19:29 AM EDT
Sorry but our business leaders ARE selling many of us down the river and our government is doing nothing about it. History has shown that no regulation of business is just as bad as too much regulation. Look how many computer professionals are now out of work because people like michael dell has to keep cutting prices to maintain (MAINTAIN) a price war. American is strong because middle-class citizens work to make it strong; not because the wealthy are smarter or work harder then everyone else. When the wealthy stop rewarding the people "who work for them" and hoard the wealth instead it is time for someone to do something about it.
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