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Posted: 4/28/2001 9:17:43 PM EDT
If the Clinton AW Ban sunsets in 2004 and congress reenacts it, but there is at least a few days/months/years gap before they do, will that allow us to legally change our "post-ban" firearms to a "pre-ban" configuration and purchase new hi-cap mags? I'm just dreamin'. I think the best thing that could happen would be for the Supreme Court to rule in our favor on Emerson or Bob Stewart's case. That would set a precedence and send a message to those anti-freedom bastards.
Link Posted: 4/28/2001 9:22:25 PM EDT
I'd say there could be a good case made for it. But then now we've warned them (they probably all monitor this forum) so the antis will surely figure something out. [sniper] The Sniper
Link Posted: 4/28/2001 10:32:36 PM EDT
they dont have the man power or the dollers to moniter the millions ok maybe not million but hundreds of thousands of gun sites any way what will happpen is before it sunsets a new bill will go into effect
Link Posted: 4/28/2001 10:35:21 PM EDT
I'm not so sure of that -- it'll be interesting. The sunset on that bill will be four months before the next election, I believe. I highly doubt that Bush will be looking to p.o. his base of support that close to an election.
Link Posted: 4/28/2001 10:46:54 PM EDT
Not to mention that the liberals could benefit from the ban sun setting. A week before the election they tried to tarnish his image with his dui record, but it was not damaging enough to kill his campaign. Now in 2004 I belive that they will let the ban expire so that they can say: "Look! He made America a more dangerous place by letting wackos own semiautomatic machineguns. We need (insert liberal canidate's name here) in office so that we can make this country safe from these militia freaks before they kill our children." Then, regardless of which canadate wins, congress will enact Kali type AW registration/ban, because "something needs to be done." Kyle
Link Posted: 4/29/2001 5:15:50 AM EDT
The antis would probably draft the new law with a date that didn't let us have AWs built after '94 is all. They'll try to get new post ban rifles outlawed. It'll be an interesting election. I think the antis don't want a law in Sept. They want an issue in Nov.
Link Posted: 4/29/2001 5:21:29 AM EDT
Has anyone taken the AW ban to the supreme court. I thought that is what people did when there were unconstitutional laws.
Link Posted: 4/29/2001 6:17:31 AM EDT
The Supreme Court has refused to listed to AW ban related cases, on multiple occasions.
Link Posted: 4/29/2001 6:39:14 AM EDT
I couldn't say what will happen, I have no faith in Bush to do anything to change the ban. I think he will have a tough time getting reelected, anyway. John
Link Posted: 4/29/2001 11:46:08 AM EDT
Being that the way things have gone in America I think we should leave the issue alone. I know it is not the most popular view but I think we can get even more screwed by trying to fight it. Now at least we can have post ban guns. Which are very effective weapons and are great target rifles. If I have to choose from a post ban or nothing I choose a post ban. Also NY has mirrored an AW ban. But ours have been made not to sunset. So will the anti gun states that have this AW ban be the progun AW states. Or at least till they change it. I think we are fighting a loosing cause and things are only to get worse. Not one law that I know of has been repealed.
Link Posted: 4/29/2001 11:55:19 AM EDT
Good idea Lougotzz. Let's stop fighting all the gunlaws. Maybe they'll leave us alone. Never. We should all be writing legislators daily.
Link Posted: 4/29/2001 1:02:35 PM EDT
Depending on what state you live in, it might not make a difference. The firearm prohibitionists in many state legislatures are passing copies of the federal law. They run it through saying something like "It only mirrors existing federal law". What they don't tell anyone is that the state laws don't "sunset", they are permanent. This way they get a permanent ban that can be added to later, and they don't get too upset about losing the federal ban. The sunset of the federal law is useful to them as a political campaign issue, but they hope to have the terms carved in stone on the state level. It still makes one wonder why politicians and their minions fear honest, law abiding citizens, and have an overpowering need to eliminate the people's means of personal defense.
Link Posted: 4/29/2001 1:41:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kevin N: Good idea Lougotzz. Let's stop fighting all the gunlaws. Maybe they'll leave us alone. Never. We should all be writing legislators daily.
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Link Posted: 4/29/2001 1:42:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kevin N: Good idea Lougotzz. Let's stop fighting all the gunlaws. Maybe they'll leave us alone. Never. We should all be writing legislators daily.
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I didn't mean it like that I just wouldn't want it to backfire and be worse then it is now. And by the way kevin I didn't like your tone.
Link Posted: 4/29/2001 3:58:18 PM EDT
My tone is that of a gunowner that has had enough
Being that the way things have gone in America I think we should leave the issue alone. I know it is not the most popular view but I think we can get even more screwed by trying to fight it. I think we are fighting a loosing cause and things are only to get worse.
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These are statements of cowardness. I was pissed after reading it. I thought I held back my true thoughts very well in my first post. After you join the NRA, GOA, etc., you will begin receiving information of what the rest of us are fighting for. Do your part, don't try encouraging others to GIVE UP.
Link Posted: 4/29/2001 5:39:39 PM EDT
Hey I am a NRA member I vote in every election and e-mail the politicians and write letters. But if you haven't noticed things have not been going our way and for a long time. Things have been getting worse and worse every year. I have a double jepordy I live in NY. So to take the tone with me try it on an anti not your allie. Or maybe I should try it this way. Don't worry kevin we have a predident that will oppose all anti gun legislation. We will not see any more gun control for at least 4 more years. He is behind us 100%. Don't fret. We will repeal all the gun control laws on the book. It is going to be ok. We will become like the state of Vermont. They don't have any gun laws. Now what response would you like the truth or a politicians speech. Get real we are in the minority in this country. You are not going to change this, prolong it maybe but not eliminate this. They are to many. More then us. Now you know what the indians felt like. Fed up. Why? Cause you know what I just said is the truth. So my origianl statement of saying lets not let this backfire is not so stupid at all. We have a better chance of keeping our rifles if the ban stays the same then trying to repeal it. Because AW are banned. How can we ban something that is banned already. If it does get repealed, they will now include post banned also in the new law. So then production will come to a grinding hault. Be happy that law is not a total ban where you had to hand everything in. Production is still in full force. More and more people are buying them cause of the stink that was made. I think we got off easy with such a hostile climate for the last 8 years. Don't forget Bush SR. He banned plenty with the stroke of a pen. Oh I know his son will be different. Well I hope so I voted for him.
Link Posted: 4/29/2001 11:28:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bob_L: The Supreme Court has refused to listed to AW ban related cases, on multiple occasions.
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Were these cases based on the second amendment or some other wimpy defense.
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 3:52:33 AM EDT
Q-man, I notice that also. When a case goes in front of th SC it is based on other rights being trampled. Look at Brady Act part of it was unconstitutional based on the 10th amendment. So why won't we get a ruling on the 2nd. I don't know. What does it mean shall not be infrindged. Vermont style laws. Good luck in trying to get the federal Government to adopt that. Brady was not even repealed that is what I was talking about when I made my statement to kevin. Reality is reality. I don't like it either but this is what we are up against.
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 4:17:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 4:50:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Garand Shooter: This brings up an interesting question...are you guys willing to accept the sunset of the ban with no new legislation IF it means GW losing the election?
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My answer to that would have to be no. I do wonder if it's possible for GW to push Congress to extend the ban for 1 year. This way the left (scum) couldn't use it to any political advantage in the 2004 Presidential election and we would have 3 years to disprove their lies and let the topic cool before the 2008 election.
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 4:52:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ipschoser1: I do wonder if it's possible for GW to push Congress to extend the ban for 1 year. This way the left (scum) couldn't use it to any political advantage in the 2004 Presidential election.
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That's possibly the most intelligent thing I have ever seen on this board.
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 4:59:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Q-Man: I think the best thing that could happen would be for the Supreme Court to rule in our favor on Emerson or Bob Stewart's case. That would set a precedence and send a message to those anti-freedom bastards.
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Sure it would. Just like in 1936-1937 when FDR threatened to pack the court with up to 15 Justices. Which is, by the way, 100% perfectly constitutional. After the Bush v. Gore debacle, abd this seat belt ruling (correct but very unpopular), the Supreme Court has very little political capital and will be smart to lay very, very, low until it gets some more conservative members. You might disagree, but then you'd be wrong. [;)]
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 5:05:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By copterdoctor: The sunset of the federal law is useful to them as a political campaign issue, but they hope to have the terms carved in stone on the state level. It still makes one wonder why politicians and their minions fear honest, law abiding citizens, and have an overpowering need to eliminate the people's means of personal defense.
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because they want all the power, and that means that by the constitution we the "armed" people can overthrow the gov't. take out the"armed" and we are nothing. thats why the gun laws.
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 5:09:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Lougotzz: Now what response would you like the truth or a politicians speech. Get real we are in the minority in this country. You are not going to change this, prolong it maybe but not eliminate this. They are to many. More then us. Now you know what the indians felt like. Fed up. Why? Cause you know what I just said is the truth.
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there are more of us than anyone knows, its just that we need to make our presence known.
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 5:12:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Garand Shooter: This brings up an interesting question...are you guys willing to accept the sunset of the ban with no new legislation IF it means GW losing the election?
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if every gun owner voted for him he would win by a landslide. the opposition should not be our primary concern. getting our viewpoint known should be.
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 5:14:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ipschoser1: My answer to that would have to be no. I do wonder if it's possible for GW to push Congress to extend the ban for 1 year. This way the left (scum) couldn't use it to any political advantage in the 2004 Presidential election and we would have 3 years to disprove their lies and let the topic cool before the 2008 election.
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now this guy is a real tactition, good thinking. lets tell bush..
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 6:09:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2001 6:11:27 AM EDT by Garand_Shooter]
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 6:14:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Garand Shooter: Possibly... But since he would not be running again where would his motivation be for doing this?
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perhapse to give america the best chance, but more to keep the damn dems. out of office. i really think he would have a good chance for re-election if it just sunset. i dont think killery would have anywhare near as good a chance on a national scale as she did here.
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 6:42:52 AM EDT
One problem for AR15 owners is that there aren't that many of us among the total group of gun owners. A lot of the "deer hunters" could care less if the government took away the AR15's. I have been to our range many times to shoot, and get shunned and put down by the guys and their M70's , M700's, etc. In other words, if we are to keep our "assault weapons," I would not necesarily rely on the NRA or the rank and file gun owner to help us. If we could somehow rally ALL the gun owners to a common cause to keep all legal firearms from the government, we would have a chance. I do not have a lot of faith in most politicians. They seem to go where the wind blows. Just my opinion, John
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 6:52:49 AM EDT
People need to understand that together we stand, divided we fall. In a way, I can see where the "deer hunters with their M70s and M700s" are coming from. Until I started shooting 3 gun matches, I was not a fan of the AR15 or any other military style semi automatic rifle. However, I was not going to shun another shooter because I didn't like his equipment. Everyone needs to understand that we have to stick together on the issue of gun rights, or we will lose them. Keep the faith and try to help others understand these things. ML
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 8:07:40 AM EDT
[b]People need to understand that together we stand, divided we fall. In a way, I can see where the "deer hunters with their M70s and M700s" are coming from. Until I started shooting 3 gun matches, I was not a fan of the AR15 or any other military style semi automatic rifle. However, I was not going to shun another shooter because I didn't like his equipment. Everyone needs to understand that we have to stick together on the issue of gun rights, or we will lose them. Keep the faith and try to help others understand these things. ML[/b] Yea: how many times ive told hunters. i wasted my breath on people with guns telling them they are losing there rights but its going through one ear out the other. look how many people started malitia's and we just lost more right's ive sat there awhile at a booth signing petition's and look how many shooter's just walk on by don't want to get involved. one thing i hear alot about people talks shit about "i will be sniping at these police that are confiscating our guns" give me a break! if you really want to not have a worry in the world about gun confiscation learn how to make your own weapons its that simple they cannot take away what is in your head learn to be self-reliance. here's what i personally think about the shtf crap learn to find water. learn how to store water and keep it from stagnating. learn how to get food and store it. MRE's are find but you are depending on other people to supply you. your guns in your safe can be taken away at any time; you got to leave your house sometime. learn how to get clothing. learn to have a escape plan especially from riot prone cities; learn to pack up quickly get out fast.
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 2:23:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Mr Clean: One problem for AR15 owners is that there aren't that many of us among the total group of gun owners. A lot of the "deer hunters" could care less if the government took away the AR15's. I have been to our range many times to shoot, and get shunned and put down by the guys and their M70's , M700's, etc. In other words, if we are to keep our "assault weapons," I would not necesarily rely on the NRA or the rank and file gun owner to help us. If we could somehow rally ALL the gun owners to a common cause to keep all legal firearms from the government, we would have a chance. I do not have a lot of faith in most politicians. They seem to go where the wind blows. Just my opinion, John
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I have to agree with you 100%. I was getting a haircut and the barber I go to has field and stream on the counter. So I picked it up and there was a survey about gun control and it was based towards the hunter and they were all in favor of licensing,registration,AW ban,Handgun ban and everything eles. Their argument was I am going to do nothing wrong so why should I not want to get a license. Most hunters pick up their gun 1 week a year and fire a total of 2 boxes of ammo a year. They are generaly not avid shooters. Deer season and maybe a hunt of a lifetime. What a shame these people think their Model 70 is safe. Yea maybe with a fixed 3 shot mag and a license fee of 1000 dollars a year and you can buy 1 box of ammo a year. If you call that safe then I think we are in trouble!!!
Link Posted: 4/30/2001 5:24:14 PM EDT
I don't know if any of you attended the Gun Rights Policy Conference last year, but GW sent a letter that was read at the Conference. He expressly said that if the AW ban comes across his desk, he will sign it into law again. If any of you gets a chance to attend a GRPC, I would highly recommend it. It was a weekend long conference with many speakers, and is held in a different city each year. The best thing is that it's free. They give you so many books and they even feed you all weekend too. It's put on by the Second Amendment Foundation ([url]www.saf.org[/url]) Apparently this year it is to be held in Cincinatti on Sept 21-23.
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 4:04:53 AM EDT
I think everyone is putting to much faith in politians. The founding fathers put their faith in God. I think that is one of the biggest problems with this country. Everyone for what ever reason is running to the politican forum for their cause.. Gunners too. I am not saying not to vote but if everyone in the country didn't want something from a politician they would have very limited power. The more a politician gives you the more freedom he want from you. And you can take that to the bank.
Link Posted: 5/1/2001 7:39:35 PM EDT
Well, I have faith that the politicians will keep instituting more unconstitutional laws. The only recourse we have at this time is to vote, and to inundate our elected officials with letters and/or phone calls to let them know that we are paying attention to what they do. (Even though they generally don't seem to pay much attention.) Of course voting in politicians with true freedom loving, founding-father-type values seems hopeless, but I refuse to give up without a fight.
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