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Posted: 5/27/2003 12:49:17 PM EDT
Of US firearms manufacturers that make their products here in this country, I realized that only Smith and Wesson is left. True, Ruger is another, but I would not consider them in the same premium class as Smith and Wesson. Don't get me wrong, Ruger makes some fine firearms, but their products do not reach the legendary status of the Smith and Wesson revolvers. Comparing Ruger to Smith and Wesson is like comparing Glock to HK. The heritage, the mystique, etc still belong to Smith and Wesson. Other companies, like Browning and Winchester, though with US legacies, are now controlled by foreign interests. And they don't actually manufacture arms any more. Springfield Armory makes some guns here in the US, but many of their models are contract from Brazil and imported from Croatia. Colt is another premium arms maker, but the company does not match Smith and Wesson in terms of corporate size and products offered to the CIVILIAN market. Colt makes most of its profit from government/military sales. Smith and Wesson have turned out some flops - like the Sigma pistols - but their revolvers continue to be the benchmark, and enjoy world renown. And they are ALL made in the USA. That said, if you want to support the American economy, then the only guns you should buy are those made by Smith and Wesson!
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 12:52:56 PM EDT
What about all the smaller manufacturers like Wilson?
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 12:53:56 PM EDT
Nonsense. [url=http://www.stiguns.com]STI International[/url] - Duty, CCW, and competition firearms WAY more premium than S&W. US design, manufactured, and owned.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 12:56:53 PM EDT
Remington? Armalite, Bushmaster, DPMS, Rock River...?
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 12:57:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/27/2003 12:59:26 PM EDT by fight4yourrights]
Kimber. Kahr.
Originally Posted By clean_cut: That said, if you want to support the American economy, then the only guns you should buy are those made by Smith and Wesson!
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[b][size=4]FUCK SMITH AND WESSON[/b][/size=4] I will never forgive them for selling out to the Klinton Administration, and they are still subject to that agreement. S&W is very responsible for helping SB211 pass in Maryland, ushering in built-in locks and ballistic fingerprinting. [b][size=4]FUCK SMITH AND WESSON[/b][/size=4]
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 12:58:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By stipilot: Nonsense. [url=http://www.stiguns.com]STI International[/url] - Duty, CCW, and competition firearms WAY more premium than S&W. US design, manufactured, and owned.
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show me a revolver they make ?
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 1:02:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cyanide: show me a revolver they make ?
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show me a longarm that S&W makes ?
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 1:07:07 PM EDT
Of the companies suggested, I would say they are mainly semi-custom houses or 1911 tuners (or started that way). Kimber gets some of their guns/frames/components from other countries. Wilson started out as a 1911 tuner, and though they expanded to shotguns etc they still outsource. Freedom Arms is semi-custom, by volume. When you think German gunmaker, you think HK. Swiss - Sig. European in general - FN Group. Ask a foreigner who is a premium US company and they would say Smith and Wesson.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 1:22:28 PM EDT
Go to Remington..... Their custom shop products are , arguably, the finest in the world.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 1:37:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By clean_cut: When you think German gunmaker, you think HK. Swiss - Sig. European in general - FN Group. Ask a foreigner who is a premium US company and they would say Smith and Wesson.
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An absolutely none of these 'foreigners' would buy a S&W if they had easy access to a HK, Sig, FN, etc... Hell, I live in America and wouldn't buy a S&W. (well, I might...a blued cowboy revolver would be cool)
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 1:39:46 PM EDT
Clean_cut...you posted the same crap on The High Road...I responded to the stupid concept. Any company that climbed into the sack with Bill & Janet doesn't need our support. I agree with what fight4your rights said in his first post. -hanko
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 1:40:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 1:43:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By hanko: Clean_cut...you posted the same crap on The High Road...I responded to the stupid concept. Any company that climbed into the sack with Bill & Janet doesn't need our support. I agree with what fight4your rights said in his first post. -hanko
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Hanko...where are you from?
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 3:03:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By clean_cut: Of US firearms manufacturers that make their products here in this country, I realized that only Smith and Wesson is left. True, Ruger is another, but I would not consider them in the same premium class as Smith and Wesson.
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I think you are actually thinking about brand recognition, and not the quality of their product. True the other don't have the same recognition as the Colts, Smiths, Winchesters. What about the Marlins and the 335 lever actions? They date back to the old wild west.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 3:30:10 PM EDT
I agree you're talking mostly name recognition. That being the case,I'd argue most Americans and foreigners would name Colt as much if not more often as the most storied US firearms maker. Doesn't Les Baer make there own premium 1911 and AR parts?
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 3:44:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 4:16:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By clean_cut: Hanko...where are you from?
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Clean_cut/bin...currently about 30 miles SW of Boise. Before that, Flower Mound near DFW for about 15 years. -hanko
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 5:20:39 PM EDT
Oh yeah, what about Marlin?
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 5:33:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cyanide:
Originally Posted By stipilot: Nonsense. [url=http://www.stiguns.com]STI International[/url] - Duty, CCW, and competition firearms WAY more premium than S&W. US design, manufactured, and owned.
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show me a revolver they make ?
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who gives a damn?
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 5:52:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By clean_cut: [red]Of US firearms manufacturers[/red] that make their products here in this country, I realized that only Smith and Wesson is left. True, Ruger is another, but I would not consider them in the same premium class as Smith and Wesson. Don't get me wrong, Ruger makes some fine firearms, but their products do not reach the legendary status of the Smith and Wesson revolvers. Comparing Ruger to Smith and Wesson is like comparing Glock to HK. The heritage, the mystique, etc still belong to Smith and Wesson. Other companies, like Browning and Winchester, though with US legacies, are now controlled by foreign interests. And they don't actually manufacture arms any more. Springfield Armory makes some guns here in the US, but many of their models are contract from Brazil and imported from Croatia. Colt is another premium arms maker, but the company does not match Smith and Wesson in terms of corporate size and products offered to the CIVILIAN market. Colt makes most of its profit from government/military sales. Smith and Wesson have turned out some flops - like the Sigma pistols - but their revolvers continue to be the benchmark, and enjoy world renown. And they are ALL made in the USA. That said, if you want to support the American economy, then the only guns you should buy are those made by Smith and Wesson!
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[lol] Someone forgot DPMS, Colt, Sig Sauer, RRA, Armalite, Bushmaster, Ruger, Mosserberg, Walther, and Browning is still making some USA made Guns. Smith & Wesson was a sell out and I would not buy any of their new Guns past Sept. 1994. Shit I haven't bought any of their Guns. I still have one Smith & Wesson, but that will be the only one.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 7:14:18 PM EDT
I feel the need to point out to fight4yourrights that the Smith and Wesson he is talking about was owned by a Brit company that had to sell because everyone told them to screw when they got in bed with Klinton. Now its owned by an American company and its business as it should be. So please remember that if you see an Airlight in .357 that you must have you can buy it guilt and anger free like I did.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 7:27:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jshooter: I feel the need to point out to fight4yourrights that the Smith and Wesson he is talking about was owned by a Brit company that had to sell because everyone told them to screw when they got in bed with Klinton. Now its owned by an American company and its business as it should be. So please remember that if you see an Airlight in .357 that you must have you can buy it guilt and anger free like I did.
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Doesn't Saf-T-hammer own S+W now? If I remember right, their owner somehow was afiliated with S+W when all that crap was going on, I am not sure though. I still refuse to buy anything made by them...period.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 7:32:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/27/2003 7:34:33 PM EDT by fight4yourrights]
Originally Posted By jshooter: I feel the need to point out to fight4yourrights that the Smith and Wesson he is talking about was owned by a Brit company that had to sell because everyone told them to screw when they got in bed with Klinton. Now its owned by an American company and its business as it should be. So please remember that if you see an Airlight in .357 that you must have you can buy it guilt and anger free like I did.
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NO, YOU CAN'T!! I am VERY aware of the recent history of S&W. The recent sale included S&W's debts, assets AND legal agreements. Today's S&W is still bound by the Klinton blackmailed agreement. S&W doesn't get a Free Pass that easily. Until they get the agreement recided, they can rot in hell. Frankly, I wish the company had been broken up and sold off. Much better that a new start up buy their machinery and start over than try to polish a turd.
Originally Posted By jshooter: Airlight in .357
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I bought a Taurus instead.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 7:34:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By pighelmet:
Originally Posted By jshooter: I feel the need to point out to fight4yourrights that the Smith and Wesson he is talking about was owned by a Brit company that had to sell because everyone told them to screw when they got in bed with Klinton. Now its owned by an American company and its business as it should be. So please remember that if you see an Airlight in .357 that you must have you can buy it guilt and anger free like I did.
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Doesn't Saf-T-hammer own S+W now? If I remember right, their owner somehow was afiliated with S+W when all that crap was going on, I am not sure though. I still refuse to buy anything made by them...period.
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Even that .500 S&W that wadded Brady's pants all uptight? CRC
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 7:41:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Originally Posted By cyanide: show me a revolver they make ?
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show me a longarm that S&W makes ?
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[LOL]
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 7:42:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By clean_cut: Of the companies suggested, I would say they are mainly semi-custom houses or 1911 tuners (or started that way).[b] Kimber gets some of their guns/frames/components from other countries.[/b] Wilson started out as a 1911 tuner, and though they expanded to shotguns etc they still outsource. Freedom Arms is semi-custom, by volume. When you think German gunmaker, you think HK. Swiss - Sig. European in general - FN Group. Ask a foreigner who is a premium US company and they would say Smith and Wesson.
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I believe your wrong on this, my understanding is that Kimber gets it's steel forgings from S&W, as do several other major gun manufacturers. It seems that S&W have some of the best forges for small arms in the world. Just as Ruger has the advanced technolgies in casting parts, and their used by aerospace companies. Not sticking up for S&W, just and observation.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 7:43:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/27/2003 8:04:35 PM EDT by fight4yourrights]
[b]So we don't all forget how badly they sold our asses down the river:[/b] [url=http://www.impactsites2000.com/site3/news/news34.htm]The Smith & Wesson Sellout [/url] Here are just some of the terms of the S & W/Clinton-Gore Administration agreement: [b]CONSUMER IMPACT . . .[/b] Prohibited from buying more than one handgun in a 14-day period. Prohibited from buying a firearm without passing an unspecified safety test. Prohibited from buying a self-defense handgun that did not meet arbitrary accuracy standards. Prohibited, if under age 18, from even walking into the firearms section of a sporting goods store unless accompanied by a parent or guardian. [b]DEALER IMPACT . . .[/b] [b]Prohibited from selling legal semi-automatic rifles,[/b] commonplace ammunition magazines and firearms that do not meet the difficult standards established in the agreement. [b]Prohibited from selling firearms at any gun show where any legal private sale is conducted.[/b] Required to include with every firearm sold, a false written statement in large bold-face type that hundreds of children die each year from firearm accidents. Required to carry $1 million in liability insurance and perform tasks properly handled by law enforcement to comply with the edicts of a new "Oversight Commission." [b]MANUFACTURER IMPACT . . .[/b] Prohibited from marketing any firearm in a way that appeals to young shooters and hunters. Required to dedicate 1% of revenues to a propaganda campaign promoting the dangers of gun ownership. Required to support legislative efforts to reduce firearms misuse and development of "smart" gun technology. [b]Required to "ballistically fingerprint" every firearm, thus setting up backdoor national firearms registration.[/b] Required to meet certain unproven design standards for handguns sold only to civilians--guns sold to military and police would be exempted, thereby showing the intent is not to make guns safer or better, but to impose standards that will ultimately eliminate sales, to private citizens. Required to manufacture pistol with positive, manually-operated safety devices as determined by BATF standards applying to imported handguns. BATF has repeatedly handed down politically-driven misinterpretations of the "sporting purposes" importation law, to prohibit many semi-auto rifles and handguns.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 7:51:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/27/2003 8:04:20 PM EDT by fight4yourrights]
Maybe I am being a little harsh. But I don't remember S&W ever coming out and apologizing, admitting they screwed up by screwing us. [b]The damage done in Maryland CAN'T be undone. So tell me what stops the next adminstration from reinforcing the DEAL?[/b] [url=http://www.smithandwesson.com/headline.xml?producer=headline&ACTION=SHOW&headline=100036]AMERICAN RIFLEMAN: FROM THE EDITOR - "WELCOME BACK, WE MISSED YOU."[/url]
The good news is that S&W is again an American-owned company with shooters and hunters at the helm. In May 2001, Arizona-based Saf-T-Hammer Corp. bought S&W from Tompkins PLC. Bob Scott, an S&W vice president from 1989 to 1999, came back to run the company as president. With gun zealots no longer controlling the executive branch of the federal government, the HUD agreement was abandoned by the Bush administration. Then the Boston agreement was vacated after discussions between the city and the company.
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Link Posted: 5/27/2003 7:54:15 PM EDT
Unbelievable on 2 counts: 1. That S&W is the only premium firearms manufacturer is an absolute joke. Is the author of this thread an S&W employee? 2. The agreement is not dead, no matter how much some of you deny it. It was entered into as a court order and can only be nullified by a judge, usually the judge who accepted the agreement initially. Saf-T-Hammer has made no effort to have is rescinded and any future Dem president can enforce it. The deal is not dead.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 8:01:10 PM EDT
I think the author of this thread was talking about name recognition. You know: Colt and S&W. CRC
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 8:09:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CRC: I think the author of this thread was talking about name recognition. You know: Colt and S&W. CRC
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Oh, I think this speaks volumes about the [i]GOAL[/i] of the post:
That said, if you want to support the American economy, then the only guns you should buy are those made by Smith and Wesson!
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Link Posted: 5/27/2003 10:33:49 PM EDT
When I think of premium firearms I think Freedom Arms, Dakota Arms, Less Bauer, Wilson. When I think companys I won't do business with S&W and Glock come rapidly to mind.
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