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Posted: 5/27/2003 8:31:10 AM EDT
Gunsite? Thunder Ranch? others?
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 8:42:16 AM EDT
TDI [url]http://www.tdiohio.com/[/url]
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 9:01:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 10:38:27 AM EDT
Nobody else? From this bunch?
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 11:02:16 AM EDT
I did DHG1 last November at Thunder Ranch and going back this year for DHG2. Worth every penny.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 11:04:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 11:22:46 AM EDT
I don't care about team tactics. What I'm mostly looking for is something geared towards a CWP holder, and/or home defense. Travel is no object right now, but obviously if there is an amazing school I'm not condidering that's close by that would be best. One caveat on travel. I'm in Ft. Lauderdale. For me to fly to Tallahassee it costs around $200, to drive there takes about 8 hours. I can get to NYC, Chicago, Baltimore, Boston, all faster and cheaper than I can get to Tallahassee which is closer.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 11:22:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/27/2003 11:34:20 AM EDT by u-baddog]
What kind of training, how far , how long. http://blackwaterusa.com/new/index.html If you want it they have it from Speed stuff (http://www.toddjarrett.com/) to LEO stuff. Edited because you beat me to the answers. The 3 day pistol course sounds about right. Alot depends on who the instuctor is. It's possible it will be a exSeal or a ex or current Cop as you can guess the skill level is not the same. If you tell them what you are looking for and your skill level they should make a match. I have never spoken with anyone who was not military that has trained there unless it was a class by Todd. If it was Todd's pistol class it was all about draw and speed and they were happy. Arent you shooting Ipsc or IDPA lately ? If you would like to improve for either Todd is a great teacher. Oh if you ever get up there it is 45 min'd from the house, beers on me [beer]
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 11:24:24 AM EDT
I live 20 miles from the Gunsite school. I think the 250 course they offer is top of the line. I also believe that Thunder Ranch also offers very much the same courses. I don't think you can go wrong with either school, but since GS is virtually in my back yard my, GS gets my nod....
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 11:25:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 11:32:12 AM EDT
Thunder Ranch (Clint Smith) or Lethal Force Institute (Massad Ayoob). Both are excellent, but emphasize different aspects of defensive shooting. TR is mostly shooting and mindset, while LFI is mostly legal advice and mindset. I've attended both Defensive Handgun (TR) and LFI-1, both are excellent. However, you might have more personal attention at Thunder Ranch, as the classes are smaller.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 11:35:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By lordtrader: [url]www.tftt.com[/url]
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thanks, but I am NOT going to cali, cali, cali, I ain't going to cali; man I don't think so.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 11:48:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 11:57:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Scottman: TDI [url]http://www.tdiohio.com/[/url]
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Scott, you truly are the man. I can't even count how many times I've been to John's. Dollar for dollar, his is the best school out there. It doesn't all of the frills that the others do, but it doesn't have the egos to deal with either. John and his instructors put on a great class, and they're deadly serious about it. I just visited him a few weeks ago. They're building a 3-story shoot house in the field by the "jungle lane". It should be impressive when it's finished.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 12:00:08 PM EDT
Dude, LFI 1 isn't just a great course, it'll keep your ass out of the courtroom AND it's coming to you (Live Oak, FL) in December. Do a Yahoo! or Google search on 'LFI lethal force institute' and do a little research. Check out [url]www.ayoob.com[/url] for a schedule. Just finished an entire week of training up in Ripon, WI myself. I took LFI 2 and LFI Emergency Rifle and really enjoyed the instruction given by the "Reverend Billy Bob Ayoob of the Church of Lethal Force and Brotherly Love" IMMENSLY. Got to meet fellow ARFCOMer bogz too (You are one hell of a good shot BOGZ!). Also, I'd second the above endorsement of TDI - I wish I lived closer to Cincinnati because I wouldn't hesitate to take their entire catalog.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 12:22:14 PM EDT
I've been to three classes at Thunder Ranch. Defensive Handgun 1, 2, and Urban Rifle. They were excellent classes. I am kind of a "ringer" when I attend training classes, as I have been involved in adult Training most of my career. I can tell good training from bad training. Thunder Ranch was excellent. It is worth the price just to hear Clint's lectures, but you also will shoot till your hands are sore. The simulator drills (The Terminator) are great and you learn stuff you never imagined you would know. The other schools that the other guys have mentioned are also good schools from what I've heard. But I [u]know[/u] that Thunder Ranch is excellent training.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 12:36:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dolomite: Dude, LFI 1 isn't just a great course, it'll keep your ass out of the courtroom AND it's coming to you (Live Oak, FL) in December. Do a Yahoo! or Google search on 'LFI lethal force institute' and do a little research. Check out [url]www.ayoob.com[/url] for a schedule.
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Wow, thank you! I will really have to consider this, as it's about 4 hours from me and I likely can stay with friends in Gainesville for free. Are these classes actually taught by Ayoob himself? I must admit I've never forgiven him for his little Glock demonstration on 20/20 a few years ago, but that might not be a bad deal and I don't have to leave the state.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 12:45:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By lordtrader:
Originally Posted By norman74:
Originally Posted By lordtrader: [url]www.tftt.com[/url]
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thanks, but I am NOT going to cali, cali, cali, I ain't going to cali; man I don't think so.
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OK then LL Cool Norman74. [;)] I gotta tell ya though. I have taken a few classes from them and the instructions are outstanding!!!
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Are you allowed to train with real, live guns over there?
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 4:17:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 5:35:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By norman74: Are these classes actually taught by Ayoob himself?
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LFI 1 can be broken down into two parts: the shooting and the lecture. The lecture portion, which is called Judicious Use of Deadly Force, is 20 hours. In the two times I've taken it, every single cop and lawyer present readily admitted that what they had learned at the academy or law school regarding the use of lethal force in self-defense was dwarfed buy this presentation. Ayoob doesn't allow others to give his lecture. A lot of people I've talked to thought that JUDF would just be the "Broadway" version of his book [u]In the Gravest Extreme[/u], it ain't - by a long shot. The shooting portion is called StressFire! And while many have criticized this course for being a little light on the round count (500-750), I'm a firm believer in the StressFire system as being the best to learn first. Ayoob does allow the various LFI Staff scattered across the country to teach it, however, if he were in town for LFI 1, I'd be willing to bet that he'd run the whole thing. And that's a good thing, because he's a tireless teacher and won't quit as long as someone still has a question or concern. I'd give my left nut for a chance to be able to go down to TR before it closes, but it's just not in the cards right now (or more specifically, the checkbook). I've heard nothing but good things about it. There's been a lot of good suggestions on this thread - whichever school you choose you'll come out way ahead of the average person on the street - the important thing is to just do it.
I must admit I've never forgiven him for his little Glock demonstration on 20/20 a few years ago...
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Call him up or zip him an e-mail, ask him what the deal was.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 5:51:30 AM EDT
Having attended Gunsite I recommend you go to Thunder Ranch. I had to listen to several classmates at Gunsite rave about how much better things were at Thunder Ranch and how they wouldn't be back to Gunsite. Also heard great things about the Sig Academy and Surefire Institute.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 5:53:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Dolomite: ...I'd give my left nut for a chance to be able to go down to TR before it closes...
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What!? It's closing? I checked the [url=http://www.thunderranchinc.com/]Thunder Ranch[/url] website, the course schedule says the last full year of classes at the Texas location is 2004. There are photos of a "School of Arms" being built, where and what is this?
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 6:18:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 6:41:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Aimless: I thought Thunder Ranch was moving to Oregon, not closing.
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I don't know much of this as actual facts, but here are the rumors. Clint and Hiedi are moving to Oregon next year. They will start a new company. School of Arms will either be their new school or the new name of the old TR course. The actual grounds and buildings, equipment, etc. at TR are owned by an unidentified owner that lives on TR and leased the stuff to Clint. Clint's lease will be up next year and that's why he is moving to Oregon. He plans to do smaller training classes and travel around putting them on around the country. Don't know who, if anyone, will continue to run the present TR facility. It is too nice and expensive to just shut down, I imagine. Someone will probably be brought in to run it for the owner. As best I can tell, there are no hard feelings. Clint is just ready to semi-retire to a less busy schedule.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 6:47:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 4:50:22 PM EDT
You may want to look into OPS. I think they provide some outstanding programs.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 4:54:37 PM EDT
What type of training do you have now? What kind of budget? What is your goal with training?
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 8:23:22 PM EDT
#1 Thunder Ranch #2 Gunsite #3 There are a few others PRI, Cumberland, Rogers.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 10:03:52 PM EDT
I've only been to Frontsight. The sales pitch you get via email and direct mail after going there is unrelenting but the classes, instructors, student to instructor ratio, safety safety safety, and positive attitudes from the staff are all I could have expected and more. If the other schools are better than there are some really top notch schools in this country. It's outside of Vegas so flights and accomadation are cheap not to mention if you spouse is not a shooter she/he can have a vacation with you while you get to shoot and learn. Like Ayoob, Piazza (the founder and pres. of Fronsight) gives a long and (not 20 hours like Ayoob) and very intensive legal lecture on use of force and how to interact with the authorities after having to use lethal force.
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