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Posted: 5/25/2003 9:14:16 PM EDT
I pretty much regard them as useless. Well, 'cept fer one time there were some bees swarming around a mud puddle, and I blowed the hell out of them with my shot gun. 'Course, it also sprayed mud all over my garage and both vehicles. Like I says....useless. WHat's yer opinion???
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 9:16:46 PM EDT
How could something that you pull a trigger and it goes BOOM be useless?
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 9:17:03 PM EDT
Be great for home defense and clearing rooms if you had to IMO
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 9:17:45 PM EDT
Well, lets see. Can shoot a variety of ammunition, from flamethrower to buckshot to flechettes to slugs to... Delivers a broad impact zone Imparts a fantastic amount of lead onto a target, with the attendant tissue destruction and shock Shotguns are a fantastic tool.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 9:19:20 PM EDT
i had a change in tune when one of the instructors at my local range showed me a 2x6 with a 1" hole in it made by a 20 gauge with bird shot at 5 yards
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 9:19:46 PM EDT
I think the shotgun is the most versatile of all long arms. You have tons of ammo choices,hunting,defense,offense,less than lethal, different barrel lengths, accesories up the wazoo and it can be used in different applications such as room clearing, crowd control, long range up to 100 yds with slugs etc.All in all a pretty handy weapon. I wouldnt choose it for everything but it definately has its place in an arsenal.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 9:21:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: I pretty much regard them as useless. Well, 'cept fer one time there were some bees swarming around a mud puddle, and I blowed the hell out of them with my shot gun. 'Course, it also sprayed mud all over my garage and both vehicles. Like I says....useless. WHat's yer opinion???
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Do you duck hunt with your AR?
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 9:22:03 PM EDT
Try shooting a bird on the wing without one and tell me they are useless.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 9:22:41 PM EDT
There's no substitute for the sound a shotgun makes when it's racked! That's one weapons that speaks all languages.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 9:24:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By chaos4570: Do you duck hunt with your AR?
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What??? You don't???? [:D] Bill Clinton said he's all for duck hunting. And this demonstrates my CLEAR and UNDENIABLE NEED for full auto. Ever try to take a duck with a semi .223?? Trust me...it ain't easy. [:D] Actually, I don't duck hunt.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 9:28:54 PM EDT
If I could only choose one weapon it would be a shotgun. While not as sexy as my AR/AK/M1A/Garand etc. my 870 (or my Mossberg) will fill damn near any role I would ever need a weapon for.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 9:29:30 PM EDT
I'm kinda partial to my scatterguns...I own several. My baby is a Mossberg 590 with ghost ring sights, pressure switch xenon tac light, heat shield, side saddle and a quiet carry slide arm.. I want to Vang Comp it and get a tritium front sight for it when I get the money. (Accepting donations) [:D] My other one is a Mossberg 500 Cruiser with a top folding stock..Only a bead sight on it. Nothing fancy... And then the others are for bird hunting...
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 9:33:12 PM EDT
Middle of the night...If I could get to a long gun I would reach past the AR and get my Mossberg 500...reliability, short range power with a fast reduction in overpenetration risk.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 9:35:23 PM EDT
The only qualls i've ever had with shotguns, is the ammo limitations. Although the now banned USAS-12 has that fixed (25 round drums), the only other viable alternative is the Saiga w/ 8-round mags. Well, atleast with a shotgun you rarely have to worry about follow-up shots.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 9:36:47 PM EDT
Door knockers mainly...but DAMN fun [:D]
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 9:40:20 PM EDT
I've always thought of the shotgun as the any man's weapon. For very little money, you get incredible firepower, versatility, and reliability.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 9:40:56 PM EDT
Somewhere betweeen "limited use" and "ultimate boomstick." Just another tool in what should ideally be a large toolbox. I can think of plenty of situations that are ideally suited for a shotgun and I can think of several where I'd wish I had something else.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 9:41:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lumpy196: Door knockers mainly...but DAMN fun [:D]
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[rolleyes]
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 9:51:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Andreuha: The only qualls i've ever had with shotguns, is the ammo limitations. Although the now banned USAS-12 has that fixed (25 round drums), the only other viable alternative is the Saiga w/ 8-round mags. Well, atleast with a shotgun you rarely have to worry about follow-up shots.
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They aren't completely banned... They are NFA weapons ('destructive devices'), though... Further importation and production is off limits untill next September (if all goes well), though...
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 9:52:51 PM EDT
To me shotguns are cool in that they are the "garbage disposal" of the gun world. They will pretty much eat up anything you feed them. Want some wierd variety ammo? They'll take it and keep on chugging. Birdbombs? Show me a rifle that can do that. Slugs? COMMON! .68 caliber rifled slugs "whizzing" downrange is pretty damned cool. Then there's everything from #12 dust to the buckshot. I used to do a lot of hunting with a shotgun but now I don't use them that much other than occasional clay pigeon shooting and screwing around. They impress me as being a pretty versatile firearm, not the perfect tool for every job but for a wide variety of tasks they tend to get the job done if it's all you have access to.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 10:00:13 PM EDT
Shotguns are your go-to guns. I think they would be great in house to house fighting.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 10:13:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/25/2003 10:13:40 PM EDT by Wolfpack]
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 10:16:03 PM EDT
Close-range-annihilation.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 10:22:17 PM EDT
I think every one should fire a couple a rounds at several distances so that they know the limitations.. < also diffrent TYPES of ammo to see the diffrence.. > they are great up close but given some distance they lose thier "punch" ... well at least on ply-wood [:)]
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 10:26:56 PM EDT
If I could have only one gun, it would be a 12 gauge. Good for the greatest variety of uses; clays, birds, other small game, large game, and defense. To me, the shotgun's only limitations are size (compared to handgun), effective range (compared to .30 cal) and the larger size of ammunition.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 11:33:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 11:44:13 PM EDT
I actually went out shotgunning today with a few cop buddies. Used #8, OO, and 1oz slugs. Pretty fun becuase I was using my new 870. The devastataion at 5 yards with 1 round of #8 is crazy! Even better with the 00.
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 12:08:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/26/2003 12:08:47 AM EDT by Barrel-BurnerM2HB]
One of our guys took a 12 ga. slug in the leg four days ago. The doctors thought he might lose his leg. He now has a 4" titanium rod in his leg to replace the bone. Hard to think of anything else that can do that much damage.
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 12:13:21 AM EDT
I used to think they were worthless also. Then I tried trap shooting. Now I own two 12 gauges. Buy an old 870 or some thing and give it a try.
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 12:54:47 AM EDT
Talk about universal languages... I had just come out of a gun show last weekend, and I was carrying my newly-bought Winchester 12 gauge Defender with me to my car. So, anyway I reached my car which was parked next to a little park with trees and benches. Thinking I was alone, I decided to pump it once for the heck of it, before putting it into my car. Well, as soon as I did it I realized someone was watching me. Sure enough, a rastafarian-type homeless man sleeping on a park bench only a few yards away woke up from his afternoon nap and looked at me REAL HARD. I guess he knows what a shotgun pump sounds like. Sheepishly, I put the gun into the trunk and drove off. You think I gave him a start? I had this baby: [IMG]http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/2638747.jpg[/IMG]
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 1:35:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/26/2003 1:38:41 AM EDT by The_Macallan]
Depends on the load but I can't think of a better way to knock a bird out of the air (or cut a gangbanger in half to punish him for pissing on your floor at the sound of you racking it up right behind him.)
Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem- Do I even need to go on a rant about 00 buckshot? Lets see, 8mm balls doing 1200 fps, and I get 12 of them for each pull of the trigger, and my Mossberg 500 holds seven in home-defense configuration, so [red]if I have to unload the whole tube on someone at close range I've put no less than EIGHTY-FOUR 8mm holes in him, which I can do in a matter of 5 seconds or so. Anyone want to dispute the stopping power here?[/red]
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[b]"They're not highly accurate. You wouldn't hunt ducks or deer with them. They're used for one thing only: to kill a whole lot of people . . . quickly." ~ [red]Chuck Schumer[/red][/b] Oops I though this was about 'assault weapons' [:)]
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 4:41:11 AM EDT
My first choice for home defense is my Remington 870 Police Magnum. Many ammo choices and its built like a tank.
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 4:50:10 AM EDT
If I had to pick only one firearm it would definitely be a shotgun. They aren't as much fun as a rifle or handgun or even in the same league of funness as a machinegun, I don't take my shotgun to the range to shoot, but they are the most versatile gun available. It might not be the best at everything that it does, but it [b]will[/b] do everything. It is a good weapon for defense, with the right load a 12ga can kill just about any animal on the planet and a pump action is a very simple weapon. I'd take a shotgun in any survival situation in a heartbeat.
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 8:22:25 AM EDT
I think they have it all over pistols for home defense.
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 9:40:02 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 9:55:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/26/2003 9:58:06 AM EDT by M-60]
My Rem 870 security is the shiznit I bought it just for a 3 gun match and now its one of my favorite BOOM sticks.... [img]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PwDYAi8RwgCRE*VPuO85qH0ZvgyOCjkErUf9AaD9mGhD­RJbV4c0jELA74vCz!67SIh4uTL1GhfaWg1vkQuGXSwwam­8ophuHl/74_p6461.jpeg?dc=4675400790255234820[/img] its the one next to my AR and .223 AK The Pig.
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 10:04:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-: At close range there are few weapons that can STOP an assailant as quickly as a shotgun. In a home defense, close quarters battle, or room clearing situation, you aren't "shooting to wound" or "shooting to kill", you are shooting to stop. We can debate all night about the relative stopping power of 9mm vs. 45acp, but there is no debate surrounding the DECISIVE stopping power of a 12 gauge slug. I don't remember who wrote it, maybe Jim Cirrilo, but some old cop who had lived through multiple engagements and had studied alot of ballistics wrote that he had seen guys take multiple hits from .38 special, and had heard of guys taking multiple hits from .357 mag, and yet continue to fight for up to two minutes before succumbing to shock or bleeding out. He had never seen nor heard of anyone taking a shot in the upper body with a 12 gauge slug who hadn't gone down "like you turned off a lightswitch". What other close quarters weapon offers such stopping power? Do I even need to go on a rant about 00 buckshot? Lets see, 8mm balls doing 1200 fps, and I get 12 of them for each pull of the trigger, and my Mossberg 500 holds seven in home-defense configuration, so if I have to unload the whole tube on someone at close range I've put no less than EIGHTY-FOUR 8mm holes in him, which I can do in a matter of 5 seconds or so. Anyone want to dispute the stopping power here?
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And a Level IIA soft vest will stop that buckshot cold. A Level III will stop the slug. There was a time when you would have been correct in your assessment of the shotguns use against people. But that time has passed. .223 carbines are far better for personal protection today.
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 10:05:29 AM EDT
I see a shotgun as usefull in a limited scenario. For what it is intended, a shotgun is the ultimate. However 100 yards is not long range. I prefer a rifle for hunting (big game) because it allows for a greater variety of distances without decrease in accuracy or effectiveness. Shotgun is my weapon of choice for bird or rabbit. Handgun for home protection. I know some of you believe in the shotgun for home defense, but I don't see using a long gun in a situation where quick target aquisition is important. Each type of firearm has its purpose and does that job well. I will not try to substitute a handgun for duck hunting or use a shotgun for big game. So, I support the use of a shotgun for what it was designed.
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 10:06:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-: At close range there are few weapons that can STOP an assailant as quickly as a shotgun. In a home defense, close quarters battle, or room clearing situation, you aren't "shooting to wound" or "shooting to kill", you are shooting to stop. We can debate all night about the relative stopping power of 9mm vs. 45acp, but there is no debate surrounding the DECISIVE stopping power of a 12 gauge slug. I don't remember who wrote it, maybe Jim Cirrilo, but some old cop who had lived through multiple engagements and had studied alot of ballistics wrote that he had seen guys take multiple hits from .38 special, and had heard of guys taking multiple hits from .357 mag, and yet continue to fight for up to two minutes before succumbing to shock or bleeding out. He had never seen nor heard of anyone taking a shot in the upper body with a 12 gauge slug who hadn't gone down "like you turned off a lightswitch". What other close quarters weapon offers such stopping power? Do I even need to go on a rant about 00 buckshot? Lets see, 8mm balls doing 1200 fps, and I get 12 of them for each pull of the trigger, and my Mossberg 500 holds seven in home-defense configuration, so if I have to unload the whole tube on someone at close range I've put no less than EIGHTY-FOUR 8mm holes in him, which I can do in a matter of 5 seconds or so. Anyone want to dispute the stopping power here?
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And a Level IIA soft vest will stop that buckshot cold. A Level III will stop the slug. There was a time when you would have been correct in your assessment of the shotguns use against people. But that time has passed. .223 carbines are far better for personal protection today.
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Damn man!! Who are you shootin at?
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 10:14:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ponyboy: If I had to pick only one firearm it would definitely be a shotgun. They aren't as much fun as a rifle or handgun or even in the same league of funness as a machinegun, I don't take my shotgun to the range to shoot, but they are the most versatile gun available. It might not be the best at everything that it does, but it [b]will[/b] do everything. It is a good weapon for defense, with the right load a 12ga can kill just about any animal on the planet and a pump action is a very simple weapon. I'd take a shotgun in any survival situation in a heartbeat.
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If you were limited to one gun and one gun only AND needed to use it to feed yourself as well as defend yourself, in this scenereo then a 12ga shotgun would be the best choice, pretty much the only choice. Also if you are trapped as a denzin of New Jersey or California right now the shotgun would be your best available choice under the law, and in the eyes of local prosecutors. And in New Jersey its pretty much the only thing you are allowed to use for deer hunting anymore. But for those living in free states, and who don't have large, dangerous animals lurking around a .223 carbine is better for protection and save the 12ga for hunting birds.
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 10:16:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By M-60:
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-: At close range there are few weapons that can STOP an assailant as quickly as a shotgun. In a home defense, close quarters battle, or room clearing situation, you aren't "shooting to wound" or "shooting to kill", you are shooting to stop. We can debate all night about the relative stopping power of 9mm vs. 45acp, but there is no debate surrounding the DECISIVE stopping power of a 12 gauge slug. I don't remember who wrote it, maybe Jim Cirrilo, but some old cop who had lived through multiple engagements and had studied alot of ballistics wrote that he had seen guys take multiple hits from .38 special, and had heard of guys taking multiple hits from .357 mag, and yet continue to fight for up to two minutes before succumbing to shock or bleeding out. He had never seen nor heard of anyone taking a shot in the upper body with a 12 gauge slug who hadn't gone down "like you turned off a lightswitch". What other close quarters weapon offers such stopping power? Do I even need to go on a rant about 00 buckshot? Lets see, 8mm balls doing 1200 fps, and I get 12 of them for each pull of the trigger, and my Mossberg 500 holds seven in home-defense configuration, so if I have to unload the whole tube on someone at close range I've put no less than EIGHTY-FOUR 8mm holes in him, which I can do in a matter of 5 seconds or so. Anyone want to dispute the stopping power here?
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And a Level IIA soft vest will stop that buckshot cold. A Level III will stop the slug. There was a time when you would have been correct in your assessment of the shotguns use against people. But that time has passed. .223 carbines are far better for personal protection today.
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Damn man!! Who are you shootin at?
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Cops arrest or shoot out with armored suspects about once a month around here.
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 10:25:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BigJ491: There's no substitute for the sound a shotgun makes when it's racked! That's one weapons that speaks all languages.
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Yaaaa got to love that sound, unless you are the BG in my house......
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 10:33:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl: And a Level IIA soft vest will stop that buckshot cold. A Level III will stop the slug. There was a time when you would have been correct in your assessment of the shotguns use against people. But that time has passed. .223 carbines are far better for personal protection today.
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I don't expect a home invader will be wearing body armor. And even if he was, a 1oz slug to the chest - even if stopped by a vest - is the equivalent of being hit by a 2 lb. ball-peen hammer. It [i]will[/i] get his attention. My Mossberg 590 is loaded with a mix of #4 buckshot and slugs. There's no vest in the world that will protect your [i]head or your thighs[/i] from a load of #4 buck. Twenty-seven .25 caliber pellets. You do the math.
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 11:00:19 AM EDT
Yeah no kiddin. The "If ya can only have one" pick of champions... The Shotgun.
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 11:41:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/26/2003 11:41:53 AM EDT by 1shott]
Here is my Shotgun, Rem 870 police magnum... [img]http://fototime.com/300F4F42F35C707/standard.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 11:49:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/26/2003 12:05:16 PM EDT by Slash]
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 11:55:13 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 11:58:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 12:12:23 PM EDT
And a Level IIA soft vest will stop that buckshot cold. A Level III will stop the slug. There was a time when you would have been correct in your assessment of the shotguns use against people. But that time has passed. .223 carbines are far better for personal protection today.
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This is why it is a good idea to aim for the crotch area when using the shotgun.
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 12:44:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 12:52:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BigJ491: There's no substitute for the sound a shotgun makes when it's racked! That's one weapons that speaks all languages.
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YEP! quite intimidating, no mistake you mean business.
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