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Posted: 5/24/2003 8:31:35 PM EDT
I'll be purchasing a gun safe in the near future and have almost made up my mind to get a Ft Knox safe. I'm planning on getting the biggest one we can fit down the stairs as the bigger the better when it comes to toy storage. How good are Ft Knox safe's compared to all the other ones on the market?? Pro's/Cons?????
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 8:45:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/24/2003 8:50:37 PM EDT by piccolo]
IMHO, this whole gun safe thing has been blown totally out of proportion. What you are looking for is something heavy enough so that it can't be carried off by a couple of guys and can't be opened with basic hand tools. There ain't one made that can't be opened with a blue hot wrench(torch) IMHO, if you're hit by pros, kiss it goodbye. Remember, the majority of burglaries are NOT committed by true pros. LEOs may talk about so-called 'professional burglars', but they, for the most part, are just people too damned lazy to get a job. True pros have better things to do than break into your house and swipe your safe, unless they are the type that back a HUGE van up to your house and steal EVERYTHING. If that's the case, no matter what you have for a safe, it's gone. Just my thought. edited to add, I'd be DAMNED CAREFUL about bringing an 800 pound safe down a flight of stairs. If the stairs are normal wooden basemant stairs, they could easily snap and God only knows where the safe will wind up. Maybe on top of you. Beware!
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 9:01:06 PM EDT
Many safes have the option to bolt it into the ground. If you want to do that you could put it in your garage and bolt it into the concrete. If you are afraid of someone using a torch to cut into it, you could always just leave 2 8 pound kegs of gun powder near on of the hinges that they would have to cut through. They would find a nice big explosion waiting for them. Hell if might destroy all your guns but you would have lost them all in the long run. Just dont store anything else valuable near the safe. -WARNING- Flying safe doors will hurt people and valuables.
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 9:56:44 PM EDT
Just put 'um under your pillow, in your dresser, crawl space, in the bathroom under the towls, or even in your recycling bin(wich is in the garage. Shit, it takes me over an hour to collect it all. So anyone who is looking for something to steal, will find it easier to carry off one of my tvs, rather than any weapon I have. But, they will have to kill my dog first, good luck to them. I see no need for a safe. Sorry I have nothing to recomend and wish you luck. Jason wljohns@bright.net
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 10:12:53 PM EDT
I will also say you better think about the safes wieght. When I was in HS my woodshop teacher told me a story one time... He built a new custom home for a guy. The guy never mentioned that he was going to put anything special on the upper floor. So when the house was finished and the guy moves in he tryed hauling a large safe up the stairs to the 2nd story. The safe made the stairs collapse. The builder had to come back in and build a new set of reinforced stairs. If I was buing a safe Id get one that was fire rated. Browing safes are rated for I think 30 minutes at 1500F. While getting your guns ripped off buy thugs is a real possibility so is a house fire. And if your house burnt down it wolud be nice to at least have your guns and possibly your important legal documents.
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 10:19:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By rasanders22: Many safes have the option to bolt it into the ground. If you want to do that you could put it in your garage and bolt it into the concrete. [red] If you are afraid of someone using a torch to cut into it, you could always just leave 2 8 pound kegs of gun powder near on of the hinges that they would have to cut through. They would find a nice big explosion waiting for them. Hell if might destroy all your guns but you would have lost them all in the long run. [/red] Just dont store anything else valuable near the safe. -WARNING- Flying safe doors will hurt people and valuables.
View Quote
I like that. Sort of like a reverse "soup job".
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 10:28:52 PM EDT
A true jewelers safe (TRTLx6) will stop even the most determined safe thief, for a while anyway. However, the way I look at it my Class 3 collection if stolen is worth about 1/20th as it is papered, so hypothetically a quarter of a million dollar target suddenly becomes a $10,000 haul. Not enough for a pro to come after, especially when you consider the jail time for stealing MGs and the amount of weight and volume he now has to carry off. Much easier to hit a real jewelery store.
Link Posted: 5/24/2003 11:51:44 PM EDT
Sorry, no input on FT.KNOX safes but I would think they would be ALOT better than nothing. But on the direction of this thread, does anybody know is there a TYPICAL amount of time the typical burglar "searches" the house? I've always wondered the advantages of hiding stuff everywhere (Leaving audio and camcorders etc. in plain site) thinking the burglar would be in a grab and get the hell out of here mindset. Assuming anyone who wants to take the risk of breaking into my house is not a "professional". There have been alot of burglaries in my area lately so I've decided to do whatever I can to come home to what is mine.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 12:31:33 AM EDT
I have a Ft knox that was purchased in 1981 by my father. Not a thing wrong with it, other than the 1980's era BROWN paint color. Ive been thinking about taking it down to autobody shop and getting it re-painted to a more modern, house fitting color.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 12:32:31 AM EDT
610, Maybe the LEO's will know, but I doubt there have been many surveys done of burglars about their habits. The people who'd really know are the people committing the burglaries. My house has been done over twice, both times just small, light stuff was taken (cameras, CD's, portable stuff). My understanding (based on talking to police after both times) is that this is typical, the thieves just want to get in and out as fast as possible and will go for the easily removable/easily sellable stuff first. Shrike, A word of advice. If you're putting the safe somewhere where you keep items like tools (basement/garage), keep the tools locked away when you don't need them as well. No need to put them in the safe, just somewhere out of plain site and difficult to get their hands on. To a thief, tools you leave lying around are equipment they can use to try to open your safe with. Even if the thief can't get into the safe, you may end up with a bunch of ruined tools after they've used them on the safe. Keeping the tools somewhere out of sight can also stop a thief from stealing your tools.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 6:12:54 AM EDT
I bought 6 shotguns and rifles for 25 bucks each at a pawn shop. They all are "junk" non firing, but look good. Create a Diversion from your goodies Six is about all one can thief can carry.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 7:03:25 AM EDT
My #1 concern is fire protection and #2 is theft protection. The upgraded fire protection door raises the safe to 1680° for 90 minutes. This wat if the house burns down the safe & it's contents will survive. I've seen several pistols & rifles that have gone thru house/car/barn fires & the really hot fires had made them all but unrecognizable.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 7:54:30 AM EDT
My brother did some research on safes available at the time when we had our shop(early '90's) and bought a Fort Knox safe to store our inventory. He liked it so much he also got one for his home. The safe is one of the finest I've seen but pricey. With the fire protection upgrade it will do what you require it to do, I think the contents will not go above 350̊ for a ceretain amount of time while exposed to a fire. That may melt some plastic parts, I'm not sure how long they can stand up to that temp, but it won't toast the weapon completely.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 9:41:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/25/2003 9:47:07 AM EDT by Am-O-Tramp]
I wanted a a Fort Knox but the closest dealer was over 200 miles away...so I opted for a Heritage Safe. I must say I am completely satisfied with it. Heritage claims to have the best warranty in the business. [url]http://www.heritagesafe.com/warranty.html[/url] [url]www.heritagesafe.com[/url]
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 9:43:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/25/2003 9:46:38 AM EDT by Andreuha]
If you'r planning on spending so much on a safe, why not just build a vault? A good vault-door (fire rated, bla bla) will run about $2000, and you can have a small room covered in layered ceramic and metal. That shouldnt cost more than $2000 either. Hell, or just put it all behind a locked door and install an alarm system to notify police if someone tries to get NEAR your safe. Edit: Am-O-Tramp, They guarantee the safe only against forced entry... Not whats inside the safe :) What good's a replacement safe if you've got nothing left to store in it?
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 10:23:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/25/2003 10:26:33 AM EDT by BusMaster007]
FORT KNOX = GOOD. [url] http://www.ftknox.com/ [/url] Take a look at the largest size DEFENDER series. #7241. [url] http://www.ftknox.com/safes/Defender.asp [/url] Great deal. Glad to see you're opting for a good safe.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 10:33:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/25/2003 10:56:20 AM EDT by Am-O-Tramp]
Andreuha, I called Heritage and talked to them about their safes before I bought mine. They told me in all the years they have been in business no one has ever gained entry into one of their safes that has been attacked. I like your vault idea but for someone to get the absolute safest system you are describing they would have to build one using reinforced concrete walls, ceiling and a stainless steel door. A lot of people live in rented apartments or homes making such a project not practicle. Then there are the types like me, who are lazy and not wanting to undergo such a dirty, hard, and time consuming project. I choose to believe my safe, dogs and 220 Volts AC going to a dummy gun in the front row will effectively do the job. [:D] hehehe
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 10:48:35 AM EDT
[url]http://www.championsafe.com/[/url] I have the Crown 50. Its awesome and about a GRAND less than Fort Knox. IMHO Good luck BUY BIG. PG
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 4:56:11 PM EDT
I have a ft knox defender with fire prot. It would take a while to get it out of the closet it is in and then out the door. I am very happy with it. TXL
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 6:57:52 PM EDT
I've always contended that the less expensive safes (and I mean safes, not lockers) are about 75% as good as the top dollar models. I based that on examining my Sportsmans Steel Safe in comparison with several expensive models. The high buck models have better, more secure locking systems and nicer paint but aren't that much better than a cheaper one of comparable size/weight. Realisticly, the common burglar with his screwdriver/crowbar or whatever isn't going to be able to open any safe. A real pro will get into any gun safe if he has the time to work on it. Bottom line is that you should get a safe, the best/biggest you can afford. Don't tell anyone you have it and place it out of sight of casual visitors. The piece of mind is worth the money. Don in Ohio
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 9:15:40 PM EDT
IMHO, Fort Knox (and Liberty) safes are just about the best out there. However, they are priced accordingly. You have to look at the features you get for that extra money they cost. This can sometime includes obvious things like the number of bolts. It also sometimes includes not so obvious features like – say - better relockers or drill plates with embedded ball bearings. Do you feel these features are likely to benefit you? Also, the extra money can involve simply convenience features. For example, my Fort Knox has a screw that allows me to adjust the door closure so that there is no wiggle at all when the door is locked. Some cheaper safes simply have a welded steel tab that must be adjusted trial-and-error with a hammer to accomplish this. As a practical matter, I’m not sure most folks (including myself) really need the nice features that come with a Fort Knox. In most burglaries, just about any decent safe will work. However, I’d stay away from super cheap safes. They are going to look good on the outside, but probably will be missing basic, but hidden, security features like drill deflection plates or such. I wouldn’t even consider a safe that doesn’t have a UL Residential Security Container rating. Two other things: First, get the thickest steel that you can. I believe its pretty well known nowadays that thinner safes can be easily gotten into with certain common electric tools. Second, make sure the thing is much too heavy to move and/or is securely anchored. If the bad guys can get the safe into a vehicle, they can later open it at their leisure. Just my own opinions, of course.
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