Please take the time to read the information here:

[url=www.talion.com/georgebush.html]George W. Bush Military Record — and Misrepresentations Pertaining to Military Records[/url]

Does this change your support if the allegations are true?

No.

nope.  

Who cares?

[rolleyes]

The 17 months that he was awol bug the heck out of me.
The 5 deferments that the VP got do not help.
Don't get me started on Wolfowitz of Arabia.

Here we go again....

[banghead]

Dirk

[BS]

That is truly an unbiased site.  Yeah, right...  [:\]


FROM IMBROGLIO's SITE:
[b][red]

"Presidential calibre military men"
[/b][/red]


[img]http://www.talion.com/kerry-military.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.talion.com/gore-military.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.talion.com/carter.jpg[/img]

Let's see.  An ultra left-wing website that makes excuses for Bill Clinton.  You call it 'information'.  Bullshit.  Real believable.  And that's all they are, allegations by fucking DEMOCRATS.  You must be hanging out a DU these days.

Look, Imbrog, we all know that you hate Bush and love "We deserved Sept 11" Harry Browne, so fuck off with your DU troll bullshit.  You seem to hate him so much that you are now siding with the DEMONRATS.  You would go to any length to try to discredit the man including siding with those treasonous assholes and cowards.

I have libertarian ideals, but you and your Libertarian party are full of shit.

This is from someone who did serve back then and him being in the Guard is perfectly acceptable, a lot more so than what your apparent new hero, Slick Willy, did.

This site even praises Jimmy Carter.  Yeah, a real hero he is.  Apparently, these assholes did not learn a damn thing during their military service, with all their gun-grabbing bullshit and socialist ideals.

No.  

No.  [BS2]

Does not change my view. I like W. So he screwed around. So did a lot of pilots in the military. One of the best, Pappy Boyington,(an admitted alcoholic), said, "Show me a hero, and I'll show you a bum." How can you argue with a guy that had a CMH.

... Nope

Al Gore:
Elected President 2000.

WTF is that....Are they ever going to get over the fact that AL GORE LOST!!!!!

That may be the most RIDICULES artical I have ever read!

DU comes to ARFCOM

It's very ironic that the anarcho-libertarians in their zeal to bash Bush have joined forces with those most opposed to their ideals: the liberal Democrats.  The snake has swallowed its own tail...and Imbroglio is dessert.

Imbroglio, do us all a favor and go play in traffic. [rolleyes]

That site is funny, in it's ignorance of the military, and utter lack of humor.

Note this:


The writer is so blinded by hatred, that he missed the joke.  It's obvious that GWB was being funny.

The writer then proves his ignorance later....


Not true.
Officers in the reserves are serving in a strictly volunteer status.  You can literally call up your CO and say, "I've found a job elsewhere, I can't drill anymore".
Enlisted members cannot do this.  

[img]http://www.talion.com/carter.jpg[/img]

Carter was a nuclear submariner. Why the photo of him in an aircraft? Sex appeal?



He didn't don the uniform because a) everyone would have known it was a 100% pure BS political stunt, b) because he held (and still holds) anyone in uniform in complete contempt, and c) because the only prowess he could show about his young adulthood was his protesting his country in the heart of his country's biggest enemy at the time.

[img]http://www.talion.com/kerry-military.jpg[/img][img]http://www.talion.com/gore-military.jpg[/img]

So John "I can't decide how to write my name, but I want to be President" Kerry served in the Navy? So what? Does that exonerate him from all the damage he and his Liberal politics have done to this country?

...and as for Al Gore, I don't consider being a photographer in "combat" (20 miles behind the lines with a bodyguard) all that big a deal. Seems to me a fighter pilot (National Guard, Active, Reserve, Civilian) is still more dangerous.

So to answer the original stupid question, NO, it doesn't change my opinion one bit.

So, Imbroglio, are you now advocating we vote for a Gore/Kerrey ticket with Jimmy Carter as SecDef or SecState?

No.

In case you haven't noticed, Imbroglio does not now, nor has he ever "advocated" anything.
He supports nothing, and stands for nothing.
Just bitching and whining and nit-picking.
Never a suggestion, never a solution, just complaints.

That is EXACTLY right. I know because that is PRECISELY what I did.



Amen, brother. Well said...

Isn't it funny how the Liberals have gone from saying, "Hey, being a draft-dodging, dope-smoking, in-an-enemy-forgein-country-protester-against-America is not a problem if the guy wants to be President" to "Look at all the military guys we got!"?

Those people are pathetic. It's truly laughable. The fact that now the Libertarians seem to be jumping aboard convinces me once and for all that the term "Lib" really DOES mean the enemy of all I believe in and stand for.

If there are Libertarians out there who know this NOT to be true, I suggest you sound off ASAP. Your man Imbroglio is making you all look like asses.

Yes, I have noticed that.

What a sad, sordid existence he must lead...

It's a one trick show.



Ladies and Gentlemen, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat.  TA-DA!!!!!

Ladies and Gentlemen, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat.  TA-DA!!!!!

Ladies and Gentlemen, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat.  TA-DA!!!!!

Ladies and Gentlemen, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat.  TA-DA!!!!!

Ladies and Gentlemen, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat.  TA-DA!!!!!

Ladies and Gentlemen, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat.  TA-DA!!!!!

Ladies and Gentlemen, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat.  TA-DA!!!!!

Ladies and Gentlemen, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat.  TA-DA!!!!!




back to my original statement:

Imbrolio goes over the top sometimes, but I get a kick out of his posts.

The problem with some of you other people is you want to see everything in black and white.  The old, "If you're not with us, you're against us" crap.

I and many other libertarians see just as much hypocricy coming from the GOP as I see from the democrats.  George Bush supporting the AWB, for example.  Or the fact that he is increasing the federal budget more than Clinton ever did, yet the GOP people stand up and say the republicans support "smaller government."  Or saying that the GOP is closer to the founder's ideals, but that's only when it's convenient for them.  When was the last time you heard a Republican OR democrat cite the 9th or 10th ammendments?  Or jumping all over slick Willy's shit for smoking a few joints in his younger days but overlooking Bush's cocaine use and alcoholism.

So alot of you people are trying to make Imbrolio out to be some sort of DU troll.  Fact is, I bet he has just as much nasty shit to say about the democrats.  But this board is populated mostly by Republican apologists who will stand behind the republican party no matter how hard the republicans try to anally rape us.  And I think that is what Imbrolio is trying to do--to get people to look at the issues beyond a simple "Is it republican or democrat" mindset.

John Ross ran for state senate in Missouri as a democrat.  I wouldn't be surprised if a large portion of you would refuse to vote for him because he was John Ross (D) instead of John Ross (R).

As for me, I'll just sit back and enjoy Imbrolio's posts and chuckle when I see the hissy fits getting thrown.

-Nick Viejo.

PS, Although I'm a libertarian, I think the Libertarian party is staffed by a bunch of armchair philosopher losers who couldn't campaign their way out of a wet paper bag.

One factual error there:  Al Gore was never, not once leading in the vote counting.

Observation:  Why couldn't Al, as seen in the photograph, exhibit trigger discipline to match his muzzle discipline?  The world could have been spared alot of wasted air.  IMHO.

Some people get a kick out of watching Mexican women have sex with donkeys.  There's no accounting for taste.



No, sorry, that's not the situation at all.  The fact is, if you're collaborating with those who are against us, you're not with us.  It's that simple.



No, the person doing the most to make Imbroglio look like a DU troll is Imbroglio.

Why has the federal budget increased?  Perhaps because the United States was attacked early in the Bush presidency and most of his time in office has been spent responding to that attack, dealing with the effects of that attack and attempting to discourage further attacks.   Bush isn’t perfect, but many of us are very thankful he was at the helm and not Clinton or Gore when this country was struck.



I’ve not seen many on this board jump on Clinton for smoking weed.  Instead most have taken issue with him over his personal contempt and the contempt of his administration for those in the military.

I don’t think we are all in love with the Republican Party but we sure as hell don’t like the Democrats and their policies of appeasement.  You are critical of people here for supporting the Republicans but have you provided an alternative?  



That pretty well sums up the alternatives doesn't it?

No, as I didn't (nor do I now) support him politically.

See [url]http://www.hobbsonline.blogspot.com/2003_05_01_hobbsonline_archive.html#94067870[/url] for a discussion of the topic.

Bush was regarded as a pretty good pilot. And if he wanted to avoid getting killed, he could have gotten a job turning wrenches on the ground instead of strapping on a supersonic jet. In fact, two pilots from his squadron were killed on duty.

Imbroglio ,never mind ,you're just not worth any effort ,PERIOD!

It says a great deal about the character of those who make these sorts of allegations.  

GunLvr

I respectfully disagree. It seems that the ones who are always demanding perfection in policies and politicians on this board are the Libertarians. Need proof? See how many Libertarians on this board are willing to allow a Democrat win the White House rather than vote for GWB if he signs an extension to the existing AWB.



I rest my case, which isn't to say the Republicans are angels, either. As politicians, they are still the lesser of two evils, no matter how on our side they may be.



Please see RikWriter's response to this point.



Oh, yeah. WE see things as black and white, eh?



That's fine, but don't you think you'd win more people over by calmly and logically explaining your positions rather than sniping just to piss them off?



You're probably right, and while I'd love to see the Republican party move further right (i.e. - more Libertarian) the fact is that if the Libertarian party managed to get its shit together we'd simply be guaranteeing the dominance of the Left, because as much as we'd like to see it, the Greens party isn't going to split the Democratic vote anywhere near the way the Libertarian vote would split Republicans.

Remember, Republicans and Libertarians have FAR MORE in common than they do differences.

BTW, I should add that my post should not be interpreted as a flame against you. What pisses me off about Imbroglio is that all he does is whine. No ideas, no solutions, no suggestions. It's not attractive or persuasive.

I admire you for at least having the balls to present a cojent if, in my opinion, flawed argument.

Hell, Liberty86, who I consider a borderline kook, at least tries to present his arguments in a thoughtful manner, and has at least made me think about a few things. He may even win me over on a few of them! [:O]

At least I know your positions, your ideas, your visions. I can respect that, and I respect the goals your trying to reach. I can't respect or take seriously someone who seems to enjoy stirring the pot just to see the aftermath.

Okay, I'll get off the soapbox, now. NEXT!

Doggonit!  There's nothing "borderline" about good old Liberty86.  He's way past that.[:D]

As opposed to the all inclusive, everything-is-gray, there-is-no-right-or-wrong philosophy of the Libertarian Party???

[b]"The lesser of two evils is still evil but the Libertarian Party is good"[/b]

Pretty black and white sounding to me. [rolleyes]





Well to paraphrase a well-known member here, if you took your horseblinders and rose-colored glasses off you'd see even MORE hypocrisy and idiocy coming from the Libertarian Party.






Hey look everybody - there goes Nick's credibility!!!

[img]http://members.cox.net/the-macallan/MacsPics3/SHOTDOWN.jpg[/img]


[i]{nudge-nudge}[/i][:D]

 Regardless of the merits/ lack of in Imbroglio's link, the most illuminating comments are indicative of a lack of principles and political philosophy by respondents.
 This 'curse of the DU' is truly pathetic. If some internet site embodies the limitations of your political conciousness/experience, you should really get out more! Maybe you never took any poli-sci courses but what keeps you from reading and getting some depth to one's political perceptions? DU is infantile-and so is using it as some kinda benchmark.
 The same 'type' limitation is evident in the 'lesser of 2 evils' capitulation. Why accept some arbitrary 'restriction' based on lack of comprehension?
 Bottom line seems to be the 'cult of personality' hoorah as a basis for political judgements[?!]. Why quibble about shades of 'evil' between klintoonie, alwhore or wussya-they're ALL simply votewhores [suck for votes]. No wonder republicraps are defensive-there's no principle involved. If you aren't gonna stand for something I guess you can accept anything.
 Besides being a proven POS, klintoonie told US all that we had 'too much individual freedom' on national teebee which made him a traitor to his oath of office as far as I was concerned-don't expect much better from a democrap. Then wussya SAYS he's a Constitutional supporter-including the 2nd Amend.-but says he'll support all current 'gun laws'-a flat repudiation of his own prior utterance! Course, now we've got der stalin act and faderland security to put the lie to his votewhore posturing. Who needs to quibble about his weaseling on the AWB? He's simply a NWO fascist clone just as he always appeared-no surprise there.
 Regardless of wussyas performance[lack of] during his NG dodge , BOTH he and klintoonie got all froggy once THEY were above being cannon-fodder and could SEND better men than themselves to 'fight' all over the planet for nebulous political machinations and enhanced face-time on teebee. What's the difference? How[why?] does anyone get their thongs all in a wad about either-they're votewhores. It's disgusting that the amerikan voter is so morally bankrupt and dumbed down that such smirking arrogant condom-escapees can even 'run', much less get elected.
 The last great hope of smaller, less intrusive govt. may well be alsharpton-the -welfare-whore-he's such an obvious extortionist maybe even republicraps would rebel:-)[being facetious for carpetbaggers]! Molon Labe! Ghost

Originally Posted By RBAD
[img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=12528[/img]
[red][size=6]BANG[/size=6][/red] [size=1]i wish[/size=1]

To answer the question...

NO!

Put up a poll.

IOW "they don't agree with me so they're bad! Bad! Bad!  Whaaaaaaaahhhh...I want my mommy!"

You went to a public school, didn't you? Either that or your parents wasted their money....

Learn how to write and spell. It'll make your posts easier to read and understand, and will help your credibility in a major way.

As for what you wrote......well, I'm still trying to figure it out without getting a headache.

Damn, LARRYG. Your even from Jimmy Carter's neck of the woods and you hate him.

[pound]

Probably not.  But that is one messed up military record.    

Yep, he's an asswipe no matter where he's from.

How pompous.

Anyone esle notice how leftists like to spout words like 'fascist' and 'amerikan' with a 'k'.

Got any real facts to back up this bullshit diatribe?  I'm not a Repub and I have libertarian ideals, but the more I hear from self-proclaimed Libertarians, the more they sould like Demonrats.

So you've taken a bunch of Political Sci huh, suppose the writing classes were all filled up?  Frankly, I read your first two sentences and thought you might have some good points, but I was wrong.

[img]http://store1.yimg.com/I/animalden_1742_3255072[/img]

Of course not. The Christian Right continue to support George W Bush even after he's signed Patriot Act, Homeland Security Act, Compaign Finance Reform Act, Total Information Awareness, etc.
And they will continue to support him after he signs Patriot Act II/III/IV, a total AW ban and what other anti-gun and anti-freedom legislation gets sent to him. There are a lot of stupid people in this country and half of them are "conservatives".

Seems like most I run into here are libertarians.  But that's probably a bad sample.