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Posted: 5/22/2003 4:36:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/23/2003 3:54:52 AM EDT by FRIZ]
I want to add an M1 Garand in 308 to my collection. Dean's Gun Restorations http://www.dgrguns.com/index.html and Orion 7 Enterprises Inc. http://www.m1garandrifle.com/ seem to be a bit pricey. I’m considering Tony Giacobbe http://www.garandguy.com/ his prices are more reasonable. Now the question is, does he produce a quality product? What is your experience with M1 Garand from Tony Giacobbe? Thank you for your detailed response. Regards, FRIZ
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 4:44:52 PM EDT
You can also buy a rack grade Garand and have someone like Dean spruce it up. I've had him do 2 Garands for me, and was very impressed with his work. I can't speak for the other 2 guys but I can definitely give Dean an emphatic thumbs-up.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 4:48:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2003 5:21:15 PM EDT by Ohio]
I would be concerned about anyone only because he does not list the make of the receivers he uses; they could well be (and probably are) the icky (poor quality) commercial receivers or re-welds. Did you consider Fulton Armory? They are in the Industry section; ask Walt about what they can do for you.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 4:59:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2003 5:02:46 PM EDT by Ohio]
Originally Posted By Morpheus:
Originally Posted By Ohio: I would be concerned -snip- does not list the make of the receivers -snip-. Did you consider Fulton Armory? They are in the Industry section; ask Walt about what they can do for you.
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I would NOT be concerned about that with Tony Giacobbe. I purchased a rebuilt Garand from him over a year ago and was very pleased with the rifle. Perhaps he does not specify an IHC vs. SA vs. WRA vs. HRA, but when I ordered from him I had my choice.
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If he uses USGI he really ought to specify that; it is important (as you would agree) in this particular application. If he uses USGI I would be interested in knowing how he can afford to sell his re-builds so inexpensively. I will edit my post, I would suggest you do also; If he truly offers only USGI then my reservation is answered. Just to clarify: You bought an $895 rifle from him and had choice of USGI receivers?
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 5:08:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2003 5:23:11 PM EDT by Morpheus]
I f'ed up. Check out this other website: Battle grade. A fully functionable and serviceable genuine Springfield Armory U.S.G.I. rifle. These rifles have nice sharp bright serviceable bores, original G.I. walnut stock and handguards, and have been fully inspected, test fired, and targeted for accuracy and reliability. All metal is good original U.S.G.I. finish and the wood shows honest wear with typical small dings and handling marks. Complete with sling, clips, and training manual. A sound, reliable, U.S.G.I. rifle at an affordable price! [b]These rifles have genuine U.S.G.I. receivers (not foreign, commercial, or made up from "welded" halves).[/b] We test fire each and every one to assure you a quality rifle. Available in original 30-06 caliber only. A great value at $899.95 Sale $799.95 [url]http://www.m1garand.com/Garandrifles.htm[/url] [edited to make link hot]
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 5:12:04 PM EDT
Why not go the DCM route and have it rebarreled?
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 5:13:25 PM EDT
It looks like if you want it in .308 you need to move up to the Select Grade: Select grade. One of our most popular rifles! Rebuilt with first quality U.S.G.I. parts and original U.S.G.I. receivers. All metal is skillfully refinished in mil-spec WWII Grey-green parkerizing. New commercial walnut stock and handguards. New match quality premium standard-contour Wilson barrel available in 30-06 or popular 308 Win ( add $25.00 ). These Garands shoot as good as they look. A solid, well-built rifle with the serious shooter in mind. These rifles are as close to un-issued as they get. Guaranteed under 2.5 M.O.A. (conservative ). Complete with sling, clips, and training manual. Perfect for individuals wanting to start high power service rifle competition. A quality M1 rifle built by Orion. $1299.95 Sale $1149.95
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 5:15:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2003 5:40:09 PM EDT by Ohio]
I am afraid that we aren't talking about the same company. Tony is Tony Giacobbe http://www.garandguy.com You are talking about Orion7 at http://www.m1garandrifle.com/. Anthony [b]Pucci[/b] has a great reputation, well deeserved, and is a quality guy making quality rifles. Tony Giacobbe is an unknown using unknown receivers. Larry (edited to be less of a jerk)
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 5:19:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2003 5:23:49 PM EDT by Morpheus]
You're right, sorry. I will go flog myself now. I got my Italian-surnamed Garand guys mixed up. Still, it's not nice to guess about these things when a guy's reputation is at stake. It was nice of you to edit your original post. I will do the same.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 5:31:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 5:34:29 PM EDT
FWIW Smith Enterprises makes them too. He has a reputation. Some say it's good. A few would disagree. I've never seen his work or done buisness with him.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 5:42:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer: [url]www.odcmp.com[/url] Only place to get a real garand.
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I got mine; I wish they had 7.62x51 (not .308) for the same prices! Larry
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 5:42:57 PM EDT
Might want to check at this forum, lots of great Garand info there - http://www.battlerifles.com/
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 5:43:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer: [url]www.odcmp.com[/url] Only place to get a real garand.
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exactly, and if you want to get it rebarreled in .308, get a rack grade and send it to one of the people you mentioned and get it rebarreled, as marvl said. Dean would probably be my first choice with Orion7 following a close second. BTW, the definitive place for M1 rifle info on the internet is the garand forum on jouster.com: [url]http://www.jouster.com/cgi-bin/garand/garand.pl?[/url] there are people there who have forgotten much more than I know about M1s and they are very helpful.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 5:47:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Morpheus: It looks like if you want it in .308 you need to move up to the Select Grade: Select grade. One of our most popular rifles! Rebuilt with first quality U.S.G.I. parts and original U.S.G.I. receivers. All metal is skillfully refinished in mil-spec WWII Grey-green parkerizing. New commercial walnut stock and handguards. New match quality premium standard-contour Wilson barrel available in 30-06 or popular 308 Win ( add $25.00 ). These Garands shoot as good as they look. A solid, well-built rifle with the serious shooter in mind. These rifles are as close to un-issued as they get. Guaranteed under 2.5 M.O.A. (conservative ). Complete with sling, clips, and training manual. Perfect for individuals wanting to start high power service rifle competition. A quality M1 rifle built by Orion. $1299.95 Sale $1149.95
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Fulton comes in at 1099.95 for the .308, a (very) little cheaper with the same 2.5 MOA gaurantee.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 6:16:38 PM EDT
Tony Giacobbe http://www.garandguy.com/ just got back to me and confirmed that everything (except the barrel & stock) is USGI. Most receivers are Springfield’s from 1943/44/45.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 6:17:26 PM EDT
I had one of my Garands rebarreled into .308 at Champions's Choice. Can't remember how much it cost (very reasonable), can't remember what type of barrel they put on it (all my guns are out at my sister and her husbands place, who are both State Cops), can't remember how long it took for them to do the job, but, the guns shoots great, very accurate. I'll send another one to them once I get thru with this fu$$%$% divorce which is making me forget everything I've ever known. vmax84
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 6:49:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FRIZ: I want to add an M1 Garand in 308 to my collection.
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Blasphemy. A Garand is .30-06, or it's not a Garand.[:D]
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 7:15:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LARRYG:
Originally Posted By FRIZ: I want to add an M1 Garand in 308 to my collection.
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Blasphemy. A Garand is .30-06, or it's not a Garand.[:D]
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Well put, a Garand is only a Garand when chambered in .30-06.......however, when one figures the cost difference between .30-06 ammo vs. .308, I would gather you could overlook this small detail!!!! vmax84
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 7:44:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LARRYG:
Originally Posted By FRIZ: I want to add an M1 Garand in 308 to my collection.
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Blasphemy. A Garand is .30-06, or it's not a Garand.[:D]
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A-fricken-men. Bastardizing a Garand should be a national crime. At the very least, it a national tragedy.
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 3:11:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By vmax84:
Originally Posted By LARRYG:
Originally Posted By FRIZ: I want to add an M1 Garand in 308 to my collection.
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Blasphemy. A Garand is .30-06, or it's not a Garand.[:D]
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Well put, a Garand is only a Garand when chambered in .30-06.......however, when one figures the cost difference between .30-06 ammo vs. .308, I would gather you could overlook this small detail!!!! vmax84
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Cost is not a concern. A Garand is .30-06. If you want to shoot .308, get another gun, don't cause a Garand to cease to be a Garand.
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 3:32:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LARRYG:
Originally Posted By vmax84:
Originally Posted By LARRYG:
Originally Posted By FRIZ: I want to add an M1 Garand in 308 to my collection.
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Blasphemy. A Garand is .30-06, or it's not a Garand.[:D]
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Well put, a Garand is only a Garand when chambered in .30-06.......however, when one figures the cost difference between .30-06 ammo vs. .308, I would gather you could overlook this small detail!!!! vmax84
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Cost is not a concern. A Garand is .30-06. If you want to shoot .308, get another gun, don't cause a Garand to cease to be a Garand.
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[rolleyes] what a pile of crap. The original cartridge for the M1 is .276, not .30-06 and in the as designed configuration would hold 10 rounds. An M1 in .308 is a very nice rifle to shoot and is potentially more accurate. Btw, I bet none of you would pass up a Navy Trophy Garand in .308. That's right, the U.S. Navy converted many garands to .308(7.62 Nato actually) for service use and as awards and I would really like to have one.
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 3:45:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 12:29:41 PM EDT
The Champion's Choice barrels are top notch. They are turned and bored by Gene Barnett from Douglas Premium grade blanks. They are installed by another smith under contract with Champion's Choice and I have yet to hear a complaint. About the only reservations I would have with them is that they are a medium-heavy match contour requiring modification of the rear handguard, and are blued rather than parkerized. It's a matte black blueing, but it's blueing and thus provides no rust resistance. The 7.62 NATO cartridge was a natural evolutionary step from the .30-06 US cartridge. It provides the same power as the service cartridge in a smaller package. Because of the shorter powder column, it also provides more consistent ignition and burning and thus more consistent pressure which leads to more consistent bullet flight and impact. Thus, 7.62 NATO and .308 Win chambered M1's are generally capable of greater accuracy than .30 caliber models. Also, it should be noted that the M1 really isn't a .30-06. It's designed for a fairly specific range of .30-06 loads with medium burning powders like 4895. Most modern .30-06 loads will eventually bend the op rod of the rifle requiring rebending to proper contour or replacement with another op rod (a cost of around 100.00 give or take). So basically, to get full life out of your M1, you need to feed it ammo that closely approximates the m1 and m2 ball and AP cartridges that it was designed for. That ammo is drying up. There basically is no USGI M2 ball left, the Danish M2 is drying up, and the Korean and Greek ammo being surplussed out now ain't all that reliable in quality. PMC still loads a USGI M2 ball spec round, and Federal is loading something fairly close (maybe a touch hot). But all those commercial options are pricey compared to USGI surplus 7.62mm NATO. And what makes a Garand and Garand is the fact that John Cantius Garand designed it, designed the process to build it, and the tooling to build it. Changing it's caliber takes nothing away from it. Saying that converting an M1 to 7.62 or .308 makes it "not a Garand" is like saying burning unleaded gas in a Chevelle Super Sport turns it into a Chevette, and even that's not apropo since burning unleaded in a Chevelle SS will tend to lower it's potential performance where a 7.62 NATO or .308 Garand is generally a performance improvement.
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 12:50:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By icemanat95: Also, it should be noted that the M1 really isn't a .30-06. It's designed for a fairly specific range of .30-06 loads with medium burning powders like 4895. Most modern .30-06 loads will eventually bend the op rod of the rifle requiring rebending to proper contour or replacement with another op rod (a cost of around 100.00 give or take). So basically, to get full life out of your M1, you need to feed it ammo that closely approximates the m1 and m2 ball and AP cartridges that it was designed for. That ammo is drying up. There basically is no USGI M2 ball left, the Danish M2 is drying up, and the Korean and Greek ammo being surplussed out now ain't all that reliable in quality. PMC still loads a USGI M2 ball spec round, and Federal is loading something fairly close (maybe a touch hot). But all those commercial options are pricey compared to USGI surplus 7.62mm NATO.
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And will surplus .308 harm a converted Garand? Do the loads match what the Garand requires? Not trying to be a [;D], I'm curious about this.
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 1:06:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 1:16:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 7:37:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cduarte:
Originally Posted By LARRYG:
Originally Posted By vmax84:
Originally Posted By LARRYG:
Originally Posted By FRIZ: I want to add an M1 Garand in 308 to my collection.
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Blasphemy. A Garand is .30-06, or it's not a Garand.[:D]
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Well put, a Garand is only a Garand when chambered in .30-06.......however, when one figures the cost difference between .30-06 ammo vs. .308, I would gather you could overlook this small detail!!!! vmax84
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Cost is not a concern. A Garand is .30-06. If you want to shoot .308, get another gun, don't cause a Garand to cease to be a Garand.
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[rolleyes] what a pile of crap. The original cartridge for the M1 is .276, not .30-06 and in the as designed configuration would hold 10 rounds. An M1 in .308 is a very nice rifle to shoot and is potentially more accurate. Btw, I bet none of you would pass up a Navy Trophy Garand in .308. That's right, the U.S. Navy converted many garands to .308(7.62 Nato actually) for service use and as awards and I would really like to have one.
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No, what you say is a pile of crap. It does not matter what calibers were tinkered with during the design phases. It saw service as a .30-06, not .276. Yes, I would pass up a Navy Trophy rifle (not a Garand for reasons mentioned). None of what you say matters. A Garand is .30-06, period. Bastardizing it in another caliber is just that, bastardizing.
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 7:48:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LARRYG: A Garand is .30-06, period. Bastardizing it in another caliber is just that, bastardizing.
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KInda like a 1911 in 32 ACP. Please. Rookies.
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 7:54:49 PM EDT
Gentlemen: If you want to have a discussion about calibers why don’t you start your own thread. Please use this thread to answer my questions. Thank you, Regards, FRIZ My questions were: Does Tony Giacobbe produce a quality product? What is your experience with M1 Garand from Tony Giacobbe?
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 7:57:36 PM EDT
Get the rifle from whomever you want. Just get it in .30-06. Else use one of them dammed Century receivers and leave the GARAND receivers for the rest of us who won't desecrate them.
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 8:40:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: Get the rifle from whomever you want. Just get it in .30-06. Else use one of them dammed Century receivers and leave the GARAND receivers for the rest of us who won't desecrate them.
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And I thought that I was a troll...
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 9:57:52 PM EDT
i passed up a real navy garand many moons ago. for 750.00 at a fun show.. man im still kicking myself for that
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 10:33:47 PM EDT
Hell hath no fury like a Garand collector scorned....I learned that one on Culvers' page first hand...One reason I deserted CSP for AR15.com. Humbug. I bought my share of CMP garands and parts kits when they were common and cheap. My favorite Garand is a 100xxx Winchester (collectors be damned!) with a VAR barrel from a parts kit. I swapped out barrels till I got a good shooter. The wood is Danish firewood, but I sweetened it up with French Red and a few coats of BLO. Burn me at the stake, but I am thinking of mating a Garand with a Yugo M48 takeoff barrel to be able to shoot that cheap 8mm ammo. Good barrels, no corrosion.
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