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Posted: 5/22/2003 8:17:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2003 8:18:03 AM EDT by Max_Mike]
Atkins’ dieters lose more and improve lipids over conventional dieters For those of you who keep insisting the Atkins’ diet is a fraud or does not work… open your small, pre-programmed, indoctrinated, pea sized brains and learn something. More evidence… you and the nutrition establishment are full sh*t not Atkins’. [url]http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2003-05/wuso-adl051903.php[/url]
HDL cholesterol (good cholesterol) levels were up 11 percent at one year in the Atkins’ diet group, compared to an increase of only 1.6 percent on the conventional diet. Serum triglycerides declined an average of 17 percent after one year on the Atkins’ diet versus no significant change among conventional dieters. Part of that improvement may result from greater weight loss, but the changes in HDL cholesterol and triglycerides were greater than expected from moderate weight loss alone.
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Link Posted: 5/22/2003 8:22:05 AM EDT
Woo-hoo! I've been on it since last week and it's already begining to work! This is more good news.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 8:58:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Max_Mike: Atkins’ dieters lose more and improve lipids over conventional dieters For those of you who keep insisting the Atkins’ diet is a fraud or does not work… open your small, pre-programmed, indoctrinated, pea sized brains and learn something. More evidence… you and the nutrition establishment are full sh*t not Atkins’. [url]http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2003-05/wuso-adl051903.php[/url]
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Here's some insight from my pea-sized brain for you. (1) After 12 months there was [b]no difference[/b] between the two groups. (2) Because of the [b]ridiculously small sample size[b] - and the confound created by the high attrition rate (50%), there's no statistical power in this study, and the results really do not tell you anything. If I tried to publish a study with this few subjects, the journals I publish in would send me back an audio-tape with the editor and reviewers laughing at me. (Here's a hint: a lot of medical researchers are not trained well in research methodology and sophisticated statistical analysis) (3) As far as I can tell, few to no statistical controls were included in this analysis (and wouldn't have worked if they had been, because they would have soaked up degrees of freedom, further limiting the statistical power). It may very well be that Atkins is a great idea - or it's complete crap. This study really doesn't add much informaiton at all.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 9:26:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2003 9:28:21 AM EDT by SuperAlpha]
I have blood&urine test results from 05/01 when I was on the Atkins diet for several months (lost 50lbs!). The tests were PERFECT. The doctor was surprised. Kidney and liver function were excellent. Then an emotional time in my life (fiance broke up). I gained some weight back and ate tons of carbohydrates. The next years tests (05/02) showed large increases in cholesterol, glucose, and triglycerides (much like the tests from the previous years back to 1996 from when I started keeping track and getting physicals). I have been back on Atkins since April 2003, and my test results (yesterday) were awesome!!!! cholesterol below normal, triglycerides perfect, and glucose levels perfect. Kidney and liver function were excellent. Two perfect test results while I was on Atkins...so we shall see next year. I have copies...
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 9:45:39 AM EDT
woooooooooooooooooohooooooooooooooooooooo! one starving lazy fatass is less unhealthy than another starving lazy fatass! What a breakthrough!
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 10:05:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By norman74: woooooooooooooooooohooooooooooooooooooooo! one starving lazy fatass is less unhealthy than another starving lazy fatass! What a breakthrough!
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I'm not starving, thank you very much.... ...WAIT A MINUTE! [BD]
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 10:22:24 AM EDT
Atkins diet is not fasting. Eat. Eat a lot. It is about insulin and carbohydrates.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 11:03:59 AM EDT
Atkins Diet Bolstered by Two New Studies Wed May 21,10:01 PM ET Add Health - AP to My Yahoo! By JANET McCONNAUGHEY, Associated Press Writer A month after Dr. Robert C. Atkins' death, his much-ridiculed diet has received its most powerful scientific support yet: Two studies in one of medicine's most distinguished journals show it really does help people lose weight faster without raising their cholesterol. The research, in Thursday's New England Journal of Medicine (news - web sites), found that people on the high-protein, high-fat, low-carbohydrate Atkins diet lose twice as much weight over six months as those on the standard low-fat diet recommended by most major health organizations. However, one of the studies found that the Atkins dieters regain much of the weight by the end of one year. Atkins, who died April 17 at age 72 after falling and hitting his head on an icy sidewalk, lived to see several shorter studies that found, to researchers' great surprise, that his diet is effective and healthy in the short run. Although those reports have been presented at medical conferences, none until now has been published in a top-tier journal. And one of the studies in the journal lasted a year, making it the longest one yet. "For the last 20 years that I've been helping people lose weight, I've been trashing the Atkins diet — without any real data to rely on," said Dr. Michael Hamilton, an obesity researcher who was not part of either study. "Now we have some data to give us some guidance." Now, he said, he would neither trash it nor endorse it. "I'm going to say I don't know. The evidence isn't in," he said. One study ran six months and was conducted by the Veterans Affairs Department; the yearlong study was led by Gary D. Foster, who runs the weight-loss program at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine. Atkins' diet books have sold 15 million copies since the first one was published in 1972. From the start, doctors branded the Atkins diet foolish and dangerous, warning that the large amounts of beef and fat would lead to sky-high cholesterol levels. In both studies, the Atkins dieters generally had better levels of "good" cholesterol and triglycerides, or fats in the blood. There was no difference in "bad" cholesterol or blood pressure. Dr. Frederick F. Samaha of the Philadelphia Veterans Affairs Medical Center, who led the VA study, said both studies indicate that people do lose more weight on Atkins, "but the difference is not great." The 132 men and women in the VA study started out weighing an average of 286 pounds. After six months, those on the Atkins diet had lost an average of 12.8 pounds, those on the low-fat diet 4.2. The other study involved 63 participants who weighed an average of 217 pounds at the start. After six months, the Atkins group lost 15.4 pounds, the group on the standard diet 7. But at the end of a year, the Atkins dieters had regained about a third of the weight. Their net loss averaged 9.7 pounds. The low-fat dieters had regained about one-fifth of the weight, for a net loss of 5.5 pounds. The year-end difference was not big enough to tell whether it was caused by the diets, Foster said. About 40 percent of the patients dropped out of each study. And while supporters of the Atkins diet say it is easier to stick with, people on the Atkins regimen were just as likely to drop out as people on the standard diets. The important finding, Foster said, is that the Atkins diet appears to be a healthy short-term way to lose weight. Nobody has studied it long enough to tell whether it is a healthy way to maintain that loss, he said. Collette Heimowitz, director of education and research at Atkins Health and Medical Information Services, said people there were not surprised by the weight loss and improved cholesterol. "But I'm thrilled that serious researchers are taking a hard look at the program, so that health care professionals and physicians would find comfort in offering Atkins as an alternative to the one-size-fits-all hypothesis of low-fat, low-calorie," she said. The studies did not convince Kathleen Zelman, a spokeswoman for the American Dietetic Association. "There's never been any denying that low-carbohydrate, high-protein diets such as Atkins do, absolutely, cause weight loss," she said. "But do they hold up over time and can you stay on them over time?" From Foster's study, it does not look like it, she said.
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To me it looks like A: The diet works B: Sugar is so addictive that people cannot stay on a diet even of good-tasting healty food.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 11:34:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2003 11:34:17 AM EDT by SuperAlpha]
The reason the dieters probably gained their weight back is because they stopped the diet. The diet is supposed to be [b]permanent[/b].
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 11:39:37 AM EDT
I see nobody wants to debate the lazy part, good call.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 11:49:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By norman74: I see nobody wants to debate the lazy part, good call.
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I happen to be lazy when it comes to working, mowing the lawn, etc. What is your definition? I swim laps every day (if there is not storm that is...). I do many outdoor activities like paintball (aggressively). I did this before Atkins, and I still do these things, but now I am losing weight. I have a blood-sugar problem. I have been diagnosed with hypoglycemia, and when my blood-sugar drops, I get cravings (for sugar, carbohydrates) and there is not a damn thing I can do, except to BINGE. On Atkins' diet, I no longer binge. Simple isn't it? Also, with a ketogenic diet, your body will shed the fat for use - and if you do not use it, you pee it away......
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 12:06:26 PM EDT
Unfortunately, the long-term effects on your body organs are not yet known. Atherosclerosis (fatty deposits on your arterial walls) as well as long-term ketotonic renal damage and wearing out of the liver due to increased bile production to digest lipids and an increase in the chances of permanent damage to your gall bladder are all potential problems over the long term. It appears that the best solution to weight issues may just simply be to eat in moderation and exercise more. Fad diets and drastic permanent changes in your diet (which is what Adkins is) will probably, in the long run, increase your risks of many health problems. And I say this as a (budding) medical professional. PS - great for you all that have lost weight. But my suggestion is to now eat a moderate diet that includes all the major food groups and continue to exercise. Don't take the chance of long-term organ damage by staying on this diet for more than 1 year.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 12:20:03 PM EDT
I am slightly hypoglycemic, so natually I need to eat a low sugar diet to keep myself feeling my best. Which basically boils down to the "Atkins" diet, which is nothing new. I'm not going to enter a debate here, you guys can look all this stuff up yourself. The nutrition establishment is so full of horseshit it is almost unbelievable.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 12:22:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SuperAlpha: ...and when my blood-sugar drops, I get cravings (for sugar, carbohydrates) and there is not a damn thing I can do, except to BINGE. On Atkins' diet, I no longer binge.
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Brother, ain't THAT the truth!
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 12:33:03 PM EDT
Another thing - Atkins diet has many stages. While you are losing weight, you can figure out you maximum carbohydrate intake in order to maintain weight. I find 50grams/day is about my maximum, but I WAS >800g/day!!! (easy to do)
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 12:34:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2003 12:37:17 PM EDT by Guess]
The Atkins diet advocates exercise dumbass. It's just like any other diet that advocates exercise along with dieting. Also, the last thing you do is starve on this diet. I'm hardly ever hungry on this diet. You're well informed aren't you?
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 12:34:50 PM EDT
Oh yeah - Atkins said his work was done in the 1940's by some German scientists. I would say that Atkins' diet is proven over the long term. Even if you go back to the 1960's!
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 12:35:20 PM EDT
i did it hard core for a 3 months lost 15 lbs.. and limit the amount of carbs now... kept it off and feel awesome... I guess Im stupid.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 12:39:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2003 12:46:15 PM EDT by SuperAlpha]
Originally Posted By Guess: The Atkins diet advocates exercise dumbass. It's just like any other diet that advocates exercise along with dieting. Also, the last thing you do is starve on this diet. I'm hardly ever hungry on this diet. You're well informed aren't you?
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Atkins said that if you build muscle, it will help burn away the excess ketones and glucose faster and help you maintain weight - isn't that obvious? You don't have to workout to lose the weight, but you don't want to be skin and bones either!
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 12:40:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DoNotTreadOnMe: i did it hard core for a 3 months lost 15 lbs.. and limit the amount of carbs now... kept it off and feel awesome... I guess Im stupid.
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"And you must be a lazy fatass too, according to the above post...." Good job. I lost almost 20lbs since daylight savings in April.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 12:44:47 PM EDT
Oh yeah - and another thing, If I eat carbohydrates and I get the cravings, I would KILL to satisfy the hunger.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 12:44:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Guess: The Atkins diet advocates exercise dumbass. It's just like any other diet that advocates exercise along with dieting. Also, the last thing you do is starve on this diet. I'm hardly ever hungry on this diet. You're well informed aren't you?
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Uh huh, and how many of those lard-asses that are "on the atkins DIET" are actually getting any excercise? Anything that advertises itself as a "diet" is geared towards the lazy, period. Balanced meals and excercise will get you more and better in the long run than any miracle cure.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 1:01:22 PM EDT
1) The Atkins diet has been around for over 30 years. JAMA was pushing Low-Carb diets over 40 years ago. The first Low-Carb diet was published 140 years ago. 2) Since 1965, carbohyrate consumption has increased by about 30%, while fat consumption dropped by almost 25%. At the same time, caloric intake remained pretty much steady. 3) In the second study, the difference in weight loss was 61%...not exactly as "insignificant" as they describe it. 4) On Atkins, you do not stay in Ketosis for very long. You are supposed to do induction for 2 weeks...and within a few months you should be out of ketosis. Ketosis is only used to jumpstart weight loss. You are not expected to be in ketosis for life. In fact, not all Low-carb diets even use ketosis. Protein Power (?) and a few others don't use it at all. 5) Without insulin your body cannot store new fat...including triglycerides and cholesterol. Insulin is only released when you eat alot of carbs, aspartame, or caffeine (Atkins prohibits aspartame and caffeine for this reason). This is why the diet works. 6) Since going on Atkins, I have lost 80 pounds, lost 6/7/8 inches, and lowered my blood pressure from Super High to Normal. 7) Atkins is not a drastic change (FOR LIFE) for most people. If you can handle it (without gaining weight)...Atkins allows you to add back pretty much everything but sugar and white bread. The first things added back (after 2 weeks) are Nuts, Seeds, and Low-carb fruits (Melons and Berries). Once you get close to your goal weight you can add back potatoes, corn, and other starchy foods. You can even have whole grains after you once you lose most of the weight as long as you do so in moderation and make sure not to eat too many carbs (based on your CCLM, which can be anywhere from 30 to 100g or more depending on the person.) 8) Green Vegetables are not only allowed throught the diet, but are emphasized as the main source of the 20g of carbs you should get during the first two weeks. 9) I will stay on Atkins for life. The expand on #7: Whole Grains -- Can be added back once you are close to your ideal weight Vegetables -- Greens allowed throught the diet. Starchy (potaotes and corn) can be added back once you are close to your ideal weight. Fruits -- Added back after the first few weeks. Legumes, Nuts, Seeds, and Meat -- Meat is allowed throughout the diet. Nuts and seeds can be added back after a few weeks. Legumes (other than soybeans which are very low in carbs and used in alot of Low-carb treats which are allowed throughout the diet) can be added back about halfway along. Sweets and Oils -- Oils can be used throughout the diet. Sweets are off-limits for the most part. I use Stevia to make Low-carb sweets. You can buy low-carb sweets made with sucralose or saccharine. Trident Cinnamon gum used to be made with Saccahrine and Xylitol, now they use Sucralose and Xylitol. Both have 1g of carbs (from the Xylitol). But, since Xylitol is not very easily absorbed by the body it isn't counted according to Atkins. I still limit -itols to no more than 18g a day, nonetheless.
Originally Posted By Greywolf2112: Unfortunately, the long-term effects on your body organs are not yet known. Atherosclerosis (fatty deposits on your arterial walls) as well as long-term ketotonic renal damage and wearing out of the liver due to increased bile production to digest lipids and an increase in the chances of permanent damage to your gall bladder are all potential problems over the long term. It appears that the best solution to weight issues may just simply be to eat in moderation and exercise more. Fad diets and drastic permanent changes in your diet (which is what Adkins is) will probably, in the long run, increase your risks of many health problems. And I say this as a (budding) medical professional. PS - great for you all that have lost weight. But my suggestion is to now eat a moderate diet that includes all the major food groups and continue to exercise. Don't take the chance of long-term organ damage by staying on this diet for more than 1 year.
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Link Posted: 5/22/2003 1:02:19 PM EDT
You are obviously not understanding what a diet is. A diet is your personal eating pattern. In the case of Atkins, you make it a permanent part of your life - the reason these people lose weight is because they have a metabolism problem. The new diet corrects the problem - and that is why it works. Here is the definition in case you are TOO FUCKING LAZY to look it up.
from Dictionary.com di·et1 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dt) n. 1. The usual food and drink of a person or animal. 2. A regulated selection of foods, as for medical reasons or cosmetic weight loss. 3. Something used, enjoyed, or provided regularly: subsisted on a diet of detective novels during his vacation.
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Link Posted: 5/22/2003 1:07:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2003 1:08:39 PM EDT by cc48510]
I go to the gym every few weeks. I plan to go more often once I lose the rest of the weight. I exercised quite a bit before and during my intial weight gain (1992-1997). But, I was drinking soda to quench my thirst (from the exercise). I know alot of Atkins dieters who exercise practically everyday.
Originally Posted By norman74:
Originally Posted By Guess: The Atkins diet advocates exercise dumbass. It's just like any other diet that advocates exercise along with dieting. Also, the last thing you do is starve on this diet. I'm hardly ever hungry on this diet. You're well informed aren't you?
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Uh huh, and how many of those lard-asses that are "on the atkins DIET" are actually getting any excercise? Anything that advertises itself as a "diet" is geared towards the lazy, period. Balanced meals and excercise will get you more and better in the long run than any miracle cure.
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Link Posted: 5/22/2003 1:27:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SuperAlpha: Another thing - Atkins diet has many stages. While you are losing weight, you can figure out you maximum carbohydrate intake in order to maintain weight. I find 50grams/day is about my maximum, but I WAS >800g/day!!! (easy to do)
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After I went on Atkins, I wrote down what I ate before then from memory. It wasn't until recently that I added it all up: 4218 calories 21g Fat (5%) 3g Sat. Fat (1%) [b]910g Carbs (86%)[/b] 30g Fiber 90g Protein (9%)
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 1:32:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2003 1:36:52 PM EDT by SuperAlpha]
And you know what the kicker is? When I was >800g carbs / day, I was not eating sugar (desserts, etc), and I was drinking diet drinks. Our bodies have many feedback-control systems. The insulin feedback-control system degrades over time (cells become desensitized). Some people produce too much insulin, in response to carbohydrates (hypoglycemic) and therefore their blood-sugar drops which causes cravings.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 1:35:28 PM EDT
For the last 8 million years of our Hominid existence, our diet has consisted overwhelmingly of vegetable material. This is the optimum diet for our body. The Atkins diet is a complete perversion. Anyone who stuffs mass quantities of meat and dairy into their body and expects to be healthy in the long run is a fool.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 1:38:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2003 1:41:35 PM EDT by SuperAlpha]
I seriously doubt you have this in "writing". Where do you come up with this? The HUNTERS and GATHERERS probably did not come close to 900g/day carbohydrate intake! We can only guess, they probably ate veggies, but they ate meat too! It wasn't until refined sugars that heart disease (triglyceride problems) and obesity came about.
Originally Posted By ump45: For the last 8 million years of our Hominid existence, our diet has consisted overwhelmingly of vegetable material. This is the optimum diet for our body. The Atkins diet is a complete perversion. Anyone who stuffs mass quantities of meat and dairy into their body and expects to be healthy in the long run is a fool.
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Link Posted: 5/22/2003 1:47:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2003 1:48:31 PM EDT by ump45]
The "hunters and gatherers" is relatively recent history, no more than probably 100,000 years ago. I'm talking about the 8 million year history of our Hominid ancestors. They didn't have the ability to make tools, and they didn't hunt animals. They ate a diet that consisted overwhelmingly of vegetable material.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 1:48:17 PM EDT
We are not herbivores. We are onmivores, but being an omnivore, some of us have a problem with out feedback control system regarding carbohydrates. Therefore we rely mainly on the carnivore part of our metabolism. The insulin system will not last forever in every human. It is flawed. The older you get, the lower your ability to process carbohydrates. Think of it as the SUMMER/WINTER diet. In the summer, you pack on the fat when you eat carbohydrates AND fat. In the winter, you eat meat, if you can find it, and your body releases the stored fat for processing.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 1:49:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2003 1:51:29 PM EDT by SuperAlpha]
There is no history. Nothing was written down, except a few pictures. You can see the teeth indicate omnivore. Let's assume you are right on that aspect. What about the refined sugars and absurd levels of carbohydrates in todays diet?
Originally Posted By ump45: The "hunters and gatherers" is relatively recent history, no more than probably 100,000 years ago. I'm talking about the 8 million year history of our Hominid ancestors. They didn't have the ability to make tools, and they didn't hunt animals. They ate a diet that consisted overwhelmingly of vegetable material.
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Link Posted: 5/22/2003 1:54:39 PM EDT
There's the physical anthropology. If you look at our teeth, we're clearly meant for a diet consisting overwhelmingly of vegetable material. If you think your "canine" teeth are meant for "rending and tearing" flesh, then I'd like to invite you to do the following: Go find a racoon and see how far you get trying to bite through it's thick hide and fur. We may be omnivores, but we're really only opportunistic meat eaters. Eating insects and scavaging opportunistically for small injured/dead animals. Otherwise, we're 99% vegetable material.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 1:56:19 PM EDT
Even if you are correct, there is nothing that current medicine can do to help me now. I have an insulin problem. It is already too late. The only thing I can do is eliminate the carbohydrates. Even if I do not lose any weight it is the best thing I can do for my body.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 2:00:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2003 2:02:27 PM EDT by SuperAlpha]
8 Million years ago, I am sure they were active all the time, and their life spans were not long at all. (oh yeah - how do you "know" they were not fat back then? Skeletal remains don't show obesity very well - unless you want to try to prove the *big-boned* theory...haha) I used to be active, then I stopped (swim team was not available in college). I gained weight. I have a sugar problem now. THERE IS ONLY ONE SOLUTION - ELIMINATE CARBOHYDRATES. Had I thought about limiting them long ago, or staying active, then I would not be in this mess, but it is TOO LATE. The damage is done!
Originally Posted By ump45: There's the physical anthropology. If you look at our teeth, we're clearly meant for a diet consisting overwhelmingly of vegetable material. If you think your "canine" teeth are meant for "rending and tearing" flesh, then I'd like to invite you to do the following: Go find a racoon and see how far you get trying to bite through it's thick hide and fur. We may be omnivores, but we're really only opportunistic meat eaters. Eating insects and scavaging opportunistically for small injured/dead animals. Otherwise, we're 99% vegetable material.
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Link Posted: 5/22/2003 2:02:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ump45: For the last 8 million years of our Hominid existence, our diet has consisted overwhelmingly of vegetable material. This is the optimum diet for our body. The Atkins diet is a complete perversion. Anyone who stuffs mass quantities of meat and dairy into their body and expects to be healthy in the long run is a fool.
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You seriously need to read "Protein Power" by Michael Eades, MD. Then you would know that the vegetable myth is complete bullshit. Humans are, and have always been, PREDATORS. Sure, we eat some plant matter, so do dogs and cats. Vegetarians have RUMINOID digestive systems, like sheep and cattle, that use the fermentive process for digestion. Carnivores, on the other hand, have a putrificative process for digestion. Want proof? How many stomaches does a sheep have? Does a cow have? and they have to eat CONSTANTLY to keep up with their physical needs. Carnivores have ONE STOMACH and they only have to fill it once or twice a day. Seriously, you need to check this out. Vegetarianism is a lie that has been perpetrated on the masses by DU's who feel guilty about taking the lives of prey in order to survive.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 2:05:49 PM EDT
My boss is vegetarian and he must take supplements to help with digestion.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 2:07:51 PM EDT
The snack food industry pushes carbohydrates because they are cheap and last a long time. They should be sued like the tobacco industries. :) j/k about the suing
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 2:10:15 PM EDT
Ever wonder how cows get cholesterol problems and their arteries are clogged? (The medical industry uses cow arteries for demonstrating what can happen to a human artery.) It certainly isn't from any of the *MEAT* that they eat.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 2:11:49 PM EDT
"Humans are, and have always been, PREDATORS." I don't believe that's true. You have to consider our Hominid ancestors. These were our distant ancestors, as far back as 8 million years, and they did not know how to make tools, and they did not hunt. That's an 8 million year legacy of our bodies being adapted to a diet consisting overwhelmingly of vegetable material. "Sure, we eat some plant matter, so do dogs and cats. Vegetarians have RUMINOID digestive systems, like sheep and cattle, that use the fermentive process for digestion. Carnivores, on the other hand, have a putrificative process for digestion. Want proof? How many stomaches does a sheep have? Does a cow have? and they have to eat CONSTANTLY to keep up with their physical needs. Carnivores have ONE STOMACH and they only have to fill it once or twice a day." There are plenty of vegetarian animals that do not have a ruminoid digestive system. There are plenty of vegetarian animals that have only 1 stomach. For example, gorillas have 1 stomach with a putrification digestive system. They also have very large scary teeth, but they are completely vegetarian. "Vegetarianism is a lie that has been perpetrated on the masses by DU's who feel guilty about taking the lives of prey in order to survive." I don't think politics is part of the debate. At least it's not part of my thinking on the subject.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 2:15:12 PM EDT
Well the diet I am following is SugarBusters. You eat fruits,veggies,lean cuts of meat and whole wheat products. NO SUGAR.I also am follwing a strict low fat with portion control diet.(3 diets in one) Daily power walks and drink plenty of water. Lost 15lbs the first month.I feel great. 15 more pounds to go which should take me about 2 more months. Then I will drop the portion control and eat a little more just to maintain what I want to weigh. Get the book.My goal is to get a eight pack.(live too close to the nuclear plant)
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 3:32:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2003 3:44:02 PM EDT by ArmdLbrl]
Originally Posted By ump45: "Humans are, and have always been, PREDATORS." I don't believe that's true. You have to consider our Hominid ancestors. These were our distant ancestors, as far back as 8 million years, and they did not know how to make tools, and they did not hunt. That's an 8 million year legacy of our bodies being adapted to a diet consisting overwhelmingly of vegetable material. "Sure, we eat some plant matter, so do dogs and cats. Vegetarians have RUMINOID digestive systems, like sheep and cattle, that use the fermentive process for digestion. Carnivores, on the other hand, have a putrificative process for digestion. Want proof? How many stomaches does a sheep have? Does a cow have? and they have to eat CONSTANTLY to keep up with their physical needs. Carnivores have ONE STOMACH and they only have to fill it once or twice a day." There are plenty of vegetarian animals that do not have a ruminoid digestive system. There are plenty of vegetarian animals that have only 1 stomach. For example, gorillas have 1 stomach with a putrification digestive system. They also have very large scary teeth, but they are completely vegetarian. "Vegetarianism is a lie that has been perpetrated on the masses by DU's who feel guilty about taking the lives of prey in order to survive." I don't think politics is part of the debate. At least it's not part of my thinking on the subject.
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No, we ate meat. We were primarily scavengers first, though some small scale hunting probably always occured-chimps and baboons both hunt without tools, things like spider monkeys and baby rabbits that are small enough to break their necks with your hands or bash them against a tree or rock. Meat catching was easier for those primates that walked upright (our line) than for those who remained quadraped and stayed in the trees (chimp line). Our ancestors hands were free. Tools (weapons) were evolved to feed our need for meat, we didn't develop them first and then go "hey we can kill something and eat it". And homanids almost certainly [i]used[/i] tools before we [i]made[/i] them. Several other primates use tools today(rocks and sticks), nor are they the only animals that do so. They just pick them up from the ground and don't modify them themselves. But such use doesn't leave a record, unless you are there to capture it on film. All primates known are omnivors. Even the earliest lemur like ones ate fruit, insects, eggs, nuts, baby birds, whatever can be found in trees. Pandas, gorillas, and orangutans are very large mostly vegitarians that still betray their omnivorus or carnivorus legacy in their dentition and their digestive system. They re-adapted to a local niche. All three species still like meat, even if they don't hunt for it. Cooking or rotting meat is often used as bait to lure each of these species in for photography or capture.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 4:07:25 PM EDT
Eating meat led to a more developed brain.
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