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Posted: 5/22/2003 7:16:33 AM EDT
Was in the gun shop the other day. And here was a guy trying to find out what his stolen guns were worth. The people who stole them went right over his power tools and straight for the guns in his closet and drawers. Emptied his stuff on the bed and filled the pillow cases. Guess what, he had no list of what he had to show the sheriffs or insurance company what was stolen. His reciepts were in the drawers with his guns. So he is standing there with a long face wondering why the shop owner can't really help him. Trying not to add insult to injury, he got a lot of advice after the fact. So here is proof, keep your own records and keep them seperate.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 7:21:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 7:22:29 AM EDT
No flame here but I am amazed that people still own numerous guns and make no provision to store them securely. A closet is not enough.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 8:12:15 AM EDT
Gun Safe?[stick]
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 8:13:43 AM EDT
Pictures are a good idea too! Keep the inventory and photos on a CD or diskette, in addition to your hard drive (as a backup). Easy enough to put together a complete picture album for this purpose. I don't give the inventory to the insurance company though. I don't trust that they will safe keep the information. I don't have to provide this information on any of my other possessions and they are covered by insurance. As for "A closet is not enough", true, but isn't a locked house just a extra large gun cabinet? [:)]
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 8:20:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 8:29:57 AM EDT
A video of them stored off site(at a family members home?)works too.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 8:43:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Motor_City_Tactical: No flame here but I am amazed that people still own numerous guns and make no provision to store them securely. A closet is not enough.
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I agree..If you can affort to get a few weapons worth $800-1000 each, get a safe they cost about the same. My wife told me I can get what ever I want, provided I have a safe.....got one teh next day! Best $1k+ i ever spent...Thank you Liberty Safes!
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 8:46:38 AM EDT
I am looking to get my third safe. My first two are busting-open full.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 8:53:10 AM EDT
I kept all the recipts for all my guns, my friends say i'm dumb for doing it but what happened to that guy is the exact reason why i do keep that info, and keep it in a seperate lock box outside the safe in a totaly different room.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 8:55:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By NevadaARshooter: I am looking to get my third safe. My first two are busting-open full.
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Buy the biggest safe even if you can't afford it. Reason: The man rule; we will always expand to fill whatever space we have at hand, garage, spare room, shed, and gun safes.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 9:06:30 AM EDT
Along with safes, everytime I get a new firearm, I take a couple pics, get serial and any other markings(I have a handful of mausers and markings are everything), and email them to my dad. He buurns them to a CD he keeps for me at his house. In return, I do the same for him. Works well and I never have to worry about it. Regards, CH
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 9:14:37 AM EDT
Does anybody know of a good, but inexpensive safe that would be good for an apartment. I have three (soon to be four) long guns, a handgun, and some ammo to store, but not a lot of room.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 9:41:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Spade: Does anybody know of a good, but inexpensive safe that would be good for an apartment. I have three (soon to be four) long guns, a handgun, and some ammo to store, but not a lot of room.
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ditto on that question.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 9:44:16 AM EDT
home depot has some from time to time, very good for what you are looking for and reasonably priced. TXL
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 3:50:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 4:05:51 PM EDT
I keep ALL of my firearms reciepts & documentation in a safe deposit box in a bank. I can prove that my stripped lower reciever was a pre-'94 AND I got the receipt for my upper that I bought at the sametime. But thing, be descrete about letting other people know that you are a gun owner, your friend may be good, but your friend's buddy?? And of course a good safe. But I have heard people having their guns stolen right out of their safe too. So maybe a layered defense is in order.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 4:16:40 PM EDT
Take a Polaroid of each gun including the original box. On the back of the pic, write model, and S/N. Keep recites. Then put photos in an album, and keep it somewhere besides the home.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 4:27:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TxLewis: home depot has some from time to time, very good for what you are looking for and reasonably priced. TXL
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[url=http://www.deansafe.com/FS3920.html]Agreed.[/url] This is the one that you'll find at Home Depot. I got mine at Menards for $275 at their 'Black Friday' sale a couple years ago. Much better then the Homak or Stack-On crap, weight that 4 people can get up stairs, and fits under the closet bar in my condo with no problem. So long as you have some friends to help you move it in...
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 5:21:49 PM EDT
Many dealers keep a searchable computer database of their 4473's, for just that reason. This is one reason my transfers only go through 1 or 2 dealers. Your friend should be able to get a list. If the dealer has to hand search, it will take some time, unless friend has approx dates of transfers.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 5:23:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:
Originally Posted By Spade: Does anybody know of a good, but inexpensive safe that would be good for an apartment. I have three (soon to be four) long guns, a handgun, and some ammo to store, but not a lot of room.
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People who live in apartments are basically screwed. Anything I've found so far that offers any true level of protection weighs far too much to put in an upstairs apartment. As far as I know Stack-On or Homacks are really about it for apartments and they really don't offer any level of protection at all. Someone please correct me and help out the renters!
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Well...I'm not so sure they don't provide any protection at all. I've got two Homaks (I'm military, don't want to move a 700lb safe every two years), and when they are properly attached to the wall studs I think they're pretty secure--a couple of 1/2" x 3" lag bolts screwed into the studs make them pretty immovable. Remember that your biggest enemy is time--the longer the goblin is in your house the longer he has to defeat any security system. Most Homak-style cabinets are made out of 12-ga or 16ga steel, with pretty heavy-duty locks and piano hinges on the doors. Not something that your average Joe Goblin is prepared to defeat! Even if they aren't attached to the wall, a full cabinet (one of the wide ones for eight long guns) probably weighs 300lbs, and is very hard to carry by two people. For an apartment, I'd say the Homaks are a perfect balance between space/weight considerations, and properly securing firearms. They are, after all, better than nothing, especially when installed properly.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 5:29:35 PM EDT
The Homack/Stack-ons are certainly less than optimal, but they require tools and time to open. Considerably better than nothing at very little cost.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 5:53:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:
Originally Posted By Spade: Does anybody know of a good, but inexpensive safe that would be good for an apartment. I have three (soon to be four) long guns, a handgun, and some ammo to store, but not a lot of room.
View Quote
People who live in apartments are basically screwed. Anything I've found so far that offers any true level of protection weighs far too much to put in an upstairs apartment. As far as I know Stack-On or Homacks are really about it for apartments and they really don't offer any level of protection at all. Someone please correct me and help out the renters!
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I'm using an 8-(long)gun Homak, it's tucked into the end of the closed, lag bolted into the wall studs and floor, with the piano-hinge outward. Restricted access for any attempts to pry the door open. Mild inconvenience for myself. Safe (no pun intended) enough for curious kids and prying hands, and enough to prevent loss in a casual home burglary. Sure, if someone breaks into my home specifically to get my guns, they are easy meat. Then again, I don't flaunt their presence. Certainly decent security for the ~$125 price. Besides, most apartment lease agreements forbid the holding of weapons on the premises (read your fine print) - you are best off keeping such a locked storage device, anyway, for your valuables. Out of sight, secure, and when the landlord says 'our handyman reports a locked box in your closet, what is it?', you can ream they asses for snooping. If you can't afford (or fit) a quality ~$700-2,500 safe, AT LEAST get something like the Homak. As already said - (loose) in the closet or dresser or under the bed is frikkin' Unsat.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 9:44:35 PM EDT
It's very important to keep receipts for all gun purchases IN A SECURE LOCATION AWAY FROM THE GUNS. Most agencies don't want to return recovered guns to the owner without proof of ownership. Original receipts, with the serial numbers on the receipt are best, along with pictures of the guns, including closeups of serial numbers where possible. On gun thefts in our county, only about 50% of the victims have make, model & serial number of their guns. All of these are necessary to enter the stolen guns into NCIC database, so you will have a (slim) chance of getting them back. We have an evidence room full of recovered guns that we are reasonably certain have been stolen SOMEWHERE, but since the guns are not entered by serial number, we have no way of locating the owner. Don't do what a former deputy in our county did. He had his wife record all the info (make, model, serial #, photos, etc) onto disks, then left the disks with her computer, which was stolen at the same time as the guns. Keep the disk in a safe deposit box, or at least somewhere well away from the guns.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 9:53:02 PM EDT
I don't have any receipts from my guns... Well maybe my first Pre-Ban AK, which I sold. And maybe my newest AR, even though I don't know where exactly where it is. Don't own a safe. If (and when) live(d) alone, I would have one. Currently there is someone home at all times. A person wanting to steal them would do so bullets first. When I'm personally gone, most of my guns are with me, I've had to trim down my gun collection. TS
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 6:17:53 AM EDT
Receipts are not a common item. I don't have receipts for 80% of my guns. Mostly private sales (lucky). But I can prove they are all mine with my own inventory list and pictures. All are seperate from the guns, not on the hard-drive and a hard copy duplicate list at my folks house in their safe. Saftey deposit box is secure yes, but if something bad happens to you, your inventory could wind-up in probate. Just keep a back-up list with someone you trust off your property. And don't have your name and address on the list for obvious reasons. That's what I like about NRA insurance. No detailed list or even serial numbers required. Just a brief description if a certain one is over $1500.00 value. The rest is just a blanket value. It's called Scheduled and Un-Scheduled value, check it out if you haven't already.
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 6:23:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Spade: Does anybody know of a good, but inexpensive safe that would be good for an apartment. I have three (soon to be four) long guns, a handgun, and some ammo to store, but not a lot of room.
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I have 2 Stack-on gun cabinets. They bolt to the wall. Ideal for renters.
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 6:44:41 AM EDT
I maintain inventory sheets by category. Guns on one list, high value household items on another. The lists are updated and checked as needed, photographs are made of each item as they are added to the list (or disposed of if the item is disposed of), and one copy stays in the filing cabinet at the house, while the other copy goes to the safe deposit box at the bank, in a sealed envelope that I have hand-cancelled across the flap at the post office to provide positive proof of date. And of course, I do have a gun safe. I'm not saying what's in it. CJ
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 6:48:02 AM EDT
i keep a list with pictures seperate from where i keep my guns, and a digital copy on my HD and on the web
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