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Posted: 5/20/2003 5:13:17 PM EDT
What do you guys think of law enforcement giving out citations to drivers who don't wear seat belts. I understand there are laws like obeying street signs, lights and speed limits that will prevent other drivers from getting hurt, but what right does anyone have to say how safe I HAVE to be INSIDE my own vehicle? If I don't wear a seatbelt, I AM NOT hurting or bringing other drivers on the road to any harm. I would be only be bringing my own self at risk to injury and that is my choice and my problem. I would understand a law that would require infants and children to be seatbelted, but adults should be free to choose to be secured as they see fit. I don't wear seatbelts that often as I find them very uncomfortable. I would probably attempt to wear seatbelts all the time ONLY IF I wasn't "threatened" by the authorities to fine me for not wearing one. If law enforcement would nicely "suggest" that I wear one without any penalties, I would be more likely to wear one. Oh yeah, BTW, My late grandmother was once in a automobile accident where another car hit her car on the side where she was sitting on. She was the passenger and was wearing a seat belt. Because of her seatbelt, she could not move sideways fast enough to move away from the impact of the other car and suffered very bad spinal injuries. Perhaps that memory is another reason why I don't always wear seatbelts. Click It or Ticket?? So they want to save lives?? How about giving me a CCW in IL. and I will save more lives. [b]ArmaLiter[/b]
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 5:19:07 PM EDT
Sometimes I wear my seatbelt and sometimes I don't, but it doesn't have anything to do with the law. I personally think that seatbelt laws and helmet laws are bullshit and given the choice I'll usually just take the ticket. I can't say here what I think about someone who would pull someone else over just because they weren't wearing their seatbelt. I've had it tacked on to other tickets, but never pulled over just for that.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 5:19:07 PM EDT
my uncle rolled his truck in '86 and hung upside down in his seatbelt and choked to death on his own blood one of our bobtail drivers hit a culvert in a 2.5 ton chevy, steering column went through the back of the cab and bent on the tank, would have been decapitated if he didnt fly out girl i know driving a neon thrown out when hit a herd of wild pigs, thrown out, car was a complete loss, probably would have died that said, i've seen seatbelts that did or could have saved as well not the govt's place to tell me whether or not i should wear one, motorcycle riders with the insurance dont have to wear helmets, WTF?
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 5:22:26 PM EDT
also, its a time and place matter as well, in a jeep for example, i wear my seatbelt, that roll cage is there for a reason. in my race car, with the 5 point, roll cage, helmet, nomex, etc... i wore one, shazam sometimes i dont think its warranted, sometimes it is
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 5:23:27 PM EDT
Well Arma..seat belts do save lives..she may suffered spinal injury but she could have been thrown and killed. I know about a car accident where neither the driver nor passenger wore their seat belt..he was thrown and hit the tree head first..she was thrown and also died on impact. I've personally seen about a 13 year old girl thrown from a vehicle dead on the side of the road. It's kind of like helmet laws..although they may save your life, they're very likely to leave you a quadrapalegic. You still have a choice..but the one leaves you with a $25 ticket. In a wreck you could be thrown and fall into oncoming traffic..then you're not just hurting yourself anymore. Know if you don't wear your sealt belt you're more likely to die in a high speed collision. Your choice. I think seat belt laws are very fair..they were installed as safety features for a reason. Law enforcement is there to serve and protect... protecting is just what they're doing.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 5:24:44 PM EDT
You can relate a ton of + and - seatbelt stories. My brother's friend lived only because of her seatbelt, and had a black and blue shaped exactly like the seatbelt on her body- without it, that much force into the windshield would have killed her. That said- I am annoyed by states with seatbelt laws. I always wear mine, and question friends who get into my car and don't put them on like they're nuts, but I don't think the state should be telling you to do it.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 5:26:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HeldHostage: I think seat belt laws are very fair..they were installed as safety features for a reason. Law enforcement is there to serve and protect... protecting is just what they're doing.
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That is rediculous. Are you going to think and say the same thing when the government takes away your pocket knife and gives you a pair of safety scissors? [img]http://mailjust4me.com/artscissors.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 5:33:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 5:52:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HeldHostage: Well Arma..seat belts do save lives..she may suffered spinal injury but she could have been thrown and killed. I know about a car accident where neither the driver nor passenger wore their seat belt..he was thrown and hit the tree head first..she was thrown and also died on impact. I've personally seen about a 13 year old girl thrown from a vehicle dead on the side of the road. It's kind of like helmet laws..although they may save your life, they're very likely to leave you a quadrapalegic. You still have a choice..but the one leaves you with a $25 ticket. In a wreck you could be thrown and fall into oncoming traffic..then you're not just hurting yourself anymore. Know if you don't wear your sealt belt you're more likely to die in a high speed collision. Your choice. [red]I think seat belt laws are very fair..they were installed as safety features for a reason. Law enforcement is there to serve and protect... protecting is just what they're doing[/red].
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Prime example that pollution IS affecting the gene pool in America.....
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 6:06:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 6:08:22 PM EDT
how hard is it to wear your damn seatbelt? Plus you'll be safer in accidents (most of the time) in turn keeping down insurance costs for everyone that drives the same vehicle you were ejected from
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 6:09:24 PM EDT
Seat belts saved my life...I lost control of my truck (97 f-150, 4wd) 12/05/01 on some black ice, because the idiot in front of me decides to hit the brakes for some unknown reason, I ended up sliding across the median strip into the path of a semi..it tore the entire front end of my truck off, engine,both fenders, hood, axle, everything, I got a punctured lung, lost all but about 3-4 ribs on my left side, lost my spleen...had I not buckled up I would have been killed, as it was, I almost died, The accident happened about 2 miles from a excellent hospital, (God moves in mysterious ways, fellas, that's the truth!)Now, I don't care if you wear them or not, that's up to you, they're in there for a reason,they work, I know I'll wear mine, you do whatever you think is best for you....God help you if you're wrong...
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 6:12:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By thesacrifice: how hard is it to wear your damn seatbelt? Plus you'll be safer in accidents (most of the time) in turn keeping down insurance costs for everyone that drives the same vehicle you were ejected from
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So you want me to wear my seatbelt so that you can save some money on your insurance? Now I'll never wear it. Thanks for giving me a good excuse.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 6:13:45 PM EDT
Seat belt laws were pushed through by the insurance companies. They figure if seat belts are manditory, then there will be fewer injuries and deaths and they get to keep more of the money you send them each quarter. Sort of like when the ins. companies purchase laser and radar guns and donate them to police depts. The courts are more than happy to prosecute these laws simply because it means more money for the government(s). I think it's a bunch of horseshit. The friggin' idea of someone telling me that I HAVE to wear my seat belt burns my ass. What's next are they going to come take all of the sharp objects out of my house?
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 6:21:06 PM EDT
Seatbelt laws are stupid, I wear one, just like I wear a Helmet. It is a personal choice. Here in NC they can pull you for not wearing one and that is the only reason for the stop. I know quite a few people who have been pulled in a particular jurisdiction while wearing a seatbelt and the Officer has stated that was the reason for pulling them over. And just as they tell you that they will let you off withought the $25 ticket + $50 court costs they say the majic words they are really after "You don't mind if I search your car do you?" It is just one more reason to stop people, one more way to generate revenue. BTW maybe one of the LEO's can explain why they have specific times of the year when they enforce laws more heavily than others (ie "Click it or Ticket") isn't the job to enforce all the laws all the time?
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 6:22:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sherrick13: The seat belt law is unconstitutional and I never even pull anyone over for it let alone write any tickets.
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Sherrick, don't take this wrong, but I have seen several statements from you like this. I AIN'T knocking it, but, are you really a sworn cop??? If yes, how in the HELL do you survive the bureaucrats..... You are OKC pd or sheriff aren't you?? Feel free to answer by e-mail, or IM, if you'd prefer... Or, I guess, not at all..[:D]
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 6:22:58 PM EDT
Laws requiring seat belts are silly; except for kids. Kids don't know enough to keep themselves from harm. Adults know enough to buckle up without having to be told. I have heard the stories of people being "thrown clear" but I have seen the result of being ejected from a vehicle and the story always has a bad ending. I have also seen a car get "totaled" and everyone in the car walk away; because they were all wearing seat belts.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 6:27:06 PM EDT
Any argument against wearing seatbelts is not even worthy of discussion. They save lives. That being said I don't think anyone has the right to make me wear one. If I choose not to wear on and get into an accident nobody but me should pay the price. If I don't have the insurance or cash and medical attention is required I should die.(Murphys law / survival of the fittest). BTW I wear one and it has recently saved my life.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 6:31:29 PM EDT
Seatbelt laws are stupid and no one should be forced to wear one. That being said, I never get behind the wheel without buckling up. Kissing one windshield was enough for me.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 6:33:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 6:33:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 6:41:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ADTECHARMS: BTW maybe one of the LEO's can explain why they have specific times of the year when they enforce laws more heavily than others (ie "Click it or Ticket") isn't the job to enforce all the laws all the time?
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It's how the Feds get around the 10th Amendment. If the cops want federal $$, they hafta go on these "Enforcement rants".
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 6:51:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sherrick13: I'm a cop. Ask some of the people that saw my "On duty dinner pic". I stay plenty active but I go after people that are a danger to public safety. i.e. speeding 15 or greater over, changing lanes unsafely, running stop signs etc.. And druggies. I do believe in most drug laws.
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Do me a favor, will ya?? Move to Oregon, preferably to Coos County........and make it 20 over on the speed depending on conditions..[:D]
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 6:56:41 PM EDT
It's kind of like helmet laws..although they may save your life, they're very likely to leave you a quadrapalegic
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As in alive, permanently paralyzed, and too badly paralyzed to even shoot your own lights out???? Fuck that, I'd rather die on impact.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 6:58:24 PM EDT
Seatbelts do save lives but I am not sure that it is the governments job to enforce such a law. I think that the resources should be invested in other areas. On the news I recently saw a report that indicated seatbelt use was never higher in PA, above 80%. Worse yet a recent newspaper article indicated that police were targeting teens. We won't profile muslims as a result of terrorist acts but we will profile teens for not wearing seatbelts. A point to ponder....if the SCOTUS ruled that police are not responsible for protecting individuals but society as a whole, does this conflict with seatbelt enforcement since seatbelts protect the individual?
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 7:22:23 PM EDT
Your approaching a four way stop doing 35mph. You have clear sight and there is absolutely NO crosstraffic or oncoming traffic. You blow the stop sign. Cop behind you nails you. What's your defense? "there was no one around - NO ONE WAS IN DANGER by my actions! I can take care of myself!" [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 7:48:00 PM EDT
I work for a vehicle research company and work on the crash test sled. Trust me, after seeing a few of the crashes that are only 35mph, you'd think twice about wearing the belts Its up to you but I do now.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 8:08:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2003 8:27:38 PM EDT by sharky30]
I always wear my seat belt for safety reasons not legal ones, but I don't agree with the law. just another nanny state law
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 8:14:29 PM EDT
I would be dead three times without belts. Ironhead died because of one improperly mounted. I recognize the "nobody can tell me what to do" attitude is a big part of this and even understand it a little. Maybe we should change the law about mandatory use - then add a clause that FORBIDS ANY insurance payments (Medicaid, Medicare too) to those injured in MVA that was NOT wearing belt. Same for donor cycle ridrs without helmet and eye protection. Not sure how we keep the hospitals from treating the morons for "free" then tacking the cost onto the rest of us but will give it some thought. Non wearers are candidates for Darwin awards! I have no desire to pay for anothers stupidity. Maybe we should discourage use. US is overpopulated and saving all these lives makes it worse. How about a "population impact statement" for ALL life saving actions?
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 8:23:03 PM EDT
My next door neighbor, Kenny, and his brother were in a head on collision in Buda Texas a few weeks ago. Kenny was driving his newer model F-150, complete with a driver side air bag without wearing his seat belt. His brother was wearing his seat belt. Kenny died at the scene, in his brothers arms. He was 30 years old. He teased his older brother and called him a pussy for buckling up just a few minutes before the wreck. I ALLWAYS wear a seat belt. I do believe the seatbelt laws that require us to use them go over the line, and are just another intrusion into our lives by Big Brother. It's about freedom of choice. It seems to me we have fewer and fewer choices available to us each day. Can anyone show me ANYTHING in our lives that is NOT regulated by some local, State, or Federal beauracracy?
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 8:26:04 PM EDT
Do I think wearing a seatbelt is a good idea, that it saves lives? Absolutely! Do I think I should be ticketed for not wearing a seatbelt? No way, Jose! The seat belt laws were sneekily written to give police an easy excuse to stop you without a real reason. They can always say in court, "The driver appeared to not be wearing a seatbelt, so I pulled him over. And while checking his license, I noticed something that appeared suspicious..." You can't prove you did have the seatbelt on. And once stopped, they can make up whatever they want to about reasonable cause to search. It is a scam.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 8:48:22 PM EDT
I wear my seatbelt about 80% of the time now, and all the time when i first got my license. I dunno, im just lazy sometimes i guess. But i would rather have those black n' blues i got across my chest and stomach than have the kiss of the windshield when i hit a Dakota with an Accord. Shaken up a lot, but not hurt. And I can say I have seen a lot more people fvcked up at MVAs not wearing seatbelts than those that have. Evidence enough for me. I think that the chances they will save your life far outweigh the fear that they will hinder action.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 9:34:05 PM EDT
I wear my seat belt and my passengers wear theirs 100% of the time. I have heard where people were wearing seat belt survived and those that didn't died. Wearing a seat belt will not garauntee that you will survive or be un-injured in a crash, like everything else in this world, it just increases your odds of suriviving. As for the law being fair/unfair I leave it up the individual driver, but there are a lot of lousy drivers in this world, so....
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 10:48:40 PM EDT
As has previously been said, a seatbelt does not guarantee that you will walk away from an accident unharmed...but it will vastly increase your odds of not being hurt seriously or killed. If you have an airbag in your car, better buckle up. Next time Discovery Channel has a car crash documentary, watch what happens to the crash dummies NOT wearing them...whole body slides forward and then BAMMM, your head gets snapped back like a Hank Aaron homerun. You may be the safest driver on the road, but that won't help the drunk in the on-coming lane drive one bit better. They put seatbelts in race cars, monster trucks, hell they even have'em on tractors...its just common sense. As for those who wanna ride motorcycles without a helmet...well, they're just a bunch'a damn fools. I raced harescrambles and motocross, I have great admiration & respect for a well-fitting, good quality helmet.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 12:33:48 AM EDT
Wearing a seat belt should be the driver or occupants of the vehicle choice in the matter. I think it is unfair and BS if a motorist is cited for a seat belt violation especially if the state the citation was issued does not require a motorcycle rider to wear a helmet.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 12:36:21 AM EDT
When you're a big guy like me, wearing a freaking seatbelt in a car already too damn small can feel claustrophobic. I think the law is total [BS], and it should be our right to decide how safe we are.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 12:40:30 AM EDT
I used to wear my seatbelt 100% of the time. I figured that if it was good enough for Nascar drivers, it was good enough for me. I quit watching Nascar about 10 years ago and now that they have passed seatbelt laws in MS, I wear my seatbelt 0% of the time. They can kiss my ass.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 3:30:53 AM EDT
I have issued probably thousands of traffic tickets. I have never issued one for a seatbelt violation. I have issued parents for failing to properly restrain their kids. I think that wearing a seatbelt, for adults, is a matter of personal choice. Personally, I would never be in a moving vehicle without wearing a seatbelt, and I think that folks who don't wear seatbelts are idiots. The chance of a person being "thrown clear" of a bad situation inside of a car and not being killed in the process are so slim that you could probably only pull it off if you can do "Matrix"-style moves. I have also worked many, many accidents where folks SHOULD have been killed, and they walked away because of the excellent auto safety devices, including seatbelts, built into vehicles. Most of the fatalities I have worked involved one of two things: 1) you are dead no matter what (head-ons at 100 MPH +, and I have still seen folks walk away from those); 2) Occupants thrown from vehicles because they didn't wear a seat belt. Wear your seatbelt. Even if you don't believe me, your flying body is also a grave danger to everybody else in the vehicle. If your unrestrained, mangled corpse hits somebody else in the vehicle at 60 MPH or so, you could very weel be responsible for their deaths as well.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 3:31:14 AM EDT
I fasten my seat belt every time I get in a car. I wear a motorcycle helmet about 99.5% of the time. Because I choose to do so. I don't like the idea of a paternalistic government trying to protect us from ourselves. I grew up in a state with a mandatory helmet law. When my Mom visited me here in SC she was surprised (actually, almost shocked) that the STATE would LET people ride without a helmet. After all, that's so dangerous! I thought about how we are indoctrinated into sheeple mindsets from a young age by the government. I buckle up and wear a helmet. I don't need or want a law mandating it.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 3:43:53 AM EDT
Sure some people fare better without a seatbelt, but the odds are wearing a seatbelt will save your ass. I also wear mine but the gubmint really doesn't have any business forcing people to wear seatbelts. You are not a danger to anyone by not wearing your seatbelt. In the near future: walking and chewing gum at the same time?? That will be 50 bucks!
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 8:18:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmaLiter: I understand there are laws like obeying street signs, lights and speed limits that will prevent other drivers from getting hurt, but what right does anyone have to say how safe I HAVE to be INSIDE my own vehicle? If I don't wear a seatbelt, I AM NOT hurting or bringing other drivers on the road to any harm.
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Accidents often have more than one point of impact. A properly restrained driver can recover from the first impact and take corrective steps to minimize the risk of additional collisions. An unrestrained driver can be rendered unconcious, or knocked out of the drivers position, and is unable to take any corrective action between the first point of action and the final point of rest. But don take my word for it, I only write traffic collison reports for a living.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 9:03:08 AM EDT
As of this monday LEO's have the ok to pull you over and ticket you for a seatbelt violation in wisconsin. To my nowledge they could not do this before monday, however if you were pulled over for somethig else and not wearing a seat belt they could ticket you. Do i agree with it. HELL NO! why is really simple. When it comes to my safety in my home or in public places(like the court house) LEO's are not respocable to protect me. As all the commercials the state was airing to remind us of the new seatbelt law, there doing this for our safety, to protect us. Well thanks but no thanks, if i choose to not wear a seat belt and risk getting thrown through a window in a accident thats my choice. I had two friends that got into a car accident, it was a rollover, the one who was wearing his seat belt died, the one who wasn't was thrown from the vehical, and lived. And I've read to many times about people being killed and wearing seatbelts and people not wearing them and living, and vise versa. to me there is no real hardcore proof that seatbelts do save lives. just my $.02
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 9:05:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2003 9:06:29 AM EDT by Zaphod]
Seat belt laws SUCK! If I'm stupid enough to want to drive without wearing one, that's my own problem because the only person who will be hurt will be ME. As for laws requiring that children be strapped in: I'm more inclined to agree with those, simply because the child can't make the decision for itself. HOWEVER, I also can't shake the idea that how my child is protected in a car is ALSO MY responsibility, and if I'm stupid enough NOT to secure my child, and they are hurt/killed as a result, then I should be held accountable accordingly. Either way, seat-belt laws are simply another method for the state to rip you from your money under the guise of "safety". Makes me want to wretch... BTW, the same holds for those pathetic helmet laws, both on motorcycles and bicycles...
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 9:11:37 AM EDT
Someday soon, there will be laws about what food you can and can't eat. First seat belt laws Then anti-smoking laws. Next will be laws against unhealthy food. ESPECIALLY if there is ever "Universal Healthcare". Then they will say that if YOU do something that's not healthy, WE will all have to pay for it. That's how they justified helmet and seatbelt laws. Just wait.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 9:18:27 AM EDT
After seeing a 5 yr old kid flying out of a Ford Bronco's window and having his brains splattered all over the street I wear one all the time. My kids wear theirs and anyone who rides in my car wears one. If you don't like to wear one in my car there is always the bus. If you're in your car, drive naked and on fire for all I care.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 9:21:10 AM EDT
i have an 8" scar on my stomach...caused by injuries DONE BY a seat beat buckle (perforated large and small intestine requiring a bowel resection). without the lap and shoulder belts on, i would have most probably be killed from the impact. i wear a seatbelt nearly 100% of the time the vehicle is moving. now...should there be laws on the books requiring me to do so? no. not imo. ohio's seat belt law was passed many years ago with the proviso that at no time would it be used as a reason to stop a motorist...that clause was written right into the code. guess what? that was changed. now, we can be pulled over for not wearing a seatbelt and i know folks who have had that happen to them. the ohio seatbelt law was originally written by and for the benifit of insurance companies. it was not written for the purpose of "public safety". it's all about the money. i used to ride the "abate" helmet protest rides". i wear a brain bucket, but it is not the state's place to mandate either the wearing of a helmet or a seat belt imo. ymmv.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 9:22:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2003 9:23:31 AM EDT by Offspring]
When you're a big guy like me, wearing a freaking seatbelt in a car already too damn small can feel claustrophobic.
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Caskets aren't too roomy either.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 9:43:44 AM EDT
Seatbelt and helmet laws are an insult to any rational, thinking adult. They exist because rational, thinking adults are so hard to find.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 9:47:41 AM EDT
I'm a retired police officer and I don't/didn't agree with the law either, but I wore the belt on duty and usually wear it now, especially on trips. That said, I had just gotten off duty and was heading home in my cruiser, when I got struck head on by a drunk driver. The belt and the air bag saved my life and kept me from having any serious injuries. My shirt was melted under the area where the seat belt contacted it in the shoulder area from friction when I was thrown forward and before the air bag caught me. My shoulder also showed the belt bruise on the skin. All in all, I'm glad I had it on. The cruiser a 93 Ford Crown Vic was totalled and they had to cut me out of it.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 10:09:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: Your approaching a four way stop doing 35mph. You have clear sight and there is absolutely NO crosstraffic or oncoming traffic. You blow the stop sign. Cop behind you nails you. What's your defense? "there was no one around - NO ONE WAS IN DANGER by my actions! I can take care of myself!" [rolleyes]
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There is a HUGE difference between your analogy and the use of seatbelts. Whether or not I wear my seatbelt does not put anyone else in danger unless my body becomes a projectile. Not seeing an oncoming car and blowing a stop sign could jeoprodize the safety of others.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 10:19:11 AM EDT
Seatbelts save lives, NO QUESTION ABOUT IT. Yet, not having cars would save a lot more lives. No alcohol or drugs would do the same. And no guns would save even more. In fact, if the gov't were to require us all to live inside of giant foam balls, just think how many more lives would be saved. And forget eating, no choking deaths allowed. No swimming pools=no drowning. ad naseum
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