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Posted: 5/18/2003 6:03:10 AM EDT
Bandwidth leach attempt warning Attempted from: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=75&t=186390 Attempted at: 5/18/2003 6:27:32 AM (server local time) Attempted File: PM120.jpg
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The above note comes to me each and every time someone attempts to directly link a Private Murphy's Law cartoon from my site (www.paratrooper.net) Recently, Ive had some pretty huge bills due to increased activity on my site and in an effort to ensure Im doing everything I can to keep costs down I started looking at bandwidth issues... what I found was a whole lot of bandwidth theft. Leaching is when you put a picture into a place like this website so it shows the picture to all the visitors... what many dont know is that each time that image is accessed it pulls from my site and I get charged for the bandwidth. While Im more than happy that people enjoy Pvt Murphy I am asking that you get permission to either copy the cartoon you wish to display and put it on your own server or simply put a link that once clicked will take the user to that page on my site (so I have a chance to advertise to them or get the opportunity to have another site user which is how the site continues). Im not picking on this site and believe me its not the first and wont be the last but Im doing my best to offer a little information on why its a bad thing and people should avoid doing it. The new system Im employing for displaying Pvt Murphy is helping me hunt down these instances because as Im sure anyone with access to that link above can see.. you DONT GET the Pvt Murphy you thought you were linking and this is how Im able to also hunt these links. I've submitted this information to one of the admins here but I have not gotten any response and that link continues to have a leached image on it (its in a restricted area of this board). This IS NOT a flame so please take it as the explanation that I intend it to be since I've noticed that many people simply dont understand what leaching images costs.. Ive been doing a similar education campaign on my own site to let the members know that doing it with ANY image from OTHER sites is theft of a sort and should be avoided... the simple answer is a hyperlink... the user can choose to go to the site and the site owner gets the visit they are looking for. Ive seen a few visits from Ar15.com come to Paratrooper.net so there are likely a few visitors to both sites... and I'd like to continue that.. .from what I see Ar15.com is coming along quite well in recent time and Ive very impressed. Ok.. enough preaching for me... its Sunday and I think I'll let the Chaplains use the pulpit.
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 6:13:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 6:26:03 AM EDT
You know there are webhosting packages that offer unlimited bandwidth?
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 6:33:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 6:37:02 AM EDT
Hello... sorry I had to introduce myself like this but oh well... The link to the forum in question is at the top of my original post above and the forum states that its restricted so I cannot access it to see how the image was being used. As for myself.. Im a Gulf War Veteran, US Army 82nd Airborne Division Parachute Rigger and Chapter Officer of the Chicago Chapter of the 82nd Airborne Division Association. My big online claim to fame is my own motley crew of paratroopers at Paratrooper.net that is celebrating 5 years here in 2003 under that domain but the site has been growing and around since about 1996. Im a web developer and run a few sites and to answer the other question YES.. Im aware of unlimited bandwidth hosts but most require ads of some kind or lack the technical enhancements that I require to build and host the sites I work with most (Im a Microsoft based web developer doing work in asp and now progressing into .NET). The disturbing part is that the package I have gives me 40GB of bandwidth and the alarming thing was watching me hit or break that number each month... each MB over my limit causes me to get an additional charge. Im not unwilling to pay for the growth of a site I've been fostering for so long but rather I'd like to pay for the bandwidth 'I' or my users are using and not for hosting images that get used someplace else online with no credit or links back to my site (its the equivalent of ME buying a car, then YOU driving it while not making any payments) I figured that since I signed up to see if I could track down this issue, I'd have a look around. I noted at least one reference to my beloved 82nd Airborne so I'll poke around a bit. Any paratroopers are also encouraged to drop by my site or better still.. join the 82nd Airborne Division Association (Veteran Organization) www.82ndAssociation.org Hooah... and thanks for the welcome.
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 6:39:40 AM EDT
Thanks for tracking it down. The code shouldnt send me a notice if someone just enters that via a browser but either way... a link to my site is fine and let me offer that the way to get to that same image (please pass this along to the individual) is to link to http://www.paratrooper.net/aotw/PvtMurphy/weekly.asp?fileid=120
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 6:43:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Rigger82: Recently, Ive had some pretty huge bills due to increased activity on my site and in an effort to ensure Im doing everything I can to keep costs down I started looking at bandwidth issues... what I found was a whole lot of bandwidth theft. [red]Leaching is when you put a picture into a place like this website so it shows the picture to all the visitors... what many dont know is that each time that image is accessed it pulls from my site and I get charged for the bandwidth.[/red] While Im more than happy that people enjoy Pvt Murphy I am asking that you get permission to either copy the cartoon you wish to display and put it on your own server or simply put a link that once clicked will take the user to that page on my site (so I have a chance to advertise to them or get the opportunity to have another site user which is how the site continues). I've submitted this information to one of the admins here but I have not gotten any response and that link continues to have a leached image on it (its in a restricted area of this board). This IS NOT a flame so please take it as the explanation that I intend it to be since I've noticed that many people simply dont understand what leaching images costs.. Ive been doing a similar education campaign on my own site to let the members know that doing it with ANY image from OTHER sites is theft of a sort and should be avoided... the simple answer is a hyperlink... the user can choose to go to the site and the site owner gets the visit they are looking for. .
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Interesting info. While I don't link off site, I also didn't know you pay for bandwidth, and that linking takes that up. I would think members, and administration here, will be sensitive to your request. Thanks for the post, and hope to see you around the board........
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 6:53:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/18/2003 6:59:54 AM EDT by Mbsk01]
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 6:54:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Rigger82:
Recently, Ive had some pretty huge bills due to increased activity on my site and in an effort to ensure Im doing everything I can to keep costs down I started looking at bandwidth issues... [red]what I found was a whole lot of bandwidth theft.[/red]
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It is MOST defiantly not THEFT!! If you don't want to incur the cost you are free to prevent the picture linking. To come here and accuse the members of theft is ridiculous. I believe you owe us an apology.[pissed]
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 7:09:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/18/2003 7:12:57 AM EDT by llanero]
Originally Posted By RipMeyer:
Originally Posted By Rigger82:
Recently, Ive had some pretty huge bills due to increased activity on my site and in an effort to ensure Im doing everything I can to keep costs down I started looking at bandwidth issues... [red]what I found was a whole lot of bandwidth theft.[/red]
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It is MOST defiantly not THEFT!! If you don't want to incur the cost you are free to prevent the picture linking. To come here and accuse the members of theft is ridiculous. I believe you owe us an apology.[pissed]
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McUZI called it theft and he's a member of MENSA, so he's got to be right. Maybe a quick perusal through this page:[url]http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4210/bandwidth.html[/url] will enlighten ya.
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 7:11:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 7:13:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RipMeyer: It is MOST defiantly not THEFT!! If you don't want to incur the cost you are free to prevent the picture linking. To come here and accuse the members of theft is ridiculous. I believe you owe us an apology.[pissed]
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I found just one of quite a large and growing webmaster pages on the subject which I feel sums it up without pulling too many punches.
[b]What is Stealing Bandwidth?[/b] There are many forms of bandwidth stealing on the web today. However, the bandwidth theft focused on here is image/graphic stealing, and is the bandwidth theft that occurs most. That is when you find an image you like and you are: are too cheap to have server space of your own to use -and/or- are too lazy to upload the image to your own server -and/or- are uneducated about the crime you are committing -or all of the above- Crime? Yes, it is a crime. The person whose site the image is on that you are linking to for the source of the image is paying to display their image on your site. First of all, the image belongs to them, not you. What right do you have to say; "Oh, wouldn't this look great on my site?" and just copy the image URL and use it on your site. You have no right at all. It is not your graphic. Even if it is a very common graphic, for example a bullet or an arrow, and you have seen it on many sites. The operative word here is "on." Get it? It is on a site. That site owner is paying one way or another to have that graphic displayed on the web. Perhaps they pay a monthly fee. Perhaps, they use a 'free' web service, however, they have limits on the amount of bandwidth they are allowed to use. By linking to the graphic, YOU have STOLEN from them one way or another. Secondly, if it is an original graphic that the site owner designed them self, and you link to the source of the graphic to be displayed on your site, you are not only stealing the bandwidth, you are now plagiarizing their work too. It seems a big culprit these days are the "community" type websites (MSN Groups are a fine examples). A person can easily set up a little web site lickety-split - and it's even faster when you link to the source of the graphics you have seen on the web & like rather than uploading them in YOUR space. Not to mention writing to the owner of the graphic and asking their permission first. People do this because it is a fast and cheap way to put something up quickly. In doing this, you are stealing! One other area that is festering boil for bandwidth stealing are the Bulletin Boards that offer the members an ability to have a cutesy little icon next to their name. People remember that cute little picture of a dancing potato they saw on a web site and link to the image source for their member icon. Now, the site owner who's dancing potato graphic you are linking to is looking through their server logs and see 15,048 hits to this one little graphic. "What the heck," they say in disbelief! Or, they get a notice from their 'free' web site host telling them that they have exceeded their allowable bandwidth for the month and their site will be shut off OR they have to pay extra money to keep it up. Bottom line, if you want to use a graphic on your site, you must do these things: write to the site owner of the graphic that you would like to use on your site. •>ASK<•, repeat ASK them if you can use that graphic on your site. If they say yes, then thank them and be certain to thank them in the credits of your site. If they say no, swear a bit under your breath but under no circumstances do you link to the graphic thinking that "I'm not really using it on my site.. since it is not on my server. Leave it alone and go find something else instead. Does this text make you angry or are you grinning ear to ear? If you are feeling angry, you are one of those snatch and grab people who take what they want and say the heck with the rules. If you are smiling ear to ear, you are a site owner who is glad to see the text you have just read. It is in plain English and not sugar coated in any way. We understand this because so many images on this site are linked to and bandwidth stolen daily. A warning:, many site owners can track down and pinpoint exactly where their images are being used on other sites. When that happens, you will be in trouble. If you are new to the web, take the advice of this page as your first lesson and don't forget it. Used in an effort to promote awareness of bandwidth theft... for the original text, please visit www.phenomenalwomen.com/donteventhinkaboutit/
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Link Posted: 5/18/2003 7:19:02 AM EDT
Thanks... Im NOT trying to be confrontational... rather EDUCATIONAL because in chastising my own fellow troopers on Paratrooper.net I found that MOST had never heard or simply didnt understand the issue. Many now are happily cleaning up posts and including links to the original content when they post news stories etc in order to offer some return to the original site/author. Please, Please, Please (note paratroopers dont often do this please part) dont take this as a new guy jumping on your site and throwing around accusations... without being able to get into that area I couldnt do what I would have preferred to do (and continue to do) which is view the post, send a quiet email message with the issue and fix which usually gets things back on track and nobody ever notices. Im a fair guy.. and 95% of the stuff on Paratrooper.net isnt protected... only Pvt Murphy which isnt MY property either.. Mark Baker uploads the image to my site but he owns it and deserves the benefit of a little checking with HIM before using his art. Fair?
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 7:33:00 AM EDT
Welcome! I certainly understand your concerns...who wouldn't, when it hits them in the wallet? But, remember, this IS the internet, and it's pretty much the last frontier of freedom. People often will do things you don't like, like leach bandwidth. I don't condone it, but I've probably done it myself. (just not to you.) Eventually, as bandwidth and memory both get cheaper and cheaper, there will come a day when ISP's charge flat rates and there is no bandwidth limit on accounts as it'll be cheap and plentiful. But we're not there yet. Heck, most users are still suffering in the dark ages torture chamber known as the dial-up modem connection! I'll be more considerate of remote linking in the future. I hadn't really thought about it much before. Instead, I'll do what we all do anyway: If we really like the image, we'll gank it, put a local copy of it into our picture host, and THEN link to the picture host! But then there may be a copyright issue...I suggest in this case that the image include permission to distribute but only in its intact and unedited form, with copyright info intact and NO added watermarks allowed. CJ
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 7:34:47 AM EDT
don;t let anyone link to your site. be done with it TXL
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 7:47:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cmjohnson: Welcome! I certainly understand your concerns...who wouldn't, when it hits them in the wallet? But, remember, this IS the internet, and it's pretty much the last frontier of freedom. People often will do things you don't like, like leach bandwidth. I don't condone it, but I've probably done it myself. (just not to you.) Eventually, as bandwidth and memory both get cheaper and cheaper, there will come a day when ISP's charge flat rates and there is no bandwidth limit on accounts as it'll be cheap and plentiful. But we're not there yet. Heck, most users are still suffering in the dark ages torture chamber known as the dial-up modem connection! I'll be more considerate of remote linking in the future. I hadn't really thought about it much before. Instead, I'll do what we all do anyway: If we really like the image, we'll gank it, put a local copy of it into our picture host, and THEN link to the picture host! But then there may be a copyright issue...I suggest in this case that the image include permission to distribute but only in its intact and unedited form, with copyright info intact and NO added watermarks allowed. CJ
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You're absolutely correct and until very recently I didnt protect anything... was happy people enjoyed the stuff I had on the site and only hoped that they'd tell others about the site (I considered it advertising for the most part). But at some point when the bad outweighs the good, you have to make a decision and after doing some extreme surfing for information about the subject, I found that quite a few sites suffer from this. Most newer or not so traffic'd sites take offense but havent gotten to the levels where it threatens them. I say threatens because if it doesnt tail off... and Im forced to pay more... I might have to do something drastic like limit whats on the site (lowers the worth to my users) or worse, stop being able to offer it. I know... seems like a whole lot of talk over what is one Pvt Murphy here at ar15.com but each time it gets hit I get a note and I know that even in that protected area, its getting traffic. Imagine the links happening to many of the icons and avatars that I have made available for use on MY site that are being used on other forums (i havent gotten to those yet). Trust me... it adds up quick.
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 7:50:19 AM EDT
Darn!! [:O] Learn something here every day! Welcome aboard Rigger82 – hope you stay a while! [beer]
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 7:51:31 AM EDT
Rigger82, You really need to talk to your ISP and have them set a hard limit on the amount of bandwidth you can use. change your service plan so you use only XXX Kbps or Mbps at any given time. This way you will not end up getting huge unexpected bills at the end of each month. Now if you ISP doesn't offer a flat rate service agreement, you need to find a new ISP fast. You are getting ripped off.
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 7:58:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DigDug: Rigger82, You really need to talk to your ISP and have them set a hard limit on the amount of bandwidth you can use. change your service plan so you use only XXX Kbps or Mbps at any given time. This way you will not end up getting huge unexpected bills at the end of each month. Now if you ISP doesn't offer a flat rate service agreement, you need to find a new ISP fast. You are getting ripped off.
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My host is exceptional... Due to the immenense paratrooper traffic and hooah users I am on what they call a semi-dedicated account. The amount of bandwidth that is afforded to me is 40GB per month... at 50% and 90% of this I get an automated reminder in order to keep me from being totally suprised but in no way to I want the note saying "THIS SITE HAS EXCEEDED ITS BANDWIDTH" Heck, the troopers routinely send in donations to help me cover the costs and its not fair to them as well for having to contribute to other websites benefit of such image linking. Appreciate your thoughts, but I assure you... Im on a host that really kicks ass. www.crystaltech.com
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 8:03:08 AM EDT
DigDug, you are confusing "webhoster" with "internet service provider".
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 8:04:11 AM EDT
Rigger82, No, your hosting is not good. You need to change to a plan that limits your throughput RATE not the total for the month. If you were to get popular for some reason...TV spot or something, you would go bankrupt from the bill at the end of the month. You need to tell your ISP that you want a RATE limit account, not a total bandwidth for the month. If they say they can't or won't do it, you need to change ISP's immediately. I know....I run an ISP. Your ISP has the cards shuffled in their favor.
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 8:07:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DigDug: Rigger82, No, your hosting is not good. You need to change to a plan that limits your throughput RATE not the total for the month. If you were to get popular for some reason...TV spot or something, you would go bankrupt from the bill at the end of the month. You need to tell your ISP that you want a RATE limit account, not a total bandwidth for the month. If they say they can't or won't do it, you need to change ISP's immediately. I know....I run an ISP. Your ISP has the cards shuffled in their favor.
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Not talking about my connection to the internet... rather the Web Hosting. I've never seen a host that throttles like you're suggesting and Ive been hosting websites since 1995
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 8:08:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Kar98: DigDug, you are confusing "webhoster" with "internet service provider".
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Kar98, I run both, so no I am not confusing anything. The webhoster may or may not be an ISP but has to have one to connect to the internet. The ISP should be able to limit bandwidth to the web site, if the webhoster can't. Understand?
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 8:11:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/18/2003 8:13:12 AM EDT by DigDug]
Originally Posted By Rigger82:
Originally Posted By DigDug: Rigger82, No, your hosting is not good. You need to change to a plan that limits your throughput RATE not the total for the month. If you were to get popular for some reason...TV spot or something, you would go bankrupt from the bill at the end of the month. You need to tell your ISP that you want a RATE limit account, not a total bandwidth for the month. If they say they can't or won't do it, you need to change ISP's immediately. I know....I run an ISP. Your ISP has the cards shuffled in their favor.
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Not talking about my connection to the internet... rather the Web Hosting. I've never seen a host that throttles like you're suggesting and Ive been hosting websites since 1995
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I've been owning and running ISP and web hosting services since 1994, and we do it all the time. It is the only way to go. Most ISPs and hosting services are too lazy or don't want to spend the money to provide the service to their customers. Tell your hosting/ISP service you want 512Kbps peak rate (or whatever you think you might need) to the site and want to pay a flat rate for it. See what they say.
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 8:12:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DigDug:
Originally Posted By Kar98: DigDug, you are confusing "webhoster" with "internet service provider".
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Kar98, I run both, so no I am not confusing anything. The webhoster may or may not be an ISP but has to have one to connect to the internet. The ISP should be able to limit bandwidth to the web site, if the webhoster can't. Understand?
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Apparently Im missing something or not fully understanding. Could you provide a link to a host that provides such a service?
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 8:19:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/18/2003 8:23:49 AM EDT by DigDug]
Rigger82, I don't get involved with pricing at all, but we offer hosting and colocation services where the customer thinks they may have a pretty high demand. They pay for a certain peak bandwidth with a flat rate. Our equipment can then limit the throughput to the colocation server or web site to a maximum of whatever they are paying for. That way if the customer needs more bandwidth, they don't get suprised by a huge bill. They just tell us to turn up their limit, and they know exactly what they are going to pay for each month.
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 8:37:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 8:59:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Rigger82: You're absolutely correct and until very recently I didnt protect anything... was happy people enjoyed the stuff I had on the site and only hoped that they'd tell others about the site (I considered it advertising for the most part). But at some point when the bad outweighs the good, you have to make a decision and after doing some extreme surfing for information about the subject, I found that quite a few sites suffer from this. Most newer or not so traffic'd sites take offense but havent gotten to the levels where it threatens them. I say threatens because if it doesnt tail off... and Im forced to pay more... I might have to do something drastic like limit whats on the site (lowers the worth to my users) or worse, stop being able to offer it. I know... seems like a whole lot of talk over what is one Pvt Murphy here at ar15.com but each time it gets hit I get a note and I know that even in that protected area, its getting traffic. Imagine the links happening to many of the icons and avatars that I have made available for use on MY site that are being used on other forums (i havent gotten to those yet). Trust me... it adds up quick.
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Rigger, I'm a mid-50's vet, like others here. I've only been on the net since '98. I never heard of any of this stuff, (linking to web site images), and I've never done it. I host photos here, but thought that was just how it is done. I guess my point is, and based on your experience with guys on your site, (looks good btw), that education is a big part of the solution. Any way, thanks for the info... [b]Hi GB!![/b], haven't seen ya around, good to see you!
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 9:17:36 AM EDT
I find education is a more effective than any other. But it only works with those willing to BE educated. Those that dontwishto hear anything but what they feel they already "know" can be quite resistant. Ive found most of my guys are pretty good about getting the idea and modifying the way they do things... thats all I can really ask for. Ive been running the site primarily out of my pocket for years and I dont want the site to go away for something like this. Im glad to see such a good group here.. ive watched this site over time and its really coming into its own.
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 9:20:40 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 9:32:11 AM EDT
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