Although this question was directed at Silence I'll say that I don't call my attourney for such thing's, I however check the county ordinances before preforming work on the exterior of my house or the property it's on.[;)]

Why do you say that?  [;d]

Call my attorney? nope, but I have a fairly good working knowledge of what I can and cannot do and stay within the regualtions set forth by my area and the EPA.



Nope, but then I know what my local ordinances are, and what the rules are for my neighborhood association.  



Nope, but then I know them fairly well (worked in construction, general contracting, and for an architect during college), and I would suggest anyone not familiar with them to study them.  because a problem there can bite you an the ass real damn fast.



True, but it is better to trust YOUR agents, than to trust someone attempting to sell you something.



True, and we hire lawyers to argue for us when our/their interpretation of the laws and regualtions disagree with someone else's, or with someone else's lawyer's, interpretation of the laws and regulations.

and in the end it is YOUR responsibility to have the best and most accurate interpetations of the laws as possible.

Thats a pretty lame statement. I'll agree that turning him in or even getting involved if the basis was totally on the cost would be wrong. However, that is not the real issue. The dealer knowingly and purposefully put the buyer in legal peril by his actions. That is the issue. If the buyer had known and agreed that this was ok, then he assumes the risk, but forcing the risk upon someone else is not right. Why did the seller do this? So that he could make a $1300 profit! If this were not the case, then he could have sold the guy a legal post-pan for $2100. Using your reasoning, it would be ok for anyone to sell anything they wanted and it would be up incumbent upon the buyer to make sure it was legal.



Completely irrelevant to the discussion. The buyer was not given the opportunity to make this decision himself. The dealer made it for him.



As it applies to this situation, yes. If a dealer sold a completely illegal black rifle, knowing it was banned to a buyer who did not know, then yes.



Although I agree with your statement, it is again, completely unrelated to the topic under discussion. You state that the only thing that should be used to judge is a persons actions, yet you seem to approve of the action of the dealer in taking this 'personal action' away from the buyer. You can't have it both ways. You are advocating allowing one person to make the decision for another. Your stance is no different than that of the anti's who want to make the decisions about what is appropriate for gun owners.

Caveat emptor my ass.

A person should have a reasonable expectation of doing business with a "dealer" and walking out of there with a legal firearm and be clean under the law in all respects.

If not the dealer is a crook ,and that goes for anything,not just firearms.

Oh for christ sakes, don't try and get all high and mighty with your "and you never will" get it crap.


Even you basicly admit that informing the guy that what he was purchasing was illegal, was the a good thing to do.

Which is pretty much what I was saying to begin with.

Agreed that if the person then chooses to go through with it no problem.

But it sounds like even after he spoke up about it, the dealer was even more full of shit about it and just reconfigured it to be "illegal" in a different way. Even told the guy it was all "Colt"

Why do you have this urge to argue away such shithead behaviour by arguing that the law is unjust and that the buyer is "ignorant".


It still doesn't make the seller any less of an asshole.


My arguement about this stems only from the fact of someone getting ripped off.

Period.

So don't try and get all "I'm more 2nd than you, and you don't get it". That's bullshit and you know it.


Like I said, I've been down that road, and going to the feds never even crossed my mind.

If that's the case, I've got no problem. More power to all those involved.

But from the info it is hard to tell. It kind of sounded to me like the buyer was told it was legal by the dealer, and chose to believe him over someone else. Which isn't so suprising.

[red]Wrong, the dealer knowingly and purposefully sold him the illegaly configured weapon, the buyer allowed himself to be put in that situation by not making any effort to know the most basic gun law's.  Blaming the dealer for the entire situation is wrong. [/red]




[red]Wrong again, the dealer didn't force anything on the ignorent buyer, he offered and due to the buyers ignorence, the buyer put himself a bad situation (remember, [b]YOU[/b] have to take responsibility for [b]YOUR[/b] action's, sure the dealear offered him an illegally formated rifle, but if buyer had done even the most simplest of homework on the issue he would have seen the rifle was not in the proper post-ban config and therefore, refused to buy it from the crooked dealer.[/red]





[red]Wrong again, the buyer was given the choice, but, because of the lack of effort on his part, made a bad decision to buy the rifle.[/red]  



[red]The dealer didn't force him to buy it.[/red]

I've verifired this dealer's name, I can send an IM message if you want to know his name.

It bothers me more that the Dealer ripped the guy off by charging him 3 times what he should have for the weapon. Pre/Post Legal/Illegal... I don't really give a fock. I think they should ALL be legal, and if someone wants to buy one illegaly configured that's his business.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that the buyer in the original post was a newbie ( and from the description, he was).
Let's assume the seller has a bonified FFL and is a LICENSED gun dealer, this also from the "lots of AR stuff" description.

Now, do you not hold the seller to a higher standard of knowing what is correct and legal for purchase, especially when dealing with inexperienced AR purchasers?

There are an increasing number of people joining the ranks of gun ownership every day. Not everyone has grown up with guns since they dropped out of momma. For some, an AR might even be their very first firearm, for others this might have been their very first AR purchase.

Since there are a bazillion different configurations of the "Black Rifle", do you not think that a dealer/FFL has the moral as well as legal responsibility to assist the unknowing AR buyer with selecting the proper gun configuration...so at the very least, the buyer will be happy with the purchase and join the ranks of safe gun ownership?  For those who say "No"...then what's the difference if a truck dealer sells a Peterbilt to a 15yr old with a learner's permit. Happy motoring.

You guy's are forgetting there may be a good chance that AR newbie,or one just like him, could end up in the shooting station next to you at the range...and the word "Oops" does very little for sucking chest wounds.

There ARE gun laws on the books, some bad, some good. Either way we have to abide by them until one of you becomes king, and I don't see that happening anytime soon. The priviledge of having an FFL means you WILL be held to a higher standard because you ARE supposed to be up to date on current gun laws.

My Opinion, AR15USA did that buyer a huge damn favor. At least he might be able to get some of his money back from that greedy dealer, and he might avoid a huge fine,loss of firearm and/or jailtime courtesy of the BATF.

If he doesn't want to follow the firearms laws he shouldn't be an FFL dealer.  He should be selling guns in the back alley without an FFL.

Since he's rebelling against the unjust system why the hell does he need a license?

I hate scumbags!

I was there today also, pretty sure of whom that was. We should all (in Houston) make a point of stopping by this guy’s table, looking at his stuff and be prepared to do the same thing AR15USA did. Better we use pear pressure to fix this guys illegal selling habits. Better us than the ‘Action News’ team.

Now if the customer had bought that AR in legal pieces and put it together himself that would be different, until that news team get a hold of it.
SSD

No Sniper you are wrong. Intelligence is the ability to comprehend. Ignorance is the lack of knowledge or education. Knowledge is the psychological result of learning and reasoning.
Get it?

[b][red]I Know Who It Is!!![/b][/red]


TS

At least I'm pretty sure...

Legal resident.  Not citizen.  

Permanent legal resident status and you can buy a gun.  Some state laws are more restrictive.  But even in Illinois a green card holder can get a FOID card.

until this stupid law sunsets,we should do all we can to help other gunowners out that don't know the law's,as stupid as they may be,concerning high cap pistol grip sporting weapons.
you did the right thing by letting the new buyer know how much trouble his new weapon will be how how he got ripped off.
i wish someone had been around to keep me from buying an 1800 dollar postban from a dealer(stealer) back in 96.
josam

$2100 for an illegal post-ban gun.  What a rip off.  Sounds like the buyer didn't know anything about what he was buying.  Dealers like this are the ones to stay away from.  Wonder how many other unsuspecting buyers he has ripped off.  I agree with dropping a dime on this scum.

Up here in the Northwest, we police our own. I imagine, it's the same in Texas. Go back to the show today, and tell the promoter your story. The dealer is a thief, and shouldn't be allowed in the show...

Heh, heh, ya, and I got a year less of that!!! [:D]

Actually, I'm fairly well known in the OR gun community after running that city boycott 5 years ago.... Bad dealers do us all a dis-service, [red]ir[/red]regardless([:D]) of the law. I know Ken Glass up here in OR, he's the largest promoter in the area, and if a dealer at his show was pulling that shit, he'd be out on his ear!! Gives us all a bad name.

That's a troll line if I ever heard one.
[size=5][red][b]WTF is wrong with you?[/b][/red][/size=5]
That dealer put that guy in harms way of being arrested  (true the customer is an idiot) and going to fucking jail, he did it out of greed ,not because of some higher moral ground because he doesn't beileve in the AWB.

I think it was just descriptive detail - in Texas, "Mexican" often means someone of Mexican descent, especially when used colloquially.  You usually can't tell someone's citizenship by looking at them.  If you struck up a conversation with them, you could probably figure it out eventually.

FYI, non-citizens who are permanent resident aliens (legal immigrants) can buy and possess firearms just like citizens, with the one restriction that they have to live in their state of residence for 3 months before buying a firearm.  Our good friend DK-Prof and some others on this board are in this situation.  Some states (not including Texas) restrict CCW permits to US citizens only.

Non-citizens who are legal visitors (legally referred to as non-immigrant aliens) can buy and possess firearms if they possess a hunting license, subject to the 3 month restriction noted above.

Illegal aliens cannot buy or possess any firearms for any reason.