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Posted: 5/12/2016 5:16:30 PM EDT
Haven't had one of these threads in a while. Three teens growing up in West Memphis Arkansas during the early to mid 90's that were tried and convicted for killing three children. These guys were outsiders who dressed in black, listened to heavy metal music, and had an interest in the occult, all in a very religious area. The "ring leader" Damien Echols was on death row many times, and the other two had life sentences.
They were free'd in 2011 by an Alford plea with the help of new DNA evidence that didn't link any of them to the murders. What say the hive? Either way, they are some interesting characters. 
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Posted: 5/12/2016 5:20:24 PM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 5/12/2016 5:23:00 PM EDT
[#2]
Very probably innocent.
Very definitely dumbasses. |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 5:30:57 PM EDT
[#3]
Stupid kids being stupid teens took the wrap for that stepdad.
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Posted: 5/12/2016 5:34:28 PM EDT
[#4]
One of the stepdads did it.
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Posted: 5/12/2016 5:35:08 PM EDT
[#5]
Guilty.
Judging by your user name and location are you into the occult or friends with Damien? |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 5:36:34 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One of the stepdads did it. |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 5:39:44 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One of the stepdads did it. Terry Hobbs, Mark Byers. I think it was one of them. |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 10:43:07 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Very probably innocent. Very definitely dumbasses. I'm going with this and the step father being guilty. |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 10:49:04 PM EDT
[#9]
Are the McMartin people out of jail yet?
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 11:10:54 PM EDT
[#10]
Lived near there back then.
They are shitbag human beings who were low IQ morons that wanted to play games with the justice system when facing murder charges...things like refusing to believe the court had authority over you...refusing to participate in your defense... Having said that, the investigative skills back then were not great. The Department in question is in a poor part of a poor state with limited resources, training, and experience in cases like this. It was a horrible crime that shocked the area. Nothing like that had ever happened there, so it drew major media and public attention which didn't help. It was a cluster. The 3 guys were shitbags. Who knows if they did it or not. It isn't beyond the realm of possibility that they did it...but the department in question wasn't well suited to investigate it and the tech we have now to look at blood and whatnot, didn't exist then. I have very little sympathy for them overall. |
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Posted: 5/12/2016 11:14:48 PM EDT
[#11]
It's pretty hard to look past the "Satanic Panic" elephant in the room that clouded the case. Couple that with a lackluster investigation and a coerced confession and a sprinkling of a biased judge and it's not hard to see how they are convicted.
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Posted: 5/13/2016 1:28:25 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lived near there back then. They are shitbag human beings who were low IQ morons that wanted to play games with the justice system when facing murder charges...things like refusing to believe the court had authority over you...refusing to participate in your defense... Having said that, the investigative skills back then were not great. The Department in question is in a poor part of a poor state with limited resources, training, and experience in cases like this. It was a horrible crime that shocked the area. Nothing like that had ever happened there, so it drew major media and public attention which didn't help. It was a cluster. The 3 guys were shitbags. Who knows if they did it or not. It isn't beyond the realm of possibility that they did it...but the department in question wasn't well suited to investigate it and the tech we have now to look at blood and whatnot, didn't exist then. I have very little sympathy for them overall. Beyond the realm of possibility with no DNA link to the crime scene? So the fact that these guys were in jail for 17 years, one being on death row, and wrongly convicted...and no sympathy? Sure they didn't help their cause at all, but they were young dumb teenagers at that point. |
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Posted: 5/13/2016 1:30:41 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Beyond the realm of possibility with no DNA link to the crime scene? So the fact that these guys were in jail for 17 years, one being on death row, and wrongly convicted...and no sympathy? Sure they didn't help their cause at all, but they were young dumb teenagers at that point. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Lived near there back then. They are shitbag human beings who were low IQ morons that wanted to play games with the justice system when facing murder charges...things like refusing to believe the court had authority over you...refusing to participate in your defense... Having said that, the investigative skills back then were not great. The Department in question is in a poor part of a poor state with limited resources, training, and experience in cases like this. It was a horrible crime that shocked the area. Nothing like that had ever happened there, so it drew major media and public attention which didn't help. It was a cluster. The 3 guys were shitbags. Who knows if they did it or not. It isn't beyond the realm of possibility that they did it...but the department in question wasn't well suited to investigate it and the tech we have now to look at blood and whatnot, didn't exist then. I have very little sympathy for them overall. Beyond the realm of possibility with no DNA link to the crime scene? So the fact that these guys were in jail for 17 years, one being on death row, and wrongly convicted...and no sympathy? Sure they didn't help their cause at all, but they were young dumb teenagers at that point. He probably does think that being a shitbag with a low IQ is an executable offense and that if they were charged it means they were guilty of something. |
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Posted: 5/13/2016 1:37:25 PM EDT
[#14]
West Memphis had the biggest trailer park I have ever seen.
It looked like the bug city in District 9. |
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Posted: 5/13/2016 1:44:24 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lived near there back then. They are shitbag human beings who were low IQ morons that wanted to play games with the justice system when facing murder charges...things like refusing to believe the court had authority over you...refusing to participate in your defense... Having said that, the investigative skills back then were not great. The Department in question is in a poor part of a poor state with limited resources, training, and experience in cases like this. It was a horrible crime that shocked the area. Nothing like that had ever happened there, so it drew major media and public attention which didn't help. It was a cluster. The 3 guys were shitbags. Who knows if they did it or not. It isn't beyond the realm of possibility that they did it...but the department in question wasn't well suited to investigate it and the tech we have now to look at blood and whatnot, didn't exist then. I have very little sympathy for them overall. We'll just gloss over the investigative blunders, mishandling of evidence, dragging a completely nonsensical and factual-error riddled "confession" out of a minor with mental disabilities, outright misconduct, and all the other extremely well-documented fuckups and malicious stupidity the police department displayed. Three falsely accused nonconformist minors showed Contempt Of Cop, so fuck 'em, they're "probably guilty". You really are a gem... polished coprolite. |
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Posted: 5/13/2016 1:44:57 PM EDT
[#16]
Tag
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Posted: 5/13/2016 2:15:45 PM EDT
[#17]
Most likely innocent, got fucked over, real perp never caught.
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Posted: 5/13/2016 3:09:53 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We'll just gloss over the investigative blunders, mishandling of evidence, dragging a completely nonsensical and factual-error riddled "confession" out of a minor with mental disabilities, outright misconduct, and all the other extremely well-documented fuckups and malicious stupidity the police department displayed. Three falsely accused nonconformist minors showed Contempt Of Cop, so fuck 'em, they're "probably guilty". You really are a gem... polished coprolite. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Lived near there back then. They are shitbag human beings who were low IQ morons that wanted to play games with the justice system when facing murder charges...things like refusing to believe the court had authority over you...refusing to participate in your defense... Having said that, the investigative skills back then were not great. The Department in question is in a poor part of a poor state with limited resources, training, and experience in cases like this. It was a horrible crime that shocked the area. Nothing like that had ever happened there, so it drew major media and public attention which didn't help. It was a cluster. The 3 guys were shitbags. Who knows if they did it or not. It isn't beyond the realm of possibility that they did it...but the department in question wasn't well suited to investigate it and the tech we have now to look at blood and whatnot, didn't exist then. I have very little sympathy for them overall. We'll just gloss over the investigative blunders, mishandling of evidence, dragging a completely nonsensical and factual-error riddled "confession" out of a minor with mental disabilities, outright misconduct, and all the other extremely well-documented fuckups and malicious stupidity the police department displayed. Three falsely accused nonconformist minors showed Contempt Of Cop, so fuck 'em, they're "probably guilty". You really are a gem... polished coprolite. I don't think he's saying what you think he's saying. He doesn't think they did it but thinks it could be possible however unlikely. He's simply willing to recognize that at the time those three boys were shit bags. Which is true. But that's not a convictable crime. But it's also true that those three boys were their own worst enemies during the investigation. I think they were all just so naive and low iq that they didn't fully realize they were playing with fire and on the verge of being locked away or executed. For that he has little sympathy for them. I, myself, understand his view point but mine is a bit different. I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell they did it and I do have sympathy for them. I too was a dumb kid once (though nothing on their scale) and it would seem to me that the investigative process took advantage of three idiots and ruined their lives while letting the real killer go. Even when all the errors and lack of evidence were brought to light their conviction wasn't really overturned. They simply got off on a plea bargain due to Alford pleas. Freedom is freedom but that's a pretty sour way to get it. I also doubt FedDC is old enough to have fozzilized yet. |
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Posted: 5/13/2016 3:13:00 PM EDT
[#19]
I was in high school in Jonesboro. We would skip school and go watch them cart the kids in/out of court. It was something else to see in person.
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Posted: 5/13/2016 4:16:20 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are the McMartin people out of jail yet? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are the McMartin people out of jail yet? Yes. In 1990, after three years of testimony and nine weeks of deliberation by the jury, Peggy McMartin Buckey was acquitted on all counts.[9] Ray Buckey was cleared on 52 of 65 counts, and freed on bail after more than five years in jail.
Nine of 11 jurors at a press conference following the trial stated that they believed the children had been molested but the evidence did not allow them to state who had committed the abuse beyond a reasonable doubt. Eleven out of the thirteen jurors who remained by the end of the trial voted to acquit Buckey of the charges; the refusal of the remaining two to vote for a not guilty verdict resulted in the deadlock. The media overwhelmingly focused on the two jurors who voted guilty at the expense of those who believed Buckey was not guilty. Buckey was retried later on six of the 13 counts, which produced another hung jury. The prosecution then gave up trying to obtain a conviction, and the case was closed with all charges against Ray Buckey dismissed. He had been jailed for five years without ever being convicted of any wrongdoing The trial lasted seven years and cost $15 million, the longest and most expensive criminal case in the history of the United States legal system, and ultimately resulted in no convictions |
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Posted: 5/13/2016 4:57:47 PM EDT
[#21]
One of the most damning pieces of evidence that I can't wrap my head around not being forefront is the Bojangles incident.
Bojangles is a fast food restaurant three quarters of a mile where the kids were murdered. On the night of the kids disappearance the police received a call from the establishment that there was a black male, muddied, disoriented, and bleeding that lodged himself in the womens rest room. Blood and feces covered the entire bathroom and a toilet paper role was soaked in blood. Before police got there the bleeding man left. I think they took blood samples for the scene but didn't test them. The next day the entire bathroom was cleaned. |
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Posted: 5/13/2016 4:58:31 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Are the McMartin people out of jail yet? Yes. In 1990, after three years of testimony and nine weeks of deliberation by the jury, Peggy McMartin Buckey was acquitted on all counts.[9] Ray Buckey was cleared on 52 of 65 counts, and freed on bail after more than five years in jail. Nine of 11 jurors at a press conference following the trial stated that they believed the children had been molested but the evidence did not allow them to state who had committed the abuse beyond a reasonable doubt. Eleven out of the thirteen jurors who remained by the end of the trial voted to acquit Buckey of the charges; the refusal of the remaining two to vote for a not guilty verdict resulted in the deadlock. The media overwhelmingly focused on the two jurors who voted guilty at the expense of those who believed Buckey was not guilty. Buckey was retried later on six of the 13 counts, which produced another hung jury. The prosecution then gave up trying to obtain a conviction, and the case was closed with all charges against Ray Buckey dismissed. He had been jailed for five years without ever being convicted of any wrongdoing The trial lasted seven years and cost $15 million, the longest and most expensive criminal case in the history of the United States legal system, and ultimately resulted in no convictions |
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Posted: 5/13/2016 4:59:58 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Haven't had one of these threads in a while. Three teens growing up in West Memphis Arkansas during the early to mid 90's that were tried and convicted for killing three children. These guys were outsiders who dressed in black, listened to heavy metal music, and had an interest in the occult, all in a very religious area. The "ring leader" Damien Echols was on death row many times, and the other two had life sentences. They were free'd in 2011 by an Alford plea with the help of new DNA evidence that didn't link any of them to the murders. What say the hive? Either way, they are some interesting characters. https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/e8/83/92/e88392e3a3af05ae196ac8fbcb50a0c3.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/609108059672207360/Sjt-098M.jpg Not a murderer, but that Damien dude is a weird creepy looking fucker |
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Posted: 5/13/2016 5:05:55 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One of the most damning pieces of evidence that I can't wrap my head around not being forefront is the Bojangles incident. Bojangles is a fast food restaurant three quarters of a mile where the kids were murdered. On the night of the kids disappearance the police received a call from the establishment that there was a black male, muddied, disoriented, and bleeding that lodged himself in the womens rest room. Blood and feces covered the entire bathroom and a toilet paper role was soaked in blood. Before police got there the bleeding man left. I think they took blood samples for the scene but didn't test them. The next day the entire bathroom was cleaned. I've always wondered about that too. |
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Posted: 5/13/2016 5:26:36 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not a murderer, but that Damien dude is a weird creepy looking fucker Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Haven't had one of these threads in a while. Three teens growing up in West Memphis Arkansas during the early to mid 90's that were tried and convicted for killing three children. These guys were outsiders who dressed in black, listened to heavy metal music, and had an interest in the occult, all in a very religious area. The "ring leader" Damien Echols was on death row many times, and the other two had life sentences. They were free'd in 2011 by an Alford plea with the help of new DNA evidence that didn't link any of them to the murders. What say the hive? Either way, they are some interesting characters. https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/e8/83/92/e88392e3a3af05ae196ac8fbcb50a0c3.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/609108059672207360/Sjt-098M.jpg Not a murderer, but that Damien dude is a weird creepy looking fucker You gotta feel bad for him. In solitary for almost 17 years. I think his eyes actually died on him which is why he needs to wear those dark glasses now. But yea he is a weird dude, but what's weird to us may be normal for him. I know he moved to Salem after he got out because he felt more at home there with everything about the Salem Witch Trials. |
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Posted: 5/13/2016 5:43:01 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've always wondered about that too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
One of the most damning pieces of evidence that I can't wrap my head around not being forefront is the Bojangles incident. Bojangles is a fast food restaurant three quarters of a mile where the kids were murdered. On the night of the kids disappearance the police received a call from the establishment that there was a black male, muddied, disoriented, and bleeding that lodged himself in the womens rest room. Blood and feces covered the entire bathroom and a toilet paper role was soaked in blood. Before police got there the bleeding man left. I think they took blood samples for the scene but didn't test them. The next day the entire bathroom was cleaned. I've always wondered about that too. That's actually not uncommon with late stage alcoholics - internal bleeding, loss of bowel control. |
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Posted: 5/13/2016 5:45:42 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Something that ought to scare the shit out of anyone who's ever read the actual allegations made. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Are the McMartin people out of jail yet? Yes. In 1990, after three years of testimony and nine weeks of deliberation by the jury, Peggy McMartin Buckey was acquitted on all counts.[9] Ray Buckey was cleared on 52 of 65 counts, and freed on bail after more than five years in jail.
Nine of 11 jurors at a press conference following the trial stated that they believed the children had been molested but the evidence did not allow them to state who had committed the abuse beyond a reasonable doubt. Eleven out of the thirteen jurors who remained by the end of the trial voted to acquit Buckey of the charges; the refusal of the remaining two to vote for a not guilty verdict resulted in the deadlock. The media overwhelmingly focused on the two jurors who voted guilty at the expense of those who believed Buckey was not guilty. Buckey was retried later on six of the 13 counts, which produced another hung jury. The prosecution then gave up trying to obtain a conviction, and the case was closed with all charges against Ray Buckey dismissed. He had been jailed for five years without ever being convicted of any wrongdoing The trial lasted seven years and cost $15 million, the longest and most expensive criminal case in the history of the United States legal system, and ultimately resulted in no convictions I'm hoping that the current rage for "gender fluidity" goes the same way as "recovered memories" - lots of attention being given, people getting in the news, pushback, mental health establishment goes "Oh, nevermind", and the perpetrators go on to the next fad, smugly leaving destroyed people in their wake. |
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Posted: 5/13/2016 6:10:39 PM EDT
[#28]
Wasn't Chuck Norris even accused by one of the children? Secret tunnels accessed only by being flushed down the toilet. Witches flying around the room, and all sorts of other incredible testimony. None of this sent up red flags apparently.
They had it in for McMartin/Buckey |
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Posted: 5/13/2016 6:17:06 PM EDT
[#29]
I lived in Blytheville, AR at the time. I was just a few years younger than them. They were guilty of contempt of Baptist. The damn holy-rollers ran the area and didn't like rock or metal music. I was a metal-head myself.
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Posted: 5/13/2016 6:26:25 PM EDT
[#30]
There is a series of documentaries on them called Paradise Lost. They were interesting and
at the same time.
eta: Paradise Lost |
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Posted: 5/13/2016 7:51:31 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He probably does think that being a shitbag with a low IQ is an executable offense and that if they were charged it means they were guilty of something. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Lived near there back then. They are shitbag human beings who were low IQ morons that wanted to play games with the justice system when facing murder charges...things like refusing to believe the court had authority over you...refusing to participate in your defense... Having said that, the investigative skills back then were not great. The Department in question is in a poor part of a poor state with limited resources, training, and experience in cases like this. It was a horrible crime that shocked the area. Nothing like that had ever happened there, so it drew major media and public attention which didn't help. It was a cluster. The 3 guys were shitbags. Who knows if they did it or not. It isn't beyond the realm of possibility that they did it...but the department in question wasn't well suited to investigate it and the tech we have now to look at blood and whatnot, didn't exist then. I have very little sympathy for them overall. Beyond the realm of possibility with no DNA link to the crime scene? So the fact that these guys were in jail for 17 years, one being on death row, and wrongly convicted...and no sympathy? Sure they didn't help their cause at all, but they were young dumb teenagers at that point. He probably does think that being a shitbag with a low IQ is an executable offense and that if they were charged it means they were guilty of something. Go study the case. The suspects flipped off the judge and actually believed that their Wiccan God or whatever would swoop in and slay the courtroom. They did crazy shit like recite "satanic" rituals while in custody...when facing a case where they were believed to have ritualistically murdered kids. They actively worked to ensure their own convictions. Literally...multiple lawyers tried to defend them for free and they refused. This was a crappy poor town in Arkansas. It happened long before CSI was even a thing. Don't expect modern crime scene processing in that day and age and on that budget. It isn't reality. |
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Posted: 5/13/2016 8:02:44 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I lived in Blytheville, AR at the time. I was just a few years younger than them. They were guilty of contempt of Baptist. The damn holy-rollers ran the area and didn't like rock or metal music. I was a metal-head myself. I lived in blytheville then too! |
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Posted: 5/13/2016 8:10:03 PM EDT
[#33]
I was born in W Memphis (1964) , thank God my parents got me the fuck outta there early in my young life because it was a shithole back then and still a shithole today !
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Posted: 5/13/2016 8:35:54 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wasn't Chuck Norris even accused by one of the children? Secret tunnels accessed only by being flushed down the toilet. Witches flying around the room, and all sorts of other incredible testimony. None of this sent up red flags apparently.
They had it in for McMartin/Buckey No, it was the Salem Witch Trials, with child psychiatrists playing Cotton Mather. They would interview the children, and then report out what the kids said happened to them. But since the interviews were covered under patient privilege, their statements couldn't be challenged. The kids could not testify because confronting their abusers would damage them more. No other psychiatrists were allowed to examine them. And when the psychiatrists were cross examined they basically clammed up,citing privacy. Not long after that some research came out that showed that suppressed memories were wholly unreliable. Researchers could implant completely false memories in people, consistently. And they did it using the established techniques of extracting "suppressed" memories. The psychiatrists would ask leading questions, and when they didn't get the answer they wanted to hear, they would repeat the question. Then when the kid changed their answer, the grown up would get really excited and ask then more about it. The kids quickly learned what the grown ups wanted to hear and their imagination took over. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 5/13/2016 8:46:47 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Guilty. Judging by your user name and location are you into the occult or friends with Damien? They were guilty of being guilty looking. Kind of. Which was enough to convict, at the time. It was little boys, molested and murdered. SOMEBODY had to pay! At the time, I was convinced they were guilty. They didn't do it. 
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Posted: 5/13/2016 8:49:10 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
West Memphis had the biggest trailer park I have ever seen. It looked like the bug city in District 9. West Memphis is pretty much a huge trailer park and semi parking lot. Plus the Dog Track. Don't forget THAT! |
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Posted: 5/15/2016 8:11:40 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I lived in blytheville then too! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I lived in Blytheville, AR at the time. I was just a few years younger than them. They were guilty of contempt of Baptist. The damn holy-rollers ran the area and didn't like rock or metal music. I was a metal-head myself. I lived in blytheville then too! Where are you girls living at now? |
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