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Posted: 5/16/2003 2:51:39 AM EDT
Well do yah punk?
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 3:22:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By snipley: Well do yah punk?
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Yeah, I do. Shotshell powder is my favorite accelerant as it is so much drier than the other smokeless powders. I pour it on the ground in the local gun store and light it up. Makes for a pretty cool dry fire.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 3:25:33 AM EDT
lol, funny guy lol.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 5:51:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By snipley: Well do yah punk?
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Why not?
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 6:22:05 AM EDT
Nah. Seems disrespectful to the gun/store owner IMO. I wouldn't want someone dry firing my goods. Cope
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 6:25:40 AM EDT
Dry fire away! It doesn't hurt the firearm and it gives you the opportunity to evaluate the trigger. It is perfectly acceptable at my store.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 6:26:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 6:27:03 AM EDT
I dry fire the hell out of my guns. When I go to buy a weapon I like to get a feel for the trigger. I always ask first if it's ok to do so and most will let me. If you're able to pick from more than one, why not get the one that has the best trigger pull? You can always take along the appropriate snap-cap if the shop is concerned about potential firing pin wear or damage.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 6:40:07 AM EDT
I like the guy who dry fires a couple of times and then points it at his companion and dry fires a couple more times.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 6:59:19 AM EDT
When I was selling guns, we had this Para Ordnance that kept breaking, and we kept sending it back to PO to get it fixed. This was breaking just from it sitting in the store and being shown. I told them if that was the case, I don't want one of their shitty guns, and to this day I warn people away from them. If the store you're buying from is a good one, then they have high turnover on guns, and they are smart enough to mark down the ones that aren't moving to clear them out (why so few gun shop owners understand basic business calculus and economics is beyond me). What does this do for you? It ensures that even though the gun may have been fingered, it hasn't been there too long. Personally if I owned a gunshop, I'd have demo models for the popular guns like Glocks and keep a stock of unhandled ones in the safe, but that's just me. You could then eventually sell the "demo model" at a discount. When I go into a store, I dryfire the shit out of the guns, and I used to encourage my customers to do the same (barring rimfires of course). If a dealer tells me not to do it now, they cost themselves a sale.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 7:15:05 AM EDT
Though it is nice to be able to check out weapons, I hate to see a gun under counter marked "new" that shows alot of wear. If you're really intersted in buying a gun, it's different than just putting wear and tear on the finish just because you're curious. One shop I used to go to had a Desert Eagle under the counter, and everyone that came in wanted to fondle it, but not buy it. When someone did want to buy it, they wanted the price marked down because it looked "worn."
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 7:28:47 AM EDT
I was fondling a shotgun one time (I had permission to handle it), and broke it open, engaged the safety, disengaged the safety, and dropped the pin. The guy looked at me with incredularity, and asked, "Did you just dry fire that?" "Uh-huh", I said, trying to figure out what this ape was thinking. "Don't do that, you'll ruin the gun!" he snapped. He promptly grabbed it away from me, cracking the beautiful wood stock on the counter pretty hard. I wanted to laugh, but held back. "I WAS GOING to buy that" I said, before walking away. I don't understand why he even lets potential customers handle his guns. He is ripe for a cornary.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 7:35:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sheldon: I dry fire the hell out of my guns. When I go to buy a weapon I like to get a feel for the trigger. I always ask first if it's ok to do so and most will let me. If you're able to pick from more than one, why not get the one that has the best trigger pull? You can always take along the appropriate snap-cap if the shop is concerned about potential firing pin wear or damage.
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My thoughts exactly
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 7:42:28 AM EDT
Dry firing as a necessary for me. If the trigger feels like crap or the controls are difficult to operate from the shooting position, the gun is a no-go. But some gun shop owners, especially the guys operating on a shoe-string, are a PITA about dry firing. For the guys who are a pain, on weapons with an exposed hammer, I drop the hammer on my thumb or finger. Hurts, but not bad and I get a feel for the trigger. For guns without an exposed hammer, if they won't let me dry fire, I go elsewhere. Most stores I frequent don't mind you dry-firing, they understand that being comfortable with the controls is important.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 7:46:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/16/2003 10:01:12 AM EDT by NickFury]
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 7:49:15 AM EDT
It is the same as buying a car. I want to HANDLE the thing before I buy. If you have a problem with that, I'll go somewhere else. When it does come time to purchase, I will likely expect a virgin car. If the dealer tries to convince me to buy the one I test drove, I offer him half price. "What!?" They usually say... "You have to pay a fair price!" Then I ask, "Has the car been driven off the lot?" "Yes" "Then it loses half it's value, I'd prefer a new vehicle, please."
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 7:52:19 AM EDT
"No dry fire...No buy!" Now if we were talking about Compound Bows then I would say NO! If the gun breaks while dry firing then it will break while defending my life! BigDozer66
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 7:59:31 AM EDT
If I'm serious about buying the gun than I need to dry fire to check the trigger feel and weight, I will ask first but no dry fire = no purchase. How hard is it to keep a few snap-caps available for dry-firing?
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 11:42:13 AM EDT
When I handled my Sig 226 before I bought it, I asked if I could dry fire it. Salesman said yes. He handed it to me with the slide locked back, and I proceeded to hit the slide release. Got yelled at for releasing the slide hollywood style. According to him, it wears out the slide "runners"? wtf is he talking about?
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 11:51:58 AM EDT
If the gun is that big a piece of shit that it will break if you dry fire it a few times dont buy it.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 11:55:40 AM EDT
I don't believe this should be a yes or no issue. It is one of courtesty. You should ask the dealer if it is ok. I personally don't mind since a knowledgable shooter will want to evaluate the trigger. In fact I've directed more than one person to try the trigger on FALs since they are nice and crisp. But if I'm in another shop or at another dealers table I will ask first.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 11:56:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By dravisar: When I handled my Sig 226 before I bought it, I asked if I could dry fire it. Salesman said yes. He handed it to me with the slide locked back, and I proceeded to hit the slide release. Got yelled at for releasing the slide hollywood style. According to him, it wears out the slide "runners"? wtf is he talking about?
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Most likely he was referring to dropping the slide on an empty chamber. There's supposed to be a cartridge in there to cushion the impact of the slide dropping. Doing it with the gun empty is not doing the gun any good. I have made it a habit to ease the action closed on autopistols. At least that's what my gun shop clerks tell me. If that's what they want me to do, I don't have a problem with it, especially since they are very understanding about dry firing.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 11:58:16 AM EDT
"Slide Runners" Didn't you know??? That's the little bitty guys with the hardhats inside the gun that push the slide back and forth when you fire. LOL. I just quit going in one gun store that was close to work for a while. Every time I'd go in they would tick me off about something, and it was always different people behind the counter..lol. The last time was when I was looking at a used gun, and asked if he minded me dry firing it. He said yes, so I handed the gun I was going to buy back and said thanks. Haven't been back since. Sorry, but if you have to act like you know more than all your customers combined and be rude about it, you don't get my business.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 12:00:48 PM EDT
How about handing the gun back and forth? When I was selling guns I handed everything to people open, if possible. Break barrels I'd hand "broken", ARs locked back, revolvers w/ the cylinder kicked out, etc. To this day it pisses me off when dealer hands me a gun that's not "open". I would also set pistols down in front of the person, on a mat that I kept behind the counter. Kind of like a jeweler's mat but bigger. Again, it aggrevates me when people just hand me a gun.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 12:16:30 PM EDT
I agree with Steyr, and will generally only do it once or twice to get a feel for the trigger. Dravisar: Seems to me the guy was just being a prick. How much harder does it slam when you fire it to justify his remark? Also, the slide release is there to release the slide (duh!), so I'm sure utilizing it as such is okay.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 5:39:31 PM EDT
I would think stress on the gun would be 100x greater with a live round then cocking it and pulling the trigger with out anything in it. Is this wrong? I have my 700 right now firing at the tv.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 8:03:28 PM EDT
snipely- the stress is caused by the firing pin not meeting any resistance. Most current firing pins are strong enought to handle it no problem and I dry fire my own guns all the time. I would never ask to dry fire a .22 but I do all my other purchases. I ask first and only do it once, or maybe twice. Never had a dealer give me attitude about it. Just be polite. As far as counter gun vs. one in the back, I always like the one from the back but sometimes they only have the one. We have a high volume store about half an hour away that always pulls fresh guns from the back. Most of the local shops only carry one or two of each model though. As long as there is no visible wear I don't mind that it may have been dry fired, just saves me the trouble of trying to break in the trigger. [:)]
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 8:07:15 PM EDT
If it's a firearm I'm seriously interested in, and I know it shouldnt be a problem to dry fire, I'll ask the guy showing it to me if I can... I never assume.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 8:19:19 PM EDT
I like too dry fire. I always ask first.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 8:20:53 PM EDT
I always ask. Even at the same store I've been going to for years. Can't hurt to ask first, plus, if I'm seriously considering it, I'm sure as hell going to dry fire at least 3-4 times.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 8:25:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/16/2003 8:28:18 PM EDT by Sniper_408]
Originally Posted By Torf: It is the same as buying a car. I want to HANDLE the thing before I buy. If you have a problem with that, I'll go somewhere else. When it does come time to purchase, I will likely expect a virgin car. If the dealer tries to convince me to buy the one I test drove, I offer him half price. "What!?" They usually say... "You have to pay a fair price!" Then I ask, "Has the car been driven off the lot?" "Yes" "Then it loses half it's value, I'd prefer a new vehicle, please."
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lol, I hope the dealer sells you a new in box that someone else....test drove...would server you right...what an ass.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 9:06:37 PM EDT
If I can't evaluate the trigger pull I dont want the gun. One business here has lost my business, I wont set foot in there again. Piss poor attitude. Unfortunately for them. Lebrew
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 9:26:01 PM EDT
The problem here is that everyone wants to handle the gun, and then want a new never touched one. People drop the slides on our semiauto all the time (I stop them when they handle the 1911's and explain why dropping the slide on an empty chamber is bad for them), and the guns start to show wear on the barrel, barrel hood, and controls from people handeling them. Guess what? What you see is what we have. We don't have a stockpile of guns "in the back". As a matter of fact, I've never been to a gun store that does that, except for maybe Gallayn's , but I've never bought a gun there, so I don't know if they have a stockpile in the back. We don't keep a bunch of money tied up "in the back". I don't have a problem with people wanting to handle a gun, or dry firing it, but remember, you arn't the only one who looks at that weapon. If you want a never touched gun, I'll happily order one for you.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 9:32:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hydguy: The problem here is that everyone wants to handle the gun, and then want a new never touched one. People drop the slides on our semiauto all the time (I stop them when they handle the 1911's and explain why dropping the slide on an empty chamber is bad for them), and the guns start to show wear on the barrel, barrel hood, and controls from people handeling them. Guess what? What you see is what we have. We don't have a stockpile of guns "in the back". As a matter of fact, I've never been to a gun store that does that, except for maybe Gallayn's , but I've never bought a gun there, so I don't know if they have a stockpile in the back. We don't keep a bunch of money tied up "in the back". I don't have a problem with people wanting to handle a gun, or dry firing it, but remember, you arn't the only one who looks at that weapon. If you want a never touched gun, I'll happily order one for you.
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Are you the owner or an employee?
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 9:40:09 PM EDT
Employee.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 10:41:12 PM EDT
What about in the AM/PM? Is it okay to dry fire there? cynic
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 5:36:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: I don't believe this should be a yes or no issue. It is one of courtesty. You should ask the dealer if it is ok.
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This is really the bottom line to this issue. Six words: "May I dry fire this gun?" 9 times out of 10, the dealer will say yes. Actually, come to think of it, I have never had a single dealer refuse after I asked the question.
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 5:43:16 PM EDT
I like to dry fire, check slide, badcily do everything except fire live rounds before I buy it. Just check the gun, Remeber I got that P22 that came loaded with one in the camber awhile back.
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 6:35:53 PM EDT
If I'm at a storefront gunshop, ask to see a firearm from the case and it's handed to me locked open with no further instructions I'll drop the slide no problem and snap it. Having a customer try the goods is the price of doing business, IMHO. If I pick up a rifle from a rack or table without it being handed over I will always ask, however.
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 6:44:30 PM EDT
Better yet, do you like to drop the slide on an empty chamber? I cringe everytime I hear someone do it. Makes you not want the floor gun.
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 6:47:42 PM EDT
I dry fired a .45 I bought at a fun show today, after double checking the chamber of course. I also dry fire my competition pistol alot before a match.
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 7:01:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DarkNite: If I'm at a storefront gunshop, ask to see a firearm from the case and it's handed to me locked open with no further instructions I'll drop the slide no problem and snap it. Having a customer try the goods is the price of doing business, IMHO. If I pick up a rifle from a rack or table without it being handed over I will always ask, however.
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Do you ever ask for a discount due to a firearm having been handeled or ask for one "from the back"? If so, that's part of the problem.
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 7:34:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By snipley: I would think stress on the gun would be 100x greater with a live round then cocking it and pulling the trigger with out anything in it. Is this wrong? I have my 700 right now firing at the tv.
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That's always been my idea about it. A cartridge produces amazing amounts of pressure, but just cycling it isn't anything. EladEflow was joking with me saying not to let the bolt slam on his AR15. I looked at him like he was stupid and he said "I was just joking!". To the person that says a live round cushions the slide/bolt: what about guns without a last round hold open? Same idea. kicker9898, that is the funniest thing I've heard in a while! [ROFL]
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 7:50:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 9:51:28 PM EDT
Yes! We have applied common sense to the problem and have found that moving parts that function and move together as a result of many thousands of PSI will most likely not be jeopardized by relatively painless and slow manual cycling.
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 9:51:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Cope: Nah. Seems disrespectful to the gun/store owner IMO. I wouldn't want someone dry firing my goods. Cope
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Ditto, I [b]always[/b] ask.
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 4:38:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sherm8404: I was wondering the same thing. It hust sounds like some urban myth crap that just sounded goo and has been parroted for decades. Does anyone actually have proof that racking a slide on an empty chamber does damage? If a .45 is damaged by dropping the slide on an empty chamber, how does it hold up to being fired. I guess the .45 is a bit too delicate for me. I'll look for a reliable gun that can take true abuse. Someone prove it. I say it's BS.
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On a DAO or DA/SA gun (Glock, Ruger ParaOrd LDA,ect.) it won't hurt the trigger because they use coil springs, but in a 1911 type of gun, you can ruin a gun's trigger job. It has to do with trigger bounce and the sear/hammer hooks. It won't happen after one drop of teh slide, but after repeated drops it wilo wear the edge off the sear and hammer hooks and make the trigger feel heavy or rough. Not what I want in a single action trigger.
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 4:39:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Hydguy: Do you ever ask for a discount due to a firearm having been handeled or ask for one "from the back"? If so, that's part of the problem.
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Nope, I'll take what I'm handling. If it shows true signs of wear from store handling then maybe we talk discount. Why should gun stores be exempt from trying a product before buying?
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