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Posted: 5/15/2003 6:17:51 PM EDT
I have friends and aquaintances, who are also gun fanatics, tell me all the time how they built a FA Sten, or have a folding stock on thier SKS, and even build AR's with flash suppressors, bayonet lugs, and collapsable stocks. I try to tell them that what they are doing is illegal, but all anyone ever says is "so?" At least it looks like in a few months even I will be able to do this.... It makes me feel like I am the only person on the planet that doesn't put illegal features on their rifles. I suppose I have always been like that about everything. I'm too boring to ever break laws intentionally. Does anyone else feel like this? guns762
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 6:22:46 PM EDT
All my weapons are completly legal.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 6:35:42 PM EDT
All my rifles are 100% legal. Your "friends" are probably just trying to show off.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 6:39:51 PM EDT
I figure it this way. If you own firearms you have a responsibility to be aware of the laws governing their possession and use. After you make a good faith effort to understand those laws you have several choices: 1. Attempt to follow those laws 2. Act like they don’t exist or somehow they don’t apply to you 3. Make a conscious choice not to obey them and be prepared for any consequences For those that choose not to even make an attempt to learn about the laws and regulations, those people fall under #2 and they don’t have a leg to stand on if something comes back and bites them in the ass.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 6:40:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 6:42:11 PM EDT
I don't know anyone who won't disobey the AWB laws. Just makes me feel like a maverick. I haven't changed any of my weapons out of compliance, but I sure get the urge sometimes. I'm sure I can't be the only one who feels this way. TS
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 7:32:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 7:41:28 PM EDT
... No way, no how. Don't flatter yourself. Many, good folks of this board have way too much invested in "toys" just to blow it all away way by screwing on a cheap assed $35 collapsible stock on a postban. ... Why, just today I butted in on a discussion at work regarding the AWB, it's content, penalties and provisions. Their bravado was quickly humbled after I explained the error in their language. ... Even got challenged on a couple points (Thank goodness for the Internet). Of course, most of them know I'm the resident gunnut. They all know where to go when a guns & ammo subject comes up [/brag]
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 7:48:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By guns762: ... At least it looks like in a few months even I will be able to do this....
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Actually, you have a few months, PLUS ONE YEAR. (The ban expires in 2004, not 2003)
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 7:55:32 PM EDT
All mine are 100% legal, even though the VPC says they really aren't.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 8:01:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 8:20:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By VA-gunnut: Do you think anyone would admit to breaking the law on this website?
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Hell no! But GB could get Imbroglio to point out all the feds and boot them. Then everyone could be truthful.[:D] TS
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 8:52:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Sumo2000: All my weapons are completly legal.
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Ditto: All my Weapons and Mags are 100% legal.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 9:22:23 PM EDT
Has anyone on here ever know someone personally who has gotten busted for non-compliance with the AWB? Or the import ban, or anything else? I'd think it'd be pretty easy to get away with it. How many cops outside of the ATF really understand those laws enough to say, "Hey, that's a collapsible stock with a postban serial #! Felony!!!" So? Anyone know someone who's been busted?
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 9:41:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/15/2003 9:44:33 PM EDT by Airwolf]
I think anyone being singled out for only a technical violation of the AWB would be a long shot. Now, if they get you for something else you can damn well be sure that they will pick every nit to rack up the maximum number of charges against you. Remember, our society is rapidly approaching the point where EVERYONE will be at least technically violating a felony law in any normal day just by going about their normal business. It just depends on who the state wishes to remove from circulation as to when those “violations” are prosecuted. Gun-owners are the first major test of that theory. [i]edited to add[/i] Nope, I'll take that back. I think casual users of recreational drugs users are the first.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 10:01:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By N_Viejo: Has anyone on here ever know someone personally who has gotten busted for non-compliance with the AWB? Or the import ban, or anything else?
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... You see, it's us folks that VPC & Co. wanna make examples of. Not the naive dude with [u]ONE[/u] cheesy postban with a collapsible stock. It's the guys that should have "known better" they wanna string up.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 10:20:28 PM EDT
when i take my pre-ban M4-gery to the range i make it a point to extend the stock BEFORE i leave the house. every single time i shoot at a public range some fat, disgusting "gun-tard" comes over to give me a speech about how my rifle is illegal and that i better put it away before a DNR ranger shows up....idiots.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 10:29:37 PM EDT
I know 2 people that have been busted. One was busted for having a pre-ban AR15 and a MAC90 in his car (carried legally) which he unwisely showed police when they asked. The BATF said his guns were legal but last I heard the Bellevue, WA police would not return them even though they are legal under state and federal law. They seem to have a problem with the Constitution. Another guy I know had an SKS with an illegal folding stock confiscated from his house. Far as I know the Renton, WA police never called the BATF. In both these cases no court ordered the weapons be forfited depriving the owners of due process and thier property illegally. I understand no one has ever been prosecuted soley for violating the AWB. All procecutions have been add-on charges with other crimes.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 10:33:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/15/2003 10:34:59 PM EDT by Katana16j]
The purpose of the ban is to get all the LEO's to believe that a collapsible stock is completely illegal. Most LEO's will give you trouble over a single "Evil" feature simply becuase they dont know much about the law. Heck, most will think yor AR is an m16, this is the true purpose of the ban. To foment mistrust and ignorance.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 12:21:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By c-wheeler: I know 2 people that have been busted. One was busted for having a pre-ban AR15 and a MAC90 in his car (carried legally) which he unwisely showed police when they asked. The BATF said his guns were legal but last I heard the Bellevue, WA police would not return them even though they are legal under state and federal law. They seem to have a problem with the Constitution. Another guy I know had an SKS with an illegal folding stock confiscated from his house. Far as I know the Renton, WA police never called the BATF. In both these cases no court ordered the weapons be forfited depriving the owners of due process and thier property illegally. I understand no one has ever been prosecuted soley for violating the AWB. All procecutions have been add-on charges with other crimes.
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Straightforward way to beat that - legal letter to the department holding the weapons, quoting Federal and State laws, proclaiming the weapons' adherence with same, and demanding delivery / return forthwith. Escalate as necessary. Some departments (such as LAPD / LASD) have policies to flat out refuse all returns and destroy all confiscated weapons. Regardless of legality of the confiscation, or established non-guilt in the related case. In that situation, I'd strongly advocate proceedings for compensation of the financial loss. Make'em beg. They only get away with what you let them do to you.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 1:00:52 AM EDT
The average local cop has little or no knowledge of the AWB. Its a FEDERAL statute, which local law enforcement can not enforce. ATF could be contacted in some rare instances, but in most cases even the local ATF office is not going to care much unless it was used in a MAJOR crime and could be tied into a MAJOR investigation.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 1:39:53 AM EDT
why would anyone risk it? personally, i've got way to much $ invested in my toyz to risk losing ANY of them just because i wanted to put preban features on a postban gun. best bet is to play by the rules.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 3:17:50 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 3:57:04 AM EDT
Well if it isn't little mr. goody-two shoes...
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 4:01:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sherrick13: Your friends are really the ATF.
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Not if they can actually assemble and operate a firearm. [:D]
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 4:37:27 AM EDT
All my guns are legal, and (sob) PC [>(] (well, except for the RRA lower that I cant afford a kit for, yet, but soon)
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 4:41:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By guns762: .... built a FA Sten, ... At least it looks like in a few months even I will be able to do this....
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You might want to rethink building that Full Auto Sten when (if) the Ban lifts.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 5:32:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 5:51:51 AM EDT
I never, ever break any law. But I have noticed that there seems to be a huge population of gun owners who don't understand the complexities of the AWB, and may in fact unknowingly violate some letters of the ban. Those who frequent this site, of course, do. Because we came here for information.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 6:09:05 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 6:09:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/16/2003 6:12:45 AM EDT by Feedingcannibal]
Originally posted by Cincinnatus:
I never, ever break any law.
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NEW YORK STATE LAWS ([url]http://www.fortunecity.co.uk/meltingpot/jinx/399/jokes/Truth_Stranger_Than_Fiction/Legal/NY_Laws.html[/url]): A fine of $25 can be levied for flirting. This old law specifically prohibits men from turning around on any city street and looking "at a woman in that way." A second conviction for a crime of this magnitude calls for the violating male to be forced to wear a "pair of horse- blinders" wherever and whenever he goes outside for a stroll. It is against the law to throw a ball at someone's head for fun. A license must be purchased before hanging clothes on a clothesline. The penalty for jumping off a building is death. New Yorkers cannot dissolve a marriage for irreconcilable differences, unless they both agree to it. That rarely happens, since one party regularly says "no" to the other, or there wouldn't be a reason to dissolve the marriage. If one of the spouses says "no" to the divorce, the other party has to prove that the spouse saying "no" was at fault. Fault could be one of four terrible things. If the spouse has abandoned the other spouse, that is, left the house for a year or if there hasn't been sexual relations for a year (how do you prove that?). Another one of the four terrible things, an oft cited fault, is to assert that the spouse has treated the other spouse with physical or mental cruelty. This is usually the case in most deteriorating marriages, but for the court's purposes, yelling and screaming is not usually enough; pictures of bruises taken in the emergency room might suffice. Divorce will be easy if the spouse has been imprisoned for two or three years. Much more difficult is the last fault, adultery. This keeps a lot of private detectives in business, since lipstick on the collar is not proof. It also means that lawyers get paid to "prove" fault, or on the other side, to show how lame the opposing side's "fault" claim is. A person may not walk around on Sundays with an ice cream cone in his/her pocket. It's illegal to speak to a person while riding in an elevator and you must fold your hand while looking towards the forward opening door. Slippers are not to be worn after 10pm. CITY LAWS Carmel: A man can't go outside while wearing a jacket and pants that do not match. Greene: It is illegal to eat peanuts and walk backwards on the sidewalks when a concert is on. New York: Citizens may not greet each other by "putting one's thumb to the nose and wiggling the fingers." A man may not turn around and look at a woman in "that way," and violators are forced to wear horse blinders. It is illegal for a woman to be on the street wearing "body hugging clothing." You may not smoke within 100 feet of the entrance to a public building. Women may go topless in public, providing it is not being used as a business. Staten Island: You may only water your lawn if the hose is held your hand. It is illegal for a father to call his son a "faggot" or "queer" in an effort to curb "girlie behaviour." And let's not forget speeding, various parking regulations, building compliance laws, insane tax laws, etc., etc.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 6:21:29 AM EDT
Nope, not a one. Although once while I was "watering" a lawn on Staten Island, I did let go of my hose for a second.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 6:28:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 6:38:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sumo2000: All my weapons are completly legal.
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Yep mine too,I'm not just saying that either, [size=3][red][b]I will not give then a reason to take away my Gun rights 4 EVER![/b][/red][/size=3]
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 6:59:03 AM EDT
The AWB could lick my ass from day one! As far as I am concerned it never even existed!
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 7:11:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Nope, not a one. Although once while I was "watering" a lawn on Staten Island, I did let go of my hose for a second.
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I have notified the proper authorities. Of course, what I am tyring to get at here is that we have created a system of government in which many thousands of people earn a living - and a very good living at that - by making laws. Every day of every year, in every state, town, and township, someone is enacting a new law. Laws, by definition, restrict freedom. Yes, they may restrict "freedoms" that we would most likely agree on (i.e., rape), but they are restrictive nonetheless. As with the AWB, many laws serve their use only when there are other motives at play. With the massive amount of laws present on the books, [i]anyone[/i] can, I believe, be arrested, fined, imprisoned, given the proper motivation by a government authority. And I cannot believe you never exceeded the speed limit, Cinncinnatus. Of course, now we will know if you do, because the Water Authority will be watching. And that is some peace of mind for us law-abiding citizens.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 7:35:54 AM EDT
All my guns are legal, I sold all my high capacity magazines and only have 10-rounders, I pay all the taxes I owe, I never exceed the speed limit, I only cross at the corner when the light says "Walk", I never yell at my kids, I have never looked at another woman since I've been married, I go to church 3 times a week and I've never committed a sin. Jesus F. Christ[nana]
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 2:44:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Originally Posted By guns762: .... built a FA Sten, ... At least it looks like in a few months even I will be able to do this....
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You might want to rethink building that Full Auto Sten when (if) the Ban lifts.
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Uh, no. And, ya, I am a goodie too shoes....always have been; probably why I didn't get too many dates in high school. No I don't intend on building a Sten. I just was using it as an example. I also realize it will be 2004 not 03. I just like to think it is "only 15 months" sounds better than 1yr and 3months. I realize most everyone on this site goes by the law. It's the guys that don't to to sites like these that seem to not care. It really amazes me. Some of the guys I am thinking about have as many firearms as I do, some even more. They know the law just as well as I do. Others, just don't take the time to learn the laws, but have too much money and go nuts on their rifles. To tell you the truth, I don't think if the ban sets, I will be adding to many features to many of my rifles. I used to think I would want the flash supessor on my AR, but now, I don't want to screw with the accuracy. My Cetme might get the real thing. Right now it only has a fake brake silver soddered on it.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 2:49:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Paul: Interesting group of "friends" you have there.
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I used the term loosely. I'm married with two kids, I don't have time for many real friends. Surprisingly, only my dad is someone I consider a true friend that is a firearms enthusiast. He is even more boring than I am.
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 1:17:23 PM EDT
I get a weekly visit from the "Stock Police"! They ransack my house and even make sure I don't have Duct Tape (in case I get a notion to mount a bayonet on my "bayonet lugless" guns!) They assure me that it's "neccessary for my safety",(just like the full cavity searches I now enjoy at the airport). It's a better world, and I sleep good at night!
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 1:25:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/17/2003 1:29:04 PM EDT by jtw2]
Originally Posted By Katana16j: The purpose of the ban is to get all the LEO's to believe that a collapsible stock is completely illegal. Most LEO's will give you trouble over a single "Evil" feature simply becuase they dont know much about the law. Heck, most will think yor AR is an m16, this is the true purpose of the ban. To foment mistrust and ignorance.
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See I have to disagree there. The experience I've had is that all of the LEOs I've encountered while shooting is that they just assume that all of them are legal. I like to point out to them the differences betweem my prebans and my post bans however. Really all my interactions with the cops in the field while shooting have been positive. Some of them even decide to squeeze off a few rounds with us. Keep in mind that I'm rural and live in a county the size of many East coast states. As always YMMV. Edited to add that yes, every single weapon I have is 100% legal. The features they took away just aren't worth the risk.
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 5:57:22 PM EDT
I disagree with the law, but it is a law, so I obey it. It would be hypocritical of me not to, as I am a law and order guy both by personality and career. It actually pisses me off more that I can't play football pools, but I don't do that either. I spend the jack and buy preban stuff if I want it bad enough. Besides, I know a couple of feds who'd have my ass if I gave them half a chance. A lot of feds are really o.k., but not all.
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