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Posted: 5/15/2003 9:47:54 AM EDT
You gotta wonder about some people. The guy severs his girlfriend's fingers with a sword, but the prosecutors don't want her on the stand because "she still loves him." Incredible! This happened near Pittsburgh, PA. the Wilkinsburg suburb is pretty much "da hood." A Wilkinsburg man has admitted attacking his girlfriend with a samurai sword during a domestic dispute, WTAE's Chris Glorioso reported Thursday. Brandon Burnett, 22, pleaded guilty to aggravated assault, reckless endangerment and a weapons violation. Prosecutors dropped the more serious charge of attempted homicide. Police said Burnett attacked his 25-year-old girlfriend, Lea Turk, while the couple was arguing at their Hill Avenue residence on Nov. 20. Turk's hand was severed between the fingers and through the palm when she tried to block the sword. Surgeons at UPMC Presbyterian were able to reattach most of it, but not the pinky finger. Turk stormed out of court Thursday without commenting on the case. In the past, she has said Burnett needs counseling and should not be held responsible for slicing her hand off. The possibility that Turk would express her love for Burnett on the stand factored into prosecutors' decision to drop the attempted murder charge, Glorioso reported. Burnett could face a maximum sentence of 25 years in prison and a $35,000 fine.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 9:57:38 AM EDT
I keep telling my female friends, a guy that slices your hand off with a sword DOES NOT LOVE YOU. They just never listen....
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 10:09:38 AM EDT
AND THAT"S WHAT I CALL REAL ULTIMATE POWER!!!!!!!!!!! On a related note: [url]http://homdar.com/YardGnomes[/url]
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 10:18:34 AM EDT
BETTER BAN GUNS!!!!!! oh wait....
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 10:48:22 AM EDT
[size=6][red]THAT'S IT!!! BAN ALL SAMURAI SWORDS![/red][/size=6]
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 10:52:18 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 11:52:29 AM EDT
so sweet i want to crap my pants
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 12:19:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 12:55:42 PM EDT
I would be very surprised if the sword in question was a "real" sword. It was probably one of those fakes that's not sharp and not intended to be sharpened. Essentially, it'd a metal rod with a narrowed striking edge. I say this because a "real" sword would probably have cut cleanly enough that ALL the fingers could have been reattached. No doubt about it, if it were properly sharpened. I have a real Japanese sword, not a decorative fake, (it's VERY sharp...it cuts paper hung by a thread) and it's terrifying to imagine being attacked with such an item. I think I'd prefer to be shot! Swords should be kept out of the hands of idiots. [chainsawkill] CJ
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 1:03:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cmjohnson: I would be very surprised if the sword in question was a "real" sword. It was probably one of those fakes that's not sharp and not intended to be sharpened. Essentially, it'd a metal rod with a narrowed striking edge. I say this because a "real" sword would probably have cut cleanly enough that ALL the fingers could have been reattached. No doubt about it, if it were properly sharpened. I have a real Japanese sword, not a decorative fake, (it's VERY sharp...it cuts paper hung by a thread) and it's terrifying to imagine being attacked with such an item. I think I'd prefer to be shot! Swords should be kept out of the hands of idiots. [chainsawkill] CJ
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LOL. I can guarantee it wasn't a real smaurai sword. I collect them, or more correctly Nihon To. A real one would have made short work of extremeties.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 1:05:20 PM EDT
Reminds me of a local case not too long ago where some kid charged a Sherrif's Deputy with a samurai sword, and was ventilated. No word on whether the sword was real, but the local liberals whined about it for months, until the dashcam video was released.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 1:38:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 2:45:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mace: Reminds me of a local case not too long ago where some kid charged a Sherrif's Deputy with a samurai sword, and was ventilated. No word on whether the sword was real, but the local liberals whined about it for months, until the dashcam video was released.
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Palm Bay, FL. I worked there for a few years and I have lunch there every Friday. I live in Sat. Beach. As local Arfcommers, we have an obligation to meet sometime. Rooney's, Palm Bay Road, 12:30, any given Friday. Look for the table of three, with two longhairs (one looks like Hagar the Horrible, but older, and the other has scary big black hair) and the clean-cut, fit looking guy with them is me. Best buffalo wings EVER! Or, ask the pretty young blonde waitress where the wing guys are. CJ
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 11:43:21 PM EDT
A relative of mine was in a lot of combat in the Pacific island fighting during WW2, and saw a GI who had been killed with a samurai sword. He had been cut almost in two with one stroke. The blade went diagonally, from the top of the left shoulder down through the chest and stopped just short of the last rib at the bottom of the rib cage above the hip on the right side. Very bad. (The Japanese soldier who killed the GI was KIA, incidentally.) The real ones are definitely effective weapons, and awesomely so in trained hands. John
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 11:57:22 PM EDT
So when and if this guy pays a $35,000 fine, who does he pay it to? And all the other perps that pay fines, who gets the money?
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 3:55:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By John_Feamster: A relative of mine was in a lot of combat in the Pacific island fighting during WW2, and saw a GI who had been killed with a samurai sword. He had been cut almost in two with one stroke. The blade went diagonally, from the top of the left shoulder down through the chest and stopped just short of the last rib at the bottom of the rib cage above the hip on the right side. Very bad. (The Japanese soldier who killed the GI was KIA, incidentally.) The real ones are definitely effective weapons, and awesomely so in trained hands. John
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Obviously that soldier was no Samurai. It's very bad form to fail to clear the body in one stroke. Your swordsmanship instructor will kick your ass for that screwup. The strike from the juncture of the neck and shoulder diagonal to the opposite kidney is called yokomen, incidentally. In truly well trained hands, Japanese swords are good for up too three bodies in one stroke, at the waist. And some old blades were proof tested by doing exactly this to condemned prisoners, and the results recorded on the tang of the blade. CJ
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 4:18:59 PM EDT
Something similar happened in New Zealand about 5 months ago. Some tweaker cut up his girlfriend and her friend real bad with a samurai sword, dismembered her hand.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 11:51:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
Originally Posted By John_Feamster: A relative of mine was in a lot of combat in the Pacific island fighting during WW2, and saw a GI who had been killed with a samurai sword. He had been cut almost in two with one stroke. The blade went diagonally, from the top of the left shoulder down through the chest and stopped just short of the last rib at the bottom of the rib cage above the hip on the right side. Very bad. (The Japanese soldier who killed the GI was KIA, incidentally.) The real ones are definitely effective weapons, and awesomely so in trained hands. John
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Obviously that soldier was no Samurai. It's very bad form to fail to clear the body in one stroke. Your swordsmanship instructor will kick your ass for that screwup. The strike from the juncture of the neck and shoulder diagonal to the opposite kidney is called yokomen, incidentally. In truly well trained hands, Japanese swords are good for up too three bodies in one stroke, at the waist. And some old blades were proof tested by doing exactly this to condemned prisoners, and the results recorded on the tang of the blade. CJ
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Actually it's pretty impressive if you consider it was probably a Showa blade and not a true pre Meiji.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 12:24:11 PM EDT
Alrighty then! Perhaps a few misconceptions here about Nihonto that I will offer to clear up. Nihonto are not light sabres and will fail to cut just as will any other blade if it is not properly sharpened. They are not magic and will perform no Ninja power moves either. If you have ever performed tameshigiri with old tatami, japanese rice mats, you will know that if your blade is dull, well you aint cuttin' for crap till you finger-stone it. Even if it was a "real" sword, if it was dull... it would not cut for beans. Most blades when polished by modern Toshii, Japanese sword polishers, are left without the Ha in a cutting sharp condition, only upon request will this be done as most actual Nihonto are for collecting not cutting. Steyr, Some of the sharpest blades for cutting are Showa blades... Mantetsu blades are incredible cutting blades and these are not even Tamahagane blades... you should see how sharp my 23rd generation Kanefusa is... and that is in its original WW2 polish, cuts tatami like it wasnt even there. I have been collecting and studying for years guys and it is a wonderful and heinously expensive hobby, but dont believe any Ninja stories. Dramborleg
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 1:18:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dramborleg: Steyr, Some of the sharpest blades for cutting are Showa blades... Mantetsu blades are incredible cutting blades and these are not even Tamahagane blades... you should see how sharp my 23rd generation Kanefusa is... and that is in its original WW2 polish, cuts tatami like it wasnt even there. I have been collecting and studying for years guys and it is a wonderful and heinously expensive hobby, but dont believe any Ninja stories. Dramborleg
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True but that is because they are not genuine forged (or were forged by inferior smiths) and are a mostly carbon steel blade so they will polish to a very keen edge. However because they are not (in most cases) differentially tempered with a softer steel they lack the flexing properties to pull off a shoulder to hip cut that a pre meiji blade is more capable of. Kenshin - Batto Jutsu [:D] -Eishin Ryu -Miso Jikiden Ryu Have you been kind to your Amakuni today? I'll see your cursed Muramasa and raise you a Bizen Arimitsu. [:D]
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 1:51:13 PM EDT
Hi Steyr, No, not a iaido practitioner... just a punter, dont have the time to belong to a school and the attendant politics... my life is too jammed up. But, when you give such a broad statement about pre meiji blades and tempering properties I have to say... what? There are hundreds of smiths and blades from this time period.... they are no better or worse than blades made this day! Shinsakuto from established smiths of today are incredible pieces of work and every bit the equal of older blades. Forgive me sir, but I just dont know where this info could have come from. There are blades made in the WW2 era that are hand forged, water tempered, tamahagane based that are fully capable of whatever you might desire. Pardon me, but it sounds as though you have been the target of some misinformation from somebody that is unlearned. This is not meant to offend you Steyr, please dont let me get your goat on this. But, some of the most unlearned of students of nihonto are the iaidoka that teach. They can use the blades but are really not very knowledgeable about them. Its sad to hear some of the stuff some instructors talk about and say. I say this, because one of my friends is a sword dealer and instructors and students will come up to see the blades he has for sale and they just blather on and on to the students and dont know at all what they are saying. But due to the rigid structure of oriental arts, ones teacher is not questioned. This leads to bad knowledge referred to as fact. This may in fact not be the case as far as you are concerned but, I just dont get your commentary? Im confused But not too confused to see your Arimitsu with a Kiyomaro and trump it with a Rai Kunimitsu
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 2:08:30 PM EDT
you think that's bad? Guess you didn't hear about the story in 2002 where an angered girlfriend ripped out her boyfriends testicle with her fingernails. The bitch only got 80 days in jail, and her boyfriend forgave her. Can you imagine what kind of jail time a man would be doing if he ripped off a boob?
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 6:18:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dramborleg: Hi Steyr, No, not a iaido practitioner... just a punter, dont have the time to belong to a school and the attendant politics... my life is too jammed up. But, when you give such a broad statement about pre meiji blades and tempering properties I have to say... what? There are hundreds of smiths and blades from this time period.... they are no better or worse than blades made this day! Shinsakuto from established smiths of today are incredible pieces of work and every bit the equal of older blades. Forgive me sir, but I just dont know where this info could have come from. There are blades made in the WW2 era that are hand forged, water tempered, tamahagane based that are fully capable of whatever you might desire. Pardon me, but it sounds as though you have been the target of some misinformation from somebody that is unlearned. This is not meant to offend you Steyr, please dont let me get your goat on this. But, some of the most unlearned of students of nihonto are the iaidoka that teach. They can use the blades but are really not very knowledgeable about them. Its sad to hear some of the stuff some instructors talk about and say. I say this, because one of my friends is a sword dealer and instructors and students will come up to see the blades he has for sale and they just blather on and on to the students and dont know at all what they are saying. But due to the rigid structure of oriental arts, ones teacher is not questioned. This leads to bad knowledge referred to as fact. This may in fact not be the case as far as you are concerned but, I just dont get your commentary? Im confused But not too confused to see your Arimitsu with a Kiyomaro and trump it with a Rai Kunimitsu
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Well I have no specific allegience to any ryu and have studied a variety of systems. Also my knowledge of sword history does not come from my instructors. It is true that many post meiji smith (and even seom contemporary ones such as Paul Chen) produce swords made in the traditional way. I guess I was not specific enough in my point that swordsmithing reached it's zenith with the Bizen smiths around the 17th century. As a direct result of the Tokugawa restoration swordsmithing and quality of swords declined. With the absence of large scale conflict weapon grade blades were no longer a priority and the scerets of the master smiths were somewhat lost. Also much like the jutsu to do reformation of the bugei the emphasis of sword production switched from a martial priority to a artistic one. This is why most orthodox sword collectors do not consider any post meiji blade to be a genuine nihon to. And despite your assertions to the contrary, no contemporary blade has ever achieved the quality or properties of the best examples of pre meiji blades and many of the greatest have never been duplicated even with modern metalurgy methods at our disposal. That said the sword smith tradition continues in Japan (although they are technically artwork since WW2 due to restrictions of weapon production) and a select few individuals do their best to uphold the standards and continue the traditions of excellent sword making. And it is possible that quality ones exist among the showa military blades, but that is generally the exception to the rule. Many were made in the same factories that produced arisaka bayonets and the bulk of those that were hand made were done so with mass production in mind. For further information, assuming you have not read them already, see: The Samurai Sword - John Yumoto The Fightin Spirit of Japan - E.J. Harrison Japanese Swordsmanship - Donn Draeger The Connoissier's Book of Japanese Swords - Kogan Nagayama
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 7:09:04 PM EDT
Hi Steyr, This is cool, not alot of people can talk about nihonto to any degree and it is nice to do so with you sir. Well, let me start here, most of the old school collectors like John Yumoto and his era were all sword snobs that said if it aint Koto period it is crap. Same with Kokan Nagayama, big time sword polisher and living national treasure. They were raised on the ethos of the koto being the penultimate of nihonto building. Well, now those same people, if still alive, are being forced to re-examine the role and quality of showa blades, not the factory crap nco blades and non tamahagane blades... but the traditionally made blades...true nihonto in every sense. They are finding that the blades are much higher in quality than previously estimated and if you were in the "loop" of the sword dealers you would know the price of them is climbing commensurately with this awakening and realization. There are very few koto attributes that cannot be recreated today by modern sword smiths of mukansa level. Utsuri, kinsuji, and all the rest are do-able by select modern smiths. The only thing that cannot be replicated is the koto sword color in the surface steel... the ever elusive koto jigane. Some say it is due to the aging of the steel over 5-700 years or it is the iron sand that they used in production of tamahagane... and this is not in ready supply any more. No smiths agree on this, and multiple theories abound. But modern swords are just as beautiful and effective as any made in the last 1000 years. That is without question. But to say a pre meiji sword or Bizen blade is something special is IMHO very mistaken. Modern blades are every bit the equal of these. I have read Kogan Nagayama's book voraciously, and I have read yumotos sword primer, and even had written correspondence with Kenji Mishina the translator and chief student of Nagayamasan. The other two have, unfortunately, no standing at all amongst serious students of nihonto study. The only serious books are done by, or in conjunction with Japanese polishers or smiths. An excellent source on modern swords is Modern Japanese Swords and Swordsmiths by Leon and Hiroko Kapp and Yoshindo Yoshihara... the best recent book available on modern blades and smiths. It is a must have. So I shall say sumimaisen and beg to differ greatly with you on your appraisal of modern blades. Dramborleg out
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 7:19:54 PM EDT
Yup, I admit it I'm a sword snob. Probably reinforced by the fact that we used to literally buy Showa blades for $25 each from a guy who showed up at events and he had a metal trash can full of them with a sign that said "Your pick $25" We used to use them for drawing blades and make new funiture asd the WWII era fittings were usually shot to hell. And I know not everything that came from Bizen was the holy grail and not every showa was pot metal junk (I'm actually somewhat fond of Navy blades) but comparing the two in general terms is the basis for my above statements.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 8:18:40 PM EDT
Stick it in her pooper and post pics.
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