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Posted: 5/14/2003 11:18:52 PM EDT
Hey all. I have finally convinced my mother to learn to use a handgun for protection, she'll be using it both at home and carrying it concealed in her car. She's a relocation agent who relocates people who live in areas where the government is taking the land for public use, right now she's working on building schools. She goes into pretty bad neighborhoods alone and talks with people who are unstable and VERY unhappy about being moved, and has received many threats, so you all can understand why I want her to carry a weapon. For her first time, I took her to shoot Uzis since that is something she has always wanted to do. We took a one day class together and she LOVED it! Next I took her to the range and had her try a Colt .45, a Glock 17, a Springfield 1911 9mm, and a .38 special. She liked the Glock the best because of the relatively small recoil and the less weight. I'm trying to figure out which gun would be the best for her to get, I'll be buying, but money is no object for my mom, so I don't mind spending whatever necessary to get her the best gun possible. She really liked the Glock 17, but was bothered by the fact that it has no safety, the 1911 was too heavy for her, she hated the revolver. I think that she would do best with a polymer frame, but then I bump up against another problem... My mother wants a "pretty" gun. I asked her what "pretty" meant to her, and she said that she wanted a gun that gleamed. I swear, I thought I was going to lose it! [:)] I asked her if having a pretty shiny gun was negotiable, and she asked me why she should have to compromise! I lost it then, after about 10 minutes she asked me what was so funny, I couldn't stop laughing for an hour, I swear!!! So as an option, I was thinking about the new Springfield XD's. I have never fired one personally, and I would LOVE any input from anyone here who has, or know someone who has. I figure that it has everything my mom would want. It's got the polymer frame, so it will be light, and it's supposed to have pretty light recoil, even the subcompact, again a good point. It's got a safety, I can get one in a 9mm, and it has a "pretty gleaming" slide, so it satisfies my mom's last request! I can't find any ranges in my immediate area that have these guns to rent, and I'm not able to go to the range for another week or so anyway, so any information you might have would be greatly appreciated, and other advice as well. Thanks guys, I really appreciate it! Tiffany
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 11:25:17 PM EDT
Sig 229 .40 Cal Pretty, accurate, and dangerous.[;)]
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 11:27:33 PM EDT
Glock 19...NP3 the slide for pretty.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 11:35:15 PM EDT
Look at Kahr's polymer pistols as they are small and lightweight. Also HK has some nice looking pieces in SS. Just be sure and get her something she will like and really learn to shoot it well and that she can clear jams, etc. by racking the slide. She liked the Glock because it is 9mm and has less recoil than the .45 or .38 revolver. Be sure she was shooting some real defensive loads of similar bullet weights when she made the comparison, or at least a comparable loading in each weapon. My Mom hates guns and would rather die than touch one, much less shoot one. Maybe that is why I always liked them so much.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 11:35:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Panzerwolf: Glock 19...NP3 the slide for pretty.
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That will absolutely work.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 12:01:28 AM EDT
Hell yes on the Springfield XD Go find one in person, the slide rails are SOLID! and it comes with a lifetime warranty on top of that they're pretty cheap. GO to a bookstore and check out all the current pistol magazines, all of them have articles with nothing but rave for the XD
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 12:17:37 AM EDT
The XD is a great gun, especially if you don't want to pay a fortune. With that said, Sig and HK seem to be more "high-end." Sorta like the difference between a Corvette and a Porsche.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 12:35:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/15/2003 12:36:57 AM EDT by freeride21a]
I own an XD, and love glock 19, but after working at an indoor range and having witnessed this with both guns. glocks, xd's and females have a common problem, women have limp wrists, and both guns dont like that. It causes incomplete cycling and you get stovepipe. I'm NOT saying don't get them! what im saying is, take her to the local indoor range and try out all the ones being suggested, see if they work for HER, not you. Heck if local range dont have a model you want, hookup with a local ar15.com member who might have that model and try it out. my suggestions are any small 38/357 revolver(if recoil is issue, get a 38, and DONT GET A LIGHT WEIGHT FRAME, ie titanium or aluminum) sig 230/232 try glock 19(newer g19 might have stronger spring therefore more likely to have that problem) XD, i think that the XD is better than the g19 in this department but i did see that happen a few times. good luck! and have fun!
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 5:44:54 AM EDT
Glocks, IMHO, are (or at least should be) strictly for people who really know their stuff. I have never handled the Springfield. so I really can’t say anything about it. However, assuming money isn’t an issue, I’d suggest a H&K USP Compact in 9MM. It has a safety that she can use or not, depending on how she wants to carry it. (Actually, she could even carry it both decocked and locked if she wanted to!) Plus the safety/decocking lever is easy for someone with small hands to get to, as is the magazine release. I’m pretty sure it’s available with a stainless steel slide, though I think they’re hard to find. Admittedly, it is a little bulky. It’s also pretty business-like in appearance.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 5:53:19 AM EDT
The XD would be an excellent choice. Pretty safe, too, as it has a grip safety like 1911s. I intended to get one for myself someday. One thing to check is whether she can easily rack the slide. My wife has one weak hand from an old surgery and has trouble cycling the slide on just about any of my pistols. For that reason I was going to buy her a Beretta Tomcat in .32acp. It has a popup barrel for loading the first round. With the proper round I think .32 would make an adequate defensive round. Just my 2 cents.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 8:24:43 AM EDT
Have you considered one of the Sig's? I know that many of them are available with nickle plated slides. They are very reliable weapons and have a very simple 'manual-of-arms', an important factor if someone doesn't practice frequently. Alternatively, look into maybe getting a Glock (since you already know she likes it) and have the slide refinished in something 'purty' ...Kudo's to you for looking out for your mom's welfare like this.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 8:31:09 AM EDT
I have a bi-tone XD40. No problems with it at all and I've really enjoyed mine. I'd say get the bi-tone (stainless slide) in a 9mm and get some .40 cal magazines for it since you can use them in the 9mm and it will then hold 15 rounds. You could also go with the subcompact XD, I have no experience with it but I'm sure it performs just as well as the larger framed XD, only thing is it currently only available in one finish and won't gleam. Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 9:06:00 AM EDT
A first gun, for a woman who is not young? Get her an all steel snubby in .357, but buy her .38's for it. The image of one's mother trying to clear a stovepipe or FTF with a goon rushing her is not a pretty one. Don't get her anything buy a wheel gun until she is ready to graduate.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 9:14:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Emoto: A first gun, for a woman who is not young? Get her an all steel snubby in .357, but buy her .38's for it. The image of one's mother trying to clear a stovepipe or FTF with a goon rushing her is not a pretty one. Don't get her anything buy a wheel gun until she is ready to graduate.
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This is the best advice yet posted. A S&W Ladysmith would be a perfect choice for her. It's small, powerful, simple to use, and doesn't take hours and hours to become familiar with. For this application, and autoloader is not the answer.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 10:05:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Emoto: A first gun, for a woman who is not young? Get her an all steel snubby in .357, but buy her .38's for it. The image of one's mother trying to clear a stovepipe or FTF with a goon rushing her is not a pretty one. Don't get her anything buy a wheel gun until she is ready to graduate.
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This is good enough advice for you to read it twice...try a S&W 686 w/7 rounds of .38 cal.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 10:09:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RobarSR60:
Originally Posted By Emoto: A first gun, for a woman who is not young? Get her an all steel snubby in .357, but buy her .38's for it. The image of one's mother trying to clear a stovepipe or FTF with a goon rushing her is not a pretty one. Don't get her anything buy a wheel gun until she is ready to graduate.
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This is the best advice yet posted. A S&W Ladysmith would be a perfect choice for her. It's small, powerful, simple to use, and doesn't take hours and hours to become familiar with. For this application, and autoloader is not the answer.
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Listen to these guys. I am an NRA Instructor and have trained a lot of ladies to shoot. I always recommend a revolver for a lady. There are no safeties to forget, no slides to rack, no tap-rack drills to master. Just point and pull the trigger. If she insists on an auto, make her practice failure drills over and over with mulitple failures such as stovepipes, non-seated magazines, double-feeds, etc. No matter how excellent a semi-auto firearm, they can all fail. While there may be a few ladies that are interested enough in firearms to carry an auto, most are better served with a revolver. When you are scared to death, revolvers are the easiest to manipulate.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 3:26:23 PM EDT
DO NOT GET SOMEONE NEW TO GUNS A GLOCK. To someone unfamiliar to guns a Glock is an accident waiting to happen. Get her a good revolver. A revolver is a better choice for a new handgun owner than a semi-auto of any flavor.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 4:31:02 PM EDT
Thank you SO much for all of your advice. I will try to get my mom to look into the revolvers, but she really prefers the autos, so we'll see. I'll be getting her to the range this weekend, and we'll get her going. After getting her her gun, whatever it ends up being, one of the first things she will do is take a 4-5 day class with me at a training range, either Front Sight or Gunsite, so that she can have a professional take her through the process, get aquainted to her weapon, learn to deal with malfunctions, learn to safely practice malfunction clearing and dry firing drills at home, and in general get familiar with her weapon. She has also promised me to find someone in Seattle, where she's moving in a week, who can help her at the range, and teach her to assemble and disassemble her gun, and all that fun stuff. I'm so proud of her! Thanks again for all your help. Please keep the advice coming, any ideas on the two schools?
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 12:29:49 AM EDT
Definitely the DA revolver. Too many things to go wrong on an automatic even before you get the first round off and if she limpwrists it at that point???
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 4:02:45 AM EDT
I agree with PaDanby, Emoto and Old_Painless on the revolver. I've helped buy guns and shown how to shoot them to my sisters, nices, my wife and sister-in-laws, daughter-in laws over the years. The revolver is always the best way to go.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 4:50:57 AM EDT
Do I detect a bit of gender bias here? As they say, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. How come you guys don't carry revolvers? [;D]
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 6:07:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/16/2003 6:09:04 AM EDT by Old_Painless]
Originally Posted By marvl: Do I detect a bit of gender bias here? As they say, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. How come you guys don't carry revolvers? [;D]
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That's easy. I am willing to invest the time and trouble and expense to learn to manipulate a semi-auto firearm. I've been to Handgun I and Handgun II at Thunder Ranch. I've also shot and collected guns for 40 years. I'm a qualified Instructor for the NRA in Rifle, Handguns, Shotguns, Home Defense, and Personal Firearms Protection. I doubt this lady is willing or interested enough to put that amount of effort into this issue. At Thunder Ranch I saw many "gunny" guys that had all the fancy equipment and looked the part. But when their firearms were jammed by the instructors and they were required to clear them under pressure, they choked. Manipulation of a semi-auto is harder than most people appreciate. Especially under pressure. Revolvers are simple to operate and therefore better for the novice.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 6:11:42 AM EDT
My wife shot an HS-2000 and was hooked. She took the initiative to go to a gun show and buy the XD-9 on her own accord. She loves it dearly and I have to say that it's been one of the better firearm purchases I've ever made. Do it, you won't regret it.
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 9:38:23 AM EDT
I think I'd avoid a .40. I've heard so many people tell me about cycling problems if they're not held properly. How about this. If she enjoys shooting, start her on a revolver as mentioned above. After she's competent with that she can then get a semiauto. Sell it to her as accessorizing, like having more than one pair of shoes! The main point is to be competent and confident with what she's carrying.
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