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Posted: 5/14/2003 8:16:28 AM EDT
I have hijacked this discussion because maybe the previous topic title is not getting the attention I think it should. I my mind, what was [i]reportedly[/i] said by Allen Faraday of Buhsmaster is huge and cannot go unnoticed!!! Here is a link to the article of concern: [url]www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/911252/posts[/url] Again, keeping in mind the source (Portland Press Herald), two of Faraday's comments stuck out like a sore thumb: [b]But Bushmaster is less worried about an extension. "From our point of view, extending the ban is probably OK," Faraday said.[/b] [b]The House version of the bill would strengthen the current law by including weapons modified to get around the ban, such as Bushmaster's Superlight Carbine. Faraday said he wasn't familiar with the House bill, but said, "If it makes sense, then we certainly will consider it."[/b] WTF!!! This made my freakin' blood boil when I read it! The AWB isn't about the "evil" features of an AR-15 type rifle - it's about my right to own a firearm per the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES!!! I don't give a GD what kind of gun it is - I DO NOT view any gun ban as, "OK." What in the hell was this guy thinking when he said that? It is amazing to me that BM has asked it customers for help (in which I have obliged) with preventing frivolous lawsuits against the firearms industry then turns around and spits in our faces with kind of BS. Is he kidding himself? The AWB is a veiled attempt by the anti-gun rights groups to get their foot in the door. It is only one attempt [b]of many others to come[/b] toward complete gun confiscation. Ask Mr. Faraday how that will affect BM's bottomline then? No kidding, I just bought a BM 20" A3 Target rifle last Wednesday. Now, maybe I should have waited. I am livid over this. Mr. Faraday's comments need to be confirmed, denied or clarified by BM. I understand and agree in the earlier discussion [url]www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=186405[/url] that BM has been a good friend to gun owners and strong supporter of gun rights. However, folks like Mr. Faraday had better not underestimate how a majority of us here on ARFCOM view our rights regarding guns - they, "shall not be infringed." The gun control issue goes way beyond my beloved AR-15(s) and a few features that I am deprived of because of the AWB! If indeed he did say it and it wasn't taken out of context, they have lost a customer. IMO, this puts Glock's support of ballistic fingerprinting to shame!
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 8:31:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/14/2003 8:33:45 AM EDT by mr_wilson]
As someone writing letters and making phone calls for everything I'm worth to see that the un-constitutional '94 AWB, sunsets, (even to the point of impersonating "concerned" persons who don't exist, and sending letters in their name to increase their (reps and senators) mail volume). I'm concerned..... Should this turn out to be verbatim comments, I will not be purchasing anymore BushMaster rifles, uppers, parts or accessories. Waiting for the smoke to clear, Mike
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 8:41:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/14/2003 8:42:14 AM EDT by SteyrAUG]
This combined with the fact that they are now selling the Professional Ordinance Carbon 15 under the Bushmaster name is not a good sign. I think I'll deal with Armalite and Rock River exclusively until I hear different.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 8:51:03 AM EDT
Let them know how you feel about it, click here. [url]http://www.bushmaster.com/documents/feedback.htm[/url] or call them at 1-800-883-6229
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 8:58:55 AM EDT
I posted this in another forum. I live 15 minutes from Bushmaster and own one. I called his office and got his Secretary (he was in a "meeting"). I think I posted this first at several websites (www.battlerifles.com and www.packing.org) and called my NRA rep. He did not seem too concerned...WTF? He directed me to call NRA's legislative branch at 703-267-3820. I will keep calling Bushmaster until I get a real clear position statement from them.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 9:00:42 AM EDT
It would seem that BM thinks that the AW Ban doesn't affect their bottom line. What they don't realize is that our opinion and patronage of them DOES affect their bottom line. I'd like to hear more than one release though. Maybe we can have the BM rep tell us the official BM stance?
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 9:08:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/14/2003 9:13:37 AM EDT by Johnphin]
Well poop. I thought that very same thing when I read that article, but I thought that maybe I was just missing something. Perhaps he meant it would be okay for their business? That's the only thing that I can think. For instance, reporter asks: "What will you do if they continue the ban?! Will it mean the end of Bushmaster?! Is it the end of the world as you know it?" He responds: "No, I think that from our point of view, extending the ban is probably OK. We'll still be able to sell good, safe, fireams to the public, in spite of such a stupid law." Reporter says: "But the new law is even stricter, it's going to ban even your current guns! Are you going to try and redesign your guns so that they comply with the current law that's being proposed?!" Bushmaster: "I'm not familiar with the House's version of the proposed law, so I don't know what changes might have to be made. If we can change our design so that our guns meet the requirements of the law, and if it makes sense, then we certainly will consider it." Obviosly, it might not have gone down this way, but I wouldn't be too surprised if it did.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 9:14:27 AM EDT
I just spoke with someone at Bushmaster, he said that Faraday was misquoted and didn't say that. Bushmaster is putting a notice about this on thier website.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 9:16:11 AM EDT
I'm a Bushmaster fan. However if this is true, I hope they go the way of the dinosaur. I'd bet they're trying to be politically correct because of the DC Sniper/lawsuit BS. I favored buying Bushmaster parts and accessories because of their difficult situation, even though their parts/accessories are way too high. No more! And what AP1776 said about his NRA rep is why I am very ambivalent about renewing my membership. TS
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 9:22:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/14/2003 11:05:39 AM EDT by Energizer]
With the sniper shootings, you would think Bushmaster would be against the AWB renewal since it did not affect their weapon being used anyway, yet it was clearly mistaken as an assault rifle in the press.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 9:23:51 AM EDT
Hello. I have been a bushmaster fan for a long time. I have bought several of your products and spent several hundred dollars. I am totally satisfied with their quality. However, due to some positions expressed by vice president of administration Allen Faraday I may not be recommending or purchasing bushmaster products anymore. The comments were made regarding the future of the 1994 AW ban. I find Bushmasters Apathy towards the AW ban very discouraging. The explosion in ar15 sales the end of the ban should cause should be more than enough reason to support it, but more importantly American gun owners expect companies they support to stand up for their rights. One does not have to look far to find companies that sold out American gun owners and suffered decreased sales, or even all out boycott. AR15 owners tend to be some of the most aggressive gun-rights advocates, and AR15 owners as a whole will not let support of a new AW ban “slip under the radar.” The entire firearms community would be deeply saddened if Bushmasters support of unconstitutional gun control legislation requires an end of patronage of a manufacturer with such a fine product Concerned gun owner Matt Doherty
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Link Posted: 5/14/2003 9:26:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/14/2003 11:04:52 AM EDT by Energizer]
Originally Posted By Ken226: I just spoke with someone at Bushmaster, he said that Faraday was misquoted and didn't say that. Bushmaster is putting a notice about this on thier website.
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The damage is done... See what happens when the press misquotes someone? Also, the Busmaster used in the sniper shooting case was mistaken for an assault rifle, yet the press NEVER bothered to correct their pre-ban images and/or make vocal statements, if any, to correct their errors.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 9:31:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 9:49:45 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 9:59:41 AM EDT
Yeah, get a kick out of seeing some people friggin fly off the handle as quickly as you can. Did ya sell all of your Bushies yet? Take a loss? Perhaps a double check before such a reaction might be in order. If some still want to sell their Bushmasters, me and some others here will gladly find a spot in our safes. My Bushy is staying right where it is for good. Best gun I own. The whole human race right now reminds me of the characters in the Monty Python flick "The Life of Brian". Quick to react, slow to think, fingers pointing in every direction. Changing allegience like the wind changes direction.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 10:00:28 AM EDT
The press said he said it, it must be true. I think I'll wait for Bushmasters response concerning this article before I condemn them.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 10:04:23 AM EDT
Bushmaster's Response is on their website!!!!!
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 10:04:29 AM EDT
Bushmaster has responded. [url]http://www.bushmaster.com/[/url] Imagine that, he was misquoted by the Fing press... I can't believe it. Johnphin had it on the nose.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 10:14:03 AM EDT
[url]http://www.bushmaster.com/[/url] [size=4]Bushmaster Firearms has always been a proud and strong supporter of the Second Amendment and an individuals right to access, own and use firearms. Bushmaster has fought the anti-gun movement continually in their constant efforts to eliminate firearms from our society. We have committed a great deal of our resources to support this effort and will continue to do so. Unfortunately, the anti-gun movement finds a great deal of favor in much of the press with their bias and slanted reporting. Bushmaster has always tried to be open and honest with the press in an effort to help them see the other side and to educate them on the real issues. Often the real story is left out or slanted in an attempt to feed the anti-gun agenda. In a May 14th article in a local newspaper, regarding the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban and its sunset provision, the reporter took totally out of context what Mr. Faraday said and slanted the article in a way that made it appear that Bushmaster was in support of extending the Ban. One of the quotes that was taken out of context and was incomplete was "From our point of view, extending the ban is probably OK, in terms of affecting our sales, but we have always supported legislation protecting gun rights, including the Assault Weapons Ban sunset provision." The reporter asked how Bushmaster dealt with the ban in the first place and how we were able to continue our business. The quote that we would consider supporting the bill that would strengthen the current Assault Weapons Ban law was totally mischaracterized. The discussion was about how far apart the pro-gun groups and the anti-gun groups are in trying to understand each other, and that if the anti-gun groups would propose ideas or suggestions that made sense, then we would consider them, but instead their entire effort is to shutdown the industry. The firearms industry's ongoing battle with the well-financed anti-gun groups creates an atmosphere of absolute non-understanding and non-compromise on both sides. From the point of view of the firearms industry, it has become an issue of survival. As long as the press continues to distort and slant the issues, and the anti-gun groups are determined to destroy the industry, then there never will be any meaningful discussion of the issues. [/size=4]
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 10:16:52 AM EDT
Fromt he Bushmaster webpage:
Bushmaster Firearms has always been a proud and strong supporter of the Second Amendment and an individuals right to access, own and use firearms. Bushmaster has fought the anti-gun movement continually in their constant efforts to eliminate firearms from our society. We have committed a great deal of our resources to support this effort and will continue to do so. Unfortunately, the anti-gun movement finds a great deal of favor in much of the press with their bias and slanted reporting. Bushmaster has always tried to be open and honest with the press in an effort to help them see the other side and to educate them on the real issues. Often the real story is left out or slanted in an attempt to feed the anti-gun agenda. In a May 14th article in a local newspaper, regarding the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban and its sunset provision, the reporter took totally out of context what Mr. Faraday said and slanted the article in a way that made it appear that Bushmaster was in support of extending the Ban. One of the quotes that was taken out of context and was incomplete was "From our point of view, extending the ban is probably OK, in terms of affecting our sales, but we have always supported legislation protecting gun rights, including the Assault Weapons Ban sunset provision." The reporter asked how Bushmaster dealt with the ban in the first place and how we were able to continue our business. The quote that we would consider supporting the bill that would strengthen the current Assault Weapons Ban law was totally mischaracterized. The discussion was about how far apart the pro-gun groups and the anti-gun groups are in trying to understand each other, and that if the anti-gun groups would propose ideas or suggestions that made sense, then we would consider them, but instead their entire effort is to shutdown the industry. The firearms industry's ongoing battle with the well-financed anti-gun groups creates an atmosphere of absolute non-understanding and non-compromise on both sides. From the point of view of the firearms industry, it has become an issue of survival. As long as the press continues to distort and slant the issues, and the anti-gun groups are determined to destroy the industry, then there never will be any meaningful discussion of the issues.
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Link Posted: 5/14/2003 10:57:12 AM EDT
My brother in law used to work for the Portland Press Herald as a senior business reporter. He left when his editor told him to RADICALLY change his stories to a HIGHLY biased editorial policy. He was vividly confronted with the fact that the media is extremely biased toward liberal politics and will ignore facts and parts of interviews that do not support their pre-ordained positions. He left the paper to start his own publishing company and never looked back. Bushmaster never said what they are reported as having said and the Portland Press Herald will never admit that until a lawyer drops a lawsuit on the publisher's desk.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 11:05:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/14/2003 11:31:35 AM EDT by arptspt72]
Originally Posted By Red_Label: Yeah, get a kick out of seeing some people friggin fly off the handle as quickly as you can. Did ya sell all of your Bushies yet? Take a loss? Perhaps a double check before such a reaction might be in order. If some still want to sell their Bushmasters, me and some others here will gladly find a spot in our safes. My Bushy is staying right where it is for good. Best gun I own. The whole human race right now reminds me of the characters in the Monty Python flick "The Life of Brian". Quick to react, slow to think, fingers pointing in every direction. Changing allegience like the wind changes direction.
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Sittin' on your ivory tower up in Montana are ya, Red-Label? Why don't you review the posts. I don't think anybody said they were going to sell their Bushmaster rather, they would not support BM in the future. Futhermore, nearly all the posts, including mine, included a disclaimer to the effect of, "if this is true..." By the way, who's changing their allegience? Maybe you are willing to compromise your 2nd Amendment rights but I am not. The unfortunate misquotes attributed to Mr. Faraday at Bushmaster, if true, would have, IMO, been selling us out. My allegience is to the 2nd Amendment (among other things)not Bushmaster. Which brings me to Shotar's comments:
Lets see, one press report and the whole internet community is flying off the handle, jumping to conclusions etc. Bushmaster made it to the big leagues because of the current AWB, not in spite of it. Remember, they redesigned when Colt would not. Therefore, from a business perspective a continuation in the current form would of course make little business difference to them. This seems like an alarm with no fire. While this may be a constitutional issue for some, it is not for others. It is a matter of practicality and how to stay in business, and how to keep feeding the families of their employees. I read little to be alarmed about in edited quotes. I'm keeping my Bushies.
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For better or worse, THIS IS a constiutional issue for the gun-makers, Shotar. While I am optimistic otherwise, just suppose the AWB is STRENGTHED to the point that the AR-15's BM produces are effectively banned from being owned by the general citizenry. You're going to tell me BM's business won't be affected? Just where does the 2nd Amendment say, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed...unless they are mean looking black "assault rifles"." Think about that. That said, I am very happy to read Bushmaster's response (Johnphin, sure you weren't the idiot reporter who misquoted Mr. Faraday? [:)]). I was hoping this was indeed the truth. Look, like mr_wilson, I spend a lot time writing to my gov't representatives and volunteering to assist, and joining those organizations that support my values and beliefs. Gun control happens to be one issue that I am very passionate about. When I see the likes Glock and Smith and Wesson (and for awhile Colt) pandering to the anti-gun crowd, I get PO'd. Ask Smith and Wesson if it was a good "business" decision to team up with Slick Willy. Like I said, BM has been a good friend to gun owners and strong supporter of the 2nd Amendment. Perhaps I should have given them more benefit of the doubt but it is a moot point now after reading their response. While gun control is not the only hot-button issue out there, to me it exemplfies the biggest problem in this country today - blaming everyone or everything (in this case a gun) for an individual's personal responsibility.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 11:06:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 11:23:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/14/2003 11:33:32 AM EDT by Red_Label]
Originally Posted By arptspt72: Sittin' on your ivory tower up in Montana are ya, Red-Label? Why don't you review the posts. I don't think anybody said they were going to sell their Bushmaster rather, they would not support BM in the future. Futhermore, nearly all the posts, including mine, included a disclaimer to the effect of, "if this is true..." By the way, who's changing their allegience? Maybe you are willing to compromise your 2nd Amendment rights but I am not. The unfortunate misquotes attributed to Mr. Faraday at Bushmaster, if true, would have, IMO, been selling us out. My allegience is to the 2nd Amendment not Bushmaster.
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Sittin down there in yer outhouse in Colorado aye, arptspt72? This whole thing obviously has NOTHING to do with the 2nd Ammendment. Why? Because it has to do with the 1st AMMENDMENT! Yeah, you know... the one that says we have the right to say anything, so matter how WRONG, slanderous, malicious, whatever it may be. Yeah, I realize that the paper may in fact be held accountable for it, but they probably won't because they are PC. Because I was pretty sure that the whole thing was TOTAL BS, I wanted to point out how quick YOU and some others were to believe the story without checking a little deeper. I do that all the time -- fly off the handle about some story. But NOT when it concerns someone who I deem to be an ally in MY allegance to the 2nd Ammendment and Constitution of the US. And Bushmaster IS AN ALLY in that. So I gave them the benefit of the doubt. Some here were ready to hang 'em posse style and ride out. Ask questions FIRST, then hang 'em if they're guilty. NOT the other way around. As far as those who'd sell their Bushmasters... there's a similar thread over in the AR Forum where some where ready to sell their Bushmasters to the first bidder. And some where glad they'd already done so and picked up an "Oly". I'd have to be PRETTY disgusted with Bushmaster to hold up an Oly as a superior choice... Edited to add: I apologize for the tone of my response above. I was flying-off the handle. We are both on the same side here. It's just that from the get-go on this story I had my suspicions about that supposed "quote" from the guy at Bushmaster. So it bugged me that so many others here didn't seem to doubt it as much as I. You're not the enemy here. Nor is Bushmaster. THEY are the enemy... [:)]
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 11:40:30 AM EDT
Contacted the writer Matt Wickenheiser at Portland Press Herald 1-800-442-6036(extension is 6316). He stands by the article as written and stated that there were no partial quotes at all. He was surprised that Bushmaster is stating otherwise on their website. You guys better call him....keep the pressure on.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 11:57:18 AM EDT
Bushmaster needs to get their priorities straight.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 11:58:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AmericanPatriot1776: Contacted the writer Matt Wickenheiser at Portland Press Herald 1-800-442-6036(extension is 6316). He stands by the article as written and stated that there were no partial quotes at all. He was surprised that Bushmaster is stating otherwise on their website. You guys better call him....keep the pressure on.
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If he did misquote on purpose, of course he will be "surprised"... they don't want a lawsuit.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 12:23:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/14/2003 12:26:05 PM EDT by arptspt72]
Sittin down there in yer outhouse in Colorado aye, arptspt72? This whole thing obviously has NOTHING to do with the 2nd Ammendment. Why? Because it has to do with the 1st AMMENDMENT! Yeah, you know... the one that says we have the right to say anything, so matter how WRONG, slanderous, malicious, whatever it may be. Yeah, I realize that the paper may in fact be held accountable for it, but they probably won't because they are PC. Because I was pretty sure that the whole thing was TOTAL BS, I wanted to point out how quick YOU and some others were to believe the story without checking a little deeper. I do that all the time -- fly off the handle about some story. But NOT when it concerns someone who I deem to be an ally in MY allegance to the 2nd Ammendment and Constitution of the US. And Bushmaster IS AN ALLY in that. So I gave them the benefit of the doubt. Some here were ready to hang 'em posse style and ride out. Ask questions FIRST, then hang 'em if they're guilty. NOT the other way around. As far as those who'd sell their Bushmasters... there's a similar thread over in the AR Forum where some where ready to sell their Bushmasters to the first bidder. And some where glad they'd already done so and picked up an "Oly". I'd have to be PRETTY disgusted with Bushmaster to hold up an Oly as a superior choice... Edited to add: I apologize for the tone of my response above. I was flying-off the handle. We are both on the same side here. It's just that from the get-go on this story I had my suspicions about that supposed "quote" from the guy at Bushmaster. So it bugged me that so many others here didn't seem to doubt it as much as I. You're not the enemy here. Nor is Bushmaster. THEY are the enemy... [:)]
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Naw...actually, I'm in my newly refinished bathroom sittin' on a nice, porcelain stool. Unlike you fellas up there in Montana, we got ourselves indoor plumbin' down here in Colorada... [;)] No need to apoligize Red_Label. I have a tendency to fly off the handle as well. This only goes to show how passionate we both about our beloved firearms. And, you're right...THEY are the enemy, not you or BM. Like I said above, perhaps I jumped-the-gun, so to speak, on leveling a quick judgement against BM. For that I was wrong. I typically don't trust the media so I don't know why I was so quick to believe this story - I would have never guessed something like this would have been said by BM and it caught me off guard. It's just in today's world, I am amazed and disappointed as to how quick people abandon their beliefs, and therefore their integrity (as far as I am concerned), for the almighty dollar and political gains. To me, it goes much deeper than money or being PC - sounds like you would agree. AmericanPatriot is now saying that the reporter is sticking by his story. BM's reponse was what I wanted to hear and, for me, it leaves no room for doubt about where THEIR allegience lies. That is good news.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 12:39:23 PM EDT
No sweat man. My outhouse is in my house. I understand why gun people are so willing to accept another story where we've been sold-out in this day and age. I do. S&W, Glock, and others have made it believable. But I needed more proof than that story before I became disgusted with BM. I have a lot of money and passion invested in my Bushy and I would hate to have to suffer the bitter disappointment of them selling-out too. Thank goodness it appears to be a farce.
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 12:35:12 PM EDT
I'm guilty too... Saw the post to respond to Bushmaster, so like a good Team Member I flashed out an email to Bushmaster telling them how diappointed I was... I did qualify my disgust by saying unless I hear a "clarification" from them, or a an outright retraction, I'd be shopping somewhere else. Then, (4) posts later I read that Bushmaster "clarified" the issue - They were misquoted... Dooooh!!! I immediately replied to their email response and apologized. Knew there was a reason I bought a Bushmaster, never doubt them again... Sucker punched by the media again... Freedom of speech, does not give them the right to lie... Damned Liberals!!! Fvkng Liberal Media!!! There's surely enough people out there that have not made up their minds, and some punk ass reporter sways them with his slicky worded article. [sniper2]
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