User Panel
Posted: 5/12/2003 1:41:08 PM EDT
[url]http://www.bushmaster.com/westernbfi.asp[/url]
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Okay. Is this a joke? Or did you figure out how to make the Carbon-15 work? If so, I'm gonna have to look into this. Edited to add a question. Will the new uppers work on the original Carbon-15 lowers? Or are they for mil spec lowers? |
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When will the pistol be available, looks interesting. Any specs on it , looked around could not find anything.
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Hey I have one from Prf Ordinance and they are great, really light too, only 3-4 lbs. if I'm correct. Great for a long haul.
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Will you guys be handling warranty issues with existing PO products?
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Quoted: When will the pistol be available, looks interesting. Any specs on it , looked around could not find anything. View Quote It says at the bottom "next few months".... Ought to be just in time to put a Trijicon Tri Pwoer on...[:)] |
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Why can't they put some king of light weight wrap on those pistol barrels to make them look good?
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Gee, hope that Bushmaster's engineers can make some quality and reliability adjustments to the Professional Ordinance product.
Fine idea, bad execution. |
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hmmmm, bushmaster quality, carbon fiber light weight...must have one!
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The problems with the Carbon series was in the action/bolt, right? The carbon fiber bodywork did not cause any of the problems so with Bushmaster mechanicals it should work fine, right?
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Now, if these were Carbon-14 rifles, they would be truly hot. [;D]
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Quoted: Gee, hope that Bushmaster's engineers can make some quality and reliability adjustments to the Professional Ordinance product. Fine idea, bad execution. View Quote my thoughts exactly. |
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Cyanide,
I believe that putting a shroud or some kind of forward grip on the barrel allowing you to grip the hot barrel with your weak hand would be illegal now. I thought I read sowewhere that the '94 crime bill made forward grips of any kind illegal on anything that is post '94 crime bill and classified as a pistol. That's why you saw all the postban TEC-9 variants without the heat shroud on the barrel. Being as it only weighs 46 ounces it is in fact a pistol. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please. |
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Quoted: Why can't they put some king of light weight wrap on those pistol barrels to make them look good? View Quote The law. The only thing that can encirle the barrel is a slide. |
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That thing was a piece of crap by design. Virtually nothing is interchangeable with the milspec parts.
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Please O' Please!! Make one with a standard gas system, bolt group and buffer. And you might consider getting rid of the tight chambers except for a specific "match" version.
My two cents. |
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Hope you can remove the bugs. Profesional Ordnance turned out some real crap.
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Quoted: Cyanide, I believe that putting a shroud or some kind of forward grip on the barrel allowing you to grip the hot barrel with your weak hand would be illegal now. I thought I read sowewhere that the '94 crime bill made forward grips of any kind illegal on anything that is post '94 crime bill and classified as a pistol. That's why you saw all the postban TEC-9 variants without the heat shroud on the barrel. Being as it only weighs 46 ounces it is in fact a pistol. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please. View Quote You are correct sir. This is also why the new SW89 HK clones have no foward grip on them. This explains why they look so gay. Bushmaster: We have faith in you guys. If anyone can take the Carbon 15 idea and make it work its you guys. And if you need any help with that frivolous lawsuit just call, I graduate from law school on Saturday and I'd love to help out. [;)] |
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Interesting!
What kind of warranty will there be on the BUSHMASTER marked ones? mug |
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April Fools Day was last month Jarrod.
Tommorrow your going to post the real new products, like a 16" lightwieght post ban Brl, and available 1:7 Brls on all models......right? cause this has to be a joke. |
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I would buy one of the pistol ones. I have always wanted an AR pistol.
Does the pistol have a detachable mag? Imagine how much fun they could have if the AWB gets shot down. |
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Since you cannot have a pstol grip I bet an under barrel flashlight, something about the size of a mini-mag lite, would make that thing real handy. [;)]
Bob |
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would 75grn TAP rounds do any good in the pistol version? What use would a .223 pistol be anyways? Now if it was in 9mm............
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Quoted: Since you cannot have a pstol grip I bet an under barrel flashlight, something about the size of a mini-mag lite, would make that thing real handy. [;)] View Quote Don't know about a penlight mag-lite, but a C or D-sized light attached under it would sure do a nice job of, um, performing several important functions... |
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Jarrod,
Your in for some "Interesting Times". Give us a call if you need any help. Shawn Nealon CEO Cavalry Arms Corp. [url]http://www.az-precision.com[/url] Our Mold/Plastics Shop |
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I think this is gonna be cool.
Will you sell just the uppers and lowers? Or, build one with 16" ULW barrel. TXL |
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I gotta say that of all the guns I have sold at the retail and LE level, I only feel like one of my customers got a bad deal and that was the guy I sold a Pro-ord Carbon-15.
If bushy can turn that peice o crap around I would be very impressed, and even think about buying one. Good Luck guys you will need it. |
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I have a pro ordinance pistol, no problems yet!
I am very happy now that spare parts will be available. Way to go Bushmaster! |
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Quoted: Or did you figure out how to make the Carbon-15 work? View Quote I do believe PO got most all of the problems worked out. The days of broken bolts are long behind us. I'm thrilled that BM has chosen to buy PO. I just bought a late model Type 20. Less 4.1 lbs with optics. It's been running pretty damn well. Fun gun, incredibly lightweight. Read my [url=http://groups.msn.com/ThePennsylvaniaAR15ShootersSite/carbon15review.msnw][b]Professional Ordnance Carbon 15 Type 20 Review[/b][/url] [img]http://groups.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=MyPhotos_GetPubPhoto&PhotoID=nKwAAAMINGP7Y1UOqV8TIVY!xM2K6cbrhaCLSu*KIy*IZaAGw9shhotO6M2n4YI3PZf3kLgHrMtOP530FAQ8wcA[/img] |
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Put an integrated rail on the lower part of the handguard that will accept pistol grips and lights and you will have a growing concern.
match with pencil 16" schwing. |
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Quoted: match with pencil 16" schwing. View Quote Uh, how much thinner would you like it? |
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Jarrod......Let me be the first to offer up my services as a field tester should the need arise.
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What about a polymer barrel, bolt, carrier, and receiver? Get that puppy down to 12 or 13 ounces. [;D]
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If this thing comes with A1 stock length or less, chrome lined barrel and 5.56 chamber in a non-stainless barrel with equal reliability to your standard XM-15 line, I will buy one tomorrow.
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I saw fightforyourrights shoot this same rifle at the range. He didn't seem to have any problems with it. When I picked it up it seemed pretty hot though. It was really light. It seemed like a fun shooter.
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My best advice to Bushmaster is to simplify the PO design...
I believe PO's undoing came from over-engineering a simple design... Everything is "too tight" All the tolerances need to be loosened up, and the upper receiver needs to be stiffened... You can actually squeeze the upper enough (by hand) to stop the bolt carrier... The locking lugs/barrel extension, upper receiver bore, etc... are all too tight to function with any reliability... Even the damn ejection port is too small...I actually had to open up the port in mine, to get it to eject reliably... Other issues... I broke a bolt in half after two shots out of a brand new gun... After making a ton of improvements to a type 97, Including a modified USGI bolt, I actually got to shoot several mags without any trouble... Then the screw-in gas tube broke off flush with the front site base... I gave up after replacing the tube... Traded the gun on something else... I will NEVER own another, unless it's given to me... Some will say the PO gun is great... I suspect those are the folks that haven't yet shot it enough to break it... I'm sure Bushmaster is more than capable of perfecting this ultralight concept, I just don't want to see Bushmaster inherit all the bad PR along wth it... Good luck BM, you have your hands full... |
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Quoted: Will you sell just the uppers and lowers? View Quote What are you going to do with them? You can't interchange them with any other uppers or lowers, so what's the point? I sold a couple of these when I was selling guns, and NONE of them ever worked. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Will you sell just the uppers and lowers? View Quote What are you going to do with them? You can't interchange them with any other uppers or lowers, so what's the point? I sold a couple of these when I was selling guns, and NONE of them ever worked. View Quote Actually PO did make an upper that would mate up with mil spec lowers. I saw them for sale through CDNN for around $450.00 (maybe less)IIRC about 2 years ago. However, PO would not warranty any uppers not sold directly by them. They had a manufacturers forum here at the time and refused to reply to requests for an explanation of this policy. I was really interested but scared away by the stories about the many problems with bolts, ejectors, extractors, etc. Not to mention lack of warranty coverage. If Bushmaster can back this product and the mil spec compatible uppers are available, I will be buying some. (Can't buy AR lowers/rifles in CA or I would buy as many complete rifles as I could.) |
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You can have the best warranty in the world, but if your product is shit, your product is shit. In my opinion the PO had too many problems NOT to be design related.
Hyundai has a 10/100,000 warranty, do you drive one? |
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Quoted: Quoted: match with pencil 16" schwing. View Quote Uh, how much thinner would you like it? View Quote Point taken. I was referring to the HB M-4 cut barrels that are all the rage now. |
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No, no Hyundai (rhymes with Sunday) driver here. Warranties may not mean much, but if a major force in firearms manufacturing such as Bushmaster is willing to purchase, develop and market this product, knowing full well the previous problems and reputation of said product, I'm willing to bet that they have worked out the difficulties associated with the product, and will back what they sell. (How's that for a run on sentence?) I hope. |
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