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Posted: 5/12/2003 1:41:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 1:45:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/12/2003 1:47:50 PM EDT by operatorerror]
Okay. Is this a joke? Or did you figure out how to make the Carbon-15 work? If so, I'm gonna have to look into this. Edited to add a question. Will the new uppers work on the original Carbon-15 lowers? Or are they for mil spec lowers?
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 1:45:42 PM EDT
When will the pistol be available, looks interesting. Any specs on it , looked around could not find anything.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 1:46:19 PM EDT
Hey I have one from Prf Ordinance and they are great, really light too, only 3-4 lbs. if I'm correct. Great for a long haul.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 1:48:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 1:48:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cyanide: When will the pistol be available, looks interesting. Any specs on it , looked around could not find anything.
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It says at the bottom "next few months".... Ought to be just in time to put a Trijicon Tri Pwoer on...[:)]
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 1:51:32 PM EDT
Why can't they put some king of light weight wrap on those pistol barrels to make them look good?
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 1:54:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 2:04:38 PM EDT
hmmmm, bushmaster quality, carbon fiber light weight...must have one!
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 2:05:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 2:08:37 PM EDT
Now, if these were Carbon-14 rifles, they would be truly hot. [;D]
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 2:10:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Paul: Gee, hope that Bushmaster's engineers can make some quality and reliability adjustments to the Professional Ordinance product. Fine idea, bad execution.
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my thoughts exactly.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 2:30:05 PM EDT
Cyanide, I believe that putting a shroud or some kind of forward grip on the barrel allowing you to grip the hot barrel with your weak hand would be illegal now. I thought I read sowewhere that the '94 crime bill made forward grips of any kind illegal on anything that is post '94 crime bill and classified as a pistol. That's why you saw all the postban TEC-9 variants without the heat shroud on the barrel. Being as it only weighs 46 ounces it is in fact a pistol. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 2:30:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cyanide: Why can't they put some king of light weight wrap on those pistol barrels to make them look good?
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The law. The only thing that can encirle the barrel is a slide.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 2:34:21 PM EDT
Thanks that answers that, dumb laws suck.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 2:48:17 PM EDT
That thing was a piece of crap by design. Virtually nothing is interchangeable with the milspec parts.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 3:10:55 PM EDT
Please O' Please!! Make one with a standard gas system, bolt group and buffer. And you might consider getting rid of the tight chambers except for a specific "match" version. My two cents.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 3:18:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 3:20:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 3:33:53 PM EDT
Interesting! What kind of warranty will there be on the BUSHMASTER marked ones? mug
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 4:18:34 PM EDT
April Fools Day was last month Jarrod. Tommorrow your going to post the real new products, like a 16" lightwieght post ban Brl, and available 1:7 Brls on all models......right? cause this has to be a joke.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 4:29:26 PM EDT
I would buy one of the pistol ones. I have always wanted an AR pistol. Does the pistol have a detachable mag? Imagine how much fun they could have if the AWB gets shot down.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 4:30:04 PM EDT
Since you cannot have a pstol grip I bet an under barrel flashlight, something about the size of a mini-mag lite, would make that thing real handy. [;)] Bob
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 4:32:54 PM EDT
would 75grn TAP rounds do any good in the pistol version? What use would a .223 pistol be anyways? Now if it was in 9mm............
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 4:44:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By KY-Bob: Since you cannot have a pstol grip I bet an under barrel flashlight, something about the size of a mini-mag lite, would make that thing real handy. [;)]
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Don't know about a penlight mag-lite, but a C or D-sized light attached under it would sure do a nice job of, um, performing several important functions...
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 5:03:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 6:16:36 PM EDT
I think this is gonna be cool. Will you sell just the uppers and lowers? Or, build one with 16" ULW barrel. TXL
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 7:06:35 PM EDT
I gotta say that of all the guns I have sold at the retail and LE level, I only feel like one of my customers got a bad deal and that was the guy I sold a Pro-ord Carbon-15. If bushy can turn that peice o crap around I would be very impressed, and even think about buying one. Good Luck guys you will need it.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 7:12:28 PM EDT
I have a pro ordinance pistol, no problems yet! I am very happy now that spare parts will be available. Way to go Bushmaster!
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 7:34:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/12/2003 7:48:44 PM EDT by fight4yourrights]
Originally Posted By operatorerror: Or did you figure out how to make the Carbon-15 work?
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I do believe PO got most all of the problems worked out. The days of broken bolts are long behind us. I'm thrilled that BM has chosen to buy PO. I just bought a late model Type 20. Less 4.1 lbs with optics. It's been running pretty damn well. Fun gun, incredibly lightweight. Read my [url=http://groups.msn.com/ThePennsylvaniaAR15ShootersSite/carbon15review.msnw][b]Professional Ordnance Carbon 15 Type 20 Review[/b][/url] [img]http://groups.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=MyPhotos_GetPubPhoto&PhotoID=nKwAAAMINGP7Y1UOqV8TIVY!xM2K6cbrhaCLSu*KIy*IZ­aAGw9shhotO6M2n4YI3PZf3kLgHrMtOP530FAQ8wcA[/img]
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 7:42:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 7:49:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Sylvan: match with pencil 16" schwing.
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Uh, how much thinner would you like it?
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 7:55:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 7:55:10 PM EDT
What about a polymer barrel, bolt, carrier, and receiver? Get that puppy down to 12 or 13 ounces. [;D]
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 8:02:57 PM EDT
If this thing comes with A1 stock length or less, chrome lined barrel and 5.56 chamber in a non-stainless barrel with equal reliability to your standard XM-15 line, I will buy one tomorrow.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 11:17:17 PM EDT
I can hardly contain myself!
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 11:31:18 PM EDT
I saw fightforyourrights shoot this same rifle at the range. He didn't seem to have any problems with it. When I picked it up it seemed pretty hot though. It was really light. It seemed like a fun shooter.
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 12:33:43 AM EDT
My best advice to Bushmaster is to simplify the PO design... I believe PO's undoing came from over-engineering a simple design... Everything is "too tight" All the tolerances need to be loosened up, and the upper receiver needs to be stiffened... You can actually squeeze the upper enough (by hand) to stop the bolt carrier... The locking lugs/barrel extension, upper receiver bore, etc... are all too tight to function with any reliability... Even the damn ejection port is too small...I actually had to open up the port in mine, to get it to eject reliably... Other issues... I broke a bolt in half after two shots out of a brand new gun... After making a ton of improvements to a type 97, Including a modified USGI bolt, I actually got to shoot several mags without any trouble... Then the screw-in gas tube broke off flush with the front site base... I gave up after replacing the tube... Traded the gun on something else... I will NEVER own another, unless it's given to me... Some will say the PO gun is great... I suspect those are the folks that haven't yet shot it enough to break it... I'm sure Bushmaster is more than capable of perfecting this ultralight concept, I just don't want to see Bushmaster inherit all the bad PR along wth it... Good luck BM, you have your hands full...
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 2:30:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TxLewis: Will you sell just the uppers and lowers?
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What are you going to do with them? You can't interchange them with any other uppers or lowers, so what's the point? I sold a couple of these when I was selling guns, and NONE of them ever worked.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 12:54:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By norman74:
Originally Posted By TxLewis: Will you sell just the uppers and lowers?
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What are you going to do with them? You can't interchange them with any other uppers or lowers, so what's the point? I sold a couple of these when I was selling guns, and NONE of them ever worked.
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Actually PO did make an upper that would mate up with mil spec lowers. I saw them for sale through CDNN for around $450.00 (maybe less)IIRC about 2 years ago. However, PO would not warranty any uppers not sold directly by them. They had a manufacturers forum here at the time and refused to reply to requests for an explanation of this policy. I was really interested but scared away by the stories about the many problems with bolts, ejectors, extractors, etc. Not to mention lack of warranty coverage. If Bushmaster can back this product and the mil spec compatible uppers are available, I will be buying some. (Can't buy AR lowers/rifles in CA or I would buy as many complete rifles as I could.)
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 1:33:51 PM EDT
You can have the best warranty in the world, but if your product is shit, your product is shit. In my opinion the PO had too many problems NOT to be design related. Hyundai has a 10/100,000 warranty, do you drive one?
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 1:42:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 1:45:30 PM EDT
No, no Hyundai (rhymes with Sunday) driver here. Warranties may not mean much, but if a major force in firearms manufacturing such as Bushmaster is willing to purchase, develop and market this product, knowing full well the previous problems and reputation of said product, I'm willing to bet that they have worked out the difficulties associated with the product, and will back what they sell. (How's that for a run on sentence?) I hope.
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