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Posted: 5/11/2003 3:42:16 AM EDT
Up until last night, i've believe that AR stands for Armalite and that CAR basically is a Carbine AR One guy is saying that CAR means the [url=http://www.colt.com/law/car.asp]Colt Accuritized Rifle[/url], but it seems the designation also fits the [url=http://www.colt.com/mil/CAR.asp]Colt Automatic Rifle[/url]... Also, the same guy is saying that AR means Automatic Rifle.. In my mind, that could apply to any automatic rifle... The fact that the AR17 is a shotgun and that it was created before Armalite went off to be part of Elisco Tool kinda screws with the other half of his theory (he says that it doesn't count because the Armalite corp. now is different to the Armalite of yesteryear) I'm confused... Help me Nakey
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 4:14:28 AM EDT
AR when it was first registered stood for Armalite rifle. When Colt bought the trademark, they stopped referring to it as an "Armalite rife". "Car-15" Was a nick-name given to carbine versions of the M16 like the XM177 during Vietnam, I don't belive that Colt ever made an Actual select fire "Car" stamped rifle. Colt did make a CAR, "Colt Accuritized Rifle" in the early 90's, but it was no carbine, but since no CAR-15 was trademarked, why not. As for what people think "A" in AR stands for I've heard it all. Some refer to it as Assault Rifle 15, Adventure Rifle 15, Action Rifle 15, but it started with ARmalite
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 5:04:48 AM EDT
From Armalite website. Early Colt AR-15s, their magazines, and their operators manuals were marked with ArmaLite’s name. Colt’s retained the AR-15 designation on commercial rifles. To this day Colt’s has a model designation with the letters AR, which stands for “ArmaLite”.
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Link Posted: 5/11/2003 5:16:04 AM EDT
I read that, and that's my first response.. but he then says
It seems to make sense that Armalite would say AR stands for their name, even on their website. Simply not true. The US Army contends it more than a company wihch was bought in name only. Armalite ceased to exist for a long time, and the ARs you buy now are not the same they used to be. How do I know -- I sold more of them than any of you have ever seen. Colt isnt a smart company, but they never hock products of their own with other's names on them. Do a little more research, and get back to me with more than just self-promotion.
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Thing is that he has nothing to back up his clames...
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 5:32:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 6:59:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/11/2003 6:59:49 AM EDT by natez]
The military never called them "CAR"; I think it was just one of those popular things that took on a life of its own. These pop up very occasionally in the DRMO system (and all get cut up, I think). [>Q] They are usually listed by the military as "SUBMACHINEGUN, 5.56MM." The Army Called them XM177E2, and I believe that the Air Force called them the GAU-2. To the best of my knowledge, the Air Force still uses them in some places where they have not yet been replaced by M4 Carbines. Colt refers to everything by their Colt model #s, and would be confused if you tried to give them any other designation. Colt has made a really baffling number of variations on the AR series. I have a 2-page handout from Colt Armorer's School that lines it all out as of about summer 2002, and everything is categorized by Colt Model Number.
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 7:43:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/11/2003 7:44:53 AM EDT by warlord]
I thought CAR stood for collapsible-stock AR. Maybe someone at WWW.ARMALITE.COM may know if we pose the question over there.
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 7:56:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/11/2003 7:56:57 AM EDT by The_Macallan]
Huh... I thought [b]"AR"[/b] stood for [i]"Go Ahead, Shred The Constitution And Use It To Wipe Your Ass"[/i] and that [b]"CAR"[/b] stood for [i]"Inanimate Objects Are Inherently Evil And Force Otherwise Good People To Become Uncontrollable Mass Murderers"[/i]. Hmmph - Ya' learn something new every day. [:)]
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 7:57:30 AM EDT
Armalite ceased to exist for a long time, and the ARs you buy now are not the same they used to be. How do I know -- I sold more of them than any of you have ever seen. Colt isnt a smart company, but they never hock products of their own with other's names on them. Do a little more research, and get back to me with more than just self-promotion.
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a)This guy sounds a bit like a jackass. b)It's slightly offensive to insult the current Armalite like that. Sure, they bought the name, but look at what they produce with it. Not just standard AR15s, but AR10s, AND the AR-10B and the AR-180B, which is as close as many of us will ever get to those classic rifles. They've earned the Armalite name in my book.
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 8:01:57 AM EDT
Guys, this questions been asked a million times. Ar stands for [b]Ar[/b]malite. Colt bought the design from stoner. Armalite [i]was[/i] a divison of the Fairchild? Aircraft Corp. They closed shop. The name and designs were bought up later on and reopened. AR doesn't stand for assualt rifle, or automatic rifle. C means compact.
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 8:35:53 AM EDT
AR or CAR? AR = Army Rifle CAR = Cheap Army Rifle [flame]
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 8:51:28 AM EDT
From the Black Hawk Down web site: [url]http://inquirer.philly.com/packages/somalia/glos16.asp[/url] CAR-15 - Colt Automatic Rifle 15, an automatic weapon more compact and lightweight than an M-16 that fires a high velocity 5.56mm round
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 8:56:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By natez: They are usually listed by the military as "SUBMACHINEGUN, 5.56MM."
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No they are not, as a submachinegun fires pistol rounds.
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 9:11:08 AM EDT
The term CAR comes from Colt Automatic Rifle. Regardless of what AR stood for under Armalite, when Colt bought the rights, they chnged the name. To build upon what name recognition the weapon had, they added the "C" and changed a word or two. It was strictly a marketing move by Colt. The entire AR-15 system was refered to as the "CAR-15" system and sold under that moniker. This included the rifle, heavy barrel squad weapon, carbine, sub-machine gun, survival rifle, everything was a "CAR-15" because of marketing. When the Army started playing with the submachinegun version as the XM-177 series, the civillian market name managed to transition over and became one of the gun's nicknames along with "shorty" et al. As no one really bought any of the other versions, Colt eventually dropped most and the CAR-15 name applying to other than the one that was used (the Shorty) was forgotten. The CAR-15 name was forever linked to the shorter weapon from then on, even though a whole line of "CAR-15's" had been developed. As the "M16" name became world renown, Colt renamed the remaining guns in the system the "M16A1 weapons system" and included a rifle, carbine (basically an XM-177 with a light weight 14.5" barrel and standard FS), and a heavy barrel squad support version. Again, this was a marketing move to take advantage of the name recognition of "M16A1". I have a Colt catalog of the "M16A1 system". That's the true story of where "CAR" came from. As for what AR stood for, I'd have to think there was "Armalite" in there somewhere when it was in Fairchild, but it's not the same company as today's (which is a perfect example of name recognition at work). Ross
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 9:39:21 AM EDT
And remember that today's Armalite (just a renamed Eagle Arms) has NOTHING to do with the original division of Fairchild Aircraft.
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 10:16:33 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 12:40:19 PM EDT
Just take a look at "The Black Rifle" or "Small Arms of the World" (old 10th ed) or sales literature from the period when Colt was making the thing. They show pictures of the whole line of "CAR-15". They include: CAR-15 smg, CAR-15 carbine, CAR-15 heavy assault rifle M1, CAR-15 heavy assault rifle M2, CAR-15 survival rilfe. I'm looking at the pictures right now as I type this. It was Colt marketing, pure and simple. CAR-15 mearly took hold as a name on the only version to see fielding on a large scale, the XM-177 type, which was the CAR-15 SMG. Colt dropped the CAR-15 name and stuck with the M16 name for marketing, which by then was more recognizable due to Vietnam. CAR-15 has since became synonomous for a carbine version, but it originally covered other types. Ross
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 2:57:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LARRYG:
Originally Posted By natez: They are usually listed by the military as "SUBMACHINEGUN, 5.56MM."
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No they are not, as a submachinegun fires pistol rounds.
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Yes, they are. I am going to beg to differ on this one. The military classifies the M177-series as SMGs. Probably becuase of the short barrels. I know that the "book" definition of a sub-gun is a pistol caliber weapon, but there is the "right" way, the "wrong" way and the "Army" way. For what it is worth, the M231 Port Firing Weapon (an open-bolt no real sights chopped down M16A1) is also called "SUBMACHINEGUN, 5.56MM" by the military. It is just what they call things.
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