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Posted: 5/9/2003 1:55:12 PM EDT
[url]http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=583&ncid=583&e=4&u=/nm/20030509/od_nm/politics_newyork_dc[/url] Idea of Big Apple Secession Rears Its Head, Again Fri May 9, 9:20 AM ET By Ellen Wulfhorst NEW YORK (Reuters) - The last time there was a decent tax revolt here, America was born. This time, New York City could become the nation's 51st state, if a secession proposal by a local councilman succeeds. Simply put, Councilman Peter Vallone Jr. argues, the city pays $3.5 billion more to the state in taxes than it gets in return and can't afford it anymore. 'We need our money back,' he said this week. The timing couldn't be better, he said, as lawmakers in the capital of Albany wrestle over the latest state budget. 'In the past the idea of secession was romantic and maybe cute. Now it may be the only the way for the city to survive,' Vallone said. It's not the first time New York has threatened to pack up and leave. Novelist Norman Mailer argued for secession in his 1969 quixotic mayoral bid. In the 19th century, a pro-slavery mayor proposed New York secede during the U.S. Civil War. But it is no easy task. Vallone's proposal before the city council calls for a ballot referendum asking the public for approval to study secession for two years. Secession would need the approval of the state legislature and, last but certainly not least, the U.S. Congress. Details would be tricky, from designing a new water supply system to a prison system to finding a new name, Vallone admitted. He offered 'Greater New York,' 'Gotham' or 'New Amsterdam' -- the city's name in the seventeenth century. Then there's the issue of changing the American flag to add a 51st star. 'That's a good question. I hadn't thought of that,' he said. 'That could be what sinks the whole thing.' Still, it's more than a folly, Vallone argued. 'We fought a war over secession. It was the Revolutionary War,' he said. Critics argue that New York city on its own could not pay its bills. Mayor Michael Bloomberg dismissed Vallone's idea when it was first suggested, saying: 'New York state is not about to let 50 percent of its revenue go.' Former Mayor Ed Koch, known for his blunt statements, said of the notion: 'It's bullshit. It's a lot of talk about nothing. It's a schmucky idea. I said that when it was first introduced, and it's still schmucky.' Nevertheless, Vallone is unfazed. 'If this effort does nothing else but fix the inequities that exist, then it was successful,' he said.
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 2:01:44 PM EDT
I'm for it, if we can have our guns back.
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 2:06:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 2:18:07 PM EDT
[<]:)]
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 2:20:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By otto-nyc: I'm for it, if we can have our guns back.
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What in the world makes you think you'd get them back with secession? NYC is a liberal haven and fully anti-gun. What you'll get is more to the tune of an out and out ban on all firearms!
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 2:44:33 PM EDT
To paraphrase Woody Allen, the only cultural advantage NYC has over LA is that you can marry your own daughter.
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 3:18:34 PM EDT
You want two senators from NYC? Geez, it's bad enough already with the Schmuck and the B*tch. I want them to secede from the USA. Then we could invade. I volunteer to be an insurrectionist!
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 4:22:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mmx1: You want two senators from NYC? Geez, it's bad enough already with the Schmuck and the B*tch. I want them to secede from the USA....
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....and just what makes you think they don't already exclusively represent the interests of NYC?
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 4:29:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/9/2003 4:29:49 PM EDT by raf]
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 5:48:38 PM EDT
If NYC became it's own state they would sue NYS to keep the name. Can you see all those elite snobs living anywhere else? NY State would not be happy loosing all that revenue, but they would probably elect two Republican senitors to replace Shmuck and Hill. After many, many, years in NYC, I'm buying a house in Mahopac and being done with the whole socialist paradise thing.
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 5:55:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GunnyG:
Originally Posted By mmx1: You want two senators from NYC? Geez, it's bad enough already with the Schmuck and the B*tch. I want them to secede from the USA....
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....and just what makes you think they don't already exclusively represent the interests of NYC?
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That's how bad it is when they [i]sort of[/i] suck up to you upstate folks. They still have to behave somewhat reasonably. If we seceded Sharpton and Nadler would get elected! Besides, Hillary got a sizeable vote in most districts upstate - she [i]might[/i] have won without NYC. Scary.
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 7:12:37 PM EDT
Why Can't California get this idea going???????
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 7:24:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mmx1: That's how bad it is when they [i]sort of[/i] suck up to you upstate folks. They still have to behave somewhat reasonably. If we seceded Sharpton and Nadler would get elected! Besides, Hillary got a sizeable vote in most districts upstate - she [i]might[/i] have won without NYC. Scary.
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[shudder]ME[/shudder]
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 7:30:25 PM EDT
NYC as a state = more democratic electoral college votes.
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 7:49:56 PM EDT
I hope someone in Chicago is taking notes.[:\]
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 7:58:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By M4Nate: NYC as a state = more democratic electoral college votes.
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Actually.. this wouldn't work the way you think. As NY is a winner take all state, and it goes democratic *most* of the time anyway. Least what's left of NY after secession, would now go republican.. :)
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 9:26:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BuLLet:
Originally Posted By M4Nate: NYC as a state = more democratic electoral college votes.
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Actually.. this wouldn't work the way you think. As NY is a winner take all state, and it goes democratic *most* of the time anyway. Least what's left of NY after secession, would now go republican.. :)
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Erm, they get two GUARANTEED ultra-left seats/votes, and get to play for two more. Albany and other upstate cities, from what I hear, are not [i]that[/i] much better than NYC. As far as politicians go. Not a good idea in my book.
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 9:58:25 PM EDT
'We fought a war over secession. It was the Revolutionary War,' he said. funny, I thought it was the War Between the States... John
Link Posted: 5/10/2003 2:48:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/10/2003 2:49:09 AM EDT by Bushman_269]
Hopefully NYC and NJ will both secede - they can be a foreign country. Perhaps the name "New France" is available? The only condition is they have to take Hillary, Chucky and Lieberman with them.
Link Posted: 5/10/2003 2:58:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bushman_269: Hopefully NYC and NJ will both secede - they can be a foreign country. Perhaps the name "New France" is available? The only condition is they have to take Hillary, Chucky and Lieberman with them.
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damn right! I concure, initial and sign...
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