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Posted: 5/7/2003 3:42:42 AM EDT
Part of me wants to share this with you all and part of me wants to just shelve it and avoid all the questions. I guess the late night wins & I'll post the bare bones. maybe I'll add to it later, maybe not. Around 3:00 am Monday morning I got into a full blown shootout. I made it out unscathed, maybe he did too (at best, he MIGHT have been wounded; doubt it though). My buddy took one in his right thigh and one in his left calf. Both exited cleanly & he's OK. They say a LONG gunfight is 3 rounds. I don't know if that's 3 total or three apiece. I fired 4 and he fired 8 (confirmend) to 12. Both of us had .45s I had 230 gr Hydrashocks (which is why I think I didn't hit him; otherwise he wouldn't have gotten away) and he had Winchester 230 grain FMJ (which was why my buddy got off so lucky). The entire story is so unbelievably bizarre, from start to (long after) the shots were fired. That's what prompts me to share, but the lenght is what restrains me, at least for the moment. Anyway, I won't lie to you. I am kicking myself so hard that I didn't kill that son of a bitch that I am on the verge of hunting him down in the ghetto. On the other hand, I am very thankful that nothing happened to me and that my friend is fine. I'd even be happy that piece of shit was fine, so long as it scared him straight. Unfortunately we all know the likelyhood of that happening. I guess that's all I got right now.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 4:25:02 AM EDT
[size=6]DETAILS!!!![/size=6]
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 4:31:38 AM EDT
ibtl No posts detailing illegal stuff like "Ghetto Hunting"...
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 4:52:07 AM EDT
[shock]
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 4:57:50 AM EDT
At least the "smack" part of his name is right ...'cuz that's all he's talkin'. "Ghetto Hunting" ...that's a good one. [:D]
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 4:59:27 AM EDT
dude....post what in the hell happened before this is locked.... -HS
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 4:59:44 AM EDT
... Come on, what went down dude?
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 5:05:28 AM EDT
Are you a LEO?
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 5:06:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TylerMcNamara: ibtl No posts detailing illegal stuff like "Ghetto Hunting"...
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You know my initial response was to tear you a new ass (verbally), but that would probably be pointless to all concerned. I suppose I'll just stop and say this. I didn't post the story for the following reasons: - It is very long and was (am) tired. - some of the typical responses certain members would post. What responses are these? I didn't want to sit back and read a bunch of posts from members who would pick apart my every thought/decision despite the fact they have never been in this situation before (God knows, I've second guessed my every move 1000 times). In addition, I guess I was looking to talk with some people who have been there before, and maybe pass on something to some that haven't. I meant to do it honestly and if expressing my feelings in a forthright manner conflicts with the views & aims of this forum & its staff, mods, and/or members then I guess I made a big mistake confiding what little I already did. It boggles my mind however that you read this post and all you have to say or focus on is that. I don't think you are a "fucking [:K]"; I just think you are a perfect example of why people regret reaching out to people on this board beyond "which SIR is best for me?". Fuck it just lock the post. I'm sorry I opened my mouth
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 5:07:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RAMBOSKY: Are you a LEO?
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No I'm just some schmuck with a CC permit (and apparently a big mouth) who stood up to his would-be robber.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 5:11:58 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 5:12:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By pulpsmack:
Originally Posted By RAMBOSKY: Are you a LEO?
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No I'm just some schmuck with a CC permit (and apparently a big mouth) who stood up to his would-be robber.
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... Come on, please don't cast us all into a negative light. I for one, admire your courage to face an attacker. If nothing else, just give us the highlights of what transpired. ... We don't CCW carry in case a duck flys by.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 5:12:40 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 5:13:29 AM EDT
I'm interested in hearing your story. Other's experiences are good learning tools for those of us yet to be in such situations (hopefully never to be in such situations).
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 5:15:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 5:27:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 5:39:58 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 5:42:11 AM EDT
Pulpsmack.... Post the details, and I swear on my grandfather's graves, I will not rip you or your story apart. I have been in an armed standoff, but it was one fellow employee holding a gun on another fellow employee. I just happened to witness it less than 20 feet away. I also had to testify against the one holding the gun. I often wondered what I could have done had I been armed...or what could have happened to me if I was armed. Having never had to fire at another person, let alone pull a weapon on them, I am always intersted in hearing what happens when other people are forced to do that. Case in point, the "Shoot out at the indoor range" thread.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 5:43:12 AM EDT
dude, pulpsmack, we just want to know what happened that led up to your 'gunfight'. So you say you got into a gunfight and you were scared, and your buddy got hit, and you were using hydrashoks.... but WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED that got you INTO a GUNFIGHT?? Give us the whole story.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 5:49:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By pulpsmack: I'm sorry I opened my mouth
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So are we. Next time try: Around 3:00 am Monday morning I got into a full blown shootout with [b]Elvis[/b]. I made it out unscathed, maybe he did too... or Around 3:00 am Monday morning I got into a full blown shootout with [b]a space alien[/b]. I made it out unscathed, maybe he did too... or Around 3:00 am Monday morning I got into a full blown shootout with [b]Big Foot[/b]. . I made it out unscathed, maybe he did too... Next time finish making up your story before you start posting it.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 10:34:11 AM EDT
Glad you are safe now PS. Still hoping for some details for educational purposes.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 10:51:28 AM EDT
I am very interested, as many of us are, to learn the details of your encounter. Those that survive such a thing ALWAYS have something that the rest of us can learn from the experience. What we learn from you may save one of our (or a loved ones) life. For those of you who haven’t seen this posting, there is a long thread on [url]glocktalk.com[/url] about the aftermath of a self-defense shooting. The involved shooter is RoadRep and his first post is 7th in the thread. While we are waiting for pulpsmack to reply you can check this out: [url]http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=126319[/url] It WILL get your blood pressure up, real fast.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 11:02:03 AM EDT
You only got off 4 shots? [;)] Seriously, I dont know what I would have done, for I live in Ohio and can NOT legally carry. Go out and buy a vest.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 11:15:52 AM EDT
I was gonna start off playing 'Monday Morning Quarterback'with a 'coulda, woulda, shoulda response to lighten things up a bit and put many of your responses into their proper perspective. I ain't gonna do that, and I understand why and how you posted the way you did. I'm Glad you're alive. I'm glad your pal will be OK. And for your own sake, I'm glad that you didn't shoot the perp dead in his tracks, not that he didn't deserve it. The LEOs and DA would have played hell with you if you DID hit him solidly. As for tracking him down, PLEASE cool off a bit. That's what LEOs are for. I know EXACTLY how you feel, but chasing the SOB down would only lead to you getting into VERY hot water. Again, glad you're OK. Pic
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 11:19:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/7/2003 11:21:41 AM EDT by Johnphin]
I [i]almost[/i] feel ashamed to reply to this thread, as I have a sneaking suspicion that it's entire goal was to get as many of us to respond to nothing as possible; however, I have decided to, giving the benefit of the doubt to the poster. That being said, it probably would have been a better idea to wait to post until you were ready to put it in context. For instance: "I was in a shootout tonight. A guy tried to rob my house, fired on me, and a friend and myself returned fire. I was unhurt, my friend was shot in the leg, and the robber got away. Details later." See, that wouldn't have taken much energy, you wouldn't be wasting time trying to defend a post with no real info in it, and people probably wouldn't be suspecting that you're a troll [:K].
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 11:22:36 AM EDT
Man that GT thread got the heart rate up for sure. That guy had his shit together. Sorry to see him get it in the checkbook like that though. What a friggin joke to have to spend that much money to defend your actions for ridding society of a couple of gangsta POS kidnapper rapists.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 11:23:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By piccolo: I'm Glad you're alive. I'm glad your pal will be OK.
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What he said. I have [i]NOT[/i] BTDT, so I cannot put myself in your shoes. Still, I hope that over time, if you realise some lessons learned, that you will share those lessons with us here, so we can all benefit from your experience.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 11:27:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 11:32:18 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 11:47:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Airwolf: ... For those of you who haven’t seen this posting, there is a long thread on [url]glocktalk.com[/url] about the aftermath of a self-defense shooting. ...[url]http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=126319[/url] ...
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Reading this makes me wonder if it isn't worth it take Ayoob's LFI-1 class. The policy may have changed, but it was my understanding that if an LFI graduate was involved in a legitimate shooting, he'd review the case and appear as an expert witness free of charge. Seems like an inexpensive insurance policy ($700) considering his resume. (Even if you disagree with him personally, I'm sure hearing an NYPD training instruct state that you were in the right should be an asset.) Then again, I've been known to be wrong. On a regular basis.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 12:16:06 PM EDT
You should not post any more here until everything is settled. The best person to talk this out with is your friend who was with you. No one else will be able to relate. I recomend that you report this robbery to clear any ramifications that might come up. I was a cop in Wash. DC for eight years. I can understand the adrenalin rush you expierenced right after this type of ordeal. Live and learn.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 1:49:41 PM EDT
Thanks for the support to those concerned. I decided I have nothing to say to anyone with other motives and they will be ignored. I am not worried about the "legal" post but I appreciate the advice. I am not in the North and cops aren't stormtroopers down here. Reports have been filed and that's the end of it (until this guy strikes again) The legal situation was something I wanted to comment on... It might save your life to post certain details but I feel that too many thin skins around here will make that impossible. I suppose I'll post what led up to everything though. A friend came to town late that night and we went downtown. We decided to go to the river which is a "somewhat questionable area". It is so because muggings etc. happen there from time to time, but it is WELL lit and usually has people around. There is a walkway that parallels the river and we strolled that. there are also catwalks that take you up over the river and at last we walked up one. The catwalk is about 75 yards long and it ends in a hexagonal platform about 50 feet across. We were on that platform. 10 min. later I saw 3 individuals, 2 male across the way. They didn't walk towards us, just hung back at the other side of the catwalk. The female left and I got a bit concerned when she did. The other two walked back & forth about for 20 min. Finally one of them came up the walk (God knows about the other one, my eyes were transfixed on the one apporaching). He was coughing into a rag and coming straight for us. I wanted off but there's only one way in or out: the catwalk. As he came up I instructed my friend where to stand (as I had a really bad feeling) and he crouched down real low. We played it as cool as we could, pretending not to take notice of the man, trying to pick up on our conversation but it was hollow at best. The guy never faced us he hept his back towards us and pretended to be staring off at the water (about 20 or so feet away). The thin charade went on for about 2-3 min. Then (still facing away from us) I saw him tie the rag to his face. My hand gripped my gun. Still facing away from us the overconfident SOB drew his weapon. Mine was out on him before he even turned around. These were the events that led up to the shooting.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 1:56:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/7/2003 1:59:37 PM EDT by California_Kid]
Glad to hear you're OK pulpsmack. Welcome to AR15.com. Please tell us more if and when you feel like it. BTT
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 1:59:02 PM EDT
And you missed[?]
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 2:35:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By notack: And you missed[?]
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word. That seems like a dangerous place to send 12 rounds down range without hitting your target.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 3:20:32 PM EDT
Pulpsmack, I have no reason not to believe you, so unlike others I am assuming you are telling us the truth. Fuck what anyone thinks and those who want to pick apart your tactics. You survived an armed attack and therefore you won. Many that haven't been shot at can criticize your thinking, marksmanship, etc. but you have seen the beast and lived to tell the tale. Even if you did not hit the scumbag, I commend you for having the equipment and the mindset to fight. You sent some hot ones his direction, fucked up his whole night, and possibly saved not only you're life and the life of your friend, but maybe the next person this SOB would have attacked. Your actions may have been enough to convince him to stick with stealing stereos and slinging rock instead of mugging people. I for one would like to hear the story when you feel comfortable enough, and feel it is legally responsible.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 5:59:35 PM EDT
Congratulations on surviving. I'm sure that you've run the scene through your mind a million times by now, so my question is, is there anything that you think you should have done differently ?
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 6:09:20 PM EDT
I'm glad you're alright. Sorry about your friend. I hope one of you shot the bastard, and he dies from infection or something.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 6:15:59 PM EDT
Post the fuckin story already. Either that act it out and stream the act to the board. It'd make for more interesting time on here.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 6:19:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Balzac72: Post the fuckin story already. Either that act it out and stream the act to the board. It'd make for more interesting time on here.
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[blue]Dude, look up.[/blue] A friend came to town late that night and we went downtown. We decided to go to the river which is a "somewhat questionable area". It is so because muggings etc. happen there from time to time, but it is WELL lit and usually has people around. There is a walkway that parallels the river and we strolled that. there are also catwalks that take you up over the river and at last we walked up one. The catwalk is about 75 yards long and it ends in a hexagonal platform about 50 feet across. We were on that platform. 10 min. later I saw 3 individuals, 2 male across the way. They didn't walk towards us, just hung back at the other side of the catwalk. The female left and I got a bit concerned when she did. The other two walked back & forth about for 20 min. Finally one of them came up the walk (God knows about the other one, my eyes were transfixed on the one apporaching). He was coughing into a rag and coming straight for us. I wanted off but there's only one way in or out: the catwalk. As he came up I instructed my friend where to stand (as I had a really bad feeling) and he crouched down real low. We played it as cool as we could, pretending not to take notice of the man, trying to pick up on our conversation but it was hollow at best. The guy never faced us he hept his back towards us and pretended to be staring off at the water (about 20 or so feet away). The thin charade went on for about 2-3 min. Then (still facing away from us) I saw him tie the rag to his face. My hand gripped my gun. Still facing away from us the overconfident SOB drew his weapon. Mine was out on him before he even turned around. These were the events that led up to the shooting.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 6:24:19 PM EDT
With 30k members, someone on this site is bound to be involved in something like this sooner or later. Sorry to hear it had to be you. I congratulate you though, on your ability to stand up for yourself even while in risk of being killed.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 6:42:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 7:34:23 PM EDT
This may seem like an oversimplified statement, but... The first rule is don't go where the Trouble is, right? All said, I'm glad the end result was as light as it was. Stay safe.
Link Posted: 5/7/2003 7:35:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Airwolf: I am very interested, as many of us are, to learn the details of your encounter. Those that survive such a thing ALWAYS have something that the rest of us can learn from the experience. What we learn from you may save one of our (or a loved ones) life. For those of you who haven’t seen this posting, there is a long thread on [url]glocktalk.com[/url] about the aftermath of a self-defense shooting. The involved shooter is RoadRep and his first post is 7th in the thread. While we are waiting for pulpsmack to reply you can check this out: [url]http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=126319[/url] It WILL get your blood pressure up, real fast.
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I agree, that GT thread is a must-read.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 12:18:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By KOW: Congratulations on surviving. I'm sure that you've run the scene through your mind a million times by now, so my question is, is there anything that you think you should have done differently ?
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Absolutely. I could have been killed because I didn't know a certain law. In fact it was sensitivity to the law that messed me up. I had the drop on him as I said but I didn't fire. I wasn't positive that I was in the clear because his weapon was still aimed up. He said oh shit and ran off BUT unloaded at the same time. My golden opportunity was squandered and it could have cost me everything (not to mention that I learned later that I could have shot the hell out of him at that point and it would have been justified, even if he never pointed it at me). I let off three rounds then tracked him down the catwalk. I'll spare you the shit talking I was screaming at the individual as I pumped my 4th & last round in his direction. Again I stopped for a few reasons. I figured I'd need exit rounds, that I was jeopardizing myself when I could be covered better ant that I could get sued for hitting him in the back! I know it's stupid, especially since he was shooting behind his back at this point and I was justified. So much shit was going through my head. What was crazy is that there was no fear. the 1st exchange was like a scene in Cops. all panic. the second exchange was like a dream or a joke. I mean I'm talking shit and firing at the same time. I had no idea I was at the time, but my buddy told me afterwards. The point is that there is so much focus and fear on the law these days that you can even get caught up in it in the worst of situations.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 12:59:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/8/2003 1:02:23 AM EDT by nwatson99]
Pulpsmack Congratulations on your encounter and you or your friend were not killed or seriously injured. You should be proud of yourself for 1. Protecting and conserving yourself and your friends life. 2. You took the time to complete the necessary guide lines to obtain your Conceal Carry Permit. Your story and events that have transpired should and most likely will be a driving force for everyone who can obtain a CCP, and has not took the time to apply and get their permits. I know if Ohio passes the allowance of the CCP I will take off work and get the CCP or die trying. 3. Used your head plus kept an open mind in a horrific situation. 4. And last but not least you were able and legal in drawing your Weapon and shooting at a piece of shit. I hope that bastard learned a lesson and will think twice about attempting a robbery again. You want to pat yourself on the back, you probably stopped his crime spree for the night or even for a long time and could have actually saved another Human Being from being shot, stabbed, killed, or wounded in another robbery attempt this piece of shit would or could have attempted. Pulpsmack this Bud's for you [beer]
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 7:09:43 AM EDT
Didn't see your story earlier, sorry bout that. As far as the details go, you did alright, justification for the shooting doesn't stop your second guessing while you're in the situation. Worst case scenario would have been that you shot him and he was a cop who thought YOU were the bad guy and him and his partner were an anti crime tast force. Maybe he noticed your gun..... Anyway, noone is dead, your friend will recover and everything will work itself out. Just pray you see him on the street again some day!
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 7:26:50 AM EDT
Morning Pulpsmack, The main thing is you and your friend survived the situation. Had you not been carrying, you may not be here to post this thread. As for not taking the BG down, so what. I have seen shoots in which trained LEO's have fired multiple rounds and not even come close to the person they are engaging. Remember: To walk away is what really matters in the end!
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 7:42:45 AM EDT
So, in light of your new experience of being shot at and having to shoot back, how will you change your shooting practice? More emphasis on "point shooting" or what? Is it a safe guess that you didn't even look at your sights? I'll be interested to hear your response.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 9:05:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By yellobelli:
Originally Posted By Airwolf: ... For those of you who haven’t seen this posting, there is a long thread on [url]glocktalk.com[/url] about the aftermath of a self-defense shooting. ...[url]http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=126319[/url] ...
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Reading this makes me wonder if it isn't worth it take Ayoob's LFI-1 class. The policy may have changed, but it was my understanding that if an LFI graduate was involved in a legitimate shooting, he'd review the case and appear as an expert witness free of charge. Seems like an inexpensive insurance policy ($700) considering his resume. (Even if you disagree with him personally, I'm sure hearing an NYPD training instruct state that you were in the right should be an asset.) Then again, I've been known to be wrong. On a regular basis.
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Ayoob's insurance policy still stands. It's worth the $700, I guarantee.
Link Posted: 5/8/2003 10:40:25 AM EDT
[:d]
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