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Posted: 5/3/2003 2:21:06 PM EDT
[url]http://www.local6.com/orlpn/news/stories/news-217772320030503-020519.html[/url] Fla. Deputy Pepper Sprays 12-Year-Old Jaywalker Posted: 3:15 a.m. EDT May 3, 2003 Updated: 3:20 a.m. EDT May 3, 2003 FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. -- A deputy used pepper spray on a 12-year-old girl and wrestled her to the ground when she ignored repeated orders to stop jaywalking, the sheriff's office said Friday. Broward County sheriff's deputy Michael Roberto was issuing jaywalking tickets to students crossing a busy highway Thursday when he asked the girl to stand next to his motorcycle so he could give her a citation, the deputy's report said. But the girl, who was not immediately identified, became upset and began to curse, Roberto said in the report. The girl also walked away and ignored four more orders to stop and put her hands behind her back, he said. The girl, who is 5 feet 1 inch and 134 pounds, threatened to hit Roberto and rolled her hand in a fist, the report said. The deputy repeatedly warned her that he would use pepper spray if she didn't listen. "After the last warning and order, it became apparent that I had to choose between a physical fight and using the pepper spray," Roberto wrote. "I sprayed her in the face." The girl then knocked the spray can out of Roberto's hand, so the deputy wrestled the girl to the ground and handcuffed her, the report said. The girl, who was not injured, was charged with failure to use a crosswalk and resisting arrest without violence, both misdemeanors. She was released to her mother. The girl likely won't face any jail time on the charges, sheriff's spokesman Jim Leljedahl said. Leljedahl said there is no age policy for the use of pepper spray. The police report and witness accounts suggest Roberto acted within the sheriff's office's rules, Leljedahl said. "Pepper spray is an appropriate response when we meet with defensive resistance," Leljedahl said Friday. "In this case, she was belligerent and aggressive, even." The sheriff's office was reviewing the arrest, though most pepper spray incidents are not investigated, Leljedahl said. A formal investigation would be launched if the girl's family files a complaint, he said. Deputies seeking to stop accidents along busy Federal Highway have been ticketing Olsen Middle School students for the past several weeks. Roberto, a 22-year veteran of the force, was at work Friday, Leljedahl said.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 2:30:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/3/2003 2:33:22 PM EDT by SPECTRE]
Officer friendly was just trying to help. That 12 year child old got what she deserved. Hell, she deserved a good beating, I mean afterall, she was jaywalking. [rolleyes] You know what the sad part is, if the parents had been reported for simply spanking the child, they could be arrested. NOT ONLY THAT, but if the parents or any other person, had pepper sprayed and wrestled a child to the ground, they would be arrested and charged with abuse.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 2:30:42 PM EDT
I don't see the problem.If she had been taught the proper respect for authority this would never have happened.When i was a kid,I respected LEO's because they were the MAN and the MAN would put you in jail if you messed up!!!
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 2:31:09 PM EDT
Kids today have such attitude they deserve a bit of whuppin'. There is such attitude, no such thing as respect anymore in a lot of childeren. Heinlien was right about the fall of the United States in Starship Troopers.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 2:31:22 PM EDT
Hell, a shot of pepper spray in the face is about what it takes to get most kids attention these days.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 2:39:06 PM EDT
Cunt type lauging to hard. [:D]
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 2:41:09 PM EDT
oh my GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!! she was JAY WALKING?!?! I say pepper spray was too easy. where are those snipers when ya need em? [rolleyes] I admit that the girl needed to be taught a lesson but this cop is an idiot for what he did. come on, pepperspray? or risk a fight? come on its not like youd be fighting a heavyweight champion. I have asthma and pepperspray could have the potential to be deadly. if anyone ever tried to use it against me then theyd better be prepared to die. end of story.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 2:56:24 PM EDT
Pepper Spray??? THAT BASSTURD! He should have whacked her with his nightstick. [B)] Hey, if the event went down as reported she was told to stop repeatedly and warned, she chose to ignore it, tough titties to her. She's 12, that's old enough to understand concequences. She should be given community service as well.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 2:58:13 PM EDT
I could never understand why jay-walking was illegal. Just another law to "protect" us. Seems like we do to much to thwart "natural selection". We are not capable of making a decision to cross the street??
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 3:05:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/3/2003 3:06:38 PM EDT by Lord_Grey_Boots]
Wanna bet parents were raising a stink about kids getting hit by cars while the kids were crossing at spots other than the crosswalk? Its also apparent that some folks here can't read. She wasn't pepper sprayed for jaywalking. She was peppersprayed when she decided to fight the officer. Now, the question is, what should have the officer done instead?
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 3:05:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86: I could never understand why jay-walking was illegal. Just another law to "protect" us. Seems like we do to much to thwart "natural selection". We are not capable of making a decision to cross the street??
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I think it's more about the vehicles. Guy walks out in front of you, you slam on brakes, guy behind you rear-ends you, etc.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 3:08:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 3:09:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 3:15:42 PM EDT
[imbroglio]At least the cop went home safe. That's all that matters.[/imbroglio]
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 3:18:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/3/2003 3:23:39 PM EDT by GackMan]
The girl, who is 5 feet 1 inch and 134 pounds, threatened to hit Roberto and rolled her hand in a fist,
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Rule number 1 - never underestimate someone based on their size or sex. I've seen guys get hospitalized, need knee surgery, etc. from arresting little women. I think that it is because society trains them that they can do no wrong... guys aren't supposed to hit women, everyone knows that. no such rule for the wimmenz. She is as big as many grown women - no way the cop could know how old she was at the time. If a person balls up their fists and says they are going to hit you... she is lucky, he could have just hauled off and popped her. She escalated the UOF. Tuff shit twerp
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 3:24:22 PM EDT
Why, he gave that brat on ORDER! If she doesn't comply, she had it coming. The officer was just doing his duty! [img]http://www.snyderstreasures.net/eBay/Images/042402/PosterGestapoBW.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 3:30:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 3:30:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/3/2003 3:33:05 PM EDT by cyanide]
Originally Posted By GackMan:
The girl, who is 5 feet 1 inch and 134 pounds, threatened to hit Roberto and rolled her hand in a fist,
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Rule number 1 - never underestimate someone based on their size or sex. I've seen guys get hospitalized, need knee surgery, etc. from arresting little women. I think that it is because society trains them that they can do no wrong... guys aren't supposed to hit women, everyone knows that. no such rule for the wimmenz. [u]She is as big as many grown women - no way the cop could know how old she was at the time.[/u] If a person balls up their fists and says they are going to hit you... she is lucky, he could have just hauled off and popped her. She escalated the UOF. Tuff shit twerp
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Your right he should have just shot her. Almost forgot, then killed her dog.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 3:31:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Airwolf: [url]http://www.local6.com/orlpn/news/stories/news-217772320030503-020519.html[/url] ...The girl then knocked the spray can out of Roberto's hand...
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If the 12 year old really "knocked" it out of his hand, I hope he never has to draw his gun.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 3:33:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GackMan:
The girl, who is 5 feet 1 inch and 134 pounds, threatened to hit Roberto and rolled her hand in a fist,
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Rule number 1 - never underestimate someone based on their size or sex. I've seen guys get hospitalized, need knee surgery, etc. from arresting little women. I think that it is because society trains them that they can do no wrong... guys aren't supposed to hit women, everyone knows that. no such rule for the wimmenz. She is as big as many grown women - no way the cop could know how old she was at the time. If a person balls up their fists and says they are going to hit you... she is lucky, he could have just hauled off and popped her. She escalated the UOF. Tuff shit twerp
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[img]http://www.aish.com/holocaust/overview/graphics/he05n15e_500x391.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 3:34:26 PM EDT
[i]Deputies seeking to stop accidents along busy Federal Highway have been ticketing Olsen Middle School students for the past several weeks[/i] Oh I see how it is. He peppersprayed her for her own good.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 3:39:13 PM EDT
The positive side of this is that she'll recover completely from the pepper spray. You couldn't say the same if the officer had to use some other method of force to subdue her. Be thankful for the pepper spray. GackMan wrote;
Rule number 1 - never underestimate someone based on their size or sex. I've seen guys get hospitalized, need knee surgery
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Exactly. There's a guy that works for me now that had to retire early on disability because a pre-teen girl ruined one of his knees when she hit him with a textbook. The poor guy's career was ended. He said he tried to be nice. Sometimes, you got to do what you got to do.z
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 3:48:05 PM EDT
A smartass 12 year old? I would have wacked her with my nightstick THEN sprayed her! (See why I'm not a cop?)
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 3:56:31 PM EDT
[b]DISCLAIMER: My response is based on the assumption that the facts in the article are accurate.[/b] It is important to note the words in the article:
The girl, [i]who was not injured[/i], was charged with failure to use a crosswalk and resisting arrest without violence, both misdemeanors.
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While it is reasonable to debate the minimum age for the use of chemical agent, one cannot argue with the results. While she still had to wrestled to the ground, the girl probably had a lot of the fight taken out of her by the pepper spray. It is very likely that, had he been forced to use physical restraint techniques alone, she could have been seriously injured. The bottom line is that she was resisting the [b]lawful[/b] authority of the deputy, and she paid the price. Rather than spending time castigating the deputy, I would ask the parents where she developed this level of disrespect for her elders. If I ever found out one of my sons behaved this way to a law enforcement officer, whatever happened to him at the scene would pale in comparison to the ass-kicking he would receive when he got home.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 4:06:17 PM EDT
Thanks, Nimrod1193, for an [b]intelligent[/b] comment. (Unlike my previous post!)
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 4:12:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/3/2003 4:14:30 PM EDT by Johnphin]
Originally Posted By Nimrod1193: [b]DISCLAIMER: My response is based on the assumption that the facts in the article are accurate.[/b] It is important to note the words in the article:
The girl, [i]who was not injured[/i], was charged with failure to use a crosswalk and resisting arrest without violence, both misdemeanors.
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While it is reasonable to debate the minimum age for the use of chemical agent, one cannot argue with the results. While she still had to wrestled to the ground, the girl probably had a lot of the fight taken out of her by the pepper spray. It is very likely that, had he been forced to use physical restraint techniques alone, she could have been seriously injured. The bottom line is that she was resisting the [b]lawful[/b] authority of the deputy, and she paid the price. Rather than spending time castigating the deputy, I would ask the parents where she developed this level of disrespect for her elders. If I ever found out one of my sons behaved this way to a law enforcement officer, whatever happened to him at the scene would pale in comparison to the ass-kicking he would receive when he got home.
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Well put. While a 12 year old does probably usually make bad decisions from lack of knowledge/reasoning ability, I still think that she was old enough to know the meaning of, "Stop, or I'm going to pepper spray you." We can only hope that this will cause a new-found respect for authority in her, and will lead her away from more serious problems down the road, ie. DUI, possession, theft, etc. OTOH, it might just make her more rebelious. Let's hope not.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 4:13:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86: I could never understand why jay-walking was illegal. Just another law to "protect" us. Seems like we do to much to thwart "natural selection". We are not capable of making a decision to cross the street??
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Originally Posted By sherrick13: jay walking is a stupid law I never enforce.
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Several years ago the Rhode Island Supreme Court ruled that the driver of any vehicle striking a minor is responsible, regardless of the minors negligence. Does Florida have a similar ruling? Just curious, if a 5'1", 134 pound, 18 year old male had behaved in the same fashion, does anyone think they would have been let off without charges?
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 4:21:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sherrick13: The officer did follow the proper use of force continuium but I agree jay walking is a stupid law that I never enforce.
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When I was an LEO my departments force continuium was as follows: 1) Officers presence 2) Verbal commands 3) Chemical spray 4) Empty hand techniques (strikes, blows, escort techniques) 5) Impact weapons (batons, saps) 6) Deadly force According to the story, it sems he followed the force continuium. As far as jaywalking being a stupid law and not enforcing it, thats officer discetion, unless you are assigned to enforce it by your superior. I'd hate to come back without a single ticket issued. As far as the subject being a twelve year old girl, have you guys ever tried to restrain someone who does not want to be arrested? I was assigned to a rock concert one time. Another officer was involved in a foot chase with a small female, 5"4" 110#, after she attempted to jump the gate and threatened other concert goers with a broken bottle. They chased her right to me, I snatched her up. She kicked, bit and scratched, I sprayed her. She went to the hospital to get her face washed, I got a tetnis shot, stitches and bandages along with AIDS test every 6 months for 18 months. Shoulda just smacked her over the head with my PR24 and saved myself a trip to the emergency room. So much for being gentile.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 4:29:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 82ndAbn: No age limit policy? Well they damn well should have one. Its a child! As in far from being an adult! Don't they teach escort techniques anymore? Was that puss so scared that he actually thought he had to choose between fighting and chemical defense? If I was in his department I'd be giving him shit until the day he retired. What a lame assed reason to use O.C. What a dick. I'd definitely be filing complaints if I was that child's parents. Granted, she'd get proper punishment at home - but it sure as hell wouldn't be chemicals and handcuffs. This is BS! Can't physically restrain a 12 year old child......what a wuss.
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What would you be saying if she broke her arm struggling with the cop?? Seems to me, THAT would be law suit city. This kid played the game with a 22 year veteran, who prolly took A LOT of shit before doing what he did. (That said, if he was a buddy of mine.... [:D]}
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 4:35:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 4:37:29 PM EDT
No worries, the final outcome is certain.....blood sucking lawyers and lots-o-cash !! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$CHA-CHING$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 4:40:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kar98: Why, he gave that brat on ORDER! If she doesn't comply, she had it coming. The officer was just doing his duty! [url]http://www.snyderstreasures.net/eBay/Images/042402/PosterGestapoBW.jpg[/url]
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I've heard of "Black Shirts" before, but THAT is the first time I've seen a Black Gestapo "officer"!! [;D]
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 4:52:21 PM EDT
This is probably the same type of kid who could have become a PITA later on in her life. I've dealt with people who have done this kind of shit and got away with it. Trust me they are not the type of people you want to know nor do you want them living near you. If a little bit of salad dressing in the face straightens her out then she should be thankful. BTW ever notice that it's mostly liberals that argue and fight with the police?
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 4:52:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86:
Originally Posted By Kar98: Why, he gave that brat on ORDER! If she doesn't comply, she had it coming. The officer was just doing his duty! [url]http://www.snyderstreasures.net/eBay/Images/042402/PosterGestapoBW.jpg[/url]
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I've heard of "Black Shirts" before, but THAT is the first time I've seen a Black Gestapo "officer"!! [;D]
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[lol]
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 3:20:56 AM EDT
Most agencies consider pepper spray to be a lower level of force than control holds. So pepper spray is the next step after asking you nicely. She was lawfully detained for jaywalking, she chose to evade. No different than a speeder that refuses to pull over.
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 3:23:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 82ndAbn: Can't physically restrain a 12 year old child......what a wuss.
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Physically restraining her is a higher level of force than pepper spray. Verbal commands, pepper spray, control holds, impact weapons, choke holds, deadly force.
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 3:40:11 AM EDT
Gee his life was threatened why didn't he just shoot her?[rolleyes] That's what they do to dogs who growl at them.
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 5:23:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2003 5:24:02 AM EDT by MarianLibrarian]
Having worked for years with smart-assed preteens, I would be willing to bet that she deserved it after testing the limits. Kids today have this "It can't/won't happen to me, I'm [i]special[/i]" attitude. She was warned repeatedly! And to those of you who don't think that a 12 yo has enough sense to know better, think about a kid as young as 2yo who looks at you to see if you're watching while they attempt to do something they know NOT to do. We think it's cute then and we KNOW they know better, but they try it anyway. A 12 yo has enough sense to know not to cross a highway in front of a cop who has been ticketing kids for weeks. She deserved it! Marian
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 6:02:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 6:06:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22: She'll live.
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Yes it seems it is always ok ----- [b]unless it is your kid or grandchild[/b] then it is a different thing.
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 6:17:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 6:21:46 AM EDT
Sorry if I presumed wrong.
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 6:27:14 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 6:51:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2003 6:52:30 AM EDT by KODoc]
Sounds to me like Officer Roberto probably isn't much taller than 5 foot 1 inch himself..although he probably does lots of barbell curls and has big arms.....
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 6:55:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
Originally Posted By cyanide: Yes it seems it is always ok ----- [b]unless it is your kid or grandchild[/b] then it is a different thing.
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You assume too much. When I was growing up, if I got in trouble at school and got detention or some kind of punishment assignment, I always got worse punishment at home from my father. If a child of mine tried to fight a cop when the cop was citing them for a violation that everyone knows will get you cited, that child would have more to worry about than a ten minute decon with soap and water.
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Yup!
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 7:25:23 AM EDT
Looks like we are back to armchair quarterbacks again. If everything in that article is right on then it the little smart ass got what she had coming. I've had a 14 year old runaway run from me after I spotted her and ran into her house. Her two boyfriends then blocked my way of getting to her. My first thought was to spray em both but I knew if it didn't work I'd be fighting two guys at once and these guys were as big as me and at that time I was only carrying pepper spray and no baton. So I made the decision to just talk with em and it worked I was able to get everyone calm and they brought her out to me. That seems alot better to me than having to whip ass, fight, etc. Granted the girl ran after she got back outside to me and when i caught her she started punching and kicking me so I wrapped her up in a bear hug but after still getting kicked in the shin I picked her up and put her on the ground. I felt bad about doing that to a 14 year old female but how much of it am I supposed to take? It's got to stop somewhere. Sounds like that officer did good.
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 7:32:10 AM EDT
Whereas I may be arm chair quarterbacking he did it wrong, you [b]seem[/b] to be armchair quarterbacking that he [b]did it right[/b]
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 9:34:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2003 9:39:46 AM EDT by jadams951]
Originally Posted By cyanide: Whereas I may be arm chair quarterbacking he did it wrong, you [b]seem[/b] to be armchair quarterbacking that he [b]did it right[/b]
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I said that if it happened the way the article reads then he did it right. As Jarhead_22 said if my kid did that then naturally, as a parent, it would bother me but the kiddo would stll get an ass whooping.
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 9:52:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2003 9:54:49 AM EDT by SteyrAUG]
Originally Posted By SPECTRE: Officer friendly was just trying to help. That 12 year child old got what she deserved. Hell, she deserved a good beating, I mean afterall, she was jaywalking. [rolleyes]
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Actually, she was NOT pepper sprayed for jaywalking. She was pepper sprayed because she...
threatened to hit Roberto and rolled her hand in a fist, the report said. The deputy repeatedly warned her that he would use pepper spray if she didn't listen. "After the last warning and order, it became apparent that I had to choose between a physical fight and using the pepper spray," Roberto wrote. "I sprayed her in the face."
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Just as a deputy CANNOT (and didn't) pepper spray kids for jaywalking, kids CANNOT threaten to punch deputies. I've lived in Ft. Lauderdale and know the area well. These aren't kids who are typical suburban punky kids, there are some seriously violent little ghetto bastards in Ft. Lauderdale. This guy has been on the force 22 years so it wasn't just a rookie getting nervous and going overboard. Editted to add: Jaywalking IS a stupid law.
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 10:11:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2003 10:16:39 AM EDT by Searcherfortruth]
Originally Posted By Nimrod1193: [b]DISCLAIMER: My response is based on the assumption that the facts in the article are accurate.[/b] It is important to note the words in the article:
The girl, [i]who was not injured[/i], was charged with failure to use a crosswalk and resisting arrest without violence, both misdemeanors.
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[red][b][size=6]AMEN![/size=6][/b] I couldn't agree with you any more than I already do. I can't imagine ever showing the total lack of respect to any adult at that age, let alone Johnny Law. I bet she looked him in the eye & said [Ike Clanton] Law don't go round here law dog, got it?[/Ike Clanton] She absolutely should be doing some community service, I can see here future & it's looking like youth bootcamp. I didn't mean to put my post in the middle of your's. but I don't know how to move it down with out retyping it so I'm leaving it as is.[/red] While it is reasonable to debate the minimum age for the use of chemical agent, one cannot argue with the results. While she still had to wrestled to the ground, the girl probably had a lot of the fight taken out of her by the pepper spray. It is very likely that, had he been forced to use physical restraint techniques alone, she could have been seriously injured. The bottom line is that she was resisting the [b]lawful[/b] authority of the deputy, and she paid the price. Rather than spending time castigating the deputy, I would ask the parents where she developed this level of disrespect for her elders. If I ever found out one of my sons behaved this way to a law enforcement officer, whatever happened to him at the scene would pale in comparison to the ass-kicking he would receive when he got home.
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Link Posted: 5/4/2003 10:19:12 AM EDT
Kid was probably a punk and got what she deserved. Maybe a little overzealous on the cop's part, but if the man tells you to stay put and shut up, then that's what you do. You don't curse the guy out and ball up your fist.
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