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Posted: 4/30/2003 12:47:15 PM EDT
Since I'm moving to Utah in a few months, I'd like to know what the deal is with them. What do they believe? Why do a lot of people think they're wacko? Are they wacko???
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 12:48:20 PM EDT
oh lordy, you're in for it now! And you have prompted my first ever... IBTL
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 12:50:37 PM EDT
My best friend in law school is Mormon and from Utah. Depending on where you live there you will find them very difficult to make friends with, although all but the poorest or minorities will be good, quiet neighbors. They are very clanish in that in Utah all their fellow Mormons in that few square block area are organized into a shift at the local ward. That unit becomes the sum total of their social circle outside of business for men, and their complete world for the women.
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 12:51:54 PM EDT
Here's my personal experience... They embezzeled millions from my old company. Had to sell out. I personally lost over $10K. We used to call them "the boys club". They cover each others asses completely. They name their (way too many) kids after inanimate objects. They ruined the best job I ever had. I will never work with one again. Run like the wind.
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 12:52:08 PM EDT
Ok, I suppose I'll do the first ever IBTL-on-my-own- thread! Lets try to keep this a tolerant, mature conversation (I know it ain't gonna happen).
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 12:54:18 PM EDT
IBTL [bounce]
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 12:54:44 PM EDT
Mormons are by far nice people, but they stick together and are hard to get to know. My best friend in the service is Mormon, and he was closer than my own brother. SLC is pretty varied in peoples beliefs, ie not just Mormon. Relax, it isn't like you are moving to kalifornia[:D]
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 12:55:29 PM EDT
What's not mature? That's exactly what happened. Again, I speak for myself.
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 12:55:42 PM EDT
the only one i knew (here in WI) couldnt take his t-shirt off even to swim and gave 7-800 bucks a month to the 'church'. he also didnt stop completley at stop signs to 'save his brake pads and drove until late at night with headlights off so they dont burn out as quick.
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 12:57:04 PM EDT
How many women do they get? Is it worth converting?[lol] IBTL!!!
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 12:58:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MarineGrunt: Since I'm moving to Utah in a few months, I'd like to know what the deal is with them. What do they believe? Why do a lot of people think they're wacko? Are they wacko???
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Wacko is a relative term. I have heard (and saw from my own experience) that some Marines would clearly be wacko, so . . . But, get a copy of the book of Mormon and read as far as you can in it. It is a long tale of how the angel Moroni (not pronounced so it comes out sounding like "moron") led a group of people on a wandering trip around the world, during which time they wound up in lots of places that don't have any common names you can recognize. Eventually they became the Mormons, through a rather long and (in my view) questionable tale. (It has been a while since I read it, so others may have a better description. I found it fairly boring and not particularly believable, so I didn't make a big point of remembering.) Don't look for any archaeological evidence that might support the Book of Mormon -- as near as I can tell, there isn't any and the Mormons are not out looking for any evidence themselves. From what I have seen, they tend to be pretty clannish and live in a closed group. They exhibit that many ways. They do tend to produce a lot of kids. If you go to malls in areas where there are lots of them it isn't at all unusual to see whole families walking around like a line of ducks, Dad in front, with all the kids strung out behind him in order of age. As near as I can tell, they are harmless except when they are trying to overpopulate the world with little Mormons and they try to impose their rules on others as if those religious rules should be law.
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 12:59:13 PM EDT
I don't know very many, but the ones I do know are [b]awesome[/b] people.
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 12:59:54 PM EDT
Feel free to ask me if you would like. I am a transplant to Utah & my wife is a convert to the faith. There are quite a few on the board. My experience with the Mormon question on this board has been so-so: Some just treat them like any other group, some are, some aren't, some speak highly of them, and some seem to hate & put them down as any opportunity arises(I love speaking in the third person!). In my opinion, the best way to find out about Mormons is just to talk one. If you want to know about them without someone else's positive & negative external biases entering into the picture, then just go straight to the source. It is almost like asking about gun owners-do you ask joe sixpack, the anti at the soccer game, or a gun owner? Kinda funny how that all works out. One final note - The Smart family is not a representative sample of what the average Mormon/Mormon family is like! Most of the guys I know & go to school with think that they are very, very weird to say the least! Oh, yeah: IBTL!
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 12:59:58 PM EDT
Whats the deal with Catholics, why do people think they're wacko ?? Whats the deal with Jews, why do people think they're wacko ?? Whats the deal with Methodists, why do people think they're wacko ?? Whats the deal with Muslims, why do people think they're wacko ?? Whats the deal with Church of Christ, why do people think they're wacko ?? Whats the deal with Russian Orthodox , why do people think they're wacko ?? Whats the deal with Baptists, why do people think they're wacko ?? etc...etc...
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 1:00:01 PM EDT
I deal with Mormons quite a bit since I do alot of work with the Boy Scouts and they are very prominant in them. Ive met some that were genuine good people. But the majority Ive dealt with feel they are totally superior and are assholes. If you arent one of them you are second place humans. I dont beleive in their way of life and I think it is very cultish. But if they want that way then have at it. Just dont play me as a bad person for not agreeing. Really pisses me off
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 1:02:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GummyBear1: Here's my personal experience... They embezzeled millions from my old company. Had to sell out. I personally lost over $10K. We used to call them "the boys club". They cover each others asses completely. They name their (way too many) kids after inanimate objects. They ruined the best job I ever had. I will never work with one again. Run like the wind.
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And just how is this the fault of the LDS church and not bad people ?
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 1:03:08 PM EDT
sounds like a cult to me. oh, IBTL.
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 1:04:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By wolfman97: But, get a copy of the book of Mormon and read as far as you can in it. It is a long tale of how the angel Moroni (not pronounced so it comes out sounding like "moron") led a group of people on a wandering trip around the world, during which time they wound up in lots of places that don't have any common names you can recognize. Eventually they became the Mormons, through a rather long and (in my view) questionable tale. (It has been a while since I read it, so others may have a better description. I found it fairly boring and not particularly believable, so I didn't make a big point of remembering.) Don't look for any archaeological evidence that might support the Book of Mormon -- as near as I can tell, there isn't any and the Mormons are not out looking for any evidence themselves.
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you forgot to mention the secret decoder glasses needed to read the book of Mormon (the original, on gold plates), they are called the Urrim and Thurrim, iirc.
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 1:06:13 PM EDT
Knowing them and working with them (in numbers) are two different things. I have over two years of "interesting" things I've seen them do. It's too easy now for me to bash...so I won't. You'll just have to see for yourself.
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 1:06:14 PM EDT
OH... Utah. Mormons. I thought you were referring to "Morons". Since the topic is Mormons and not Morons...well... then, I have no comments. Lawdog
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 1:08:29 PM EDT
Sounds like a cult, because it is a cult, albeit an interesting one.
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 1:10:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SPECTRE: Whats the deal with Catholics, why do people think they're wacko ?? Whats the deal with Jews, why do people think they're wacko ?? Whats the deal with Methodists, why do people think they're wacko ?? Whats the deal with Muslims, why do people think they're wacko ?? Whats the deal with Church of Christ, why do people think they're wacko ?? Whats the deal with Russian Orthodox , why do people think they're wacko ?? Whats the deal with Baptists, why do people think they're wacko ?? etc...etc...
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Ex-saggly. Btw, you've left out the Presbyterians, the Reformed Methodists, the Jews for Jesus, and the Justified and Ancient Shaking Baptists of Mu. Then again, you _did_ close with etc etc ....
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 1:11:22 PM EDT
Spectre, Babtists aren't wacko....we're just drunk! Now Pentacostal Holiness /Charismatics poison drinking rattle snake dance'n practitioner's are wacko! -HS _IBTL
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 1:12:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AeroE: Sounds like a cult, because it is a cult, albeit an interesting one.
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Define a "cult" and do you consider all other organized religions to be "cults" ??
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 1:22:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2003 1:30:08 PM EDT by Zaphod]
The following link contains programs presented by Dr. D. James Kennedy. If you search for "Mormonism", you will find four programs, at least three of which are presented by a former Mormon. If you search for "Joseph Smith", you will find at least two programs titled "The Gospel According to Joseph Smith". Each program runs about 30 min and they are actually quite good. After hearing these discussions, I'm afraid I have to conclude that Mormonism is, in fact, a cult, albeit one that does some pretty good things in society. Frankly, I could probably live next door to one, but no way would I let myself get pulled into their circle in a religious sense. Decide for yourself... [url=http://www.truthsthattransform.org/BroadcastArchives.asp#436]Coral Ridge Ministries Audio Archive[/url] Heavily edited because the flippin' links wouldn't work!
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 1:25:45 PM EDT
Of course how "weird" they may seem to you depends upon how you view spiritual matters. If you ask them what they believe don't expect them to tell you everything. Outsiders don't get much detail. For example, the average Mormon missionary knocking on your door probably won't tell you that in the next life good Mormon men get to be gods over their own earths. Within the temple there is a lot of secrecy and Joseph Smith incorporated a lot of Masonic ritual & symbolism into the church. A book that covers some of these topics is "The God Makers" by Ed Decker & Dave Hunt. They also have a website [url]www.saintsalive.com[/url] Note: I'm just making more information available for you to evaluate and come to your own conclusions. Under the First Amendment they have as much right to believe what they choose as I do. I also believe that each individual has a responsibility to critically examine his own beliefs for validity & adjust as necessary. That is all.
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 1:26:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 1:28:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Originally Posted By AeroE: Sounds like a cult, because it is a cult, albeit an interesting one.
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Define a "cult" and do you consider all other organized religions to be "cults" ??
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I do.
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 1:30:01 PM EDT
You might be surprised how many members of the Mormon faith there are. Some are definitely "wackos", but some are the finest people that you will ever meet. Kind of like every other religion. I love the self proclaimed "experts" posting here that know little or nothing about the religion, but are quick to pronounce their misinformed judgement. BYU: Great post. Going straight to the source is the best way to gain knowledge. Spectre: Down boy! [stick] Remember, [i]illigitimi non-carborundum[/i]* *secret Mormon code. [;)] Bud, aka "you would never guess that he is one of those wacko cultist Mormons, but then again you might."
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 1:32:46 PM EDT
It depends on which definition of cult you want - - the definition that implies [u]all[/u] organized religions are cults, or - or religions that are considered to be at least unorthodox, or - A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader. or - Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing. The third definition is where most Protestants of whatever stripe put the LDS. Right or wrong that is their [u]perception[/u] based on observation of the practices they have observed. I have no idea how Catholics view the LDS, and don't care what Islam thinks about it.
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 1:34:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By norman74:
Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Originally Posted By AeroE: Sounds like a cult, because it is a cult, albeit an interesting one.
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Define a "cult" and do you consider all other organized religions to be "cults" ??
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I do.
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Uh-huh. You're young and foolish. That will change in time...
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 1:35:51 PM EDT
Here is a link to the The Church of Jesus Chris of Latter-day Saints' website that is geared towards those who are curious about the LDS Church: [url]http://www.mormon.org/[/url] Like I said, if you want to know about something/someone, go to the source. If you would like other peoples opinions, both good & bad, then ask them. If you want someone to tell you how bad something is, then ask those who actively engage in slandering & spinning the reputation & beliefs of the something/someone in question. The two sources cited above this response are prime examples of those who want to defame, belittle, and cast in a poor light both the LDS chruch and those that follow in that faith. Esentially, people like this want you to teach you a conclusion about the LDS church & its followers before you even investigate it yourself. Almost like someone telling you that to find out about gun ownership, a great place to find out all the facts would be the Violence Policy Center or the Brady Campaign, etc...
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 1:36:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2003 1:42:44 PM EDT by Zaphod]
I think you will find most informed Christians will consider the LDS as a [s]cult[/s] bit strange because, according to their doctrine, any man can rise to become the god of another world. Sounds weird, but there it is. Learned it through the links I mentioned above, which are of a source I find to be pretty reliable (and I'm NOT Presbeterian, BTW). Edited to add: That does not take away that, as a whole, followers of the LDS are upstanding citizens who are VERY generous when giving to charity and who at least try to live wholesome lives. I'd rather live in Salt Lake City than, say, Berkely or San Francisco. ANY DAY OF THE WEEK. Edited (again) to (further) add: You know, the word "cult" really is a bit too strong a word. I certainly don't want anyone to think I put these good people in the same category as the Branch Davidians or anything. Hell, on balance we agree on an overwhelming majority of social issues...
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 1:39:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Zaphod:
Originally Posted By norman74:
Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Originally Posted By AeroE: Sounds like a cult, because it is a cult, albeit an interesting one.
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Define a "cult" and do you consider all other organized religions to be "cults" ??
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I do.
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Don't start with me Zaphod! otherwise I'll n Uh-huh. You're young and foolish. That will change in time...
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Don't start with me Zaphod! [:P]Otherwise I'll quit trying to drag you to IDPA!!!
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 1:42:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2003 1:46:09 PM EDT by kay9]
Ask the Mormons about their secret underwear. Polygamy? Business interests?
cult ( P ) Pronunciation Key (klt) n. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader. The followers of such a religion or sect. A system or community of religious worship and ritual. The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual. A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease. Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing. The object of such devotion. An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2003 1:43:30 PM EDT
Define a "cult"
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Any religion but mine. The common use of the word came after Ambrose Bierce's time, or he would have included it in the Devil's Dictionary. It is related to the definition for "egotist". "egotist" - a person of low taste, more interested in himself than in me.
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 1:44:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By norman74: Don't start with me Zaphod! [:P]Otherwise I'll quit trying to drag you to IDPA!!!
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Ahhh....Your mother wears army boots! [nana] [;)]
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 1:46:27 PM EDT
MarineGrunt, I just moved to Utah in January after PCSing to Hill AFB. Here is my take. Naturally, being Utah, there is a large Mormon\LDS influence in the area. The ones that I have met seem to be alright. Reps from the local church/ward were the first to welcome me to the neighborhood. They gave me a welcome packet, that seemed relatively non-denominational except for the church pamphlet. Mostly it was info on the local area. They asked about religion, I told them that I was Baptist and was perfectly satisfied in my faith. They dropped the subject and we talked about other things. I think one of my neighbors are probably LDS, they never said it, but they do have 5 kids. They welcomed us to the neighborhood and introduced themselves. Nice people, never bother us. Wave hello sometimes. 3 of the 8 people in my shop are LDS, one with a large family. None of them have raised the subject with me either way. So, to tell the truth, it seems to be live and let live on my side all the way around. I don't feel ostracized or threatened in any way. Let me know if you have any quetions about anything else. Chris
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 1:52:31 PM EDT
Couple of interesting things I learned about the Mormons; They are (or at least were at one time in the last 10 years or so) the fastest growing religion in the world. They were the first and only religion to ever be allowed to send missionaries into the USSR. I could be wrong on these two counts, if I am someone feel free to correct me.
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 1:52:35 PM EDT
One of my best friends is a Mormon and neither of us pull any punches about our respective religions (I am a Christian...he thinks he is to...He thinks I belong to an apostisized church and I think he belongs to a cult). This has led to some pretty animated discussions during our friendship...but our common interests in shooting game and bashing socialists always seems to sooth ruffled feathers. Although they may seem to present a rather conformist "front", they are individuals with individual views just like everybody else. That is, there are Mormons who are great people (the majority, IMO) and there are Mormons who are assholes (minority, IMO). Just like many/most other groups, really. Insofar as the Book of Mormon is concerned, I think it's pretty boring. Their "Doctrine & Covenants" (another component of their "Scripture" along with the BoM, KJV Bible, and Pearl of Great Price) is more interesting, I think, because it shows more of the "distinctive" LDS beliefs. I think you would do well not to stereotype Mormons; take 'em on a one-by-one basis pretty much like everybody else. People get pretty uptight about their missionaries sometimes. I've found these young folks are typically just very polite kids who've been told by their elders that they got some special authority/mojo. They are usually not theological heavyweights; I always treat 'em nice keeping in mind that they are usually a long way from home. You may find, as I did, that some truly "get" the RKBA and that is always way-cool. YMMV, Kevin
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 1:57:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dredd308: IBTL [bounce]
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What does IBTL stand for?
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 2:00:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Richardson:
Originally Posted By Dredd308: IBTL [bounce]
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What does IBTL stand for?
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Secret Mormon code meaning: [b]I[/b]n [b]B[/b]efore [b]T[/b]he [b]L[/b]ock
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 2:01:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 2:04:39 PM EDT
The advocate being well prepared, i.e., a years worth of food on hand and being well armed. What's not to like.
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 2:05:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By norman74: Couple of interesting things I learned about the Mormons; They are (or at least were at one time in the last 10 years or so) the fastest growing religion in the world.
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Because they produce more kids than rabbits. Their general belief is that all women of child-bearing age should be pregnant all the time. Just walking around malls in Phoenix, it wasn't unusual to see obviously Mormon families with eight kids strung out behind Dad and Mom. I don't know what their kid per family average is, but I would bet it is way higher than the national average, and probably higher than for most other common cultures in the US.
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 2:08:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 2:13:13 PM EDT
Moved to Utah about two years ago. Never knew much about the Mormon faith-- I expected to see them driving around in covered wagons-- just kidding. At first I didn't really notice anything different. Except for down town, Salt Lake looks about like any other city. But as soon as I started hitting the bars, this Mormon shit got old fast. Salt Lake has some really stupid laws regarding bar life. All bars are "Clubs" meaning you have to pay a fee to be a member of find a member who will sponsor you. Pure greed. As far as what Mormons are like, they (most) do have this arrogant way about them. Most are very naïve, humorous and live very uninteresting lives.
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 2:14:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By wolfman97:
Originally Posted By norman74: Couple of interesting things I learned about the Mormons; They are (or at least were at one time in the last 10 years or so) the fastest growing religion in the world.
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Because they produce more kids than rabbits. [b]Their general belief is that all women of child-bearing age should be pregnant all the time. [/b]Just walking around malls in Phoenix, it wasn't unusual to see obviously Mormon families with eight kids strung out behind Dad and Mom. I don't know what their kid per family average is, but I would bet it is way higher than the national average, and probably higher than for most other common cultures in the US.
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The LDS Church also has rougly 61,000 full-time missionaries serving throughout the world. The number of converts baptized for the year ended 12/31/02: 283,138 The increase in the number of children of record (born into the Church) for the year ended 12/31/02: 81,132
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 2:17:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 2:18:42 PM EDT
I live in Utah so I kinda have a perspective on this topic. There are ALOT of non-mormons in this state, including myself. Most of them are pretty decent people, if they aren't the hypocritical type. There are also that type around too....just figure that your gonna judge em individually, not in a group.
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 2:21:01 PM EDT
There are some good, common sense observations here. There are some good, common sense statements here. And then there is some total crap. Sad really. As has been said, if you want to know about Mormons/LDS church members, then observe the ones you know and ask THEM. DO NOT ask people who have a beef with Mormons because they had a bad experience with some (they are HUMAN you know) or people who belong to religions who like to persecute the LDS church. That would be like me asking Diane Feinstein or Sarah Brady "what's the deal with assault weapons?" If you want to know what the deal is with assault weapons, handle them yourself, and talk to experts. Likewise with ANY religion or ANY SUBJECT for that matter. And yeah, there are a LOT of members of the LDS church who hang here and probably think A LOT like you do -- so take it easy on the BS here... Oh yeah, and what's the deal with ARFCOM'ers?
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